13-04-2005 01:31									#211
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I see your points Modo But we don't need to have a formal peace with Morgan do we? As long as we are formally at war, they will be afraid of our attack and continue to build expensive defensive units, slowing down their growth.

We can still take opportunity attacks on Morgan targets, damaging them further, but we wouldn't mount any real proper attacks. Of course, the Morgans wouldn't know of this

	13-04-2005 02:50									#212
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Signing peace makes us look good on the diplomacy side of things. Signing peace makes them less scared, and less prepared once we emerge on the other side of Yang (And I have the feeling that will be pretty quick.) Signing peace might give us some payments in return, even although this is not a strong effort.

The problem with targets of opportunity is, it only works until they get Doc:Air. After that even our experienced pilots will run into serious trouble every time they fly over the ocean. We could keep doing it, accepting the losses, but not with the current situation - Angels growing rapidly. We need to conserve our resources. I think Morgan will understand that it is in our mutual interest to end the war at the moment. I even suspect they will be ready to pay something for a guaranteed stop to the hostilities for a given time.

	13-04-2005 03:07									#213
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What Modo said - once morgan gets Doc Air, we will be hard pressed to maitain 2 fronts, which will considerably slow growth - both on popboom and conquest.

Plus Morgans are hardly stroingest rival now - can't popboom, no PTS, slow growth perspectives. Gaia and Angels are much more dangerous rivals IMO. no need to waste energy on something that does not give us anything.

	13-04-2005 03:26									#214
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Am I to take that the Junta will agree that I will propose a cessation of hostilities to the Morganites so that peace negotiations can be initiated? I don't think we can negotiate if we keep shooting their crawlers up.

	13-04-2005 03:49									#215
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I would say propose it in 3 turns after more damage has been done. For now make a first attempt to talk to them - only hinting we might be willing to stop hostilities. Later you can go and say: "Look, we are not attacking anymore. Now let us make it official."

	13-04-2005 04:17									#216
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Works for me.

Besides, we can always start shooting up their crawlers again if they get difficult

Who should I contact, though? Arginine? Jtsisyoda? That's the problem with no embassies. Maybe we should have a "Who's who in what faction" post stickied in the general forum, so that people have an idea on the nomenclature. Or, more appropriately, know who to contact on matters of diplomacy after a long break.

	13-04-2005 05:58									#217
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The Morgan Embassy is still active - you can post there and then e-mail to a few team members to say there's a diplo message waiting

	13-04-2005 06:22									#218
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Done - I made a new thread and almost, but not quite, made it look like I have been reinstated in my task after a falling out of some sort. I also strongly personified the possibility of peace talks ("I have not given up on finding a peaceful solution"). Perhaps this will ease the pain. It also binds it to my person so strongly that we have an easy way out.

	13-04-2005 16:34									#219
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great job Kassiopeia

I am learning a lot just by watching how you do diplomacy

	13-04-2005 18:47									#220
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and has brought a reply from Argenine:

quote: What is the significance of yourself being 'reinstated'? Does this simply mean that yourself, the Federation's expert on Morgan affairs and negotiations, has returned after a period of absence and would like to see what can be accomplished via talks or is there something I have misunderstood/misinterpreted?

maybe the "Morgan Wing" of the Junta is back in the ascendancy?

	14-04-2005 02:16									#221
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Hmm, it does look like arginine is buying it.

I think I'll reply something to the tune of "I am not at a liberty to discuss our internal matters, but your assessment of the situation is correct for the purposes of these negotiations. Yes, I would like to see what could be accomplished by our talks."

	15-04-2005 03:33									#222
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Hmmm, is it just me or is Vander Eudaimonics a sitting duck? I just looked at a screenshot and saw that the Morganites destroyed all roads to VE. Their reasoning is completely understandable, just doesn't this now mean that the Morganites are completely incapable of initiating probe or offensive actions against VE if we were to take it? Their only option would be an air attack, and if we have enough interceptors ready, we could repel that. What is the feasibility, in your opinion, of making VE a beach head now, and perhaps, after VE has been secured, try taking that 6-2-2 elite amphibious missle speeder over to red fungus resort and see if we can't take out the HGP?

