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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Did you hear Allawi? Or do you dismiss him as a Bush stooge as did Kerry.
Yeah, Sir Ralph, I suspect the German people react with glee at every beheading, at every mass slaughter of civilians by Zarqawi and most particularly, at every act of sabatoge of the oil pipelines, as this only goes to show just how bad the liberation of Iraq is to the people of Iraq. |
You have no understanding of the german people.
As far as Iraq goes, the people generally would like the American's to succeed (what choice do they have now?) However, the prospects simply aren't that great and a lot of fairly bad things are happening. Civilians, especially children, getting show by American troops has turned many communities against in general. Often when they had gotten together and elected a community leader when we came in, we removed that leader and put in charge one of Saddam's people. It is a truth to say that a lot of Saddam's people are still in charge, and this doesn't look like it will change soon.
We don't have enough troops on the ground either, which means that instead of walking through communities and getting to know the people there, our troops must blaze through on vehicles with guns at the ready; no time to talk. We can't win the trust of the Iraqis like that.
They might want us to succeed, but they also don't trust us a lot, nor are they happy about the fact there is an occupation.
-Drachasor
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Did you hear Allawi? Or do you dismiss him as a Bush stooge as did Kerry. |
If there is a personnification of the word "Bush stooge", its name is Allawi.
quote:
Yeah, Sir Ralph, I suspect the German people react with glee at every beheading, at every mass slaughter of civilians by Zarqawi and most particularly, at every act of sabatoge of the oil pipelines, as this only goes to show just how bad the liberation of Iraq is to the people of Iraq. |
They condemn every crime, torture and mass slaughter of civilians equally harsh, no matter which side committed it. And they, in contrast to you, see the simple truth, that an insurgency of these dimensions (a better word would be resistance) would not be possible without broad support in the Iraqi population.
That said, and considering the amount of hatred and the lack of reason in your last post, I am tired to discuss with you. Have a great day in the realm of bigotry. 
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Defiant
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WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
You have no understanding of the german people.
As far as Iraq goes, the people generally would like the American's to succeed (what choice do they have now?) However, the prospects simply aren't that great and a lot of fairly bad things are happening. Civilians, especially children, getting show by American troops has turned many communities against in general. Often when they had gotten together and elected a community leader when we came in, we removed that leader and put in charge one of Saddam's people. It is a truth to say that a lot of Saddam's people are still in charge, and this doesn't look like it will change soon.
We don't have enough troops on the ground either, which means that instead of walking through communities and getting to know the people there, our troops must blaze through on vehicles with guns at the ready; no time to talk. We can't win the trust of the Iraqis like that.
They might want us to succeed, but they also don't trust us a lot, nor are they happy about the fact there is an occupation.
-Drachasor |
We will get the troops on the ground, but it has to be Iraqi troops, it doesn't need to be us.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Somehow, I think you are confusing Bush's plan with Kerry's. It is Bush who is in favor of allowing small business to ban together to get the same benefits as big companies, and to provide health centers for those who don't have health insurance. It is Bush who favor want true tort reform.
Kerry's plans go way beyond this in that what he proposes has nothing to do with the problems of small business and the poor, but offers instead a major takeover of the health insurance industry by the government. |
Hmm, no I just misunderstood Kerry's, I suppose. I thought I had heard him say something like that on an individual level.
Anyhow, here is a link to his plan:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/health_care/
And there are more links on the right side to specific details.
He wants to cut waste, refund companies for the extremely expensive cases that can come up and drastically raise premiums. He wants them to have access to the same plans that Senators do, which IS NOT government-run healthcare. There would be tax-credits to help ease the cost as well.
When a private company is giving out the benefits, you do not have government-run healthcare.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
We will get the troops on the ground, but it has to be Iraqi troops, it doesn't need to be us. |
You mean those Iraqi troops with bad equipment and 3 weeks of training? Because almost all of the 100,000 Bush talks about only have gone through a 3-week program.
The Iraqi forces will not be ready for a long time. If Bush proceeds, then they never will be ready even if there are a lot of them.
