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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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RP report
Hi Togas,
Sorry that this took so long, but it has been extremely busy the past few days. You might want to know what happened... well... we took Legopolis. And 8 other cities as well. Plus, there is a very good chance that GoW is able to take another 10 cities, which will mean the Lego empire is reduced to 2 or 4 cities.
This success was not foreseen at all, Lego has been playing very well, countering all our moves. But we managed to slip through this time. From one hand, it is of course a joyful thing for us, from the other this is a very sad event, ripping through an empire which took 2 years to build.
First of all, let me give you a situation report, than discuss how this changes the world as we know it (not that we're even close to fathoming that).
The following has happened:
- Lego has pillaged all roads next to our stack including the settler. This was perfectly as expected. As a result, we can only threaten Abilene over land.
- Lego has razed Tipperary. No more threat there.
- Lego is blocking the naval access to Abilene, and Quanto. Both blockades are not perfect, in that we've got a good chance of breaking through if we chain arts to Legoland, and use our transports to attack 1/4 BBs or 1/4 DDs. It would however destroy most of our transport capability to get through, and there is no certain way of success.
- we still have a spy in Legoland, they did not expose him (whether they tried or not is unknown)
Legoland forces:
- 1 settler (one used for fort Stanwix, next to (former?) GoW stack)
- 17 worker (+3)
- 3 horsemen
- 2 explorer (+2 B)
- 6 Cavalry (-6)
- 94 infantry (+3)
- 62 artillery
- 27 Tanks (+0)
- 6 ironclad
- 15 transport
- 1 carrier
- 8 subs (-2)
- 8 DD (-1)
- 9 BB
- 2 fighter (+2 B)
- 3 bomber
- 1 army (!)
On GoW's side, this is what we could see in the beginning:
Fort Stanwix has one major strategic advantage: as long as it exists, GoW will not be able to build a city in the next tile. Which means that unless it is possible to take the city, GoW's tanks en route can't join the fight this turn.
We investigated Abilene:
troops:
- 1 army of 3 infs
- 50 infs
- 3 cavs
- 8 art
- 2 bombers.
We investigated Fort Stanwix:
troops:
- 4 2/5 T
- 2 3/5 T
- 3 4/5 T
- 1 3/4 T
- 2 1/4 T
- 20 I
- 29 art
- 3 Cav
We didn't trust the Fort Stanwix situation, and feared the GoW stack was too badly damaged to take the city. So, we decided to steal Lego's map (you will of course get that once you receive the save). It became clear that we could move through Lego's territory, and capture Legopolis. From there, we could attack Stanwix from behind, thus making it easier for GoW to break through.
Everything we could transport was moved, and just as well too. If we hadn't done that, GoW wouldn't have a chance of destroying Stanwix, meaning the invasion would have been over for GoW, and they would be forced to retreat, and regroup. Even now, it will be close.
Once GoW captures Stanwix, they can move through, and use chained cavs, and the same settler blitzing we used to capture most of Lego's cities. Only Abilene is sure to stand (it is now their capital), and the 2 defended cities Jackson and Dye fields as well. It might block the entrance to one final city, Castlea.
In case GoQ can't get Stanwix, Lego is still heavily damaged, and will lose a lot more cities next turn. They can't defend them, now that we can reach every single one of them.
quote:
Battle report turn 244: 1270 AD
1. DD stumbles into sub at Abilene 4444788 (name unknown). DD 1/4
Operation Watergrogged.
2. art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina? only looked after bombing). failed.
3. art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina). Tipperary 4/5
4. fighter bombs BB Jackson. Fighter fails.
5. 2/4 DD attacks BB Jackson. 2/4 DD destroyed. Jackson promoted to 2/5.
6. art bombs 4/5 BB Karina. Karina 2/5.
7. art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. fails
8. art bombs 4/5 Tiperrary. fails
9. art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 3/5
10. art bombs 3/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 2/5
11. art bombs 2/5 Karina. Karina 1/5.
12. transport attacks 2/5 BB Jackson. counter bombardment failed. Transport destroyed. Jackson 1/5
13. transport attacks 2/5 BB Tipperary. counter bombardment hits. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5
14. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5.
15. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5.
16. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5.
17. Transport attacks 2/5 BB Tipperary. Tipperary sunk. Transport promotes to 3/5
18. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Karina. Transport destroyed. Karina 1/5.
19. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Karina. Karina sunk. Transport 1/4.
20. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Jackson. Jackson sunk. Transport 1/4.
watergrogged totals:
9 bombardments, 5 hits totalling 6 hp. 10 attacks. 1 DD and 6 transports lost. Lego lost 3 BB.
