01-07-2005 08:42									#91
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Their Harbor will be cheaper than ours, as that is 30 shields and not the 60 that we have to Produce, so no gold, IMHO.

As for the trade, set up a trade of Silks for Wines, we should have surplus ready to trade around the time of our Harbor build (I hope, still looking at it), but let them know that is another reason that we are going with the Harbor route, because we won't be ready until around then to send them any extra Luxes.

Tell them that we have already made deals as to the Remainder of the Ancient Technologies, except for Republic. We would be willing to offer something to get it, maybe enough to get them into MA (to be negotiated).

As a part of that deal, include a NAP (if we have no CURRENT designes on any of their territory) and a border agreement. Maybe we can get all of it in a nice neat package....

E_T

	01-07-2005 10:43									#92
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quote: Ankh-Morpork and Transylvania want to make the warring nations of the world aware that the choice is not between the deadly scimitars of Desolation Row’s Immortals or the trampling hooves of the Three Nation’s Coalition, there is a path of friendly coexistence. We have chosen a path of peace and friendly relations with all other nations and have made a pact to defend our neutrality. I am sure that others are tallying the wasted shields and wondering what is the purpose of these wars. Desolation Row has called for peace numerous times and I would like to hear what Euphorica or The Blood Oath Horde would consider reasonable terms. The Lost Boy is ready to assist with negotiations at any time.

	01-07-2005 19:03									#93
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re: designs on LB territory
I didn't think so. I thought next up was AM. But the neutrality kind of changes things. Doesn't it?

re: the road/harbor
If we get a NAP do we build a road? Or is harbor the only way we want to go? I know that silk won't be ready in time for the road.

re: neutrality
I say we have to acknowledge it. And priase them for taking the high road.

Let me know and I can fire off an email today.

	01-07-2005 19:52									#94
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I would rather have them neutral than allying with DR (and attacking our flank). Even though they are neutral, they might be nervious about us possibly attacking them after DR, especially if we capture a city. Having a NAP (Non-Agression Pact) and setting up a fixed border with them should help that. I don't think that we are looking in that direction. at least not for some time, especially when we have the possibility of dealing with AM.

But even with a NAP, it still would be good to go with the Harbor, compaired to the road. If anything, it could assure them that we are NOT making any plans against them.

The main thing is to get their Wines locked into a deal with us (and to keep it that way).

E_T

	01-07-2005 21:48									#95
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Update on Harbor Completion date:

The Harbor will be finished no later than 14 turns from the 1275BC save (latest in 925BC). I really doubt that we want to sacrifce pop growth to speed this up, but we could do that, if need be.

HPotW E_T

	01-07-2005 22:11									#96
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I will send word of that.

	01-07-2005 22:47									#97
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Oh, and the other Silks will be connected and ready to trade the very turn afterwards.

E_T

	02-07-2005 03:32									#98
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I sent the following...

quote: Lord Nosferatu of the Lost Boys, The People of Babylon congratulate you and the Lost Boys for remaining neutral and seeking an end to this ugly war. We are pleased to hear this. In the past we have spoke of tech trades, resource trades, a trade route, and the relations of our two nations. Regarding tech trades, we have already made deals as to the remainder of the Ancient Technologies, except for Republic. We would be willing to offer something for it. Is there anyway something can be worked out? We very much want trade between our nations. You have offered Wine. We would like to secure that trade. We will have Silk for you shortly after our harbor is built. This is one reason that we feel we are not ready for the trade road. The mode of the trade route seems to be a sticking point. You want a road, we prefer harbors. Our Minister of the Interior tells me that the harbor will be finished no later than 14 turns from the 1275BC save (latest in 925BC). Your neutrality in the current war does make things easier on this issue. If we could agree on a border between our nations, and come up with a non-aggression pact between us; I believe I could convince Babylon of the road option. I do not see these as major issues since we are already friends. Soon I will be sending screen shots of the proposed border, please do the same. Then we can hammer out the differences. This too should be easy for us to decide on as there is not much space left between our nations. Please accept my apologies ahead of time. Here in Babylon (US) we are busy celebrating The Descent of Inanna (Independance Day). It is a time that we celebrate Inanna's descent to the underworld and rise to be queen of Heaven and Earth. (It is the time that we celebrate throwing off the high taxing British Crown only to set up an even more taxing federal government. I will be at picnics and parades all weekend. ) Response might be delayed. Skrobism Vox Inannum

	02-07-2005 03:36									#99
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If someone can draw up a border screenie I can pass it on to 1889.

Beta, Am I to handle LB diplo for now on? I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. 1889 just started sending emails to me. Let me know.

