13-12-2004 03:23									#241
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i just caught up: Holy Moses!!!

Un-friggin'-believable turn, guys!! I just *had* to be away on vacation with limited Internet access the last ten days... ... you couldn't wait for me?

Just masterful. Unbelievable. A ridiculously fantastically brilliant amount of work, strategizing, and play (>730 posts just in the two turn threads!). You guys are the greatest... truly.

	13-12-2004 03:27									#242
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Yeah - drafting Infs! We were very concerned about that but they didn't. Best not remind anyone about drafting seeing as Lego didn't use it.

	13-12-2004 03:32									#243
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VoX: I don't agree at all with MZ. No need to diplomatically push them, where currently we don't want to go in game. No threats, please! If Vox harbors Lego (by e.g. giving them a city), we attack Vox, no questions asked. Vox knows this, I'm sure.

Besides, Lego, coming down from the mightest empire (or at least that's how they still see themselves, they never were any modest about it, even if it was given to them by the RNG), to a settler, hiding in some other territory, or a 1-pop city, hidden in another territory? No way, they will not do that.

Further on the message:
Not attacking Jackson: sure, a possibility. We can understand that they don't want to lose all their troops, including those new arties. Let them build a city at Stanwix 9, and regain strength. With whatever is left of the attack, and some chained reinforcements, they will be ready for war again in 2 turns. It's just that in case they do want to attack a city, let it please be Jackson, and not Dye fields.

And his comment about Abilene: He seems to think we can easily take it. No way. This is going to be very bloody, and will take long. We need his artillery support, and our tanks to get this fortress down... this war is far from over. Lego can annoy us for a long time to come. Now, they only have a couple of points to defend, with a lot of defenders and a lot of our troops damaged or destroyed. This is a lot easier than trying to defend everything.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 03:35									#244
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Hey, welcome to the party, T!

Whatever happens now, we put on a show to change history, and got our sweet revenge on Lego (not that we're telling them that though).

	13-12-2004 03:43									#245
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If Gow knock them back to 3 cities, Lego can only sustain that army by going into anarchy. They'll lose pop to entertainers (no lux slider) and maybe dip below metro, and GoW bombers and our bombers if necessary can pound them to reduce further.

If they can stay in republic we bombard their tiles.

	13-12-2004 03:43									#246
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As long as you can, you avoid drafting, of course. But in this case, knowing the risks, it would have been obvious. 2 conscript infs in every city, and we couldn't have reached Legopolis, let alone attack Fort Stanwix.

BTW, there was a bit more info in Vondrack's post.
- They did see our transports as attackers too. So, they did see their own transports as attackers... which must mean that so far, they were out of position or would have been used (over on ND's side, perhaps?)

- He quite vigourously denied we could take Abilene. Now... with the marines, and 8 extra chained tanks, I think we could have taken it. For us, it was always the loss being too high for even trying, not the outright impossibility.
This means, that I don't think Lego has a precise idea what was in our transports. Seeing their mistake regarding chaining, that makes sense. But still I don't understand what they thought last turn, when we landed 8 marines out of position, together with a transport near it... where they thinking that transport carried these marines from Stormia on itself, in 2 turns? It could be (it kind of looked that way, but if that was the case you would turn around, instead of landing troops just like that). Didn't they see we landed more MI, than that we could have had on the first turn of embarking?

- He thought 2 fighters "were in the neighbourhood". That sounds to me, like they have not found Hub 2 yet (also quite strange, as you stumble into it easily enough) He is right that both fighters could have attacked the stack, but it would have exposed one CV so badly, it wasn't even an option. I'm going to look over the screenshots again, and will make sure that all sea they can't spot, is covered with black blocks... we might be giving away more info than we actually think.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 03:47									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus If Gow knock them back to 3 cities, Lego can only sustain that army by going into anarchy. They'll lose pop to entertainers (no lux slider) and maybe dip below metro, and GoW bombers and our bombers if necessary can pound them to reduce further.

What do you lose when you're running in the red, I thought it was 1 unit, and 1 building each turn.

