30-05-2005 15:45									#151
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

indeed, have sent the question.

Paddy (08:42 PM) :
When you get the two workers, can you let us know if they count as "normal" workers again?
in regards to unit-upkeep and worker efficiency.
thank you :-)

ormuzd (08:43 PM) :
alright
Paddy (08:43 PM) :
tx
ormuzd (08:43 PM) :
but I think they should

	31-05-2005 04:15									#152
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think we should at some point in the future exchange all our workers for all AM workers to spare the both nations of upkeep troubles.

	31-05-2005 04:36									#153
	Re: Chat with Ormuzd - May 30 Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot ... Ormuzd (06:07 PM) : out of curiosity why do you need so big capital? Paddy(06:08 PM) : big? Ormuzd (06:08 PM) : is it eally necessary? population 8 Paddy(06:08 PM) : ahhh 8 Ormuzd (06:08 PM) : I think you have joined a worker there even Paddy(06:08 PM) : good unit production Ormuzd (06:08 PM) : it is not growing already Paddy(06:08 PM) : yes have you had the save in the last few hours? Ormuzd (06:10 PM) : two hours ago - not Paddy(06:10 PM) : ok ...

Dear curious ormuzd.

	31-05-2005 04:39									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

On a more serious note, this is the first time anyone enquired about our capital. They obviously suspect nothing. They didn't even check to see if we're building a wonder.


And soon it will be too late to do anything about it.

	18-07-2005 05:47									#155
	Just in from Krill :) Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Krill says:
Paddy, are you there?
Krill says:
This is just a quick call.
Krill says:
LB recently emailed me and orm, and he said that we are going to attack the Horde.
Krill says:
And that is news to me.
Krill says:
This is probably a result of the chat with Babylon, and them twisting our words, but I thought I should ask you if you have had any diplo contact with LB recently
Krill says:
and it shows that everyone thinks we hate you

	18-07-2005 05:55									#156
	Horde / AM Military Council Enter the AD-FREE zone

ormuzd says:
hello
Krill says:
Hi Orm
Krill says:
feel better?
Paddy says:
hello
Krill says:
Paddy, first thiings first, I just sent IC2 to you
Krill says:
you might want to get it out of theway
Paddy says:
yes, and I also finishing anotyer
Krill says:
ya, I played Tarzan as well, and as much as I would like to accept you offer, I have absolutely nothing that you don't have
Krill says:
I'm barely at break even at 100% tax
Paddy says:
gold
Paddy says:
oh
Paddy says:
I will give you something - your people miss you
Krill says:
I can give you 2 gpt
Krill says:
;p
Paddy says:
we need to discuss all that later
Krill says:
yes, I agree
Krill says:
I red you email earlier today, when I a was awake.
Krill says:
The only thing that was missing, the only other thing that completely have proven your point about the bards, is the screenie of those swords spear and cats
Paddy says:
that be mine
ormuzd says:
the attack was sneaky, no matter what you say
Paddy says:
there is actually more info as well
Paddy says:
letting them attack me would have been stupid
Krill says:
hh, as I said to Aqua a whilew ago, they shuld have been more paranoid
Krill says:
yup, I'm right there with you Pady. it was a smart move to take
Krill says:
damn, I need more sleep
Krill says:
brb
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
Ormuzd, did it meet the Honour meter in how we did it?
ormuzd says:

ormuzd says:
where arethe others?
ormuzd says:
or there will be no others?
Paddy says:
Ljube may be here soon, he only got to bed a few hours ago unfortunatly
ormuzd says:
to an earlier question - I'm better now, but just a little bit better
Paddy says:
hehehe
ormuzd says:
ok, then I'll go to eat something and I'll come back
Paddy says:
ok
Krill says:
cya shortly mate
Krill says:
Paddy, I do have a couple of questions about you war against the bards
Paddy says:
ok
Krill says:
di you mind if I ask them?
Krill says:
OK
Paddy says:
no
Paddy says:
ask away
Krill says:
You've just signed a peace treaty with DR, so I was wondering, is the war now going to be a joint venture?
Paddy says:
hopefully
Krill says:

Krill says:
good to here
Krill says:
hear
Paddy says:
allowing us to get onto Babs
Krill says:
OK
Krill says:
about the babs. Yesterday Ormuzd told me that you wanted us to attack felinicity immediately
Paddy says:
it is an idea I have only
Paddy says:
I have several ideas
Paddy says:
many many actually
Paddy says:
thousands if you were to push me
Paddy says:
I want them crushed soon
Paddy says:
HAHAHAHAHA
Paddy says:
thus why we having a Military Council
Krill says:
if we did, when we get thesave we would move a few spears to a mountain, next turn move them all to the hill 77 of felin, and two turns from now attac
Krill says:
6 definate WC/horses
Krill says:
maybe a few more
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
can you tell me what sized forces you have - so I have an idea
Krill says:
4 WC
Krill says:
6 Horses
Krill says:
8 spears
Krill says:
4 reg warriors
Krill says:
1 vet warrior
Paddy says:
hmmmm
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
good
Krill says:
when we get out of Anarchy, we will be building atleats one WC a turn
Krill says:
With a GA, that gets closer to three
Paddy says:

Paddy says:
awesome
Krill says:
that was why a while ago I asked for the war to be postponed.
Krill says:
we could heve built the army, but any loses could not be replaced
Krill says:
now, the army will just keep on growing
Paddy says:
it is all good
Krill says:
oh, I had a chat with Babs yesterday
Paddy says:
good
Krill says:
and they are a slimy bunch
Paddy says:
they need to be talked to at the moment
Paddy says:

Paddy says:
Did they ask you to join an alliance with Bards, DR and LB against the Horde?
Krill says:
effectively, they said that Unreal estate is in their land.
Krill says:
and yes, they want us to join their alliance
Paddy says:
what
Krill says:
they can sod off
Paddy says:
their alliance is in trouble
Paddy says:
as per the last sections of my email to them:

Paddy says:
- Your trade of the technology, please understand that if you again do not complete this trade deal, that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.

