20-10-2004 13:01									#121
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You mean diplomacy like saying 'wrong war, wrong place, wrong time', but we'll get our allies more involved?

Allies that believe it was a mistake too. Heck, the vast majority of the world believes it was a mistake.

Believe it or not, you can get people to help you fix a mistake, but you often have to admit it was a mistake first. Certainly this is true in Iraq, as they will never go in if it means they will seemingly be supporting the Bushian pre-emption and lack of planning/political considerations policies.

You have to be able to talk to and work with your allies. It takes time, patience, and respect. Bush doesn't have any of this.

Oh, and are you conceding all of my other points?

-Drachasor

	20-10-2004 13:27									#122
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No, I just like this one most.

You mean it takes time, patience, and respect to make the Iraqis feel as if they don't have legitimate representatives and never will with the Yanks around?

I wonder how Kerry makes Karzai feel?

With allies like that, one needs fewer enemies... to be dead.

The man is a walking international disaster. Bush may have upset apple carts, Kerry has no clue that what he says is listened to outside of focus groups.

I think the guy has to be dumber than a sack of hammers.

	20-10-2004 13:32									#123
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The idea that Kerry's comments are upsetting the international community are just made up by the Bush camp. We love that he admits the blindingly obvious fact that it was the wrong war in the wrong place and wants to get the international community involved. His comments on needing to combat terrorism through improved intelligence gathering monitoring, surveilance and counter terrorism rather than massive land wars that stir up anti-west hatred and increase terrorist recruitment are just plain common sense.

	20-10-2004 13:40									#124
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Heh. You love it. Let me tell you, it does not make any Canadians lean any further towards sending anything to get yours and the Yanks asses out of the sling. Quite the reverse.

In short? The guy's a moron of major proportions.

Oh, and believing a democrat that he won't invade anything is like believing in Santa Claus.

	20-10-2004 13:43									#125
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Who cares about Canada? I'm talking about major international players.

	20-10-2004 14:01									#126
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HARR HARR HARR

	20-10-2004 14:04									#127
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Anyway I'm perfectly aware of Kerry's many shortcomings but he can't possibly alienate the international community as much as Bush, it's just not possible.

	20-10-2004 14:05									#128
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You think or you hope?

	20-10-2004 14:09									#129
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Maybe you underestimate how much Bush's administration is disliked outside North America? Which is incredible considering the support they had around the world in the wake of 9/11.

	20-10-2004 14:16									#130
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Maybe. I just don't see it improving with Kerry. The guy is a disaster that can be seen coming.

He honestly thinks he can slag the war in Iraq as a bad idea and a huge mess, and then get others to send help? To what? Suicide, the way he tells it.

The only thing I see him doing is setting up an escape from Iraq. **** the people. **** democracy and the ME. Get us the **** out of there, right now.

It makes me sick to think that Iraqis went through all that they went through, and that now in the last mile some panty waist from Mass is gonna throw them to the wolves.

	20-10-2004 14:16									#131
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I don't underestimate it, I just believe Bush is still better than Kerry.

	20-10-2004 14:18									#132
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If Kerry pulls, it'll be Somalia all over again.

	20-10-2004 14:20									#133
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Maybe. I just don't see it improving with Kerry. The guy is a disaster that can be seen coming. He honestly thinks he can slag the war in Iraq as a bad idea and a huge mess, and then get others to send help? To what? Suicide, the way he tells it.

Yes, I think that him saying "Sorry, we (well that twot who was here before me) totally ****ed this place up - you were all totally right about what would happen - but now we really need your help to sort this mess out..." would work.

	20-10-2004 14:21									#134
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Well, good luck to you, and him.

	20-10-2004 14:22									#135
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It makes me sick to think that Iraqis went through all that they went through, and that now in the last mile some panty waist from Mass is gonna throw them to the wolves.

Last mile?! It's barely begun.

	20-10-2004 14:23									#136
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Well, good luck to you, and him.

I'd just feel less worried about the world if Bush wasn't there pissing everyone off and dragging us with him. The world is a much scarier place than it was 4 years ago.

	20-10-2004 14:37									#137
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That tends to happen in the fall out of major events.

Uncertainty is scary.

	20-10-2004 14:38									#138
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Last mile?! It's barely begun.

If all this started for you in the 1980's, you might see a few years as 'the last mile'.

	20-10-2004 14:40									#139
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I'm amused that everyone thinks Kerry, a man vocal in wanting Saddam gone, would have done things a lot differently.

	20-10-2004 15:00									#140
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Kerry is a bold idiot. Bush is a dangerous idiot. I don't mind America being ruled by an idiot, even more since there seems to be no way to avoid it. But out of pure selfishness as foreigner, I prefer the bold idiot over the dangerous big time.

	20-10-2004 15:01									#141
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither If all this started for you in the 1980's, you might see a few years as 'the last mile'.

When we're back to having a US supported Iraq what exactly will have changed since the 80s?

	20-10-2004 15:02									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Kerry is a bold idiot. Bush is a dangerous idiot. I don't mind America being ruled by an idiot, even more since there seems to be no way to avoid it. But out of pure selfishness as foreigner, I prefer the bold idiot over the dangerous big time.

You're assuming that Kerry's boldness will not be more dangerous. That's quite an assumption.

	20-10-2004 15:05									#143
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You're assuming that Kerry's boldness will not be more dangerous. That's quite an assumption.

I'm prone to give him a shot. Time will show. Bush has had his shot and missed by a mile.

	20-10-2004 15:05									#144
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH When we're back to having a US supported Iraq what exactly will have changed since the 80s?

I don't know, maybe a democracy and the lack of mass graves filled with fresh kills of the dictator?

Would that be progress?

	20-10-2004 15:05									#145
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Well we know how dangerous Bush has already been. It'd be insanity to give him another chance.

	20-10-2004 15:10									#146
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No. We all know how shrill the opposition to Bush has been. There is a difference.

	20-10-2004 15:14									#147
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Bush is much worse at what, not being a liberal?

We went through independent and neutral sources tto determine which candidate lied more. Bush came out well ahead of Kerry with not only more lies told but bigger lies.

	20-10-2004 15:25									#148
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No. We all know how shrill the opposition to Bush has been. There is a difference.

Some people are blinkered.

	20-10-2004 15:27									#149
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I don't know, maybe a democracy and the lack of mass graves filled with fresh kills of the dictator? Would that be progress?

The very same dictator the US was selling weapons to in the 80s?

That would be progress, if that comes of this whole disaster it'd be amazing but we're a long way from that now. (unlike in Afghanistan which seems to be going pretty well)

	20-10-2004 15:29									#150
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I seem to recall the EU & the USSR as being far larger weapons dealers to Saddam then the US. He used Soviet Tanks and French fighter planes and it was German chemical companies who sold him everything needed to make chemical weapons. However, people blame the US.