16-03-2005 16:08									#211
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Republic or Monarchy!

The great debate.

	16-03-2005 16:26									#212
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I will inform the Babylonians of the bad news.

	16-03-2005 16:27									#213
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I vote for Republic.

	16-03-2005 16:36									#214
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For what reasons? i think Monarchy will be better - it allows us to wage war without happyness issues, and it allows us to support a large number of units for free. If a serious war starts, we are going to be crippled under Republic.

	16-03-2005 16:45									#215
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Then how about waiting to see if we have iron before deciding? If we can build immortals then let's go for Monarchy and start our reign of terror. If we can't get iron quickly then let's go for Republic so we get extra trade and a faster tech rate.

	16-03-2005 16:56									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Masuro Then how about waiting to see if we have iron before deciding? If we can build immortals then let's go for Monarchy and start our reign of terror. If we can't get iron quickly then let's go for Republic so we get extra trade and a faster tech rate.

Good point. However, given that republic will take us longer to reach than Monarchy, I still favour heading in that direction. Also, we should consider that the other tribes will be following the philosophy line for a free stab at republic, a race we cannot win. By going down a route others are less likely to tread, we may gain good trading techs.

	16-03-2005 20:53									#217
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Monarchy is worse than Despotism when it comes to unit support. Might as well just kill people while in Despotism then switch to Republic when our economy can handle it. Monarchy is probably the most useless government in the game.

	16-03-2005 22:49									#218
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i think you're exadurating, trip. but republic is definatly far more powerful in PBEM. as it's unlikely and usually the game does not last long enough to switch twice.

see my post above for my reasons pro republic and contra monarchy. and that is independent of iron or not

	16-03-2005 22:56									#219
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I've never once used Monarchy outside of a game where I've just been screwing around or in a scenario.

	17-03-2005 17:59									#220
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Turn played. Not much to report, except the Euphoriscans being a pain in the arse, with their Archer preventing our Warrior to continue westward

	17-03-2005 18:04									#221
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Screenie attached. Comments please

Attachment: evedestruction 3300bcb.jpg
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	17-03-2005 18:35									#222
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Ours is a beautiful land, is it not?

	17-03-2005 19:54									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Masuro Ours is a beautiful land, is it not?

What drugs do they give you in Korea mate?

	17-03-2005 20:00									#224
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It's not drugs, man; it's a natural kimchi high~~~~

	17-03-2005 20:40									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Masuro It's not drugs, man; it's a natural kimchi high~~~~

Ah, so that's what they call it in Korea, huh?

	18-03-2005 03:36									#226
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Ya gotta fool the fuzz, man . . . .

	18-03-2005 04:16									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Monarchy is worse than Despotism when it comes to unit support. Might as well just kill people while in Despotism then switch to Republic when our economy can handle it. Monarchy is probably the most useless government in the game.

But it's MUCH better than Republic, and thats the debate.. All the extra trade from republic will just be eaten up by the lux slider and unit support. If we field a large army, and I think we'll have to, republic will cripple us.

In iron civ C, what was the first civ to fall? the only republic! We are the Desolation Row, we are nasty war waging killers, - expect when we find no defenders - and Monarchy is the way forward..

Remember that a smart opponent will NEVER let a republic out of a war, so the WW will kill them. So anything we start could be a fight to the finish, and those get nasty. Total unit production, support costs, WW, lux slider.. Monarchy is a safer bet on all fronts.

Anarchy, Feudalism and Facism are the most useless goverments in the game, btw.

	18-03-2005 04:28									#228
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That's quite a convincing argument. I agree to monarchy, not republic.

	18-03-2005 05:29									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars But it's MUCH better than Republic, and thats the debate..

I think the debate is over what is our best option. Despotism > Monarchy > Republic.

Unit support for Monarchy is less than Despotism unless you have scads of 7+ cities.

War in Despotism, peace in Republic.

	18-03-2005 06:17									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars But it's MUCH better than Republic, and thats the debate..

Meaning, you believe Despotism is better than Republic?

quote: In iron civ C, what was the first civ to fall? the only republic!

