11-03-2005 09:47									#181
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I guess we could start building Warriors for later upgrade to Immortals, though the upgrade cost at this early stage is almost prohibitive.

Archers are also nice for their occasionally effective defensive bombardment.

	12-03-2005 07:53									#182
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You're right. I don't think a wholesale mass upgrade is very viable, at 90 gold per upgrade (somebody correct me if that's wrong), but we should have enough on hand when we hook up the iron to make their presence known with a click.

Looking ahead a bit, if we're not involved in a conflict, or don't have one immediately imminent, what do you think about delaying the upgrades until the last possible turn (backward scheduling it so it doesn't delay any action, obviously)? This would keep the other teams from suddenly seeing us jump up in strength on the F3 screen. Not that big a deal, and the situation when we get iron hooked up may make it irrelevant, but something to think about in the meantime.

	12-03-2005 14:02									#183
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All sounds possible.

Of course, the situation may change drastically when we discover that we have no nearby Iron source and are forced to build a horde of Archers to take a source from somebody else

	12-03-2005 17:17									#184
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I think the comment that another team may press matters before we can attack them with immortals is a very valid one.

I was also going to make the point about archers being good on defence, and having an offensive option, especially an offenseive option they might not be able to see, is a very good one.

So, are we agreed there will be no attack on the Northerners?

Are we agreed on a Barracks in Sweet Desolation?

Are we agreed that that city should then produce units, and that some or all of those units should be Archers?

	13-03-2005 07:04									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars So, are we agreed there will be no attack on the Northerners?

But what if we find the town completely, utterly and hopelessly undefended?

	13-03-2005 15:06									#186
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Trip summed it up best - we have no army, no barracks and nothing to gain. We also risk making enemies that will houd us to the end.

	13-03-2005 16:54									#187
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i still favour the desolation way of playing. it's the wrong time to ***** out, even if we don't have more units than the others...

	13-03-2005 17:05									#188
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it's not that we don't have more units than the others, it's that we don't have *any* units..

	13-03-2005 17:11									#189
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I think they have less units than we do, if they are building cities with no defences.

	13-03-2005 17:27									#190
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it is odd. Have they seen the save yet? I was expecting some kind of protest out of them.

I would like to see one of the pro-attack people produce a plan of what we will do next, and what I am expected to tell the enemy. If the plan is convincing, I'd be prepared to put aside my own feelings that an attack at this stage gains us nothing and potentially hurts us a great deal.

	13-03-2005 20:06									#191
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If we attacked, it would be several turns until they would be in a position to send any units in retaliation, at best. Then it would take about 7 or 8 turns (maybe more) for them to arrive. That gives us plenty of time to build Archers and Spears.

I don't think they would risk a counter-attack. They would call out to other teams to ally with them against the aggressors. At this early stage, I don't believe any other teams would be interested.

	13-03-2005 20:19									#192
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And we can ask the team to the south to ally with us. Perhaps we could offer them something in return for their assistance?

	14-03-2005 08:58									#193
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I've had a look at the new save. I suggest we take the city this turn because the enemy now have an archer ready to enter the city. Even if we lose the warrior to the archer next turn, the enemy's loss of production will still leave us far ahead in the long run.
Also, there is a barbarian just above our worker. I say we put a warrior on our worker and fortify. Attacking the barbarian in the forest is risky.

	14-03-2005 11:31									#194
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I urge restraint. Attacking the city is foolish, doubley foolish if we'll suffer the loss of the warrior, and the risk of promoting the archer to vet, when we have only a handful of reg. warriors to defend ourselves with. We can't even deal with a lone conscript barbarian warrior in a forest, how does the Desolate Militray intend to deal with a full civilization with archers and spearmen?

	14-03-2005 11:32									#195
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Since this is a democracy game, let's put it to a vote. I will follow the wishes of the majority.

I vote for attack.

	14-03-2005 12:03									#196
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I vote against.

