09-10-2004 04:59									#211
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I've tried to bring this up in the past. But when it comes down to Native Americans I get yelled at.

Language is not an important part of culture, IMO. The US has many cultures and many languages, but that of buisness is English... So? I still see and participate in many cultural events that aren't "white". The only real "white" events I participate in are those associated with Christiantiy (are those even white?) and I do so for the sake of wifey... oh, and the occasional klan meeting

I've been to quinceaneras, bat mitzvahs, mexian/catholic weddings, buddist ceremonies, japanese and chinese new years,.... you name it, I;ve probably been to one.

American culture is the culture of the world with discrimination.

	09-10-2004 05:20									#212
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Of all things, the one I really can't understand people wanting to preserve are languages. Why the hell do you want barriers to communication?

	09-10-2004 05:22									#213
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It is part of their identity. Besides, languages are richness. The more you can speak, the more you can communicate. They sound different and sound nice. They're just different protocols, but more important.

	09-10-2004 06:35									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I don't think there is any translation for the German word "gemühtlich" for example (something like a comfortable feeling of being at home).

Coziness?

But, yeah, your points are very good.

	09-10-2004 08:13									#215
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quote: Good. These movies are usually very difficult to see outside of independant cinemas in large urban areas. To my knowledge, and that's probably the same in America, there are in Quebec 4 independant theaters for a population of 7,5 millions, while crap like Star Wars can be seen in over 200 theaters.

However, here in Knoxville there are three independent theaters (12 screens in total) in a city of 300,000 (and yes, they show French (Ameile, Chocolat) and Russian (the original Solaris screened about a year ago, Eisenstein is a campus regular) films (don't know about the Finnish)). The problem lies not with the US but with Quebec, Boris. Ask them why they don't want to see smaller pictures.

	09-10-2004 08:17									#216
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Alot of small cities have independent theaters as well. I've never been well because I only go to the movies for dates. I'll go with something mainstream for that ya know an action movie or a tom green flick. It shows I have class.

	09-10-2004 08:22									#217
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American culture, for better or worse, really can have an enormous influence abroad. Spend about two hours in Shanghai and you will have all the proof you need.

Latest American cultural import: a HOOTERS is opening in Shanghai! Yes, you read that right.

Next I expect to see Bigfoot-type 4x4 competitions held at Shanghai Grand Theater!

	09-10-2004 08:25									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Of all things, the one I really can't understand people wanting to preserve are languages. Why the hell do you want barriers to communication?

From this I'm guessing you must speak only one language, or you would be more aware of the links between culture, thinking, and language.

	09-10-2004 08:25									#219
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Let's have a little bit of perspective. A Hooters restaurant isn't going to make the Chinese any less Chinese.

They'll have Chinese Hooters Girls after all.

	09-10-2004 08:30									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Toronto's film industry is pretty much Americanized anyway, but truly Canadian productions face the same problems that others do. The American public is one of the most close-minded in the world (last time I heard the market share of American films in America is 98% or something)1. Of course that movie majors possess the distribution channels in North America (including Canada) doesn't seem to have any effect on the imports of Danish productions2. How many Canadian films can you name from your memory?3 Re Quebec, a simple but sad truth: French. The general public in America doesn't want subtitles4. Others in Europe are more open-minded, and despite Quebec's small size there are people interested about our culture in Germany, Italy, etc. Many Quebecois filsm get their entry there by the movie festivals, which have much more influence over there than in corporate stigmatized America5.

Sadly ignorant post, Boris.

1. Define "American" film. Is it the New Zealand produced Return of the King, a film that was the number 1 movie of 2003? Is it Cold Mountain, a film featuring American stars, an English director, and a Romanian film crew?

2. The motion picture production units (Disney, Miramax, etc) do not, repeat, do not own the "distribution channels" (i.e., theaters) and haven't done so since the 1950's when dual ownership of studios and theaters was disallowed under the Sherman Antitrust Act. You base many of your subsequent arguments with this "fact" in mind - stop it.

3. Videodrome (most of Croenenberg's work, actually), Agnes, Mother of God, Bach and Broccoli, Strange Brew, 32 Short Films about Glenn Gould, The Red Violin.

4. Which explains the success of CT/HD, Hero, Ameilie, Osama, and a whole host of imports?

5. Excepting the LA, NY, and Sundance Film festivals, not to mention the numerous local film festivals that exist in every city of over a quarter-million people (hell, there's even a Knoxville film festival, though granted, we obviously care more for quality movies than the Quebecois who can't be bothered to throw up a decent alternative theater).

	09-10-2004 08:38									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris subtitles are a major hindrance to the commercial viability of a movie.

Tell it to Mel Gibson. back atcha.

	09-10-2004 11:17									#222
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In addition, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", but since that is a Chinese film it don't count, right?

	09-10-2004 15:25									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Moral Hazard Alot of small cities have independent theaters as well. I've never been well because I only go to the movies for dates. I'll go with something mainstream for that ya know an action movie or a tom green flick. It shows I have class.

Some bigger cities too. St. Louis has a pretty interesting independent theatre.

	09-10-2004 15:26									#224
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye From this I'm guessing you must speak only one language, or you would be more aware of the links between culture, thinking, and language.

No, I speak French too (though not too well ) - I just don't see how the world would be better off with these barriers to communication than without.