- Your unit, Cain (warrior 3/3), please understand that if he moves onto the road between Bloodview and Fort Napster (yes the tile next to him) that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
Paddy says:
I expect to be at war with them this cvoming turn
Paddy says:
they got the email 12 hours before playing the save, and still have not had the courage to respond
Krill says:
they said that they wont trade you fued,but they would gift us fued if we joined them and helped their research effort by sending them gold
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
well I will unleash hell upon them
Paddy says:
hehe
Krill says:
so, I am inclijined to say, sure, we can send you some gold this turn, say 30 gold, andwill do every turn. They gift us Fued, we declare war aftersending 30 gold
Paddy says:
good
Krill says:
do you mind if we try to do this?
Paddy says:
no
Krill says:
thank you
Paddy says:
feud is good
Krill says:
oh, and how much gold will you want back this turn?
Paddy says:
the same 50
Krill says:
OK
Paddy says:
thank you
Krill says:
no problem, just glad to be of service
Paddy says:
I know we waiting on Ormuzd, but would you like to hear my favourite idea on getting babs
Krill says:
sure, I always happy to listen
ormuzd says:
so, I'm back
Paddy says:
hello
ormuzd says:
hello again
Paddy says:
Operation - Confused the Inner Babylonian
Paddy says:
we run some fast guerilla attacks while our main battle armies prepare

1. AM attacks Felicity while it empty and Babs fighting barbarians
also pillaging some roads in area
this makes it harder for them to connect iron
then your fast movers take off home..
more........
Paddy says:
2. Horde come down through The Furnace and attack their lake Ishtar
doing the same as above
more........
Paddy says:
in this they will not know where to go attack
they would normally expect to fight an army that they can see in the field
except we not there
more.........
Paddy says:
thus we turn the battle into a geurilla fight for the opening moves
Paddy says:
then we can either continue in that frame, or move to a more conventional war frame
Krill says:
OK.
Krill says:
FYI, you know the army list I posted above? that army is strong to Babylon, so we should be able to do that
Paddy says:
iondeed
Paddy says:
I see no reason why with only your Horse and WC you cannoit do that
Paddy says:
and by cutting roads, they will have a very hard time chasing you
Krill says:
Istar is on a hill, that alone would make Ishtar difficult to capture
Paddy says:
maybe
Krill says:
Felinisty, though, we could handle
Paddy says:
and thus they loose iron
ormuzd says:
read the plan, loaded the latest save I have here
Krill says:
unless they have some iron, unconnected, under the FOW, but that is unlikely
Krill says:
Babs have a trade route with LB, so they could buy iron from them
Paddy says:
maybe
Paddy says:
DR have a trade agreement with them
ormuzd says:
ah, this unfortunate
Paddy says:
we could possibly get DR to step in their
Paddy says:
DR also want to get the Babs
ormuzd says:
I have hoped that babylon will be left without iron and thus be helpless
Paddy says:
yes
ormuzd says:
but having iron from LB makes them even better suited for war
Paddy says:
I have heard that LB and Babs do not have trade yet
ormuzd says:
building spears and warriors and upgrading them to pikes and MI
ormuzd says:
the drawback is money, of course
Krill says:
LB and babs are trading silks, or that is what ET told me
ormuzd says:
and being isolated with techs, they will start to sink
Paddy says:
I wonder how
ormuzd says:
probably harbours
Krill says:
same here, actualy.
Paddy says:
they would need a harbour
Krill says:
this is the first time i have looked from the chats
ormuzd says:
euphorica are the only one in the ancient times
Paddy says:
and I heard they are a long way from harbour
ormuzd says:
they don't have harbours?
ormuzd says:
no military, no harbours, no culture
Krill says:
hmm
Paddy says:
not as we understand
ormuzd says:
what do they have?
Paddy says:
we looked at this matter closely
Krill says:
grnaries...
ormuzd says:
we are still 1st in life expectancy
Paddy says:
good
Paddy says:
Babs only have one town on waters edge, and it is still small, reletivly new etc
ormuzd says:
krill, did you suggest to babylon our help for the barbarians?
Krill says:
no
Krill says:
ET asked if we saw any other bars though, and I said that we only saw the stack of 8
Paddy says:
that is not many
Krill says:
I know
Paddy says:
did you guys get hit by any
Krill says:
16 near DR
Paddy says:
we had 2 stacks of 17
Krill says:
nope, we are still clear
Paddy says:
good
Paddy says:
hope the bards were
Paddy says:
I expect the 2nd stack to hit this turn
Krill says:
closet barbs to us are the ones near the babs
ormuzd says:
we are keeping our territories clear of barbarians
ormuzd says:
one of the good sides of the high culture
Paddy says:
good man
Paddy says:
well said
Paddy says:
so do you like the idea of us pruning babylon of a few cities
Paddy says:
break them
Krill says:
yep
Krill says:
if we remove Felinicty, and Lake Ishtar, then we have the choice of either carrying on or peace, if Babs accept
Paddy says:
hahaha
Krill says:
then hitting them with knights
Paddy says:
well imagine what they would do if DR arrived as well
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
Knights .................................
Paddy says:

Krill says:
keshiks
Paddy says:
indeed.
Krill says:
a GA
Paddy says:
We be Mongol
Paddy says:
so, do either of you have any plans, ideas, input
ormuzd says:
the most important thing is to deny them the iron
Paddy says:
yes
Krill says:
I thought of hitting Felinicity as well.
Krill says:
we would investigate it to see what is in there prior to declaring war though
Paddy says:
indeed
Krill says:
A little less than 50 gold
Krill says:
so doable
Paddy says:
good
ormuzd says:
the problem is the city may be empty and in the next turn it will be full of units
Krill says:
How long would it take you for you troops to get to Lake Ishtar?
Paddy says:
I will look
ormuzd says:
7-8 turns IMO
ormuzd says:
only the fast movers
ormuzd says:
the others will need a little bit more time
ormuzd says:
another question
Paddy says:
if only taking fast movers - 6- 8
Paddy says:
yes Ormuzd
ormuzd says:
what happened with the road between us?
Krill says:
lack of workers?
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
I have 2 on it
Krill says:
we all lack workers
Paddy says:
yes
Krill says:
we shall shortly be remedying that.
Paddy says:
Bongo wants them to go south though to build road to babs
Krill says:
it would mean that we don't need an RoP, and therefore not alarm the babs
Paddy says:
yes
Krill says:
Got to agree, it has its' good points
Paddy says:
yet you need to know, we do not have a rop now
ormuzd says:
we have canceled it last turn
Krill says:
it expired last turn, aong with the 9gpt trade
Paddy says:
oh ok
Paddy says:
ok
ormuzd says:
it should have ended many turns ago
ormuzd says:
but it stayed always there
Paddy says:
so you will persue Feud with Babs
then next step your forces attack Felicity
then next step we attack babs
ok
ormuzd says:
sounds good
ormuzd says:
it needs to work too
Paddy says:
well we do want that lands for your nation
Krill says:
if we get fued, we will have pikes, so we shuld be OK against horses
Paddy says:
indeed
ormuzd says:
yes, to allow us grow and leave every thing else to the north for you
Paddy says:
I see us having a great national park between us for some time
Krill says:
just checked, and we can have 3 Horses and 4 WC attack Felinicity
Krill says:
better get those granaries pumping
Paddy says:
a suggestion
road the mountain at Unseen 2, or Treacle 3
Krill says:
we would do, if we had the workers to spar.
Paddy says:
ok
Krill says:
or rather, we would raod TMR 6, and TMR 66
Paddy says:
a shame, yet I understand
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
but you know what I mean
Krill says:
if we had the orkers to spare, we would help[ build your southern road from the Furnace
ormuzd says:
we know but we don't have the time
Paddy says:
ok
ormuzd says:
if babylon moves the worker on the iron we will be left without a choice
Paddy says:
indeed
Krill says:
we could attack in two turns.
ormuzd says:
exactly
Paddy says:
I know they do not have iron now, we can still offer in shade etc
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
that will freak them
Paddy says:
hehe
ormuzd says:
this will leave with allies as euphorica and LB
Krill says:
with 3 vet horses, 4 vet WC, one reg horsee
ormuzd says:
I think LB will be dead very son
ormuzd says:
only DR need to send a little group of 10 immortals
Paddy says:
hehehe
ormuzd says:
LB are most weakiest team around
Paddy says:
possibly
ormuzd says:
so, about the techs
Paddy says:
yes?
ormuzd says:
after we get feud, would you like it immiadetly?
Paddy says:
maybe
Paddy says:
would be good to get the swords upgraded for attack on lake istah or beyond
ormuzd says:
ok
ormuzd says:
when do you expect to have monotheism?
Paddy says:
I will come back to you on that
Paddy says:
I think about 3 turns away
ormuzd says:
because we might get it from DR once we have the feud
Paddy says:
yes, you or us
Paddy says:

Paddy says:
may I invite Ljube in

Ljube has been added to the conversation.