-Drachasor
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Defiant
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WISCONSIN
Aug 1999
time: 05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
If there is a personnification of the word "Bush stooge", its name is Allawi.
They condemn every crime, torture and mass slaughter of civilians equally harsh, no matter which side committed it. And they, in contrast to you, see the simple truth, that an insurgency of these dimensions (a better word would be resistance) would not be possible without broad support in the Iraqi population.
That said, and considering the amount of hatred and the lack of reason in your last post, I am tired to discuss with you. Have a great day in the realm of bigotry. |
Sir Ralph,
It is easy to get broad support when you play the game that the insurgents to, work with us or die(along with your family), we don't play by those rules therefore we are at a disadvantage. It is widely known by just everyone that it is a few thousand that are causing all the havoc, and with terror tactics they can controll the civilians of a city the size of Falluja, fact is, they are more afraid of them than us, and that is the way it should be, we have to overcome that.
That sir, is the simple fact.
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
Sir Ralph,
It is easy to get broad support when you play the game that the insurgents to, work with us or die(along with your family), we don't play by those rules therefore we are at a disadvantage. It is widely known by just everyone that it is a few thousand that are causing all the havoc, and with terror tactics they can controll the civilians of a city the size of Falluja, fact is, they are more afraid of them than us, and that is the way it should be, we have to overcome that.
That sir, is the simple fact. |
If you believe this "work with us or die" rubbish, which would work with individuals, but never with the whole population af a city or region even, I have no hope to enlighten you. Seek your truth here.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
quote:
That said, and considering the amount of hatred and the lack of reason in your last post, I am tired to discuss with you. Have a great day in the realm of bigotry. |
sir ralph, isn't it obvious? if you don't support bush, you're a traitor. and because you're german and a traitor, you must therefore be a nazi--and therefore take glee in the mass murder of lesser peoples. |
No. Sir Ralph just cannot handle the gross inconsistency in Germany's position. Germany hates Bush for proceeding in Iraq despite their "advice," and dismisses as stoogism all thanks the people of Iraq give Bush and the US for their liberation. They say they will not lift a finger to help the Iraqis in this their time of need because Bush is personna non grata. When I sarcasticly say that the people of Iraq will always remember Germany's support, Sir Ralph laughs, but continues to declare the allied effort in Iraq mistaken. When I ask whether the German people rejoice in the mayhem and chaos, he says I am a bigot for asking; but the actions of the German people speak louder than words. The greater the chaos and destruction, the more the Germans are satisfied that they were right and that Bush was wrong. They will not lift a finger to help the Iraqi people because that would be an admission that they were wrong to oppose its liberation in the first place. They are content to see the Iraqi people continue to suffer to justify their oppostion and hatred of Bush.
Now, what would an Iraqi who wants to be free think of the Germans?
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:20
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quote:
Of course, if we ignore the NPR interview where he pledged to vastly reduce troop levels there within 6 months of being elected after beating Bush over the head because there weren't enough troops there in his opinion then you'd be abso;utely correct. |
I believe that the word used in NPR was "significantly," not "vastly." In any case a "significant reduction" by no means is an evacuation.
As for the supposed contradiction, the idea's to make up the deficit in bringing other countries in (or at least, stopping other countries from leaving)/training Iraqis.
Further, this is a later stage in the occupation that requires less of a foreign presence; chances are, the Iraqi gov't will be elected (at least to some extent, by some measure) by the time Kerry takes office, and thus will have more legitimacy.
I don't particularly like Kerry's "plan", but he doesn't sound like he'll leave straight away, and anything's better than the mind-boggling incompetence/malevolence of this administration.
quote:
I don't really believe Ramo so that's open to debate at this point. |
What don't you believe? That Novak said that the Bush Admin is planning on cutting and running, or that Novak is correct?
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Hmm, no I just misunderstood Kerry's, I suppose. I thought I had heard him say something like that on an individual level.
Anyhow, here is a link to his plan:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/health_care/
And there are more links on the right side to specific details.
He wants to cut waste, refund companies for the extremely expensive cases that can come up and drastically raise premiums. He wants them to have access to the same plans that Senators do, which IS NOT government-run healthcare. There would be tax-credits to help ease the cost as well.