No, the first civ to fall was the one who lucked out with an early SGL and built the Pyramids, then tried to extort techs from you, you didn't like it and got the other 2 into a 3-on-1 dogpile against him. I don't think it had much to do with his choice of Government

quote: We are the Desolation Row, we are nasty war waging killers

Yeh, right. First chance we get and we act like pussies.

quote: Remember that a smart opponent will NEVER let a republic out of a war....

True, but....

quote: ...so the WW will kill them.

Not necessarily. With careful play and good luxury planning, WW in Republic can be controlled fairly easily, especially with cities at size 8 or lower. I can't recall ever having a significant WW problem that I couldn't control in a PBEM game.

quote: Anarchy, Feudalism and Facism are the most useless goverments in the game, btw.

True, but that's irrelevant to this argument...and anarchy can hardly be considered a government!

	21-03-2005 12:40									#231
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Back to the game: I played 3200BC today at lunchtime, since I had to pop home and found it waiting there. No time to ask for direction or take screenies, but since there wasn't much to talk about I didn't think it was a big deal.

I completed the Wheel/Alphabet trade, and then offered the Wheel to both Babylon and the Lost Boys. Hopefully neither of them have met Euphoricans yet

Our Forest chop in the capital is complete, and the Granary has 6 turns to go IIRC. Our Warrior north continues to explore around Euphorican lands. The Warrior south is exploring around Lost Boys lands. I have moved another Warrior to start exploring due west from Aquarius. We will have Iron Working shortly and need to have as much of the nearby land uncovered to determine whether we have a nearby Iron resource.

Other than that, not much to report. Next turn I believe there will be some tweaking of Labourers so as not to waste food as towns grow from size 2 to size 3. We seem to have fallen behind in some of the important demographics, but that's probably because other teams have already built their first Settler instead of a Granary, which means we will catch up over time.

We might want to start thinking about our second Granary soon - Aquarius would be the place, since we have a Barracks under construction in Sweet Desolation.

I suggest we take stock next turn - I'll post a screenie and we can chat about it then.

	21-03-2005 12:48									#232
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As for Government, the ideal situation is to have another form of Government by the time our GA starts.

Assuming we find and connect a source of Iron, I would think that we'd be wanting to start churning out Immortals once we have about 6 towns.

We would then be wanting to use our supreme weapon on someone close by pretty quickly, while they remain vastly superior to other defenders. Euphoricans are the logical choice, since they will only have Spears. Lost Boys are playing Carthage, so will have Mercs.

I would doubt that we will be close enough to another form of Government (be it either Monarchy or Republic) by the time we want to go bash some heads. We will therefore suffer a Despotic GA. But there are worse things in life

After we have crushed out 2 closest neighbours we will be looking for a sustained period of expansion and growth.

Republic has my vote for that by a country mile!

	21-03-2005 18:32									#233
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I think we could make monarchy before our GA, but republic will take longer.

	22-03-2005 22:14									#234
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Ok lads, 3150BC played. The Blood Oath Horde have found us with their Scout. I've moved a couple of Warriors out to greet him Do we want to give him a quick and painless death if we can?

IW in 1 turn, slider moved down. Oh look, we've got Horsies right next to Aquarius....what nice luck

Opinions please on direction of exploration. The Warriors North and South so far have been scoping out the borders of Euphoricans and Lost Boys, and will continue to do so unless someone comes up with a better idea.

Granary in 5, and I've now switched Aquarius to a Granary too (though the screenie doesn't show it). Comments please.

Attachment: evedestruction 3150bca.jpg
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	22-03-2005 22:15									#235
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...and the south....

Hey, what tech should we research next? Mysticism? Writing?

Attachment: evedestruction 3150bcb.jpg
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	22-03-2005 22:17									#236
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Should we kill that Lost Boys Worker?

	23-03-2005 03:11									#237
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i say no. because if we were too feeble to take an undefended city and give a huge blow to another civ, it's definately not worth making someone angry because of a stupid scout.

but as usual, i'm sure that moonbars and aqua don't agree with me

	23-03-2005 03:58									#238
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not on this occasion

	23-03-2005 05:14									#239
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I'll agree to anything you say Sabre, if you don't attack me in FUMBLE

	23-03-2005 05:28									#240
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I agree with Sabrewolf; if we weren't willing to take an undefended city then attacking a scout or worker for no gain is pointless.