Paddy says:
oh ok.
Paddy says:
hello Ljube
Ljube says:
hello
Ljube says:
has the chat only started recently or are you near finishing it
Krill says:
we've gone over quite a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure if we are ready to finish just yet
Krill says:
and stop using my colour for the fonts oitnow!:
Paddy says:
hehehe
Ljube says:
yessir
ormuzd says:
guten tag, ljube
Ljube says:
guten tag herr todor
ormuzd says:
we have agreed about the attack to babylon
ormuzd says:
(not we could not)
Ljube says:
that's excellent
ormuzd says:
we are discussing techs now
Ljube says:
how may I join your chat (see the rest of it)?
ormuzd says:
for babylon - we will attack them in 2, 3 or 4 turns
Paddy says:
ok, may we take a 5 min break
I have emailed Ljube the chat so far
Krill says:
Paddy can copy and paste it into your private forum
ormuzd says:
2 turns is the fastest possible, max is the time their worker goes on the idonr hills
Krill says:
or emai it to you...
Paddy says:
all gone3
Ljube says:
that's excellent, please hurry as they are close to connecting iron and have lots of money
Paddy says:
so can we have a 5 min break while Ljube reads it?
Krill says:
sure.
ormuzd says:
ok
Krill says:
put some music on, make breakfast...
Paddy says:
yummmmmmmmm food
Ljube says:
breakfast for me too, just kidding, I never eat just after I get up
Ljube says:
paddy and I are ready to continue the chat whenever you are
Ljube says:
ormuzd and krill, when you come back just write something short, like: I'm back
Krill says:
back
Ljube says:
OK, I have an alternative plan
Ljube says:
alternative to that of paddy
Ljube says:
paddy likes guerilla warfare, I prefer taking ground
ormuzd says:
so, tell us about your plan
Ljube says:
OK, to execute this your task force must consist of all spears you can muster plus all horse/wc = your entire army
Ljube says:
you make the following task force: 8 spears + 6-8 wc/horse preferably 10 + 3 workers + 1 settler
Ljube says:
you capture felinicity
Ljube says:
then your workers connect it to the rest of your empire
Ljube says:
while a group of 5 spears + settler continues toward the babylon iron hill
Ljube says:
and settles there
Ljube says:
then you buy barracks from scratch
Ljube says:
and next turn you upgrade your spears to pikes
ormuzd says:
good diea
Krill says:
but alot of problems
ormuzd says:
do you know the size of our army?
Ljube says:
yes, read it
Ljube says:
adequate to teh task if imployed fully
Krill says:
no, it is not adequate to defend the north, and carrout the attack
Paddy says:
I agree
Ljube says:
defend north?
Ljube says:
from the barbarians?
Krill says:
Unreal estate
ormuzd says:
barbarians?
Krill says:
Babs army shall be coming home from DR right?
ormuzd says:
borders? surprise attack?
Krill says:
what is the closest city to them?
Krill says:
UE
Ljube says:
there is no bab army
Ljube says:
such a thing does not exist
Ljube says:
we too were led to believe they have an army
Krill says:
with the amount of units that you want us to attack with, we won't have a sngle unit defending the east, apart from a solitary worker
Ljube says:
build more units
Krill says:
we are doing
Ljube says:
you are industrious, replacing that units shouldn't be a problem for you
Krill says:
sory?
Ljube says:
I mean all your tiles are already improved thus producing more shields/food than for instance us
Krill says:
a single extra shield, in cities size 7 and above, of which we have none, helps us build faster?
Krill says:
nope, they are not improved.
Ljube says:
OK krill, I see
Krill says:
we are about to get Home to 20 spt
Krill says:
after that, we are trying to get Barrows nest and TMr to 20 spt in a GA
Ljube says:
what government are you planning to switch to?
Ljube says:
if feud you could pop rush the units without use of money
Krill says:
nope, weain't pop rushing.
ormuzd says:
monarchy
Krill says:
and that is final
Krill says:
I would consider fued, solely for the units support though
ormuzd says:
we have pop rushed earlier and we are far behind the other teams now
Ljube says:
yes, also pop rushing is a powerful technique
Ljube says:
other teams?
Ljube says:
far behind which other teams sorry?
Ljube says:
you're not behind us
Ljube says:
if you think you're behind babs, that's about to be taken care of
Krill says:
Sorry, are you trying to persuade us to pop rush?
Ljube says:
LOL
Ljube says:
I am trying to show you some otehr techniques you are reluctant to use yes, so you could choose
Krill says:
we already used them when you attacked us.
Krill says:
we pop rushed 4 pop away.
Krill says:
and look how far behind that put us
Ljube says:
OK, then that's about pop-rushing
Ljube says:
not essential in war plannning at this stage anyway
ormuzd says:
yes, indeed
ormuzd says:
anyway, you plan was good one
Ljube says:
thanks
ormuzd says:
if we get feud we might first upgrade our spears and use 5-6 instead of 10
Paddy says:
hahaha
Ljube says:
I have a strong feeling that the only way to deny the babs their iron is to settle it
Paddy says:

Ljube says:
I fear babs are about to settle that iron on their own
Krill says:
how do you know that?
Ljube says:
well, it's still outside of their territory
Krill says:
that does not mean they are going to settle directly on the iron.
Ljube says:
delaying connecting it thus far was dangerous, delaying it any further is a death wish
Ljube says:
they know they are at war with us
Krill says:
we have not connected iron.
Krill says:
do you think we have a deathwish?
Ljube says:
yes, but you not at war
Ljube says:
and also we have extra iron, we could supply you when we connect our two civs
Paddy says:
yes
Krill says:
they have enough time to build s ome more spears, and upgrade them as it will take you some time to reach them
Krill says:
this assumes that they trust us, though
Ljube says:
OK, but you will attack in about 4 turns, am I correct?
Krill says:
depends if we try to get fued or not.
Krill says:
if we throw all caution to the wind, we can attack in 2 turns
Ljube says:
May I suggest an aternative path for your assault force?
Krill says:
go on
Ljube says:
If you could form your troops on mountain 9-9-9 from felinicity you could move 2 next turn and be close to their iron resource to settle quickly
Ljube says:
sorry
Krill says:
Problems
Ljube says:
I forgot the wc
Ljube says:
no way
Krill says:
yep, the WC, it would take 9 turns to attack
Krill says:
adn Babs could see them 2 turns before we could attack
Ljube says:
perhaps you could have a detachment of spears with that settler on that mountain at the same time as wc/horse + soem spear in position to attack felinicity
Krill says:
it would take 4 turns for the settler to reach that moutnain
Krill says:
mountain
Ljube says:
that's fine, 4 turns are what you said you would need
Krill says:
if we get Fued, I agree we could hold felinicity
Ljube says:
yes
Krill says:
oh, that does not include either spears or pikes
Ljube says:
ah a quich destructive attack?
Ljube says:
still, just settling on top of iron even if felinicity destroyed would be of great benefit to our effort
Krill says:
If felin is destroyed, I've been thinking about putting a temp city 7 of the iron
Ljube says:
why not on top of it?
Krill says:
because that temp city might become permenant
ormuzd says:
because we have a Settlement Plan
Ljube says:
LOL
Krill says:
have you heard of cutting iron
Krill says:
?
Ljube says:
cutting?
Krill says:
OK, let me explain
Krill says:
you cheap troops, ie warriors, connect iron, upgrade, as you did before. Right?

