15-10-2004 06:43									#121
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Hmm, so this raises some questions:

1) Should we provide them a "shopping catalogue" of techs we could 'acquire' and offer to them (with price tags attached) as they have requested? What would the secrecy hit be?

2) What's the "pain limit" (lowest amount of credits we must receive) for Gene Splicing - they may not really need or want it, so they might not be even willing to buy it at all.

	15-10-2004 07:03									#122
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Ooooohh - I love it when we're counterbluffed

quote: Posted by Mead in the Embassy Although I am not an expert, I know that if is not the tech that we need right now, then having it will slow down our overall tech rate. Because of this, Gene Splicing might not be worth that much to us right now

Gene Splicing = Research Hospitals

• Reduces # drones in Base by 1
  
• Increases Psych at base by 25%
  
• Increases research at base by 25%

Gene Splicing = Nut restrictions lifted
Allows faster growth in all bases where there are +3 nut tiles to be worked

And they're not interested?

Let's just yawn and say "Uh - Okay, we won't mention it again until you're ready. Let us know"

	15-10-2004 07:07									#123
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Since it doesn't appear to be urgent, I'll just go to bed so that I'll have fresh eyes and fingers to compose a feisty reply tomorrow.

I suppose Mead may not honestly know the significance of the technology, like I myself am not too aware of the things we are trading (been a while since I actually played). Unless he's a real SMAC shark, which then is something I can't be expected to know, having been "out of the circuit" for quite a while.

	15-10-2004 07:12									#124
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I suggest we say something along the lines of:

*************************************************

"It is not our policy to trade military technologies, but there are a few technologies we have - or can acquire - that facilitate growth and infrastructure.

Among these would be:

Ethical Calculus
Gene Splicing
and, shortly,
Ecological Engineering

(But we will be in a better position to broker deals in 2143 when our infiltration is completed)

And as we seem to be some distance apart as to the value we place on Gene Splicing, perhaps it would be preferable for you to indicate to us a price that you would be prepared to pay and we can then determine if it is worth the cost to us

*************************************************

(of course we mean of the Uni, but they are so paranoid over at Morgan, I bet, that they'll assume the worst - that we've completed infiltration in every faction - that they'll prolly outright ask us if we have infiltrated Morgan.

Just mess with their minds ...........................

	15-10-2004 07:14									#125
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It also is required for Bio-Engineering, Synthetic Fossil Fuels, and Ecological Engineering. It's a significant stepping stone.

It's a biggie for any real kind of builder strategy, which I would strongly suspect that the Morgan team are following. Else they'll be toast by the middle game.

	15-10-2004 07:20									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Let's just yawn and say "Uh - Okay, we won't mention it again until you're ready. Let us know"

I would add:

"Give us a call when you figure it's worth something..."


Then when they jump at Mead's throat - we extract something really big. Like: ask them to be the junior partner in our plot of world domination, or somethin equivilant.

	15-10-2004 07:26									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I suggest we say something along the lines of: ************************************************* "It is not our policy to trade military technologies, but there are a few technologies we have - or can acquire - that facilitate growth and infrastructure. Among these would be: Ethical Calculus Gene Splicing and, shortly, Ecological Engineering (But we will be in a better position to broker deals in 2143 when our infiltration is completed) And as we seem to be some distance apart as to the value we place on Gene Splicing, perhaps it would be preferable for you to indicate to us a price that you would be prepared to pay and we can then determine if it is worth the cost to us ************************************************* (of course we mean of the Uni, but they are so paranoid over at Morgan, I bet, that they'll assume the worst - that we've completed infiltration in every faction - that they'll prolly outright ask us if we have infiltrated Morgan. Just mess with their minds ...........................

Well you took the idea right out of my head and typed it out faster than I ever could. Only thing, I would have said "resource lifting techmologies" , and "DEMOCRATIC choice", instead of actually listing them individually.

	15-10-2004 09:49									#128
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Scc Hunter moved as per instructions, but encountered islands and fungus.

Morgan Observer saw this:

Attachment: 2142-captainslog.jpg
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	15-10-2004 09:58									#129
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I guess the Morgan observer will now know that, there aren't any bonus tiles in the sea for that other base of his. He can switch producion from his sea former to something else...

	15-10-2004 11:37									#130
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quote: Mead: There are those within the Corporation that feel that we are sharing too much, considering the hurdles we have to overcome in order to get that bonus. There are others that feel that we should be given operational control of the ship (direct where it goes) instead of just being an observer.

We could ask them if any of those members have actually realized that there is a Spartan military vessel patrolling their coastline I don't think we should, but let's not buy into their rhetoric...

