03-11-2004 21:19									#331
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: What common wisdom? I stopped paying serious attention to the polls weeks ago exactly because there was no common wisdom... Everything pointed to a Kerry victory, in theory. Incumbent rule, voter turnout, etc. etc. It all turned out to be wrong.

You need to step outside the cocoon, Ramo. I read plenty of analysis before the election, from both the left and the right, and I never detected the "common wisdom" you're talking about. In fact, I found most of your analysis here to be laughably optimistic...

	03-11-2004 21:19									#332
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Well, even given the increase in population, Clinton never managed to gain more votes than Nixon's previous record in 72, let alone Ronald Reagan. Another interesting thing to note, is that Democrats have not held this record since LBJ in 64. None of the Democrat wins represented highwater marks of the popular vote. So what is this myth that higher turnout benefits Democrats?

Because there are more registered Dems?

But even that has changed over the years as the Republicans now have rough parity in numbers.

But, Republicans seem also to vote in higher percentages than Dems. No one has to go beg a Republican voter to register and vote.

	03-11-2004 21:20									#333
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Not yet.

I still want to run the numbers on what if Kerry got Gore's numbers in 2000 adjusted for the increase in population.

I wonder if I would have won, if Bush got his increased turnout, and Kerry didn't.

	03-11-2004 21:23									#334
	Support Apolyton

quote: No one has to go beg a Republican voter to register and vote.

True, and very sad, but the issues are never that 'close' to them either, such as for example gay-marriage.
That's something, if you're against it , that will feel alot stronger about than when you're in the pro/neutral camp.

	03-11-2004 21:23									#335
	Increase Your PM Length

Wow, I can't tell you how proud I feel to be American now

	03-11-2004 21:23									#336
	Tired of ads?

Well, I guess it's time for me to go to bed now that Kerry will concede. Later...

	03-11-2004 21:24									#337
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Actually, Hillary is more right-wing than Obama. Dunno if he'd have the experience though (he wouldn't even have a full Senate term), but he'd definitely be a candidate in 8 or 12 years. And I don't think he'd bail on his constituents. I'm hoping for Feingold, personally. The DNC will be seriously be assaulted by the grass roots, though. McAuliffe will get the **** beaten out of him.

I dunno if Hillary is more right wing or not since I know very little about Obama. I just doubt that she can take any of the states that just voted (overwhelmingly) for Bush. So it would be the same dem mistake all over again.

	03-11-2004 21:27									#338
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

America had a clear choice between evil and not-so evil... it chose pure evil.

Congratulations righties... you have your moron in office for another 4 years. Let's see how much more of a failure he will be. I wonder if there will be another terror attack... or how much worse will things get for the middle class.

At least now the Democratic Party can clean house. Get rid of the Clintonians. Kerry is a failure... he couldn't even beat Dubya the moron.

	03-11-2004 21:29									#339
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Kerry is a failure... he couldn't even beat Dubya the moron.

Says more about the US than about Kerry IMO.
In just ANY other country in the world he would would have won.

	03-11-2004 21:29									#340
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Sava America had a clear choice between evil and not-so evil... it chose pure evil. Congratulations righties... you have your moron in office for another 4 years. Let's see how much more of a failure he will be. I wonder if there will be another terror attack... or how much worse will things get for the middle class. At least now the Democratic Party can clean house. Get rid of the Clintonians. Kerry is a failure... he couldn't even beat Dubya the moron.

Why did Kerry give up so soon? He theoretically could have won Ohio still... I don't get it.

Well, with the new mandate Bush is going to go hog wild in Iraq... the best thing we can hope for at this point is a complete failure. Maybe then he'll get impeached or something, or resign who knows.

	03-11-2004 21:31									#341
	Got spare money?

quote: America had a clear choice between evil and not-so evil... it chose pure evil. Congratulations righties... you have your moron in office for another 4 years. Let's see how much more of a failure he will be. I wonder if there will be another terror attack... or how much worse will things get for the middle class. At least now the Democratic Party can clean house. Get rid of the Clintonians. Kerry is a failure... he couldn't even beat Dubya the moron.

I'm really glad people like you exist sava. You are a perfect example to all of what the left really is. You prove once and for all that liberals have no substance other than to repeat the same catch phrases and lines over and over. Here's two thumbs up for helping us win the election. My thanks to Sava and people like sava everywhere.

	03-11-2004 21:31									#342
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

nah he ain't worth it

	03-11-2004 21:32									#343
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: And which way do you predict it to go? A shift to the left or back to the right? Personally, I think if the dems are smart they'll forget about Hilary in 08 and look for a centrist who will have a chance to take a few southern states. It'll be too soon for Obama, otherwise I'd say he's a shoe-in for the nomination. Actually, Hillary is more right-wing than Obama. Dunno if he'd have the experience though (he wouldn't even have a full Senate term), but he'd definitely be a candidate in 8 or 12 years. And I don't think he'd bail on his constituents. I'm hoping for Feingold, personally. The DNC will be seriously be assaulted by the grass roots, though. McAuliffe will get the **** beaten out of him.