	16-04-2005 11:18									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Hmmm, is it just me or is Vander Eudaimonics a sitting duck?

It is. The follow up move is in question, though. If Morgan gets Doc:Air, it will be hard to move farther. Like I said in the turn planning thread, I think we still should prepare to take the base. It costs us nothing to do so, and we can always divert to Yang in 3 turns.

	17-04-2005 18:15									#224
	Strategic planning for next 15 years Increase Your PM Length

Hello!
Though I don't post often, I visit everyday, rest assured!

I got confused these last weeks because it seems we lack a formal decision and long-term planning. It could well be just a feeling but we should commit to a clear course of action (that events could modify, of course!).

YANG: First, I have to sayI'm very pleased we are now at truce with Yang without having taken casualties. What I can't understand is why we would re-attack him by surprise and why people here think it'd be a cake-walk.
I understand that Yang is land-connected with the others and we could use that land to attack, but WE DON'T NEED IT! (see further!). Instead, a strong Hive acts as a buffer zone, and if we get in friendship with, he'll soon initiate a war with one of the others, Good!
The Hive has the more numerous military machine and soon will get jets. Just to occupy a few cities (let alone the Monsoon Jungle), we'll need to kill dozens of units. It'll take a lot of time for very little gain, and a surprise attack will infuriate Yang. Add to that that, while we'll be glued into a deadly war, the others could then backstab Yang and take more territory. They'll profit much more! We'll do the killing, they'll do the taking!!

I think we forgot what are our strenghts.
We've got D:I and D:AP. Let's put them to good use!
We hear that "when Morgan will ger D:AP, he'll do this and that". First, he's got to get it. Then to prototype it! Then to build an air force, and finally to still have enough minerals to support it!


MORGAN
I have studied the map and it seems Morgan is much more vulnerable that posts in the forum seems to indicate. He's almost on his knees!
First:

quote: But we don't need to have a formal peace with Morgan do we? As long as we are formally at war, they will be afraid of our attack and continue to build expensive defensive units, slowing down their growth.

(Snoddasmannen). I totally agree! All their bases are stuck building defence perimeters or all kinds of units. Why make peace? If we don't want to launch an attack, we just reposition our forces and they'll never know, still adding units to their burden.
But why make peace? The Angels are growing but don't seem to be a threat right now. Lal is none either. The Gaians have few cities and didn't react when we struck their mainland; Hell, they dîdn't even pop the 2 unity pods on their south. They are sleeping and are sure more afraid of Yang. I say we can attack Morgan and bring him where we want. Just choose: a) massive strikes leaving him crippled to agony. b) massive strikes with limited invasion (perhaps to force him to peace). c) total invasion!! Let's see the option:
--- Light option: Change Gythium Harbor to a sea colony pod, rush him with a crawler, and found a base on 42,14, just west of the bonus minerals in Buster Ocean. It'll give our jets with a range of ten a range to Morgan Transport!! 2/3 of Terrapeso! The base can be founded in 4 turns I think. Then , we send a maximum of planes and next turn: we destroy all his crawlers! Without them, he won't build anything! It's already very difficult for him, it seems! Without crawlers, I can't really see him building and supporting an air force.
---Light option plus: Arcadia University does the same and found a naval base on the other side of Terrapeso, allowing our jets to land there and to attack the other side the turn after!!
---Medium option: The light option (giving us air superiority) and we send an MAB (Marine Amphibious Brigade) to the north of Terrapeso. There are 4 bases that won't survive! They are size 1, so we won't have to worry about keeping them, and it won't be an atrocity: they'll be destroyed! Period! It's Paramiria (undefended), Morgan Interstellar (undefended), Yoda Soda (1 scout) and Morgan Mines (1 scout). With the jets and 2 rovers, we could destroy 1 base every 1-2 turns. These bases are one tile from the ocean. We can surprise landing anytime. And use the light option to supress every sensor or probe lurking. It'll be a very hard blow, even just to kill 2 small bases, as he'll have to massive military build when we continue routine air support and keep 2 rovers together. We'll keep him on tiptoe for long long turns.
---Heavy option: The Light option, of course, perhaps the medium one if we are unsure of the outcome (but we could let the northern cities grow to 2 if we want them alive! ), and now: D-Day!! It seems that, if we achieve total air support with the light option (planes can also destroy mines and forests of the bases buiding jet protiotypes when that comes), we have enough units to conquer Terrapeso! Immediately call back ourGaia TaskForce by the Hiverian Straits and make our Hive Task Force catch one or two more units in Minas Tirith or elsewhere, then sail to Terrapeso. As was said, Vander Eudaimonics is a sitting duck. By the time we invade, the naval base will be ready and we'll kill everything we see! And then, go rovers go... city after city! With all his crawlers out, I can't see him opposing much resistance! And if we can do that with our current forces, it means our cities can start building other things!