	14-03-2005 12:31									#197
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Moonbars - have you had any diplomatic exchanges with them this turn? I'm surprised they haven't begged us to refrain

	14-03-2005 13:46									#198
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no.

With the Archer, i think they are saying "We are not as helpless as our stupidly defenceless city makes us seem."

I suspect they are calling out bluff, and nto sending a message makes them appear stronger.

	14-03-2005 17:38									#199
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1 for and 1 against - we need more input here people..

Mcmeadows has asked me what our intentions are. i am not sure what to say, becuase frankly I cannot see from the above what those might be. We decided against attack, but aqua took action by crossing the border, and now we have a vote on entering their city.

I do not want to lie to the enemy, so will stall until the vote is resolved.

	14-03-2005 18:29									#200
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While I am of a mind to throw caution to the wind and attack out of pure malice (largely to retain our evil image), the Desolation Row is after all a democracy.

I have tried on several occasions to whip up a frenzy of enthusiasm for rape and plunder on this occasion, and have failed to achieve sufficient support from our ministers.

I therefore believe it is appropriate for us to seek a peaceful way out, and withdraw from their territory.

I therefore formally cast my vote against attack, as the statesman I am (or aspire to be )

	14-03-2005 18:55									#201
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I will bow to the will of the majority and agree to withdrawing.

	14-03-2005 21:22									#202
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you all know my favourite choice: f'em

	14-03-2005 21:24									#203
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what, not blackmail them first?

*just kidding*

	14-03-2005 21:36									#204
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I think it's obvious where my chips lie.

	15-03-2005 06:06									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars what, not blackmail them first? *just kidding*

Ouch

Glad to see you guys are still keen to bury the hatchet....in each other's back

	15-03-2005 08:29									#206
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A quick update - no screenshot available since I'm at work.

The Lost Boys offered us Alphabet (5), and I offered up WC (3) and BW (3) in return. As Moonbars quite correctly pointed out, this may not be such a good idea since they may be our first target and both techs we offered are military techs. Still, they'll get them sooner or later anyway.

Our Warrior up north continued southwards instead of razing the Euphoriscan town, and will soon continue exploring to the north-west of their lands. I regret not punishing them for their foolish lack of attention to defence, but it's too late now In any case, they shall be crushed by Immortals.

Our revitalised Vet Warrior popped the hut and received Ceremonial Burial as a reward - yippee! This will enable us to swap one of the techs to be traded with the Lost boys for CB - next turn.

A Granary is now being built. I think next turn we should swap one of the other towns to a Barracks. Our military is probably sufficient for the time being, though a Spear might be handy to oscillate between towns for MP and defence.

Once we have Iron Working, I recommend we beeline to Monarchy.

	16-03-2005 04:12									#207
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Agree on Monarchy Beeline.
Agree on granary/barracks. suggest Sweet Desolation is out Unit City

	16-03-2005 05:21									#208
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i personally think that republic makes more sence. monarchy may have no WW, but that is seldom a problem in PBEMs. and wir republic you get the extra trades for every single worked tile which will come in handy for our scientific civ.

	16-03-2005 11:34									#209
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We met Babylon this turn.

Suggest moving 2workers at inner sanc to chop the forest on the river.
Attack barb inside our borders before he pillages the road!

Northern Warrior moves south

Vet warrior should stay clear of that barb on the mountain?

Switch sweet desolation from spear to barracks?

	16-03-2005 15:08									#210
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Lost Boys suddenly have WC and CB, so I accepted their offer of Alphabet for our BW.

Babylon offered Alphabet also, but we already accepted it from Lost Boys.....besides which, we had nothing to offer that they didn't have already.

Barb Warrior in our territory killed.

Northern Warrior moved south out of Euphorican territory.

Other Warrior moved towards our territory, still next to Barb but hugging the mountains.

1 Worker moved to Forest for chop, another moved to rivered BG for roading.

Sweet Desolation switched to Barracks.

In summary.....concurred with Moonbars' recommendations except for Worker movements.