Further, I don't think they will be running in the red just yet. I'm not sure, but I thought the last city you take, always has the biggest treasury. Every city beforehand gets a smaller percentage, leaving the last surviving cities more. We might need to check how much Lego has lost in gold from taking those 10 cities, but they could very well end with 200 gold in the kitty when all possible cities are taken. That's even enough to investigate NI, and still have enough to pay all units next turn.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 03:52									#248
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO VoX: I don't agree at all with MZ. No need to diplomatically push them, where currently we don't want to go in game. No threats, please! If Vox harbors Lego (by e.g. giving them a city), we attack Vox, no questions asked. Vox knows this, I'm sure. Besides, Lego, coming down from the mightest empire (or at least that's how they still see themselves, they never were any modest about it, even if it was given to them by the RNG), to a settler, hiding in some other territory, or a 1-pop city, hidden in another territory? No way, they will not do that. Further on the message: Not attacking Jackson: sure, a possibility. We can understand that they don't want to lose all their troops, including those new arties. Let them build a city at Stanwix 9, and regain strength. With whatever is left of the attack, and some chained reinforcements, they will be ready for war again in 2 turns. It's just that in case they do want to attack a city, let it please be Jackson, and not Dye fields. And his comment about Abilene: He seems to think we can easily take it. No way. This is going to be very bloody, and will take long. We need his artillery support, and our tanks to get this fortress down... this war is far from over. Lego can annoy us for a long time to come. Now, they only have a couple of points to defend, with a lot of defenders and a lot of our troops damaged or destroyed. This is a lot easier than trying to defend everything. DeepO

Message sent to MZ.

	13-12-2004 03:54									#249
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If ND investigated for GoW, we can find out what cash Lego have left.

	13-12-2004 03:59									#250
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If a support deficit means they only dribble away 1 unit per turn then we don't gain much from their bankrupcy. I was hoping their army would disappear into the night, but evidently not. At least we can stop their production.

	13-12-2004 04:04									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus If ND investigated for GoW, we can find out what cash Lego have left.

We can also do this by counting what they lost to us... I'll go over the report in a moment, just a few other things to read first.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 04:07									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus If a support deficit means they only dribble away 1 unit per turn then we don't gain much from their bankrupcy. I was hoping their army would disappear into the night, but evidently not. At least we can stop their production.

Well, I think I did see it mentioned here, during the Voxian conflict. nye was calculating something like that, if I'm not mistaken. At that time, we were thinking on outbuilding our income for one turn, as we were attacked overnight when our tech pace was still high, and we switched all and everything to units. But it never happened, as the gold inflow was just a bit better than upkeep, and we stayed alright.

In chieftain (which this game is set to to some bug in the first few turns, even if it shows regent when you open the save), I thought that you were even allowed to have one turn in the red, before any unit losses occur. Only the second turn, units start to disappear.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 04:27									#253
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Either way we cannot count on the loss of income to do much to reduce the troops. They will have to be killed or at least isolated.

If they are down to 3 cities and I sure hope they are, we could destroy all tile improvements, but the navy is a big danger to us, especially if it has any troops onboard.

We are surely going to lose a bunch of stranded units.

	13-12-2004 04:59									#254
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well, lets hope we're going to lose stranded units. The production advantage has changed dramatically. Right now, exchanging 1 of our units for one of Lego's is a good deal. So please, let them attack our tanks in the open, preferrably with infs

3 cities is not possible, I think, as Castlea is blocked by Jackson. so it will be 4. In that case, Lego might decide that Dyefields and Jackson are worth more than Abilene, and disband it them selves. A patch of land is easier to defend, than 1 city separated by a huge landmass from 3 others.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 05:13									#255
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If we attack Abiliene with full arty support (only) from GoW, then we stand an excellent chance of churning out a leader or two. Our tanks will chew up those red-lined infantries!

	13-12-2004 05:25									#256
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Yes, and as I said on the other thread, there are some interesting Wonders imminent.

	13-12-2004 05:26									#257
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Yeah, well... let's first of all make sure we get some kind of road out of NI next turn. And don't count on Abilene being the fortress it was this turn, when 2 or 3 other cities cry for defenders.

The problem with art support from GoW, is that it comes after our tanks can damage anything... by the time we get the turn again, all their units will have healed

DeepO

	13-12-2004 05:46									#258
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Lego's treasury (for the moment, don't post this info to MZ, CH. Maybe later if we want to find out how much they have at the beginning of Lego's turn)

1213 -44 -22 -33 -46 -46 -34 -35 -47 -47 -47 = 812 left.