GAIANS
The Gaians seem feeble. They could be a target too! It could be a little more difficult as Gaialand is farther than Terrapeso, and we wouldn't be able to relocate forces easily in case of emergency. But what to gain? HEY! 1) We take out a human player who never liked us. 2) we gain good cities with facilities (I hope!) 3) The ability to strike Yang from South when the moment arrives. 4) For those who dream of boreholes, the builder's dream: we seize the Weather Paradigm!!!
It'll look like that: Map all coasts and even make land reconnaissance with our Gaia Task Force and its MAB! Try accesssing datalinks! Found a naval base in 69,67 (bonus minerals); such a base would have 4 gaian bases in jet range. Then relocate the bulk of our air force and bring a transport cruiser full of rovers!
I wouldn't recommand such an operation if we can't achieve separate peace with Morgan and don't want to stay at peace with Yang. But, in any case, if we don't choose to undertake a major operation next years, we can at least prepare with mapping, reco-landing (and popping the two pods, miam!) and prepare to send a naval colony pod.

Logics dictate us to use our strenghts! Doc Init gives us more naval moves and powerful ships. We don't fear much on the seas. And our aeronavale is so far unmatched. Even if no major operations are underway, we should build a few strongpoints, akin to St-Helens, Ascension Island, Aden, Gibraltar, Singapour,... in the days of the Britannic Empire. Gythium Harbor and Arcadia University (perhaps 2nuts Strand soon) would be the breeding cities for the pods.
And instead of fearing the others soon getting jets, let's use ours and our 10 years forward to eradicate at least one threat. With Morgan crushed, we wouldn't fear the Angels I bet!

Now speaks the Minister in charge of infrastructure:
AAAAAAAAARRGGHHHH!!!
You wanted a momentum strategy, you've got it! I showed we could follow it even further and be successful.
But we can also pursue it and start building an industrial basis.
11 of our 19 cities are in Stagnant Growth!! We need 2 formers in Arcadia and a small fleet of them in...Laconia (?). And then, begin with infrastructure!
I remind you that the treasury is now in deficit (-4/turn).
With the truce with Yang, Gaians forces in disarray and Morgan ready for invasion ( ), we could use the time to build facilities and emerge stronger after a few turns.
Question: why build Rec Commons in Sector Cratersouth? Next growth is in 17 turns and No raw materials!
Tegea Harbour is in dire hunger but build...a crawler!! When the city is surrounded by forests! It could use a tree farm.
Fort Liberty: why a crawler instead of a CDF to free the worker?
Arcadian cities are surrounded by forests, so they need tree farms.
Laconian ones need formers first. Then Rec Tanks and Creches and Tree farms.
If we launch Heavy Option again Morgan, we won't need to build Energy banks, just seize the PEG! Another incentive to start at once!

