10-10-2004 05:38									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You can put it on the table as far as I'm concerned, just to make them salivate a bit.

	10-10-2004 05:42									#32
	Tired of ads?

Did I post the results in the wrong thread?
Or are we carrying on a conversation in several different ones...?


I think I better re-read a few posts...

	10-10-2004 05:47									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

I can put both a Treaty and Gene Splicing on the table under "negotiating"

Note that Yang has 295 ec's and has the wealth lead, so Morgan must, by definition, have less than that.

It'd be nice to have an agreed trade that would net us 200 or so ec's next turn, but I guess we can wait

Any chance of sounding them out on what they are resarching or might be interested in - you can hint that we have a fairly convenient and compliant "supplier" and leave them to draw their own conclusions about whether we're talking techsteal or purchase from another faction

(I know it's difficult when we seem to be the only people constantly checking the Embassy boards - for both factions we've met)

	10-10-2004 05:51									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader I come to a cost of 53 leaving us 94 in reserve ****************************************** Did I post the results in the wrong thread? Or are we carrying on a conversation in several different ones...?

Sorry - thanks KK (Maniac in fact posted the costs in the 2141 turn discussion thread, so I used his numbers for the presend.

We just rushed the probe at OA (8) and the Impact Infantryman at SC2 (13) We decided that with the other tinkerings we could leave the FB rush till next turn

	10-10-2004 06:04									#35
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Great post, Kassi, in the Embassy.

They'll have to assume that it's the Uni (cos they'd see last turn in the open diplo window that we had their commlink)

If that doesn't get them salivating, nothing will.

But on a more serious note, do we think that we should enter into a tech-trading/leapfrogging Pact of Convenience with Morgan, for, say 20 or 30 turns so that we both keep up/get ahead of what seems to be a mature Angels/Gaians axis?

It's be nice to get Fusion power, Aircraft, photon shield defenses and plasma shard before we part company with them (except they'll have those too )

But more rto the point, if in this type of a relationship we could subjugate the Uni and PK's, at least while leaving the Gaians/Angels axis to battle the Hive, IMO it'd be worth it

	10-10-2004 07:54									#36
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I got just that in New Eden II, from Mongoose - a tech every ten years (he could afford to, as we three other human players in that game waited far too long before tacking him, by which time he had tachyon defenses and Quantum power while we were still fusion)

(Wow. Sounds like a bad position. He's a tough player to bring down. Won't be easy for the rest of you, it seems. Good luck.)

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Sorry - thanks KK (Maniac in fact posted the costs in the 2141 turn discussion thread, so I used his numbers for the presend. We just rushed the probe at OA (8) and the Impact Infantryman at SC2 (13) We decided that with the other tinkerings we could leave the FB rush till next turn

Oh okay. I'll be at that thread soon. (I'm getting there. Working my way up still.)

	10-10-2004 08:02									#37
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Googlie But on a more serious note, do we think that we should enter into a tech-trading/leapfrogging Pact of Convenience with Morgan, for, say 20 or 30 turns so that we both keep up/get ahead of what seems to be a mature Angels/Gaians axis?

I'd rather see if we can deal with the bungling buearocratic Gaians.

Better to face them later on, than an organized Morganite team.

After schtomping Zakharov, he'll provide us with reasearch (remember).

Then we grab some nice Hive real-eastate.

All the while - we are dealing/scheming/scamming whoever up into the technology tree.

Then we turn on the bloated/decadent Morganites.

Then we zing the Angels.

That will leave the tree-loving, worm-kissing Gaians for the final show down.

Or somethin' like thats...

	10-10-2004 08:46									#38
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader (Wow. Sounds like a bad position. He's a tough player to bring down. Won't be easy for the rest of you, it seems. Good luck.)

Aw - he won that game easily. he had several 25 - 30 pops bases before any of the rest of us got to Hab Domes

I was his pactmate for almost 200 years, but eventually joined in the allcomers war agaisnt him (which cost me a handholding transcendence, as co-op was activated) - but there were no tounnament points at stake or anything like that.

We started New Eden III with the same participants, but I gave up my position to Archaic on a permanent basis when I left for my 5-week trip to the old country sans laptop (we were clocking about 2 turns every 3 days, so it wasn't fair to the others to have them wait for my return

	10-10-2004 23:52									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

From the response in the other forum, I see the Morganites are really quick to jump on new business opportunities.

:sarcasm:

	11-10-2004 00:04									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well they prolly don't have anything like 250 ec's in hand, (and they know that we don't have Ind Auto) so are prolly in a quandary whether to suggest a n Ind Auto trade for Gene Splicing (or whether to keep us crawlerless for a few more turns)

They know we've met the Gaians, 'cos they can see that their commlink doesn't show as a trade item for us when they try the "offer all techs" trick to us, so must believe that we're dickering with the Gaians for Ind Auto

I expect that we'll see a flurry of posts from them in the Embassy when the turn reaches them

One I expect will be to take GS off the table so that they can accept a treaty with us (and are prolly calculating how much of their "profit" to share - if i were playing, I'd offer 1/3rd, so that the third 1/3rd would represent their faction 'bonus")

	11-10-2004 02:39									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow things are really moving along. I don't have time to read this thread. But just thought that I'd pass one thing that I picked up from reading various threads.