When a private company is giving out the benefits, you do not have government-run healthcare.
-Drachasor |
Drach, none of that addresses the needs of small business and poor. It instead offers the currently insured a government plan, which, of course, will ultimately result in a federal takeover.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
I know you want this all done in a FEDEX schedule but it takes time, these new recruits are also afraid, it takes time but it will happen. |
They need more training, but they aren't going to get it.
The people with the 3-week course are DONE according the Bush administration. They have all the training they need.
This thing will take time, but all evidence indicates that Bush refused to acknowledge that. Internal reports indicating he wants to pull out after the election (if re-elected), unwilling to get the number of troops needed (eventually the military commanders have just stopped asking out of frustration), and not training the Iraqi forces enough, nor devoting enough energy to train them more rapidly.
This didn't have to be a quagmire, but the Administration's attitude caused it to be so.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Drach, none of that addresses the needs of small business and poor. It instead offers the currently insured a government plan, which, of course, will ultimately result in a federal takeover. |
Maybe you need to actually read the links I provide:
quote:
A Plan For Stronger, Healthier Businesses
Today, America's businesses face daunting challenges in providing employees with quality health care at affordable prices. The national health care system is riddled with waste and inefficiency, making it unreasonably expensive for employers to keep their workers covered and their businesses growing.
John Kerry and John Edwards believe that businesses should not have to compromise on coverage to stay competitive. By helping businesses reduce their costs, the Kerry-Edwards plan will provide relief for America's employers and workers.
Cut Premiums By Up To $1,000 For America's Workers. Paying for catastrophic care can pose enormous problems for businesses, especially small and medium-sized ones. Catastrophic injuries and illnesses are impossible to predict, and caring for them is extremely expensive. As a result, a single catastrophic case can drastically raise the price of health insurance for all the employees of a small business. To ease the burden of businesses in caring for catastrophic cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will reimburse businesses for 75 percent of the cost of catastrophic care.
Taxes Credits To Cut The Cost Of Health Insurance By Up To 50 Percent. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, small businesses will receive tax credits to help them provide health insurance for their low and moderate-income employees. The tax credit will cover up to 50 percent of the cost of the employers' share of the premiums. To be eligible, an employer offering the new Kerry-Edwards Congressional Health Plan will have to pay at least 50 percent of the health insurance premium.
Cut Administrative Costs By Eliminating Waste, Fraud And Abuse. Today, about 25 percent of the annual cost of health care goes towards non-medical costs - mainly paperwork and other costs associated with preparing, submitting, calculating, and paying bills. Due to these costs, settling a single transaction can cost as much as $12 to $25. By comparison, a transaction in the banking industry costs less than a penny.
Harnessing the power of America's ingenuity and technological know-how, the Kerry-Edwards plan will save billions every year by:
* Ensuring that all Americans have secure, private medical records by 2008, which will eliminate unnecessary tests and reduce serious medical errors by as much as 88 percent.
* Giving health providers technology bonuses to simplify and streamline their paperwork - allowing patients to spend more time with doctors and less time filling out forms.
* Require insurers doing business with the federal government to use advanced systems. To make health care transactions less costly, private insurers would have to use this simplified technology standard as a condition of doing business with the Federal government (Medicare, Medicaid, and the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program).
Reduce Medical Malpractice Premiums. As president, John Kerry will require that a qualified specialist certifies a medical malpractice case's merit before it is allowed to move forward. He will also work with states to ensure the availability of non-binding mediation in all malpractice claims before cases proceed to trial. John Kerry will make the system fairer for doctors and patients alike by preventing and punishing frivolous lawsuits. Lawyers who file frivolous cases would face tough, mandatory sanctions, including a "three strikes and you're out" provision that forbids lawyers who file three frivolous cases from bringing another suit for the next 10 years. John Kerry also opposes punitive damages - unless intentional misconduct, gross negligence, or reckless indifference to life can be established. Finally, John Kerry will work to eliminate the special privileges that allow insurance companies to fix prices and collude in ways that increase medical malpractice premiums.