Hillary may be more centrist issue by issue than Obama (im not sure really) but I fear a whole range of past associations make it hard for her to appeal to cultural conservatives in the red states. I think Obama may have more potential. Personally I like Ed Rendell (who has the advantage of being a governor, not a Senator), but I think no Jew (other than maybe a left wing one) is viable while the WOT is underway, which it may well be in 2008.

IF the WOT is still a big factor in 2008, Bob Graham may be the best shot - has been a governor, from Florida, and matches the "dem must be a southerner" criteria, even if little appeal in most southern states.

	03-11-2004 21:32									#344
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Since Rehnquist's a reactionary, his leaving his post won't matter much, except to see Scalia heading the Court.

It will have an impact as GWB has a tendency to nominate some very partisan people. I like to think judges should be non-partisan but I guess that's just wishful thinking.

Specifically, dealing with Rehnquist who ever replaces him will likely be on the bench for 25-50 years so it is a major blow. I believe four more justices are in their 80's and a likely to retire so this could be the end of America as a pro-choice country.

	03-11-2004 21:32									#345
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Says more about the US than about Kerry IMO. In just ANY other country in the world he would would have won.

Says alot about the world too. Thanks for helping us win the election with all your endorsements of Kerry.

	03-11-2004 21:32									#346
	Support Apolyton

quote: other than to repeat the same catch phrases and lines over and over

How retarded are you?

	03-11-2004 21:33									#347
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by alva Says more about the US than about Kerry IMO.

I think it says more about Kerry... with so many people voting AGAINST Bush, Kerry still wasn't considered good enough by a majority to win

quote: In just ANY other country in the world he would would have won.

Your point... your leaders probably couldn't win either if another countries voters made the choice for you

	03-11-2004 21:33									#348
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight I'm really glad people like you exist sava. You are a perfect example to all of what the left really is. You prove once and for all that liberals have no substance other than to repeat the same catch phrases and lines over and over. Here's two thumbs up for helping us win the election. My thanks to Sava and people like sava everywhere.

I agree. I really hope Sava gets his wish as it would pretty much insure the Democrats NEVER win the Presidency.

	03-11-2004 21:33									#349
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: You need to step outside the cocoon, Ramo. I read plenty of analysis before the election, from both the left and the right, and I never detected the "common wisdom" you're talking about. In fact, I found most of your analysis here to be laughably optimistic...

I don't know who you read, nor do I care what you thought about my analysis. But I think most reputable pollsters underestimated the influence of 9/11, and that's reflected in how off their final predictions were.

	03-11-2004 21:33									#350
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Why did Kerry give up so soon? He theoretically could have won Ohio still... I don't get it. Well, with the new mandate Bush is going to go hog wild in Iraq... the best thing we can hope for at this point is a complete failure. Maybe then he'll get impeached or something, or resign who knows.

For the sake of the world, and Iraq, and the US, we must hope for success in Iraq.

	03-11-2004 21:33									#351
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hillary Clinton would likely get smoked in '08. If the Dems want to win another election, they need to pick someone who can actually get elected. I think SpencerH nailed it - she simply can't deliver enough EC votes.

	03-11-2004 21:33									#352
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Says alot about the world too. Thanks for helping us win the election with all your endorsements of Kerry.

Not my money mate.

	03-11-2004 21:33									#353
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn How retarded are you?

Enough with the personal crap...

	03-11-2004 21:34									#354
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ming Your point... your leaders probably couldn't win either if another countries voters made the choice for you

Absolutely brilliant come back.

	03-11-2004 21:34									#355
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by PLATO FOXNews.com reporting Kerry calling Bush to concede.

And the countdown to the invasion of Iran commences as nervous high school seniors register for the draft....

	03-11-2004 21:34									#356
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Why did Kerry give up so soon? He theoretically could have won Ohio still... I don't get it.

He couldnt have won Ohio.

	03-11-2004 21:35									#357
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: How retarded are you?

This is your response to my statement on redundant liberal phrases? And you people wonder why you are losing so bad. MY THANKS AGAIN!!! You make this so easy.

	03-11-2004 21:35									#358
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We have just learned that Kerry concedes to Bush.
A great line in a Queen song,
"WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS"

	03-11-2004 21:36									#359
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

BTW in the spirit of Savas remark about the Clintonians, how about a seperate Democrat recriminations thread? Hopefully with US Dems, not the gloatings of Republicans, and the snarky remarks of non-Americans.

	03-11-2004 21:36									#360
	Remove this text

quote: And the countdown to the invasion of Iran commences as nervous high school seniors register for the draft....

Well I guess they won't have to worry about a draft then since Bush won, seeing as how the only people pushing the bill for a draft were Democrats.