I'd say: rush build naval colony pods in Arcadia Univ. and Gythium Harbor, then turn to facilities and change them înto breeding cities. Change the others cities (now or at the end of their cycle of building) to formers for some and facilities for others. Use the more mineral productive (Fort Buster, Vladivostok) to build crawlers and help build facilities in other cities.

Research: how far are we from the Hunter-Seeker Algorythm? It seems it would be the best choice for our next SP. No worry to capture an enemy base, no worry for a moment against the Angels. Less burden on our production capacity.

I'd say we let fundamentalism and turn to Simple. Democracy would help popboom but -2 Support would be bad, and it wouldn't help us with Yang.

So! I let you now find the flaws in my reasoning.
In any case, I think we should now choose the strategic options for the next 15 years.
My vote would be a treaty with Yang and the Heavy option (to get cities, a land far from the others and the PEG and HGP).
I rejoice to read you.

	17-04-2005 18:49									#225
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Well, we will keep clobbering Morgan anyway, as we know when his planes arrive (infiltration). And, as said, we can gain a foothold easy. This means building the sea base is not necessary at all - we can use what we capture as airfields. What worries me are land reinforcements. It seems the careful upgrade policy has left us with few units avilable, except for cash. If we can muster a quick second transport of units to follow the first one, this might be worth a try.


Two problems, though.

The biggest problem are the Angels. We have no infiltration, so we hve no good knowledge of their potential. Yes, they have few bases, but may big ones. All we know is that they are growing at the moment, and growing pretty fast.

Second is Yang himself. He still hs units on our border, and he still could backstab us. So the plan to attack the Hive might be forced upon us.

	17-04-2005 19:08									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Two problems, though. The biggest problem are the Angels. We have no infiltration, so we hve no good knowledge of their potential. Yes, they have few bases, but may big ones. All we know is that they are growing at the moment, and growing pretty fast.

Here is our infiltration data on the Angels (via their pact with Lal) - # bases and size of each:

	17-04-2005 19:28									#227
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And here's our infiltration on the Gaians (courtesy of their pact with Morgan):

Attachment: 2167-gaian bases.gif
This has been downloaded 52 time(s).

	17-04-2005 20:58									#228
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Googlie, I can see the base sizes. What I need is unit count and % of important structures finished.

	18-04-2005 19:42									#229
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quote: YANG: First, I have to sayI'm very pleased we are now at truce with Yang without having taken casualties. What I can't understand is why we would re-attack him by surprise and why people here think it'd be a cake-walk.

Personally I would prefer a truce with Yang as well, but the problem is any truce with Yang probably can’t last long. Look at what happened this turn. Despite the truce he still continued marching his troops to Minas Tirith, and would surely sneak-attack us if we didn’t beat him to it.

Also personally I don’t think at all it would be cakewalk. However under the scenario that we could achieve peace with the Corporation, it would be better to use our existing forces against the Hive than to use them not at all. While gains would come slow, some would at least come.

quote: I understand that Yang is land-connected with the others and we could use that land to attack, but WE DON'T NEED IT! (see further!). Instead, a strong Hive acts as a buffer zone

Yep I agree. The sea is faster for us for invasions. Also since the Hive continent is central, while we could reach everyone fast, the opposite is true too: we could be infiltrated from all directions… So if we go conquer Hivean bases (because Yang breaks the truce), we should refrain from capturing all bases in sight asap (leave buffers as you say), but only capture them after we can set up a durable defense against the other human factions.

quote: We hear that "when Morgan will ger D:AP, he'll do this and that". First, he's got to get it. Then to prototype it! Then to build an air force, and finally to still have enough minerals to support it!