	02-07-2005 05:03									#100
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You forgot to tell them that our excess Silks would not be connected until the turn right after the Harbor is built. So, even if we had a road now, the silks won;t be available until then as it is.

E_T

	02-07-2005 07:42									#101
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um I thought I was clear on that

quote: ...We very much want trade between our nations. You have offered Wine. We would like to secure that trade. We will have Silk for you shortly after our harbor is built. This is one reason that we feel we are not ready for the trade road...

	02-07-2005 08:00									#102
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Sorry, I must have missed that part.

E_T

	02-07-2005 21:12									#103
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That's ok. I'm long winded and figured that you just missed it.

	04-07-2005 07:06									#104
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from 1889:

quote: A harbor suits my needs fine, Mine will be done about the same time. Is our current border not suitable? There is little room to squeeze another city in anyway. I just spent all day in an over crowded airport to get to the West coast, FROM ARIZONA! I know all about the holiday weekend. I'm glad that you support my peace effort. If you would like to tell me why you have decided to declare war also it would help me understand your grievances with Desolation Row. I may then be able to come up with a possible solution.

	04-07-2005 07:21									#105
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My response.

quote: Great news. I will pass on word about the harbor and then we can work on trade between our nations. Good news on the border. I'm glad it is good with you. I was just going to draw a line up the middle of the few spaces that were left. Babylon has no disputes over the border with the Lost Boys. Let's make sure to stay in touch on this as I'm sure that with being neighbors, something might come up, even though I can't see what that would be. Regarding the TNA/DR War. I can come up with an official statement from Babylon, but it's basically as I said in the threads. Eu and BOH are our friends. They called for our help. We are helping. TNA as a whole will need to list demands or proposals for peace. Didn't mean to inform you of a holiday that you were well aware of. It's a global site you could have been in Iceland. I hope you made it home ok. I'm sure that while you were in the airport you thought of driving to the west coast. Have a great Fourth! Now I need to run an finish decorating bikes, and decoy duck that we race in the big Duck Derby. Sorry I'm not in character. Peace to the Lost Boys and all that. -Mark

	09-07-2005 00:16									#106
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from 1889 yesterday:

quote: Please share this message with the rest of your teams, I'm away from my home computer and its address book. It is unfortunate that Blood Oath Horde and Euphorica are so resistant to the peace process. I am convinced that a peacful conclusion to this current crisis is in the best interests of Transylvania and so will not waver from that objective. That is why I must persue this course despite the rising ire of belligerent nations. I hope you recognise that the success of this endever holds benefits for us all. That is why I ask for your help. I will give you all the warning I can if Desolators begin the journey West and in turn I hope that you will reciprocate with warnings of Horde or Euphorican troops heading my way. Your ally in peace, Lord Nosferatu

hmmm our "ally" very interesting.

	09-07-2005 00:20									#107
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my response:

quote: Lord Nosferatu, I am sorry for the delay in responding. I just did not check this email account yesterday. I will of course pass this on to the People of Babylon. The People of Babylon are grateful for your openness regarding the troop movements of Desolation Row. We will of course notify you if Euphorica or the Blood Oath Horde set their sites on the lands of the Lost Boys. The Three Nation Alliance has no such designs. We welcome a peaceful co-existence with you, our neighbor and friend. Peace, -Skrobism Vox Inannum

I hope that I did not overstep my bounds. But I do not believe that TNA has any designs on LB.

	09-07-2005 00:32									#108
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Nope, I don't believe we do.

	13-07-2005 07:10									#109
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Sent to 1889 a few minutes ago:

quote: of Trade, Troops, & Treaties Lord Nosferatu Ruler Of The Night, It has been too long since our nations spoke. We eagerly await the completion of our harbors and the opening of trade between our peoples. This should bring much joy to both lands. As you have seen, Babylon has joined the fight against the Desolators. I will not say much of that here. I understand that you are probably friends with them as well. When we last spoke you told us that you would send word of any impending DR troop movements. Do you have any screenshots of troop movements? Will sending this information hurt your relationship with the Desolators if found out? The Three Nation Alliance recently gathered for discussions. I can honestly tell you that your nation did not even come up in the talks. There remain no designs on your lands - short term nor long term. You recently signed a letter "Your ally in peace". I must ask. Was this just a pleasantry or are you serious about becoming an ally of Babylon? I believe my people would be more that receptive to such an arrangement. If not an alliance, Babylon remains committed to our current state of peace and looks forward to building a strong trade partnership with our friends The Lost Boys. Your ally in peace, -Skrobism Vox Inannum Babylonian Minister of Lost Boys Affairs

Let's hope that he is not too tight with DR.

	13-07-2005 10:24									#110
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Ask them if they will be getting Monothesim from DR and if they would be willing to work on a future tech deal of Theology for Engineering? Or maybe Feudalism (with NTA-Non Trade Agreement) for Mono?