Now, disconnect the iron and do it again. And Again.
Krill says:
And Again
Ljube says:
I see
Ljube says:
it can be done differently
Krill says:
same applies with sp, and Aluminium for MA
Ljube says:
yes
Ljube says:
all that very good, something I use often, but in SP, here speed is of the essence
Krill says:
how does settling on the iron speed up your plan?
Ljube says:
meaning the fastest way to connect iron is to settle on top of it
Krill says:
If wesettle 7 of the iron we can get the iron separated from the Babs even sooner
Ljube says:
yes, but how are you going to defend that city? you can't upgrade spears to pikes then
Krill says:
sacrificing the future the the present is usually not the best decision
Krill says:
we have iron, and we are going to connect it shortly
Krill says:
shall we continue now?
Ljube says:
yes
Krill says:
Paddy, you chair
Paddy says:
ok, we each have some things to think over
Paddy says:
The horde have several ideas on units to send
Paddy says:
and we have to smack the Bards a bit for their breaking their oath with us.
Paddy says:
We understand that Babs will not send us Feud as they tell you
Paddy says:
thus we will be at war with them
Paddy says:
and in this you can show we no longer have RoP
Ljube says:
yes
Paddy says:
1 mo folks
Ljube says:
if you get feud, are you planning to upgrade spears to pikes?
Krill says:
yes. How many, though, is another question
Paddy says:
ok, so the goal is for you to pursue Feud
Paddy says:
and I have it agreed with DR you get Mono etc
Paddy says:
so we will be well on our way
Paddy says:
AM needs to consider which step they take then
Paddy says:
we have 2 differing plans
Paddy says:
and in that that will change greatly where we move etc
Krill says:
The main, immediate, aim of the war is to deny iron to the babs
Krill says:
this affects our attempt to trade for Fued
Paddy says:
yes
Krill says:
so we won't be attacking in 4 turns.
Krill says:
sorry, I meant 2 turns
Krill says:
3 or 4 turns is most likely
Krill says:
we will be attacking from the hill 33 of TMR, as that allows Babylon the least amount of turns to gather defensive uints in Felinicty
Paddy says:
so you will persue Feud with Babs
then next step your forces attack Felicity
then next step we attack babs
ok

Krill says:
yep
Ljube says:
do you have road 2 from treacle?
Krill says:
no
Krill says:
we don't need it though
Ljube says:
then you would need to move spears the turn before
Ljube says:
that's gonna arouse suspicion
Krill says:
that is one problem
Krill says:
we can replace a reg warrior with a vet spear, and say we are disbanding the warrior, to lower unit costs
Ljube says:
only one spear as defence? probably enough
Paddy says:
so are you looking at keeping Felicity, or razing it?
Ljube says:
if you're razing felinicity
Krill says:
Felin I would like to raze, as I don't trust the culture flip
Ljube says:
you have hiogher culture
Ljube says:
I think
Krill says:
we have the highest culture in the game.
Ljube says:
yes, thus flip less likely
Paddy says:
The babs have many bowmen
ormuzd says:
many? how many?
Ljube says:
indeed, how many?
Ljube says:
if AM are strong to them, they can't have that many
ormuzd says:
yes, indeed
Ljube says:
and bowmen are not immortals
Ljube says:
LOL
Krill says:
a fair amount of our streng is derived from spears
Paddy says:
6 or 8
Krill says:
but Babs need fastmovers to reach our stack
ormuzd says:
I want to apologize
Paddy says:
???
ormuzd says:
I wasn't very active during this counsel
ormuzd says:
and I have to leave now
Paddy says:
be well mate
Paddy says:
you have all the notes
Krill says:
Be safe, and have fun.
ormuzd says:
good luck
ormuzd says:
to all of you

ormuzd has left the conversation.

Paddy says:
I will email a copy of full chat to all
Ljube says:
that's good, could you leave out the personal stuff?
Paddy says:
what personal stuff
Ljube says:
that part I insulted krill
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
moving on
Ljube says:
yes
Ljube says:
OK, one bowman + 1 warrior = 1 horse + 1 spear
Paddy says:
so are we looking at the guerilla option? or the more convential straigh war
Krill says:
It depends on if we get Fued, or not.
Krill says:
well, partly
Paddy says:
hehe
Krill says:
If we can get pikes, any and all cities become easier to hold
Ljube says:
yes
Paddy says:
ok lJube - do you gold thing, I was wrong -
Ljube says:
Krill, the Horde would like to offer something
Ljube says:
In teh spirit of our friendship
Ljube says:
We gave you our money for safekeeping so you know what amounts we're talikng about.
Ljube says:
If you need the money for upgrades: spear to pike, Horde would like to help
Krill says:
Thank you
Krill says:
Right now we have a little over 400 gold ourselves
Paddy says:

Ljube says:
that's excellent!!!
Krill says:
so we don't require much gold
Ljube says:

Paddy says:
well said Krill
Krill says:
however, if we establish a city, we will require gold for rushing a brracks and walls. Under these circumstances, I thank you for your offer of help.
Ljube says:
The horde will assist your enterprise
Paddy says:
we will discuss that in finer details later
Ljube says:
yes
Krill says:
Thank you, again.
Paddy says:
this is a military council, I have not an auditor here
Paddy says:
Double Edge (swords 4/4)
Bone Crusher (swords 3/3)
Shadow Striker (swords 4/4)
Grim Death (swords 4/4)
Bloodletter (swords 5/5)
Bataar (swords 4/4)

Paddy says:
these units would be available to head in
Paddy says:
they would be better as med inf
Krill says:
150 gold, to upgrade all noe elites
Krill says:
none
Ljube says:
We see this as a joint effort. We see that you are committed to it and we are also committed to it. We will be victorious.
Paddy says:
I tell you this to further encourage your talks with Bab for Feud.
Paddy says:
yes our continued joint efforts will flatten babylon and the lands will greatly help your nation
Ljube says:
yes I look forward to that bright future
Ljube says:
it will compensate your civ for the losses suffered in the past
Krill says:
It shall be a bright future, and We shall have much to do.
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
ok, so do we have any other business
Ljube says:
We'll meet agin after you have received feud or realised that you will never receive it and decided to attack.
Krill says:
we shall meet again, on that day, Ljube

	18-07-2005 06:35									#157
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Babs are plotting against us all over the shop and shamelessly at that. Hence the delay.

I wonder what exactly we did to them to deserve such treatment. The payback time will soon come.

	18-07-2005 07:07									#158
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Paddy, it would be nice if someone could leak that the ROP treaty we had with AM as part of our peace deal expired and that AM had not renewed it. Also 9 gpt tribute they were paying as reparations was also cancelled. Our relations with the AM are tense.