We can only guess when/if the Corporation will get DAP. We’ve had both a few victories and setbacks these years. On the plus side, Morgan and Gaia are in vendetta with Zak and Lal, Hive research has been delayed a year, and a Gator near a Hive base has been killed. Worse news: Angels don’t reply to our tech offers (among which a DAP trade embargo), Morgan can apparently speak to Yang, truce between Yang and the Weasels.

Should they get DAP, prototyping and building an air force won’t take long though. They can just cash in their crawlers. We already built up our air force very fast while we weren’t even desperate, so the Corporation will certainly be motivated to build one fast.

quote: I have studied the map and it seems Morgan is much more vulnerable that posts in the forum seems to indicate. He's almost on his knees!

Why do you think that?
His economy is still as large or somewhat larger than ours. See the general Covert Ops thread for concrete numbers.

quote: First: quote: But we don't need to have a formal peace with Morgan do we? As long as we are formally at war, they will be afraid of our attack and continue to build expensive defensive units, slowing down their growth.(Snoddasmannen). I totally agree! All their bases are stuck building defence perimeters or all kinds of units. Why make peace? If we don't want to launch an attack, we just reposition our forces and they'll never know, still adding units to their burden.

If the Corporation wouldn’t be anywhere in range of DAP, I would indeed agree just continuing to harass while leaving them in the dark is best.
However should we not at least take the possibility in consideration that they could get DAP, and start peace talks? If Morgan doesn’t seem to get DAP, and peace talks don’t go according to wish, we can always invade Vander Eudaimonics after all.

quote: But why make peace? The Angels are growing but don't seem to be a threat right now.

They aren’t a direct threat right now. But as you say they’re growing fast. So if we don’t focus on builder production and grow ourselves, they will become a major threat later.

quote: Then , we send a maximum of planes and next turn: we destroy all his crawlers! Without them, he won't build anything! It's already very difficult for him, it seems! Without crawlers, I can't really see him building and supporting an air force.

I had a look at the previous turn. The Corporate crawlers make up a fifth of their mineral production. However they’re also producing 250 energy. So they won’t be completely crippled simply by destroying their crawlers. (Nevertheless, we should shoot any in sight of course – every bit helps )


Btw, a more general note regarding the possible gains of invading Terrapeso. You say attacking the Hive would give us little gain for much effort. This in fact is even more true for the Corporation. While the Hive has rather large bases, meaning we’d still have decent-sized bases after conquest, the Corporation has size 3 bases at most. There would be little left after we were finished with them. There’s of course the HGP & PEG, but don’t forget we’re dealing with a human player here. If they see we’re overrunning them and getting near their secret projects, they might just obliterate their bases to prevent them falling in our hands.

Just to say that I think we shouldn’t invade Terrapeso with direct profit in mind. It’s only worth it if it would increase our overall position in the game. Would it? As said, our economy would hardly grow because of a full-scale invasion, while the Angel economy would continue growing. And while the Angels are currently nominally neutral, who knows that might change if we actually start conquering Terrapeso. Then we’ll once again be in the situation we were fifteen years ago: facing a faction stronger than us.

quote: 11 of our 19 cities are in Stagnant Growth!! We need 2 formers in Arcadia and a small fleet of them in...Laconia (?). And then, begin with infrastructure!

I fully agree! Problem is if you want to invade Terrapeso: This means we can’t expand our military anymore to invade the Corporation. And personally I doubt we have enough forces for the Heavy Option.

quote: Question: why build Rec Commons in Sector Cratersouth? Next growth is in 17 turns and No raw materials!

As you say, we’re not producing minerals there, so it doesn’t matter what production is set to.

quote: Tegea Harbour is in dire hunger but build...a crawler!! When the city is surrounded by forests! It could use a tree farm.

The current hunger will be solved this year. If we want to popboom, a tree farm is indeed best.

quote: Research: how far are we from the Hunter-Seeker Algorythm? It seems it would be the best choice for our next SP. No worry to capture an enemy base, no worry for a moment against the Angels. Less burden on our production capacity.