We took little less than half their pop (I'm not sure if that's how it works), I'm guessing that in case GoW takes another 10 cities, Lego will have at least 400 gold left. They could even expose our spy

DeepO

	13-12-2004 05:51									#259
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO The problem with art support from GoW, is that it comes after our tanks can damage anything... by the time we get the turn again, all their units will have healed DeepO

Yeah, that caught out CoD and Python in the DG2. We found out the hard way. CoD slammed their horses into a Numid stack, losing a few but peeling off a bunch of HP - which all healed before Python could follow up.

	13-12-2004 05:53									#260
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CH, regarding Lego's treasury: in case ND has spied for GoW, could we for once get their screenshots? We have been giving all this info to GoW, and while in text a lot has returned, something simple as a screenshot from ND seems unreachable... I wouldn't mention it right now, but after they played their turn I would really want them. Unless ND is giving GoW the info without screenshots, of course.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 05:54									#261
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Hey guys, news from GoW coming ....

	13-12-2004 05:54									#262
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aha... I'm waiting!

DeepO

	13-12-2004 05:56									#263
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quote: Ok, replayed and written down. Curiously when I replayed it I got different - and better - results so I loaded it up again and then I got the initial results again, I guess I must have messed up something on that second try. The third try had the exact bombardment results as the first (which I had written down from the start) and Lego got a GL and we got through with 3 tanks remaining again. Here's the full report, save is still open I haven't even built the city yet (12:50pm, must eat something... getting sleepy) ----------------------------------------------- Battle of Fort Stanwix (Part III) The following report will be given in stages since the order in which our units attacked was extremely important so as to give us any decent chance of succeeding. Therefore each part is written with the logic behind every set of bombardments and attacks. Part I Fighter lure (and Jackson isolation) - Done by bombers which could not have reached Stanwix to lure a Lego figher (unknown position) which might later interfere with the bombing of Stanwix (secondary objective to begin isolating Jackson in case Stanwix attack fails). - Bomber bombs Jackson 9, improvement destroyed - Bomber bombs Jackson 9, improvement destroyed - Bomber bombs Jackson 8, failed - Bomber bombs Jackson 8, improvement destroyed Part II Bombarment of Ft. Stanwix by Artillery and then Bombers. Will be done until all 4/4 Infs are damaged and first 4/5 Inf appears. - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 3/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 3/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 3/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Artillery bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, shot down Fighter 2/3 (so much for luring...) - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 3/4 Part III First 4/5 Infantry appears, attacks by GoW 2/4 Infantry begin to soak up artillery bombardment and prevent promotion. - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/5 Inf, preliminary bombardment fails, defender wins with 2/5 Part IV First 3/4 Infantry appears, artillery bombardment continues. - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, fails - Bomber bombs 4/4 Inf, Inf down to 2/4 - Fighter bombs 4/4 Inf, fails Part V Artillery and bombers run out. Attacks continue with 2/4 Infantries to soak up Lego bombardments. - 2/4 Infantry attacks 3/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/4 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 3/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 3/5 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 1/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/5 Tank, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/5 Tank, preliminary bombard fails, defender wins with 3/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/5 Tank, preliminary bombard fails, defender wins with 2/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/5 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, attacker wins with 1/4 (-1 Inf) - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 1/4 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 2/4 - 2/4 Infantry attacks 2/4 Inf, preliminary bombard knocks 1 HP, defender wins with 3/5 Part VI All Lego bombardments are soaked up, attack begins with 4/4 Marines - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/5 Inf, attacker wins with 2/4 (-2 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, defender wins with 2/4 - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, defender wins with 1/4 - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 2/4 (-3 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 2/4 (-4 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 2/4 (-5 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 3/4 (-6 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 1/4 (-7 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Inf, attacker wins with 4/4 (-8 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Inf, attacker wins with 2/4 (-9 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Inf, attacker wins with 4/4 (-10 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/4 Tank, defender wins with 3/5 - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/5 Tank, defender wins with 2/5 - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/5 Tank, attacker wins with 2/4 (-1 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/5 Tank, attacker wins with 3/5 (-2 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 3/5 Tank, defender wins with 1/5 - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Tank, attacker wins with 2/4 (-3 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, defender wins with 2/5 - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/4 Tank, attacker wins with 3/4 (-4 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, attacker wins with 4/5 (-5 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, attacker wins with 2/4 (-6 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, attacker wins with 2/4 (-7 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, attacker wins with 3/5 (-8 Tank) - 4/4 Marine attacks 2/5 Tank, attacker wins with 2/4 (-9 Tank) Part VII First 3/3 Cavalry appears, attack begins with remaining 2/4 Infs - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/4 Cavalry, attacker wins with 2/5 (-1 Cav) - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/4 Cavalry, attacker wins with 1/4 (-2 Cav) - 2/4 Infantry attacks 4/4 Cavalry, attacker wins with 1/4 (-3 Cav) Part VIII First 1/4 Inf appears, attack resumes with 4HP Marines first, then 3HP Marines, and finally with Tanks (most HP first) - 4/4 Marine attacks 1/4 Inf, attacker wins with 1/4 (-11 Inf) - 4/4 Marine attacks 1/4 Inf, attacker wins with 4/4 (-12 Inf) - 3/3 Marine attacks 1/4 Inf, attacker wins with 2/3 (-13 Inf) - 3/3 Marine attacks 1/4 Inf, attacker wins with 3/4 (-14 Inf) - 3/5 Marine attacks 1/4 Tank, attacker wins with 2/5 (-10 Tank) - 3/4 Tank attacks 1/4 Tank, attacker wins with 1/4 (-11 Tank) - 2/4 Tank attacks 1/5 Tank, defender wins with 1/5 - 1/4 Tank attacks 1/5 Tank, attacker wins with 2/5 (-12 Tank) 14 Infantry, 12 Tanks, 3 Cavs destroyed, 29 Artilleries captured, 1 Great Leader hung by the balls and shot. Ft. Stanwix destroyed.