This leak will all but secure feud being handed over to AM.

	18-07-2005 11:53									#159
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

may I suggest that the map Beta sent us a ways back be made ready for public unveiling wen this war begins for the AM.

The map showing how much of the AM lands Babylon expected the Horde to gift to them after we had removed AM for babylon.

Seems both the Bards and the Babs enjoy watching other nations fighting there wars for them

	18-07-2005 11:59									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

priceless

	18-07-2005 18:29									#161
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

While talking with Ormuzd just now, on the subject of attacking Babylon:

Ormuzd says:
how could we be neutral when our brothers are fighting all the time?

	22-07-2005 00:17									#162
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I may be a bit late but the 9gpt we get from AM should be good enough if we want someone to believe our relations with AM are tense...AM can always claim we threatened another war if they cancelled the gold

	24-07-2005 05:41									#163
	Tired of ads?

Hmm, Krill attacked me real hard in the open forum even though I praised him and cursed Babylon. In fact, he ended up defending Babylon!!!!???


Well, there are 2 possible explanations for this:

1) AM and Babylon have a secret deal. They either had this deal all the time, or they made it very recently. If that should be the case, we ought to consider destroying the AM for good once the bards are gone.

2) Krill doesn't like me, in which case I should just shut up and stop posting in the open forum.

	24-07-2005 08:16									#164
	Full PM-box? Change here!

or that the alliance between us and AM is still a secret as per the agreement

	25-07-2005 18:06									#165
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Krill says:
Guys, I have some great newws for you
Paddy says:
hello
Krill says:
HI Paddy
Krill says:
Babylon did not settle on the iron
Paddy says:
hahaha
Krill says:
so they won't have any pikes
Paddy says:
that is awesome
Paddy says:
gotta love that E_T fella
Krill says:
MOI to the bone. and they had almost 600 gold in the bank
Paddy says:
hahaha
Krill says:
so they could have afforded the upgrade
Paddy says:
hope you got some from Felicity
Paddy says:

Krill says:
I can't remember how much. I was just suprised we managed to take it.
Paddy says:
hahaha
Krill says:
I was off my head, as Ormuzd probably recalls
Paddy says:
well good luck keeping it
Paddy says:
wish you had of just razed it
Krill says:
I'll go look up that culture flip equation now then...but it made no snse razing it. Next turn we can attack another Bab city with 7 horse/WC
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
enjoy
Krill says:
because Felin is pushing the culture back
Krill says:
thanks
Paddy says:
hehehe
Paddy says:
poor old Babs, I have NO sorry for them at all
Krill says:

	26-07-2005 00:58									#166
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Did AM take that city by culture flipping???

	26-07-2005 14:58									#167
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Felicity, no they attacked it.

	31-07-2005 20:47									#168
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Krill says:
we can carry on slowly, and send you money to reseach chiv quicker
Krill says:
if you want to do that
Paddy says:
thank you
Paddy says:
I will talk to my money people

	31-07-2005 21:22									#169
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Paddy says:
are you still talking with aqua
Krill says:
on and off
Krill says:
I just gave him something that resembled an ultimatum, but I gave him a weak spot that he will hopefully try to exploit
Krill says:
you ee, our deal included a lux trade
Krill says:
see
Paddy says:
ahhhh nice
Krill says:
damnit, he is not taking the bait.
Krill says:
if he had taken the lux bait he would have to stay at peace with you
Paddy says:
ehehehe
Krill says:
Well, Aqua has declined the offer
Krill says:
that means that I can send up to 40 gold per turn to you
Paddy says:
hmmm
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
we should have chiv fast - I will see what times
Paddy says:
I need to have my numbers checked
but I feel we are 15 turns away
Paddy says:
at that rate
Krill says:
OK, that is good
Paddy says:
I need that clarified
Krill says:
even if it is an estimate
Paddy says:
it certainly is an estiumate at best

	01-08-2005 14:37									#170
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Paddy says:
are you list as strong compared
ormuzd says:
currently - yes
ormuzd says:
but before the attack we were average
ormuzd says:
they have lost 9 units and a esttler
ormuzd says:
if we had one more unit, they could have lost 3 workers more

	03-08-2005 14:34									#171
	Possible AM / Babylon Treaty Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Krill says:
Uh, Paddy, Ormuzd jus informed me thatyou are not happy with the Babylonian offer...
Paddy says:
I have questions
Krill says:
sure, ask them.

ormuzd has been added to the conversation.

Paddy says:
I did
Paddy says:
oh ok again
Paddy says:
sorry, so if my Generals still want to smack some Babylon - where do you stnd?

Paddy says:
and why do you trust them?
Krill says:
We can help you against LB
Paddy says:
huh?
Krill says:
At the moment,I don trust them.
Paddy says:
Lost Boys????
ormuzd says:
in the moment paddy has two questions
Paddy says:
I am more confused
Krill says:
yes, I thought you wantted to attack them
ormuzd says:
he can't answer alone, he will ask their team
Paddy says:
we are talkinmg Babylon
ormuzd says:
and Lost Boys have nothing to do here
Paddy says:
you wanted Babylon
ormuzd says:
yes
ormuzd says:
and we have babylon
Paddy says:
we are geared for that
ormuzd says:
leaving only desert and tundra for them
Paddy says:
so if my Generals still want to smack some Babylon - where do you stand?