The HSA would indeed be great. After getting Cyberethics in three years, we’d still need three techs: Adaptive Doctrine, Advanced Military Algorithms and Pre-Sentient Algorithms. No idea when we could get those.

quote: I'd say we let fundamentalism and turn to Simple. Democracy would help popboom but -2 Support would be bad, and it wouldn't help us with Yang.

Fundamentalism makes all our commando units elite. Crucial for that extra movement point. So if we want to invade someone, Fundy is a must at the moment I think. We could of course in the future build our units with the “high morale” special ability. That way we could get elite units without Fundy.

Democratic is a must for popbooming, but as you say the support penalty is very bad for us, so better wait with that switch until we’re completely ready to start popbooming.

	19-04-2005 03:57									#230
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How much would it cost to upgrade all of our B-4's to B-6's? If we're having trouble dealing with Morgan, that could be something we could do with our money. We would just need to make sure that we protect our investments and try to limit our airforce losses. And perhaps we don't have to upgrade them all. We could just upgrade a few, or use those EC's to rushbuild B-6's instead of conventionally building B-4's.

We could also use those EC's to rush tree farms and children's creches. In fact, this is what I would prefer, now that I think about it. What we should do is start with bases that work a lot of forest tiles (Fort Superiority, for example) and bases that have good drone control already and don't have problems with nutrients. First, we rushbuild a tree farm and a childrens creche in those bases. Then we switch those bases back to military production. As we do that, we can wait until we accumulate another hefty sum of EC's, continuing to build aircraft. When we get another hefty sum, we switch another 5 bases or so over to treefarm and children's creche rushbuild production. We can even cash some crawlers for this. When we have about 10 bases ready for a pop-boom, I say we switch, pop boom with those bases to size 7, and then switch back. We can designate some bases that won't be switched off of military production at all during this time so that Morgan won't be let off the hook one instant. Sure, these bases will be "left behind" somewhat, but if we could get 10 pop-boomed bases, that would be more than the Angels have by far.

	19-04-2005 04:11									#231
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quote: Btw, a more general note regarding the possible gains of invading Terrapeso. You say attacking the Hive would give us little gain for much effort. This in fact is even more true for the Corporation. While the Hive has rather large bases, meaning we’d still have decent-sized bases after conquest, the Corporation has size 3 bases at most. There would be little left after we were finished with them. There’s of course the HGP & PEG, but don’t forget we’re dealing with a human player here. If they see we’re overrunning them and getting near their secret projects, they might just obliterate their bases to prevent them falling in our hands.

It seems to me that the main rationale for conquering Morgan was to remove the "yellow menace." If it turns out that we can mostly contain the Morganites, then I suppose we can let them fester and duke it out with Yang a bit, and focus on pop-booming ourselves. Of course, we can keep a little bit of military production going, especially F-6's, but we can be fairly confident that Morgan lacks all offensive capabilities whatsoever against us, aside from air attacks, and these can be contained. Thus, perhaps we should begin that popbooming business right away. What will we need? Tree farms, children's creches, and rec commons?

	19-04-2005 04:18									#232
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Let's make some babies

	19-04-2005 05:14									#233
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Zeiter looks at his voluptuous secretary, unzips his military uniform, and sighs, "It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it..."

	19-04-2005 08:35									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter How much would it cost to upgrade all of our B-4's to B-6's? If we're having trouble dealing with Morgan, that could be something we could do with our money. We would just need to make sure that we protect our investments and try to limit our airforce losses. And perhaps we don't have to upgrade them all. We could just upgrade a few, or use those EC's to rushbuild B-6's instead of conventionally building B-4's.

