13-12-2004 08:31									#301
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You're right. They can even take one more city with a Tank.

With just Tanks:

From Logville they can take Camp David. From Camp David they can take Tiberium and Ahhmyfoot.

	13-12-2004 08:31									#302
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Aeson, are you thinking about possible settler escapes of Lego? Or about revenge, in that they load everything in their transports, and head our way?

DeepO

	13-12-2004 08:34									#303
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Ah, voila. Didn't even spot the Ahhmyfoot one. So, exactly enough settlers to take all empty cities except Castlea, build the harbor, rebuild Stanwix, and rebuild the harbor. Sometimes, Civ can be sweet (but don't ever tell that to Legoland)

DeepO

	13-12-2004 08:38									#304
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GoW can cut off all of Lego's troops in Abilene if they want to use Artillery to do so. From Ahhmyfoot 4 they can bombard Abilene 9, 6, and 63. Then from "nameless" they could bombard the rest of the Hills. They could even cut themselves off completely so Jackson and Dye Fields couldn't capture those Artillery.

It would open up some of their Artillery to Lego taking them back, but only if Lego basically abandons Dye Fields and Jackson to us next turn.

Not sure if it's worth it, but something to consider.

	13-12-2004 08:42									#305
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That was part of my thinking. 15 Transports full of what Lego has left could still be pretty devastating if they landed.

Since Lego doesn't have any Marines, and won't be able to build many, I think we are safe from Lego by themselves. We need a Spy in Vox though. If Vox hit us with Marines, then Lego follows up with Tanks/Settlers... I'm sure they'd love to be able to pull it off.

	13-12-2004 08:45									#306
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if we want to consider this, we've got to be extremely fast. At this moment, GoW is most likely ending their turn, having taken all the cities.

But let's think for a moment on the consequences: by keeping Lego from getting out of Abilene, we would be safe for all our leftover troops. It would save us ~30 tanks, and loads of slaves. However, it would also make it possible for GoW to keep the cities they take.... I'm not sure if I like that option.

Taking Jackson would be nice (certainly if we've got a road, so we can keep it with enough defenders), as would keeping Dye fields be.

Actually, does this mean we can have a road for sure? In that case, ti would make it worth it, most likely.

I'm going to check on this

DeepO

	13-12-2004 08:49									#307
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It doesn't mean we've got a road next turn for sure. Lego can still pillage surrounding tiles, and by capturing explorers can reach farther. So it won't mean we can get to Jackson next turn for certain... or at least not with what I see right now (but Aeson, better check. It's 5 am here)

DeepO

	13-12-2004 08:52									#308
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Lego building settlers is still possible, right now they've got the production needed, with no rushing or scrapping needed. And Castlea could build a settler for sure, as it is very hard to defend otherwise, even if Jackson more or less blocks access to it.

Vox opening a hole for Lego to get through. Yes... I can see something like that happening. But 15 tanks, a maximum of 19 next turn

Actually, forget that. 15 tanks. Period. They need rubber for tanks, right? Good luck in settlerblitzing with that!

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:01									#309
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I think it would be worthwhile to give MZ the heads-up on and let him make the decision. Play the good helpful ally for now. We aren't really going to want to keep much on Lego anyways, so if GoW does end up thinking they should keep everything, we aren't losing much, and are getting some insight into where things are headed at least.

	13-12-2004 09:11									#310
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Lego can definitely cut us off still, but not our Tanks already out there at least. They'd have to pretty much empty Jackson and Dye to kill our Tanks if Abilene were cut off.

I think this is the best move for us. We went all that way N in part to make sure GoW broke through. I'd hope they'd be willing to help protect our Tanks left exposed by doing so, especially given the Artillery they'd be using they captured because of those Tanks.

	13-12-2004 09:31									#311
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Yeah thought you were saying it as if you had gotten the final report or some feedback. IOW it had been done, not that it maybe or could be done. I see you were only thinking out loud.

	13-12-2004 09:32									#312
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Hum... I'm not completely convinced, Aeson. It's not the territory that I mind. It's Legopolis. 2 big wonders (okay, Bach doesn't help unless they relocate)... they might get tempted.

There can be said a lot for splitting Lego's territory, but it's only normal that at the end of a war, people start eyeing each other again. I'm pretty sure that in case GoW can take Dye, leaving us with Abilene to deal with, they will kind of say: hey, this is what we wanted, now handle things yourselves.

In the spirit of aliances, we should tell them, yes. If it's not too late already, of course, and the save hasn't been played by now.

Let me think about this for half an hour or so, if necessary, I contact MZ. I guess CH went to bed...

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:34									#313
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yeah thought you were saying it as if you had gotten the final report or some feedback. IOW it had been done, not that it maybe or could be done. I see you were only thinking out loud.

Well... it was the direct consequence of the report we did get, vmxa. Stanwix is gone... the road is open. In case GoW would not be able to chain cavs to Legoland, they would have told us. So, while maybe not fysically done yet, those cities can be considered destroyed.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:35									#314
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Did the city with Magelleans fall?

	13-12-2004 09:37									#315
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No, not yet. And I doubt that Jackson will fall. GoW is looking to consolidate their forces, instead of risking more. They seem to pity their losses, they have said a couple of times already it was the bloodiest battle fought. We lost more units on Bob, as I recall.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:38									#316
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Oh, and that nameless city is called horsefish.

Still thinking

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:39									#317
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If we keep our Tanks in the N and Lego can't reinforce from Abilene, we may be the ones taking Dye or Jackson. We can probably take both of them if we can connect up with the rail network and Abilene is cut off.