It appears that Googlie has left a dip window open with the Morgans when you were doing your covert operation the turn before you actually made contact. Just would like to let you know this so that you could be more cautious in the future.

I am aware that this maybe related to a bug in the game too. I'm never really sure about it.

	11-10-2004 02:43									#42
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The diplo window is old news, Method already dealt with it

	11-10-2004 02:50									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Snowflake It appears that Googlie has left a dip window open with the Morgans when you were doing your covert operation the turn before you actually made contact.

Yup - When you go to the Morgan-Sparta Embassy you'll see me 'fessing up to that gaffe in a reply to AndiD

	11-10-2004 03:12									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Kass:

You'll see from the Sparta-Angels thread that yand prolly won't sell us the commlink now.

As a matter of principle now I'd hate to give the Gaians 25 ec's for the Angels' commlink.

So how about asking the Morganites if they have it and if so we'd be willing to pay 25 ec's for it. If they don't already have it they'll think it a neat manouever to get the cash from us and pass it on to the Gaians and they, too, get the commlink free. If they indeed are getting it offerred this turn from the Gaians (as we suspect) then they'll either accept but give some excuse for delaying the actual transfer (if it is a trade pending for 1 turn - ie, not "pre-accepted") or likewise will be delighted to pass it on to us for the 25 ec'sa that they (presumably) paid to the Gaians.

The Gaians get their 25 ec's in any event (but not 50, as would happen if they simply sold to both of us) and Morgan gets it free, which will tickle them pink.

But we'll send a stern message to the Gaians that we do have other sources of supply

Junta's thoughts?

	11-10-2004 03:15									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have to agree, in the current situation, buying it from the Gaians is a no-go. I'd rather have the Morganites do some petty entrepreneuring with the situation.

	11-10-2004 03:27									#46
	Got spare money?

If they can get it, and package the commlink, some ec's (but at least 100) and one of the early level-1 techs, would that be worth Gene Splicing?

(we prolly stand a good chance of stealing ethcalc from Zak in a proberaid anyway, so 100 in our jeans plus ethcalc is the same either way, whether 200 plus a purchase or 100 plus a steal)

	11-10-2004 03:29									#47
	Got spare money?

What level 1 techs are we missing anyway? BioGen? Wouldn't we manage without it?

	11-10-2004 03:44									#48
	Got spare money?

Biogenetics, Social Psych and Progenitor Psych

And yes, we don't need biogen now that we have Gene Splicing (so long as we can get trance from Zak)

Social Psych might be more valuable, as it leads to Doc Loyalty (whichj i doubt now that yang will sell to us) and on to Int Int and the CDF. For our purposes it's prolly the most valuable of the level1 techs that we lack

Prog Psych is one of these (to us) techs that only serves as a blocker to getting other techs (if unresearched or unaquired it'll often become that 'rogue tech" that blocks the tech we really want

	11-10-2004 09:00									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia The diplo window is old news, Method already dealt with it

Ok. Sorry. Things are happening so fast that I can hardly catch up.

	11-10-2004 09:32									#50
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hmm - interesting offer on the table from Morgan's Chief Diplomatic Officer (CDO), Mead.

I see them (in point # 1) agreeing to share 1/2 the excess income gained thru a Treaty or Pact

They'd like to "place an observer" aboard SCC Hunter and get screenies of what it explores (their point # 2)

The first is good, the second should cost them some skin (maybe we agree to that in exchange for them getting the Angels commlink however they deem possible (from Yang or from the Gaians) and giving it to us for free - ie information exchange - commlink for exploration data)

Kass - up to composing a reply to say that we like their initative and the Junta are presently considering it, and maybe ask them if they have, or intend getting, the Angels' commlink from The Gaians or the Chairman?

	11-10-2004 10:04									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I just saw it.
It's about time they posted something.
We need something for proposal #2, like Googlie says.

-----------------------------------------------

Otherwise...

This piqued my interest:

We have strong indications that the Gaians and Data Angels have, indeed, joined forces. Every year that went by without us meeting you was another year where they left Sparta and Morgan further behind.


It looks like (seems to me) that they are somewhat concerned about the closeness of the Gaian/Angel relationship (?).
Even mentioned that they were waiting/trying to for us to get into contact with them.


I dunno why. But I have the feeling that they are sincere about this. That this is not a form of deception.
If it is, then they would have fooled me (and I am quite "mefiant').