21. Marine attacks Quanto Mechanico. 2/4 BB sunk. Bomber destroyed. Quanto Mechanico taken.
22. Marine captures explorer (1st sappers) at Quanto Mechanico 3.
23. Marine captures explorer (2nd sappers) at Quanto Mechanico 33.
24. Marine captures 3 workers (Ann was one of them, I think) at Quanto Mechanico 1.
25. Quanto Mechanico abandoned. We lost 2 transports (3/5 and 1/4).
26. New city created "Quanto 6"
27. Tank captures Nou Camp.
28. Tank captures Sandonorico
29. Tank captures Karina. (forbidden palace destroyed?)
30. Tank captures Oasis.
31. Abandoned Oasis.
32. New city built: Oasis 8.
33. Tank captures Farmerville.
34. Tank captures Forkmouth.
35. Farmerville abandoned.
36. New city built, "Farmer 8".
37. Tank captures Red Bricks. We control the Sistine Chapel.
38. Tank captures Tarzania.
39. Red Bricks abandoned.
40. New city built, "Red Bricks 8"
41. Tank captures Legopolis. Fighter destroyed. Smith's Trading company controlled. Bach's Cathedral controlled.
The (first) battle for Fort Stanwix
42. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4.
43. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4.
44. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank killed. Inf 1/4.
45. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4), inf 4/4.
46. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed, inf 1/4.
47. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 4/4.
48. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf promotes to 2/5.
49. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf 4/4.
50. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed, tank 3/4.
51. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Inf killed. Tank 3/4.
52. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf 2/4.
53. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 2/4.
54. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf promotes to 4/5.
55. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4.
56. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 2/4.
57. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 2/4.
Fort Stanwix total:
16 Tank attacks. 10 succesful defensive bombardments. 6 infs killed. 6 tanks killed.
58. MI captures settler at Leopolis 22.
59. Marine captures 3 workers at Legopolis 3
60. Marine captures 3 workers at Dye Fields 47
61. Marine captures 3 workers at Dye Fields 41
62. 3/4 Marine captures worker at Ahhmyfoot 7.
63. Forkmouth abandoned.
64. Sandonorico abandoned.
65. Tarzania abandoned.
66. Karina abandoned.
Grand total:
9 bombardments, 5 hits totalling 6 hp. 27 attacks. 4 retreats. 10 successfull defensive bombardments.
We lost 1 DD, 8 TR & 6 T.
Lego lost 4 BB, 1 sub, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 explorers, 13 workers, 1 settler, 9 cities.
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The screenshots to accompany that (these will end up in public, but won't be released until after VoX played its turn. Not that we think Vox is going to harm us, but they point out to ND that with only rushing 1 transport, they can take 8 cities (as they are undefended). We'd rather not have ND claiming all that gold, there should be something like 1000 g in those 8 cities.
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This has some serious implications to what will happen next. It doesn't seem that the war of attrition we were expecting, is going to happen. Sadly, that deminishes RP's role in this war to an extreme low, as you can imagine. Conqs are worthless, we don't even have good use for our own explorers (we pillaged 1 rubber resource to be sure, and that's it). Don't get us wrong, one of the reasons this has been made possible is because of your support, and we are gracious for that. If you hadn't been sending all that money over, we would never have made it (even up to now, we're always at the brink of bankrupcy). It's just that we would have loved to give you some action as well.
However, we haven't discussed anything with GoW either, and want to start on that very soon. Ideally, we want RP to take territory on Legoland, and colonize it. But that can't happen before we have some kind of deal with GoW... this happened all so suddenly, that no plan exists.
It also has other implications: now that we're no longer in a serious war for Legoland, we get into problems with our own defense. Stormia, and Spain are both in grave danger. We intend to bump up our defense asap, and suggest you do the same... part of this is going to be to return (part of) your ships to their harbors immediately! However, if we can negotiate a deal with Gow, in which RP is given territory on Legoland, that has to be defended as well... so the best advice we can give you know, is to either return part of your ships to Spain, and let a few continue to Legoland to possibly take territory later on (you still need 4 turns t oreach it), or to return all ships to Spain, and start sending out empty transports to set up a chain. You might also want to consider building a settler or so (in case you've got any settlers in your transports, continue these to Legoland).
Please don't land any troops on Legoland, before we can arrange something with GoW. It will take some convincing from our side, and very strict negotiated deals to let them see the light. I don't think they have forgotten the last war, so no need to provoke them.