ormuzd says:
very small fruitful lands to grow
ormuzd says:
and generate gold
ormuzd says:
what will you do after this?
ormuzd says:
keep the cities?
Krill says:
I woul not be happy if you generals wanted to attack something that was working for the our alliance.
Paddy says:
most perculiar
Krill says:
Babylon would be working for both Am and BOH.
Krill says:
as slaves.
Paddy says:
do you honestly believe that
Krill says:
they would not have any army to backstab with
Paddy says:
will they stand down what they now have?
Krill says:
all ofthe horses, yes
Paddy says:
and bowmen?
ormuzd says:
yes
Paddy says:
you have not touched their bowmen yet
Krill says:
let them keep a few warrios adn spears to gaurad against a naval landing by blocking the coast
Paddy says:
bowmen...
Paddy says:
they had 8 - 10

who knows how many they have now
Krill says:
OK, we can make that a requirement of surrender. No Bowmen or horses.
Paddy says:
and which cities will you ask for?
Krill says:
All but Potamia and Tamuz, to be recieved by us next turn
Krill says:
we would have to capture babylon, of course
Krill says:
they can use those two cities to build settlers and populate the desert.
Paddy says:
HAHAHAHA
ormuzd says:
they have a settler already
Paddy says:
what are you willing to give them for all this
Krill says:
two city sites that are mostly desert to the south of Helio and TMR
Krill says:
and any spare resources
Krill says:
and any techs that all of the other civs know.
Krill says:
if we end up gettin to the next era, we get their free tech.
Paddy says:
that certainly is a long way from here
Paddy says:
why do you trust them
ormuzd says:
yes, it is
Krill says:
yeah, it is an if, but it is still worth considering.
ormuzd says:
becaue we will be able to crush them any time
Paddy says:
hmmm
Paddy says:
and what of their allaince with lost boys?
ormuzd says:
we are looking for any means to outproduce DR
Krill says:
Alliance with Lost boys should be severed.
ormuzd says:
I guess the alliance will be turned to peace treaty
Krill says:
and in reality, that alliance is worthless any way, if babylon agree to the surrender.
Paddy says:
allioance with Lost boys still good for techs and any resources they get
Paddy says:
also how will you know they have no bowmen etc
Krill says:
we have an RoP, and we could move WC/Hoses around their land.
Krill says:
and make sure that Babs never keep any unit in a city
Paddy says:
hmmmm
ormuzd says:
giving gold to us each turn
Paddy says:
hmmm
ormuzd says:
and having only few cities should force them without big military
ormuzd says:
and the pikemen don't fear bowmen that much
Krill says:
To be honest, I reckon 6 pikes, and about 6 warriors/cats in addition to their workers should be enough to gaurd against a naval landing.
Paddy says:
I do not trust them
Paddy says:
I have all the summit docs for TNA
ormuzd says:
or 12-15 warriors to make a blockade
Paddy says:
they renigged on so so much
Krill says:
yeah, that many warriors. Don't allow them iron.
Krill says:
that is why the price for peace is so high. All of their core, and their horses.
Paddy says:
Krill says:
I woul not be happy if you generals wanted to attack something that was working for the our alliance.

understand that after all the work etc - my Generals may have a few issues with this statment
ormuzd says:
with 4 cities over size 7 they will have 12 units support
Paddy says:
what 4 cities please
Paddy says:
I thought you were taking the main cities
ormuzd says:
wouldn't it better to keep your troops near your cities?
ormuzd says:
ok, one by one
ormuzd says:
we leave them with two cities
ormuzd says:
and we allow them build two more
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
ok
ormuzd says:
this means 4 cities, doesn't it?
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
the size 7 statement got me
ormuzd says:
this is already clear then
ormuzd says:
so, next - about your troops and generals
Paddy says:
yes
ormuzd says:
if we get all their core cities your troops will need to go all the way south to destroy them
Paddy says:
yes
ormuzd says:
wouldn't it be better to keep them near your cities?
ormuzd says:
you are not threatened from anyone, except prbably the barbarians
Paddy says:
we are at war with them
ormuzd says:
but who knows? it is better not send troops far away
Paddy says:
for many reasons
ormuzd says:
I understand
ormuzd says:
and that's why I asked you
Paddy says:
many were started so as to meet the requirements of OUR alliance
ormuzd says:
but I think you have many reasons to think they are dead
Paddy says:
so my Generals have their Blood up
Paddy says:
they not dead when they hold the save up every turn
Paddy says:
they dead when out of game
ormuzd says:
the only war which should meet our alliance is the war against babylon
ormuzd says:
we have almost completed it successfully
ormuzd says:
so, you say they had 8-10 bowmen
Paddy says:
yet where is Krill? it was his statement, I would like to hear some more from him on this as well.
ormuzd says:
what other troops do they posses?
Paddy says:
who knows
ormuzd says:
I thought you know
Paddy says:
I only know what I was told during TNA
Krill says:
I'm just making a picture of what cities Babs would have.
ormuzd says:
otherwise how could you know about the bowmen?
Paddy says:
they told us
Paddy says:
and have lost none in battle reports
Krill says:
And you trust their word in this matter?
Paddy says:
Snoopy did
Paddy says:
Beta and he are lovers
Paddy says:
brothers
ormuzd says:
if they had 10 bowmen, 5 horsemen and 3 pikemen, they would nevr appear weak to us
Krill says:
Beta and Snoop are brothers?
Krill says:
realy?
Paddy says:
mates
Paddy says:
in many many pbems as allies
ormuzd says:
close friends
Paddy says:
have been for long time
Krill says:
oh, OK. It's just Con and Beta are brothers, aren't they?
Paddy says:
maybe
ormuzd says:
I am not sure either
Paddy says:
ok, onward
Paddy says:

Krill says:
Babylon would be working for both Am and BOH.


also could you further explain this

Paddy says:
will tey now know of our allaince?