	09-10-2004 16:18									#225
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The world will benefit from a common language. Every idiot knows this. Chirac's only concerned that the language the world prefers is not French. He raises the "Hate America" issue primarily to bolster his argument for French as a alternative world language, but also because he hates anything English and knows the world hates America (because of its arrogance, of course).

	09-10-2004 18:11									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker - I just don't see how the world would be better off with these barriers to communication than without.

Barriers to communication are unfortunatly very often located in other human behaviour that language. And also, in some instances, these barriers are a protection : for instance I would prefer never understand the words eructated by Ned.

You could also consider the basic english used by people all over the world; it hardly exceed 100 words, and one can doubt that it will ever be sufficient to communicate complex and sensible ideas and feelings. Molly bloom has probably one of the best writing expression of Apolyton, and in every post I find one or two words that I dont understand, and very often that my dictionnary ignore as well! I certainly express myself more precisely and deeply in my autochthonous language. So you can forget your imperialistic dream of 6 billions people speaking english in lieu of their native language.

	09-10-2004 18:16									#227
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Barriers to communication are unfortunatly very often located in other human behaviour that language. And also, in some instances, these barriers are a protection : for instance I would prefer never understand the words eructated by Ned. You could also consider the basic english used by people all over the world; it hardly exceed 100 words, and one can doubt that it will ever be sufficient to communicate complex and sensible ideas and feelings. Molly bloom has probably one of the best writing expression of Apolyton, and in every post I find one or two words that I dont understand, and very often that my dictionnary ignore as well! I certainly express myself more precisely and deeply in my autochthonous language. So you can forget your imperialistic dream of 6 billions people speaking english in lieu of their native language.

Davout, what is it that you don't understand about my posts? My typos, my use of obscure words at times, or my right-wing ideas? Or all of the above?

You guys in Europe are fools to not want one language now that you have effectively restored common rule with the EU. One of the lessons of the Roman Empire is that one language and one culture were good.

	09-10-2004 18:17									#228
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The only logic from this would be that no, we wouldn't all learn to speak english but rather mandarin chinese. That's the biggest one right there. Do you want to learn this by force? One less barrier, right? I don't think so.

Besidfes, you can't express yourself fully with new languages as you can with your native language. Of course exceptions might occur, but this is the rule. It doesn't make the communication better, it can even limit the majority. This naturally is OK with most, if the english is chosen as THE language. How about mandarin chinese. How about Finnish? Or, if you feel like you wouldn't learn it fully in 10 years.. what do I care, I already do speak it?

	09-10-2004 18:22									#229
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Pekka, how about Latin?

	09-10-2004 18:26									#230
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well that's fair I guess if we were to choose one.

I just don't believe it would be a great idea. I see the benefits of one language, but I don't think .. I mean it is part of the people and their identity and culture. To separate them would be not rich but vice versa IMO.

In EU, it will never happen. Do you think we all want to learn French and speak only that? On the other hand, do you think the French will give up French? THat's one right there. Then there are others too...

	09-10-2004 18:28									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Davout, what is it that you don't understand about my posts? My typos, my use of obscure words at times, or my right-wing ideas? Or all of the above?

My point is not that I do not understand your posts, it that I would PREFER not to understand them. This is a nice demonstration that all my efforts to speak english are wasted!

I am a right winger in Europe, but I do not recognize right-wing ideas in your ideas. As a matter of fact, I see you as mainly accusing people with whom you desagree on the basis of intents that you imagine they have. And this is really boring.

	09-10-2004 18:29									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka well that's fair I guess if we were to choose one. I just don't believe it would be a great idea. I see the benefits of one language, but I don't think .. I mean it is part of the people and their identity and culture. To separate them would be not rich but vice versa IMO. In EU, it will never happen. Do you think we all want to learn French and speak only that? On the other hand, do you think the French will give up French? THat's one right there. Then there are others too...

The way to do it would be to have everyone learn English as well as their native language. Business and government would be conducted in English for efficiency. The native cultures would continue for a time, perhaps for a long time. I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years.

	09-10-2004 18:33									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years.

I have heard some saying that the English language has not survived in the US a well.

	09-10-2004 18:34									#234
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Why? Why would we want that? I don't believe in one culture and one language. That sounds a lot like 3rd reich. English IS taught in most places and people speak it. What do you mean native cultures? Whose culture is chosen to be the one and only one? I just can't see what the good thing is in that one... I don't see why other people should be like me or why I should be like them. I should learn to understand other people and educate other people about me.

besides, if we are to go with the dominating language, and oldest cultures, then we go to China, that's it. There's no English.

	09-10-2004 18:41									#235
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Diversity and complexity are all the worth of life. Limit the use of industrial principles where they are useful, not in sociology.

	09-10-2004 18:41									#236
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Pekka, then the EU would be out of step with the rest of the world if it sucks Chirac's Gaulic member.

	09-10-2004 18:43									#237
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Oh. We're not sucking anyones member. And we have our own language and culture. That's it.

	09-10-2004 18:44									#238
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The choice of English is not surrender. It is pratical.

	09-10-2004 18:47									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years

AFAIK it did better than the original language

	09-10-2004 18:48									#240
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? I think you are overestimating Chirac's powers and influence..