It costs 60 per to upgrade (and as we have 9 B-4's it'd cost 540 for a mass upgrade)

quote: We could also use those EC's to rush tree farms and children's creches. In fact, this is what I would prefer, now that I think about it. What we should do is start with bases that work a lot of forest tiles (Fort Superiority, for example) and bases that have good drone control already and don't have problems with nutrients. First, we rushbuild a tree farm and a childrens creche in those bases. Then we switch those bases back to military production. As we do that, we can wait until we accumulate another hefty sum of EC's, continuing to build aircraft. When we get another hefty sum, we switch another 5 bases or so over to treefarm and children's creche rushbuild production. We can even cash some crawlers for this. When we have about 10 bases ready for a pop-boom, I say we switch, pop boom with those bases to size 7, and then switch back. We can designate some bases that won't be switched off of military production at all during this time so that Morgan won't be let off the hook one instant. Sure, these bases will be "left behind" somewhat, but if we could get 10 pop-boomed bases, that would be more than the Angels have by far.

I think this is a do-able strategy.

Candidate bases would be:

• Arcadia University (currently size 4, has a creche and a holotheater.) Give it a tree farm and a rec commons and it should easily get to size 7 with Dem/Planned
  
• Fort Superiority (currently 6. Has a Creche, rec commons and a holotheater)
  
• Gythium Harbour (Currently size 4 - has a rec commons. Also has 4 unworked 2-nut tiles in its base radius)
  
• Rio Grande (currently 3, has a network node. Also has 2 unworked 2-nut tiles, but as well, 2 rolling/moist but fungussed, and 1 river fungus tile that could be juicy if farmed or forested)
  
• Santiago Citadel (currently size 4, has a rec commons and 4 juicy 2-nut tiles in its radius)

	19-04-2005 10:34									#235
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Fort Sup can build a Tree Farm, and I say it should. It is far more efficient not to rush in such mineral-rich bases. Adding two MPs with Non-Lethal Methods would let it grow to what size exactly? Something like 8 clear of any riots and 9 making the last citizen a Talent.

	19-04-2005 10:53									#236
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Well, it can't grow beyond size 7 without having a hab complex

The rec commons tames 2 drones, and the holotheater another 2. Sparta's +1 POLICE means that we can use 2 units for policing, and if they are CDF's, then they control 4 drones.

So with a Hab Complex and 2 CDF's we could get to size 8 before we'd need specialists (or any psych allocation, and of course, a Tree farm increases the value of any Psych allocation by 50%, so we'd prolly get to size 9 at least with a modest 10% Psych allocation in the sliders

	19-04-2005 11:13									#237
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For now, just going to 7 without the need to crawl in food seems worth the investment. We can always see what is possible and needed once the Tree Farm is up. I would still see a Hab complex there in the long run.

	19-04-2005 15:15									#238
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Hab complexes need to be some of the last things that we build in our bases as far as infrastructure, and then only when the base has the capability of pop-booming to size 10 or so without a hitch. The maintenance and build costs are just too much otherwise. So I'm guessing that it will be a bit before we can build hab complexes and make them truly useful.

	19-04-2005 16:57									#239
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I am talking exclusively about Fort Superiority. It is able to make 8 citizens content already, meaning 9 if the last one becomes a Talent, and 10 with a Research Hospital. With a Tree Farm, it will have enough food to get there rather quickly. If it stays at size 7, we should give it two MPs and sell the Rec. Commons or the Hologram Theatre, as they will be useless!

	19-04-2005 20:20									#240
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Don't forget about crawler-hurrying. With that we can rushbuild our infrastructure without the need for oodles of credits.

Eg there are two crawlers near Fort Soup just harvesting forests (only 2 mins). We could cash those in at FS to get a tree farm by MY 2170 (or MY 2169 if we also throw some cash at it).

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 If it stays at size 7, we should give it two MPs and sell the Rec. Commons or the Hologram Theatre, as they will be useless!

Be careful about scrapping facilities! You never know when they might become useful. Eg Fort Soup had a hab complex, but it was scrapped as it was deemed not to useful (and of course because we urgently needed cash to execute the PTS raid). Now of course we'd have liked there to be a Hab Complex in FS.