Krill says:
no
Krill says:
and that is definate.
Krill says:
They will be saving gold, and sending it to us.
ormuzd says:
as a whole we do what we want to do
ormuzd says:
babylon should ask us for anything they want to do
Paddy says:
hmmm
Paddy says:
well it certainly seems you lads have to this wrapped up nicely
ormuzd says:
no, we just like to catch good chances
Paddy says:
hehe
ormuzd says:
we may destroy them anytime we want
ormuzd says:
but it is not necessary right now
Paddy says:
go forth with my blessing
I will take this to the Horde Council, but I expect nothing major against it
ormuzd says:
I mean anytime after they accept our conditions
Paddy says:
yes
ormuzd says:
great
ormuzd says:
the word of the khan means a lot as usual
ormuzd says:

Paddy says:
thank you for answering my many questions
Krill says:
np












The following pic showsPotamia and Tammuz, which would revert to AM control after those cities are settled by the Babylonians

Attachment: babylonian cities, vassla treaty..jpg
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

	03-08-2005 14:40									#172
	Full PM-box? Change here!

and some more - on DR and LB as well


Krill says:
back again.
ormuzd says:
what happened?
Krill says:
you dropped from the conversation for a moment.
Paddy says:
hello
Paddy says:
can we discuss Lost Boys now

Krill says:
sure.
ormuzd says:
ok
Paddy says:
what goals do you have for them?
Krill says:
Well, I wouldn ot declare war until we had knights.
Paddy says:
ok
ormuzd says:
I think the Horde have the power to crush them
Paddy says:
If / when we do where will you both stand on that
ormuzd says:
we will stand at your side
ormuzd says:
if it is needed military help, we will come
Paddy says:
ok
Krill says:
what he said
Paddy says:
well that be that then
ormuzd says:
if it is not required we may stay "neutral" to not make R suspicious
Krill says:
Only problems are the unit losses, and the fact that you are opening land for DR to expand into
ormuzd says:
*DR, not R
Paddy says:
haha
Paddy says:
DR are the main issue as always
Paddy says:
any ideas on that
Krill says:
Well...
ormuzd says:
after babylon, LB and the bards are crushed, we will be in a situation 2 on 1
Krill says:
Aqua only has one possible ally right now
ormuzd says:
and we will come well prepared, not like your current allies
Krill says:
and that is 1889
Paddy says:
yes 1889 could be the great puppet of DR
ormuzd says:
I think the same
ormuzd says:
they have never had problems
ormuzd says:
DR got the construction from LB
ormuzd says:
I have never seen military units between them
Paddy says:
they are tech partners, Aqua admits that often
ormuzd says:
not even sentries
Paddy says:
yes me neither
ormuzd says:
they were tech partners with us
ormuzd says:
and each time tries to betray us
Paddy says:
yes
ormuzd says:
how do you think I feel about them?
Paddy says:
but at the moment there are only a few techs needed
Paddy says:
not good
ormuzd says:
one of the reasons to cripple LB
ormuzd says:
at least cripple
ormuzd says:
but you need to be well protected from DR before you attack LB
Paddy says:
exactly
Paddy says:
thus one of my reasons to be sure why you are keeping babylon alive
Paddy says:
I sure hope the babylon deal oges through
ormuzd says:
babylon should be not able to do anything
Paddy says:
indeed
ormuzd says:
I'm not sure why they should continue play but it is up to them
Paddy says:
ok
ormuzd says:
if you had some doubts we are working against you, it is not the case
Paddy says:
no not my thoughts
Krill says:
OK, guys, I might be away for a whie. I've just got to look for something.
ormuzd says:
as I said it is a good opportunity
ormuzd says:
this will save us units
Paddy says:
my issue is allowing Beta and Kloreep to stay in the game
Paddy says:
bye Krill
Paddy says:
yes Ormuzd, it certainly will save units, also allows me to do a bit of Vampire hunting
ormuzd says:
yes, indeed
ormuzd says:
ok, I'm going to eat
Paddy says:
bye

	03-08-2005 15:00									#173
	Increase Your PM Length

Good is Babylon agree

	03-08-2005 15:21									#174
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This is great development. AM will get 4 more cities immediately and 2 more later. They will become the top power in the world.

I doubt they will choose to attack us as then they would be left without ally in the world. So they will stay loyal to us and the final battle will be AM + Horde against DR+ 1889.


I don't know if the AM managed to secure this treaty already. I doubt snoopy will allow it if he is given any power to decide.

Also, the treaty seems awfully one-sided to me to the point of being unrealistic. That smells a bit fishy.

	03-08-2005 15:31									#175
	Tired of ads?

Ormuzd said they can take Babylon City next turn
so they have the Babs on the run

	03-08-2005 16:51									#176
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hmm, how come babylon offered so little resistance? Did they have units heading for DR that didn't get home in time?

	03-08-2005 17:07									#177
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think they had no units. I think they were all talk and no show. Big mouths, that's what they are.


I despise weakness. Let them rot.

	03-08-2005 17:08									#178
	Inflate your Upload Space

My understanding is they actually went off west to fight the barbarian stacks

	03-08-2005 18:02									#179
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The following sent to Krill so he can further shake down the Babs that the big bad Horde has th3e following bearing down on them

-------------------------------------------------

"Grey Wolves Horde"

Babylon War Front

"The Rock Hound Brigade"

Brigadier General Rubychaser's Bloodletter (swords 5/5)
Grim Death (med inf 4/4)
Bataar (med inf 4/4)
Dark Flight (archer 4/4)
Vampire Hunters (archer 4/4)
Steal Heart (pikewomen 4/4)
Long Arms (pikewomen 4/4)

"The Jolly Roger Brigade"

Ditch O'Keefe (med inf 3/3)
Blood Scrappers (med inf 4/4)
Harsh Treatment (med inf 3/3)
Maidens of War (pikewomen 4/4)
Girls of Wild Boar (pikewomen 3/3)

"Brigade of Zeus"

First Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 6/6)
Second Royal Red Guards (horseman 4/4)
15th Horse Guards (horseman 4/4)
Tylers Heavies (horseman 4/4)
Destroyer of Hope (horse 4/4)
Fire Breathers (horseman 4/4)
The Tricksters (horseman 4/4)

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	03-08-2005 18:14									#180
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hahahahahaha I ask for one archer and suddenly look at that.