DeepO
Last edited by DeepO on 11-12-2004 at 22:47
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Dominae
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From MZ's recent communication:
quote:
The last concern I have is Vox. We should make some sort of declaration that any sheltering of Lego inside Vox will be considered a declaration of war. In exchange we can perhaps offer Vox a few of the northern cities as compensation for their "collaboration". If not we can always just kill them afterward too (it's not like we have to act diplomatic to anyone by now
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An attempt to steer us away from a Diplo. victory?
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:17
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a bit premature, I'd think for such declarations. After next turn, maybe, if Abiline's garrison has been dispatched. But until then this wars not over.
It does seem like Zen might be playing us to be the bad guys against vox...
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
"Nobody says you are forced to completely railroad your territory, and use their ability to leave all your cities undefended. Think about that, before pointing any fingers at us for using settler blitzing, please."
DeepO, I think you wish you could take this one back now. |
There's only so much crap and whining you can take. Frankly I'm suprised no one else has spouted off about them. They screwed up, royally, and its cost them their shot at winning this game. What we did was available to any team. Hell, we are the team most likely snuffed out by such a move, we've contemplated the one-turn defeat here many moons ago.
All this talk of settler tricks and game mechanics is very insulting, IMHO to our team (speaking as someone who was absent during the recent turns). In my book we did nothing wrong. If lego would rather this be a game of pure numbers and not strategy, then maybe this game is not for them.
That said, I understand what they are feeling, at least the lesser members of lego, I don't understand what VonD feels.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
"Nobody says you are forced to completely railroad your territory, and use their ability to leave all your cities undefended. Think about that, before pointing any fingers at us for using settler blitzing, please."
DeepO, I think you wish you could take this one back now. |
I do. It didn't came out the way it was intended, and I'm not sure I can repair the damage. A pity, in otherwise agreeable communications. Even last night, I posted here that it was not time yet to discuss tactics, and still I got seduced into starting a discussion on this, leading to a very unfortunate outcry. I didn't want this.
I also just read where their problem is: they think those arties come from our transports. That is a mistake, but right now, I'm not going to point it out. They knew we were chaining units, as they have found our last chainer (a sub right next to a transport... that should be quite obvious). Or at least, they should have known that. They know we were still building marines after our fleet had left harbor. They know we used more settlers this turn, than we had after the massacre near Sando. All these things, and it doesn't occur to someone we have an active chaining line, able to send 8 arties over?
I'm sure as hell not going to bring this up right now. If they don't suspect we have a chain, after all the talk about chaining, they are still making a mistake. If so, they might not think that we're still using it... and we can use it next turn as well. No need to point out we've got constant reinforcements....
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
It's OK, I don't think we'll see any escalation from the Legonians. Ultimately they know their frustration is with the game design - or this loophole in it, than us. |
The only good thing that might come from this (as I'm confessing guilt here, I planned this another way but might have posted too quickly), is that Lego will also understand that we get emotional when it comes to calling us abusers of game mechanics. I do not want to be known like someone who only exploits shady game algorithms to win. I can get just as emotional about that, as Lego is about losing their whole empire. I can understand their anger, and it didn't really feel as a personal (to me or to the team) insult... which is why I regret so much that what I posted seemed like I lashed out. I just wanted to point out, that both parties 'abused' game mechanics. Without settlers, no invasion is possible into a RRed territory, or you need to have 4 or 5 times the units the defender has. In total, we brought nearly 3 times the units, yet Lego 'abuses' game mechanics to keep all, and every single city safe. I'm sorry, but that is just as cheesy, or exploitative as using settlers.
The stupid thing is: we could without any problems have brought 8 cavs, by getting the tech and saltpeter from GoW, switching builds, and chaining cavs to Legoland. (okay, in reality that would not have given us arties, but you get my point) Without any settler blitzing, Lego would have lost 9 cities (they now lost 10, so we had to let go of e.g. Forkmouth or Sando). They really are whining about anything, to find something to blame for their tremendous loss. We didn't need settlers.
But hey, let them whine for a moment, I can understand their disappointment. I do stay with my personal feeling that they have gambled, with possible large gains, but at high risks too. They didn't understand the hint I gave about token defenders (and I'm not going to point it out right now), but in case you see an invasion force coming with at least twice the amount of attackers as you've got defenders (and properly defended as well), you'd think that you do a quick calculation, and draft some infs. And keep them to keep your inner cities safe.
Oh well, this will undoubtedly be continued. I hope I did not made permanent damage because of one ill-chosen comment.
DeepO
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11-12-2004 21:56
). I wouldn't have mind if we had 20 tanks more to take, and captured them ourselves. Let's see how they react.
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