As for the price list. I would drop the "and shortly" before EcoEng, and I would also drop Gene Splicing from that list entirely. They blew the negotiations on that. If they wish to bring it up again (I guess they will) they should feel the diplomatic impact. Also, add a couple of powerful techs we don't have access to, and if they attempt to trade for those, we just make sure the negotiations fail

	15-10-2004 11:41									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Also, add a couple of powerful techs we don't have access to, and if they attempt to trade for those, we just make sure the negotiations fail

(like Synthetic Fossils and maybe Planetary economics???)

again

	15-10-2004 17:31									#132
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I like Snoddasmannen's idea. A lot

	15-10-2004 18:50									#133
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Planetary economics? Doesn't that give a +1 trade bonus? They might insist on their trade compensation money back :P

Maybe bluffing here isn't such a hot idea, it would be embarrassing if they got the techs before us and we had to trade for it from them On the other hand, we have plausible deniability since we only claimed to have access to the techs.

I think we should do it, just for the hell of it Synthetic Fossil Fuels looks good, not sure about PlanEco cos of the trade bonus, how about Neural Grafting?

	15-10-2004 19:10									#134
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OTOH we mustn't put them on their toes too much, so that our inevitable bleeding skirmish against them to keep them from getting out of control will be a complete surprise to them and their troops.

	15-10-2004 19:11									#135
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Not a bad idea (Zak might already have NG for all we know - he has Secrets, and Gene Splicing, its 2 prereqs) - and we can Secrets to the list as well, now that we have it

	15-10-2004 22:09									#136
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This is SMAX. Planetary Economics requires that one does some research along the Progenitor line. Not something one normally does in early MP games.

	15-10-2004 22:43									#137
	Put an end to popups!

agreed, but we could have pilfered it from "our friendly supplier"

(But I bet Morgan are barrelling down that route - the PEG is huge for them. And it leads to Planetary Economics and the Asctic Virtues SP, again huge for Morgan in PBEMs that rarely get to habitation Domes)

	15-10-2004 23:06									#138
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Could be, but that's a tough choice to make. It takes you away from the race towards aircraft, resource restriction lifting, clean units etc.

then again, if they are going that way. They may feel extra paranoide if the rest of us go the other way...

I'll have to think about a plot of intrigue here...

	16-10-2004 03:57									#139
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Hmm, so what realistic techs or techs we have do we want to list, and what techs do we want to lie that we have for the list?

	16-10-2004 04:16									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Hmm, so what realistic techs or techs we have do we want to list, and what techs do we want to lie that we have for the list?

How about HEC? It's realistic, but it would also greatly alarm them because it would suggest that we are only turns away from syth fossil fuels (because they know we have GS already.) And then it's just 1 more tech to D:AP! That'll get them thinking. Although, if the Angels already have HEC, then they could potentially rat us out. I almost feel like our shopping list is impressive enough as it is. Perhaps we should just be truthful about it?

	16-10-2004 04:21									#141
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Googlie produced a good-looking list in the Covert Ops thread:

• Applied Physics
  
• Secrets of the Human Brain
  
• Nonlinear Mathematics*
  
• Ethical Calculus*
  
• Gene Splicing

	16-10-2004 04:41									#142
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We couild always wait till next turn, then add all Zak's techs (and Yang's) to the list

Techs-R-us, get what you need from your friendly Spartan gunrunner

	16-10-2004 04:45									#143
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Or we could edit out from the current post the techs under embargo, then add the new techs and the embargo'd techs - maybe say "the Junta had to do extra deliberations whether or not we should also open up these for trade and/or whether we should inform you of the existence of techs we can not trade to you just yet"

	16-10-2004 04:46									#144
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Or we could have ALL the new techs, from Yang and Zak, as embargo'd too, in that new later addition, but add "but the embargo on these particular techs (the ones we want to trade right away) will be out of force the next turn" or something similar to cover up a bit

	16-10-2004 04:47									#145
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So that now there's

quote: - Applied Physics - Secrets of the Human Brain And of course there's the already-mentioned Gene Splicing - you can come back to us when you need it.

And then we'd add all of our "embargo'd" techs, with the new techs from Yang/Zak that we want to trade to them having their "embargo" be removed within a turn or two.

EDIT: A third person is viewing the forum, hope it's a Spartan?

	16-10-2004 04:49									#146
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Oh turd, it's Mead. I wonder if he managed to spot the stuff I edited out. Might have to do some extra spinning with the next tech list

	16-10-2004 04:53									#147
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And it begs a question:

should we try to get Biogenetics and Social Psych from Morgan (and Progenitor Psych from the Gaians) before we try to steal from Zak, so that our (perhaps) only chance to steal from him results in something good?

	16-10-2004 04:54									#148
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Just add it as an addendum - "it occurs to us that if our covert operations agents are successful in their current efforts the following techs might also be shortly available:

list
list
etc

	16-10-2004 04:54									#149
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From a strategic point of view, it'd certainly be a good idea. I'd really hate to have us steal Progenitor Psych from them after all that work.

	16-10-2004 04:58									#150
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HEC and OC - do we want to "embargo" either of them? I also worded it so that the source can be anything from a trade to a probe.