	13-12-2004 09:40									#318
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I am some what surprised that we have not gotten any msgs from Vox. They must already have the news.

Do we really think they will butt in now? What good will it do them or Lego? What is the point of having a body guard, if you have to defend them?

I know many feel we cannot trust GoW, but it seems like MZ would have to be a real hard case to actually attack us at this point or even help ND do it.

Maybe after the dust settles from the war, but not right now. I would admire is nerve and committment though.

	13-12-2004 09:43									#319
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Yeah, that's also on my mind. In case Lego does not cut us off, we would certainly be helped by this. Let's count how many units Lego need to cut us off, and if they would go for it. Abilene is still overdefended, the other cities are not. But Lego is not going to give them up that easily.

But it might also be clear that keeping us from recombining our troops and using our tanks freely on their RR network is prioirity #1 to Lego. Unless they want to go out with a bang, of course.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:44									#320
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MZ attacking us: you never know. Right now, they're still partying, we had a couple more days to think what to do next. But this might have been the plan all along. We definately are going to need to keep an eye on their troop movements.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:47									#321
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO They seem to pity their losses, they have said a couple of times already it was the bloodiest battle fought. We lost more units on Bob, as I recall. DeepO

I noticed that as well.


If we could take Dye without a taking a big hit, that would give us one of the spots we want. Then it would be eaier to offer the splitting DeepO suggested. A dye for all with RP moving into the city.

	13-12-2004 09:48									#322
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I count 3 units needed from Dye to cut us from the RR. Those can be tanks, all of them returning to Dye. We are not going to have a road next turn. no way

(1 tank captures 2 explorers (stupid mistake to put both on the same tile). 2 tanks pillages RR at NI 99 and 96 and return. 2 explorers pillage to roads, and return)

If Lego leaves that opportunity, they are planning something else for sure.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:48									#323
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It looks to me that they have 4 tiles they'd need to cut rails on. 5 Captures. So that means they'd need 13 "Attacks" to do it.

They could move 2 Tanks/Explorers onto each tile after clearing the units. Pillage with one, move it off to Jackson/Dye, then Pillage the other, jump it back to a flatland road, and move it off to Jackson/Dye. That uses up all their non-Infantry I think, meaning our Tanks wouldn't be hit. It also means that many of Lego's Tanks are another turn away from being healed up.

	13-12-2004 09:49									#324
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did we ever get a spy with GoW? I think that's a key, that they openly agreed to allow us to have that, that they weren't planning on attacking us soon. I am off on my timeline, was that before or after we mowed through lego to Stanwix?

	13-12-2004 09:52									#325
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We failed when we tried to plant a Spy with GoW. We did that early on hoping that we'd see if we needed to get to Stanwix with a bunch of Tanks or not.

	13-12-2004 09:52									#326
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson It looks to me that they have 4 tiles they'd need to cut rails on. 5 Captures. So that means they'd need 13 "Attacks" to do it.

Wow.. you're right, forgot about the forest. That is already RRed, of course, it was precisely the reason to take that tile!

Sorry, nearing 6 am... I'm getting fuzzy

quote: They could move 2 Tanks/Explorers onto each tile after clearing the units. Pillage with one, move it off to Jackson/Dye, then Pillage the other, jump it back to a flatland road, and move it off to Jackson/Dye. That uses up all their non-Infantry I think, meaning our Tanks wouldn't be hit. It also means that many of Lego's Tanks are another turn away from being healed up.

I'd rather have those tanks attacking ours. Do we know how many of those tanks are damaged? All of them?

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:55									#327
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okay, perhaps it is best to pillage the tiles, even if that means that GoW might be tempted to keep cities. If they would keep Legopolis, you can be sure all hell would break lose diplomatically anyway, we gave it to them!

so, let them decide. How to word it, is the next thing on my mind... I'll try a short message (a report, if you like )

DeepO

	13-12-2004 09:56									#328
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I don't know what the damage is like exactly. Following the battle reports is difficult because Lego doesn't note when Tanks are blitzing. Then to match up which ones were killed off by GoW.... ack. Mostly the damaged ones were not in Ft Stanwix though. There were 3 1/4s, 11 2/4s, 1 1/3 left after Lego's attack that I think comprise the majority of the Tanks Lego has left. The Tanks in Ft Stanwix were almost all 3-4 HP ones IIRC.

	13-12-2004 09:58									#329
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Oh, and 5 2/5s as well.

	13-12-2004 10:01									#330
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quote: MZ, a short message as CH probably went to bed by now (I'm not certain you're awake either). We might have found something... with your new artillery there is a possibility to cut Abilene of from the RR network. That will mean that you only have to fear the units in Dye and Jackson... but there are some disadvantages too. We are still looking into this, but as it would keep Lego from redistributing their defenders, and would keep them from taking out all our tanks in the open, it at least is worth the consideration. If you haven't played farther already, please look into this: quote: Originally posted by Aeson GoW can cut off all of Lego's troops in Abilene if they want to use Artillery to do so. From Ahhmyfoot 4 they can bombard Abilene 9, 6, and 63. Then from "nameless" they could bombard the rest of the Hills. They could even cut themselves off completely so Jackson and Dye Fields couldn't capture those Artillery. It would open up some of their Artillery to Lego taking them back, but only if Lego basically abandons Dye Fields and Jackson to us next turn. Not sure if it's worth it, but something to consider. As said, we don't know if it is going to help, but seems at least partly advantageous. So... some more food for your thoughts DeepO