Ask about retrade conditions, as we would as that they would NOT retrade some techs and others would be negotiable, on a turn after trade number (10 turns is a good thing to work with).

Also, see if you can point out to them, that we have a great research rate potential, with our cheaper Libraries and higher trade balance, if they want to possibly help (instead of persuing their own technology for trade) our research efforts, cash for techs, on a turn by turn basis (help fund our research)?

E_T

	13-07-2005 11:01									#111
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quote: Minister Skrobism, In light of the Blood Oath Horde's recent peace treaty with Desolation Row, I am no longer interested in sharing information on troop movements. At the moment I can not see a single Desolator anywhere on my map, but that is the last you will hear from me on the matter. I am most assuredly your ally in peace. If you ever wish to engage such a policy you can count on my full support and friendship. I will not however align myself with one who participates in unprovoked aggression as you currently do. Your ally in Peace, Lord Nosferatu

	13-07-2005 18:55									#112
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Thanks Kloreep. I'll get right back to him.

	13-07-2005 19:29									#113
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Just sent the following.

quote: Lord Nosferatu, Babylon appreciates your candor in all these matters. Please note that the Blood Oath Horde did not sign a peace treaty with the Desolators, that we know of, yet. We were taken aback by this turn of events. On one hand, the TNA DR war is hopefully over. Babylon was pushing TNA to lay something on the Peace Table that you set for us. On the other hand BOH has played us like pawns, we lost out on a possible strong scientific trading partner in the Desolators. On our own, the aggression towards DR by Babylon would seem to be unprovoked. But, I tell you we sent what we could spare to support 'friends' in need. The battle plans were drawn up by BOH despite what is claimed in the cease fire thread by BOH. It was BOH that directed us to our 'poorly' defended target. It was BOH that gave Euphorica the OK to begin the diversionary attack. Do you really believe that we would try to start a war with 4 horseman in a land that could barely be seen on our maps? No. We were only there to show support for the alliance. There were to be many scientific benefits to this long term relationship for Babylon, and it would only cost us a few horses. Oh we were fools. It is obvious that the TNA is finished. We are in discussions with our friends Euphorica, but I would not count on Babylonian troops fighting in wars so far from home again. Euphorica and Desolation Row have their border dispute. They will need to work that out. I don't think saying that would come as a surprise to Euphorica. They knew our troop strength. They knew what our commitment was. It was to hold up the scientific side of thing. BOH wanted us to prove it with blood - a blood oath. I see now what that meant to the honorless barbarians. I would not be surprised if BOH, AM (they have a peace ROP that Babylon pushed for with BOH), and DR come knocking on my door next. I know this all sounds like sour grapes, but I want you to see just how far Babylon will go for a friend. Watch for an official statement from Babylon soon. We really did believe that this war would bring Music, Honor, and Love to our world. Your Ally in Peace, -Skrobism Vox Inannum Babylonian Minister of Lost Boys Affairs

BOH can not get away with spinning us as aggressors!

	13-07-2005 21:57									#115
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from 1889 to Beta:

quote: Beta, it is good to hear from you again. Before this terrible misunderstanding Desolation Row and myself contacted you about establishing closer relations. I hope that goal is now within sight. Thank you for the offer of Feudalism. Considering how recent war was it is a magnanimous gesture. I plan however to save my gold to buy Republic from the Desolators. My harbor will be done soon and I look forward to opening trade. Lord Nosferatu

	13-07-2005 22:08									#116
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Beta,
Is it time for you to contact the Desolators and explain this little 'misunderstanding'; or do we have the Lost boys bring that about?

	13-07-2005 22:09									#117
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I sure hope this duplicity of BoH is obvious to others, but we can't assume so. I agree that we need to mount a PR campaign.

	13-07-2005 22:14									#118
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I will contact DR this afternoon. Maybe a little of skro's magic will have rubbed off on me.

	13-07-2005 23:34									#119
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Can we please hold off on contacting DR? In the chat, Euphorica told us BOH had agreed to hold the save, and that Euphorica would try some more to convince BOH to follow through.

TNA is not necessarily finished yet, and we could well become the breakers of the alliance if we act too fast only to find BOH turning around and attacking DR after all.

	13-07-2005 23:37									#120
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Not to mention that Euphorica has stated they don't have much choice about going along with BOH (rushing for Chivalry and attacking DR again is their stated plan). They do not wish to end TNA, and neither does BOH if they are to be believed.

Not to mention that BOH aside, if we pull out without making sure Euphorica is on the road to peace or agreement with DR, we may well be throwing them to the DR wolves. Euphorica certainly doesn't deserve that.