Improve The Efficiency And Quality Of Care To Cut Administrative Costs. In the health care system, inefficiency and negligence can lead to serious injury and even death - as well as higher costs. A recent study by the Institute of Medicine found that between 44,000 and 98,000 people die of medical errors every year. These tragedies are preventable. The vast majorities of injuries are not caused by negligent doctors or hospitals, but because of outmoded practices, habits and systems that fail to adequately protect patients from harmful errors.
The Kerry-Edwards plan will offer a "quality bonus," enabling purchasers and providers to use upfront capital to upgrade quality and reduce errors to improve outcomes. It will also ensure that health care organizations and physicians that invest in advanced information technology are rewarded with financial incentives, including the funds needed to install computerized prescribing systems, which can reduce medication errors by 80 percent or more. |
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Drach, I see no plan to cover the poor. Giving tax credits helps everyone, not just small business. Offering a federal plan for catastophic health insurance reduces everyone's health insurance cost, not just those of small business.
Since Kerry proposes to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for this, all this amounts to is just another income transfer mechanism well associated with liberalism.
Bush's plan is focused on the need, not on a Federal takeover or wealth redistribution. |
Bush has no clear plan for helping the poor. Kerry gives actual figures.
Again, read the website (there is some repetition in the below because some things affect multiple people):
quote:
A Plan For Stronger, Healthier Families And Children
John Kerry and John Edwards believe that all American families are entitled to the security and peace of mind that comes from knowing their families have the coverage they need to stay healthy - without breaking the bank.
Over the last three years, the cost of family health insurance has increased by more than $3,512, and the portion paid by families has increased by almost 64 percent. Even today, millions of children lack basic coverage. John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to cut health care costs for families, cut waste from the system, and ensure access to reliable, affordable coverage for 95 percent of Americans, including every American child.
Cut Family Premiums By Up To $1,000 For American Workers. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America's families.
Cover All Children And Millions More Adults. By extending state-based programs, the Kerry-Edwards plan will pick up the full cost of coverage for the more than 20 million children enrolled in Medicaid. In exchange, states would expand coverage for families up to 200 percent of poverty and for childless adults up to 100 percent of poverty. As a result, the Kerry-Edwards plan will extend reliable coverage to:
* 26.7 million Americans who are currently uninsured
* 95 percent of all Americans
* Every child
Help All Americans Buy Into The Same Coverage As Members Of Congress. The Kerry-Edwards plan will give all Americans access to the same range of affordable plans currently available to members of Congress. This will provide more choices and better, more affordable coverage than is generally available to people without high-quality, employer-sponsored insurance.
Cut Prescription Drug Costs. In the last year alone, prescription drug prices have risen by 17 percent, a major cause of skyrocketing health insurance costs. To dramatically reduce the cost of prescription drugs, the Kerry-Edwards plan will overhaul the current Medicare bill to:
* Allow re-importation of Prescription Drugs to give Americans access to the substantial discounts available in Canada.
* End artificial barriers to generic drug competition.
* Require the Secretary of Health and Human Services to negotiate better prices for prescription drugs, instead of paying whatever the drug companies choose to charge.
* Require transparency rules for Pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) that do business with the Federal government. PBMs process hundreds of millions of pharmaceutical claims per year and manage drug benefits for more than 200 million Americans. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, companies will be required to reveal the profits they make from the drug industry and show that discounts are being passed on to seniors.
* Help states provide discounts by giving them incentives to implement more efficient contracting in order to obtain better rates for prescription drugs.
Reduce Medical Malpractice Premiums. As president, John Kerry will require that a qualified specialist certifies a medical malpractice case's merit before it is allowed to move forward. He will also work with states to ensure the availability of non-binding mediation in all malpractice claims before cases proceed to trial. John Kerry will make the system fairer for doctors and patients alike by preventing and punishing frivolous lawsuits. Lawyers who file frivolous cases would face tough, mandatory sanctions, including a "three strikes and you're out" provision that forbids lawyers who file three frivolous cases from bringing another suit for the next 10 years. John Kerry also opposes punitive damages -- unless intentional misconduct, gross negligence, or reckless indifference to life can be established. Finally, John Kerry will work to eliminate the special privileges that allow insurance companies to fix prices and collude in ways that increase medical malpractice premiums.