	13-12-2004 06:00									#264
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Are the bearded ladies in the GoW armaments factories spilling whiskers into the machine-tools, or are those Arty results OK? They look a bit lean to me. The Marines fared much better. (I wait to be corrected )

	13-12-2004 06:02									#265
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quote: I'm not sure how many Artilleries GS will be able to bring into the continent but we will have 80 bombardment units beginning next turn. Jackson should be the first city to get pummelled, after that we can concentrate on Abeline. Perhaps given our victory this turn we can afford to build only bombers for next turn and begin the bombardment ASAP, GoW can add 13 new bombers next turn to a city within range of Abeline for an attack with the 56 Artys on turn 1280 which should be enough to drop it to size 12 or less and you guys can attack with less casualties (By 1285 we could attack with 37 bombers + 56 Artys + Captured Jackson Artys which should turn Albeline into a size 1 city ).

	13-12-2004 06:03									#266
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quote: 14 Infantry, 12 Tanks, 3 Cavs destroyed, 29 Artilleries captured, 1 Great Leader hung by the balls and shot. Ft. Stanwix destroyed.

	13-12-2004 06:09									#267
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CH, tell him about the healing units in between turns... their bombardment is only going to help them, or they have to pummel units down to 1/4 and destroy the barracks.

Great victory, btw

Oh, and it seems they are thinking of capturing and keeping a city... forget it. They do not have the units to do that. They have to abandon everything! They might be best of to at least chain more inf to Legoland next turn, this war is not finished yet! (that doesn't mean they have to build new ones, they just have to chain them)

DeepO

	13-12-2004 06:11									#268
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Something else... I mentioned it here already, but GoW forgets it: Abilene is not necessarily going to be there next turn. Jackson, Dye fields and Castlea make better defendable cities for Lego.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 06:12									#269
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Hum... no, they don't think of capturing and holding a city, I was mistaken. They can build a new one with the leftover settlers, of course.

DeepO

	13-12-2004 06:13									#270
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Which means that their talking about rebasing their bombers next turn, attacking in 2 turns. By that time, I hope Abilene has fallen already

Oh, and you can tell them that we're not sure we're going to bring artillery or bombers to Legoland... we might need tanks more. To be decided at the start of next turn, as it has to follow from whatever Legoland does

DeepO