	11-10-2004 10:11									#52
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I have posted the following in the Embassy:

quote: Posted by Googlie in the Morgan-Sparta Embassy While Major Kassiopeia, the Commanding Officer of our Diplomatic Corps, will reply more fully, after the junta has conferred, I can confirm one of the inferences you made: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suspect that amoung the two teams someone knows how to post partial screenshots. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If agreement is made to host a Morgan observer aboard the SCC Hunter, we have the technology to assemble partial screenshots of its voyage of exploration (and can also post such screenshots here in our Embassy) Major Googlie

	11-10-2004 10:19									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader IIt looks like (seems to me) that they are somewhat concerned about the closeness of the Gaian/Angel relationship (?). Even mentioned that they were waiting/trying to for us to get into contact with them.

It's maybe time for a full Junta meeting to thrash out our strategy in more depth

Till now it's been (or at least my understanding of it is):

• stay friendly but cool for the time being with all 3 human factions
  
• make the Uni our submissive research engine, and so be it if this leads to:
  
• Eliminate the PK's, capturing and assimilating their bases
  
• Ally with the Gaians to remove Yang as a threat
  
• Take out Morgan, with or without the Gaians help
  
• now so strong as to be invincible, turn our attention to the Angels, and subjugate them
  
• break with the Gaians, subjugate them, and declare ourselves El Supremo

	11-10-2004 17:21									#54
	Remove this text

The Morganites don't seem to have an intention to pay anything for the SCC Hunter map explorations. Instead they see half of the extra treaty commerce income as the payment. As predicted, they're trying to argue the commerce is part of their factional advantage, and thus they shouldn't really have to pay extra for a treaty.

To that we could of course reply that there is no special need for us at all to have a treaty - we could live without. So they need us to enable their special advantage, and therefore we would like to have half of the profit. SCC Hunter explorations would therefore not be automatically included in the treaty deal, though we would of course be willing to make a seperate deal about that.

Something like that?

	11-10-2004 17:50									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OOPS (dereliction of Duty). See here as well

Attachment: oops.jpg
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	11-10-2004 18:03									#56
	Got spare money?

This puts a different spin on things - we can't get the Angels vis Morgan buying it from the Giains, as they haven't yet met

And a big OOPS on my part. For 2 reasons

1), this never showed up on my "AAARRRGGGHHH" mistake (and we had offered a treaty to the Gaians at that time), and

2) this turn, there were items offered by us in both diplo boxes so i never activated the "offer all techs" button for either

As we had assumed that Morgan and the Gaians had already met, what is our position on offering Gaia the commlink in a straight swap for the Angels? (we're no worse off than we thought we were)

(And it proves my theory that the Gaians didn't buy/trade for Ind Auto from Morgan)

	11-10-2004 18:34									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Weird. I seem to remember having seen previous turn that the Gaians already had the Morganite commlink.

So this would mean we're the only human faction the Morganites have met?

We could of course try to exploit this monopoly on tech trades for as long as possible.

On the other side, who knows they're busy building an exploration fleet to meet the other factions as we speak.

On the other-other side , that assumes they have bases on the south or west cost of their continent. If not, it could take a looooong time before any of their ships meet another faction.

In any case, IMO we should try to sell them gene splicing before giving them the Gaian commlink!

	11-10-2004 18:45									#58
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I've made my major comments in the Gaian-Sparta thread, but I agree, it prolly means that Morgan has only met the Hive until we came calling.

It's no wonder they're paranoid!!

(And as they just got Flex a turn ago, it's also not surprising that they want to piggy-back their exploration on our ships)

This whole commlink exchange is something we have to discuss carefully before committing, as it holds enormous potential (given that the Angels and the gaians don't yet have Doc Flex, and are restricted to overland movement - ie, to the Hive)

	11-10-2004 21:16									#59
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Maniac The Morganites don't seem to have an intention to pay anything for the SCC Hunter map explorations. Instead they see half of the extra treaty commerce income as the payment. As predicted, they're trying to argue the commerce is part of their factional advantage, and thus they shouldn't really have to pay extra for a treaty

What meeting room am I reading? Either I've gotten a severe case of dyslexia, have misunderstood something, or failed to notice something, the Morganites are proposing that we get half of the extra trade, as IIRC was the intention, and they just want the maps. I don't see them offering *anything* in return for the maps. Nor am I reading anywhere that they're specifically touting it as a factional advantage per se. Of course, Mead's post is downright illegible since he messed up his quotations.

I just feel very at the moment.

The fact that the Morganites haven't met the Gaians yet puts us into a VERY VERY strong position. What's more, they seem to be incredibly paranoid as to the Dataangel/Gaian axis. Probably just to appeal to us to make us join forces with them more readily?

	12-10-2004 02:52									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well now I'm confused (Don't tell me I have to re-read all the posts of the last week again?).

I was never under the impression that the Morganites and Gaians had met. And, it was clear to me that we are the first to have met them. I was sure the rest of you saw things the same way. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Any ways... I'll go and start reviewing everything (again...).