Cut Taxes To Make Health Insurance More Affordable. The Kerry-Edwards plan will provide $177 billion in tax credits to make health care more affordable for people and businesses that buy into the new Congressional Health Plan. These credits include:
* A 25 percent credit for seniors aged 55 to 64 whose salaries fall below 300 percent of poverty.
* A 75 percent credit for people between jobs and whose salaries fall below 300 percent of poverty.
* A tax credit of up to 50 percent for small businesses that cover low-to-moderate income workers.
* A tax credit for workers not eligible for other provisions of the Kerry-Edwards plan. This credit would limit premiums to less than 6 percent of income for workers below poverty, then phase out to 12 percent of income for workers at 300 percent of poverty.
Cut Administrative Costs By Eliminating Waste, Fraud And Abuse. Today, about 25 percent of the annual cost of health care goes towards non-medical costs - mainly paperwork and other costs associated with preparing, submitting, calculating, and paying bills. Due to these costs, settling a single transaction can cost as much as $12 to $25. By comparison, a transaction in the banking industry costs less than a penny. Harnessing the power of American ingenuity and technological know-how, the Kerry-Edwards plan will save billions every year by:
* Ensuring that all Americans have secure, private medical records by 2008, which will eliminate unnecessary tests and reduce serious medical errors by as much as 88 percent.
* Giving health providers technology bonuses to simplify and streamline their paperwork - allowing patients to spend more time with doctors and less time filling out forms.
* Require private sector insurers to use advanced systems. To make health care transactions less costly, private insurers would have to use this simplified technology standard as a condition of doing business with the Federal government (Medicare, Medicaid, and the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program).
Giving Patients Real Protections Through A Real, Enforceable Patients' Bill Of Rights. The Bush administration has continued blocking bipartisan efforts to pass a Patients' Bill of Rights in Congress. They also sent their lawyers to the Supreme Court to stand with the HMOs and argue against giving patients the right to sue HMOs. As president, John Kerry will push for a real Patients' Bill of Rights to protect Americans from HMO decisions that harm patients by denying them necessary medical care - one that ensures patients have access to reliable, high-quality health care. Critical patient protections John Kerry and John Edwards will support include:
* A right to see the specialists they need
* A right to real emergency protections
* A real external appeals process that allows patients to appeal a HMO decision
* A right to hold health plans accountable
* Whistleblower protections that allow health care workers to report quality problems without fear of retaliation |
All Bush says is that he'll make programs for the poor. He gives no indication of what they will be like. He gives no indication of how he will pay for his programs. Kerry's tax-rollbacks for the rich will fully cover his health-care proposal.
Also, half of what Bush says has already been done, so it will already be part of what life will be like under Kerry's administration.
I'll take the candidate with detailed proposals and a plan to pay for them, especially over the one that has consistently favored corporations' profit margins over the American people on health-care.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
I will agree to an extent.
Still, Kerry has not addressed how he is going to cover all these costs specifically. What else is he spending money on? Will the rollback cover those costs?
I seriously doubt the rollback will cover even the healthcare costs. |
He has detailed the spending, and non-partisan groups have gone over his proposal.
The roll-back will fully cover the Healthcare costs, and perhaps then some.
Kerry is someone that believes in showing where the money is coming from for new proposals, and he does do that.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
If you are right and the majority of the people hate us and they are the remnents of Saddam, they are our enemy and we should do what we did to Dresdon, correct. We fire bomb 1/4 of Falluja I guarrantee the rest will no longer resist. |
They might be demoralized for a while, but the resistance over all of Iraq and the Middle East would grow tremendously.
Policies like that make a hell of a lot more terrorists, they don't reduce the numbers.
You are not being pragmatic or realistic; your ideology would cause problems and is not part of a solution.
-Drachasor
Last edited by Drachasor on 21-10-2004 at 00:14
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20-10-2004 21:35
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