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DaShi
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The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It appears you take everything out of context, since it's so unimportant to you. |
I havne't a clue what you a talking about. I know that I'm opening myself up to more insults by you, but you use so many non sequiturs that you are entirely unclear. The "context" is fairly obvious and irrelevant to what you seemed to be trying to prove. So what are you talking about?
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You have comprehension problems. What does official mean to you? |
"JAPAN’S prime ministers and its emperor have apologised to China for the brutal conduct of the occupying Japanese army in the 1930s-1940s on no fewer than 17 occasions. . ."
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Japan still hasn't made any official apologies. Oh, just in case you don't understand, let me repeat it for you. Japan still hasn't made any official apologies. |
"JAPAN’S prime ministers and its emperor have apologised to China for the brutal conduct of the occupying Japanese army in the 1930s-1940s on no fewer than 17 occasions. . ."
Now feel free to contest that statment, but that is not what you did before. You denied they exist with no evidence disproving the above statement, which fits your own qualifications of what an official apology must be.
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I can't help you if you have personal problems. |
I believe that was directed at you. Insulting me will not change the fact that you are being deceptive. At least, I am giving you credit for playing dumb. I don't believe that you actually are.
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I somehow don't think you are an authority on contemporary Chinese usage. |
If I'm wrong, please prove it. I've already confirmed my translation with mainland nationals as well as in a published dictionary. So yes, I challenge your definition; however, I may concede that in some dialects it may be translated like that. Where I am, no.
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This is your perception. So, you proved my point. |
But you made concrete claims that had nothing to do with perception. This is not arguing. You are not defending yourself.
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That China meddles with other countries internal affairs? Funny thing. |
That has nothing to do with your statement. The issue of Taiwain is contested, therefore you can not use it as an example of meddling in internal affairs. Just because a foreign country does something to upset another foriegn country doesn't make the upset country wrong. This is bizarre logic, where you seem to be placing China in a higher position than any other nation.
France tried to prevent the US from invading Iraq. Do you think France was stupid for doing so?
The point I made is that you are showing a double standard. That might now have been what you meant, but that's what you wrote.
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Tingkai is absolutely right about you. |
Tingkai only insults me for no reason other than he can not challenge my points. Hence most of his responses are, "You're an idiot and wrong." If this is the type of class you'd like to be associated with, you're welcome to it.
Frankly, I think you need to relax and think about what you are writing. The point I made last was that you sound exactly like a CCP syncophant whose own warped logic is failing him. Your responses further demonstrate this as you decend lower and lower toward insults and utter nonsense. So relax. China isn't perfect, but it can weather some criticism. Silence can often be more effective than posting weak arguments that look like your trying to cover up or distract us from something.
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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:35
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Ok. Three weekends of protest. The Chinese govt is saying that further protests aren't allowed. No one can seriously claim that this about textbooks. This is about hatred towards Japanese.
Last edited by Kidicious on 17-04-2005 at 06:41
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:35
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Chinese nationalism is a big worry - nothing like US belligerent militarism yet - but if the Chinese start acting like the US internationally - unilateralism was such a bad idea- we are in big trouble - war in East Asia is not unthinkable.
The big problem here is Taiwan because both the US and China have effectively made themselves hostage to fairly unpredictable minor state with a mercurial head of state. This is not a good idea people - remember Serbia, remember Poland. Similar scenarios. Imagine how these Chinese nationalists are going to react if Taiwan declares independence. Or North Korea is bombed for that matter....and then there are the Spratleys...so many flash points around China.
Remember how some of the more retarded nationalist US posters around here like Shi Huangdi thought it was so important for the US to defend Taiwan?
Now we see China mending fences with India - some sort of international coalition against the US is possible.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 17-04-2005 at 03:41
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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If the US withdrew its support for Tiawan but continued to sell them weapons, could Tiawan defend itself against China? China would still have to get across the straights...
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:35
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Excellent Salon.com article Mindseye. It really does explain tings pretty clearly both China's historical weakness visa via the rest of the world and its status as kicking dog for the more powerful countries as well as the Chinese people's endless victimization by their own governments. Those very same governments endlessly play up and propogandize the foreign intrusions in order to redirect people's attentions away from the as bad (if not worse) suffer China's leaders have caused (and are continuing to cause) in China. 
An portion I really liked was:
quote:
But there is another underground river flowing into this subterranean reservoir that Chinese themselves rarely discuss, perhaps because its implications are even more humiliating than foreign predation. While China was indisputedly abused by foreigners, it has also been equally abused by itself and its own leaders who have so frequently been as savage as the worst foreign imperialists.
Who can forget the tens of millions dead as a result of Mao's Great Leap Forward, the anguish brought to intellectuals "sent down" in the anti-rightist movement, the insanity and brutality of the Cultural Revolution and the savagery of the crackdown on the "counter-revolutionary turmoil" of l989?
What could be more ruinous to China's stature and national pride than having to defend as "the correct line" its virtual colonization of Tibet; murderous leaders such as Kang Sheng, Lin Biao and even Mao himself; the arrest of millions of its own citizens for nonviolent protest; the gratuitous shooting of missiles toward "fellow compatriots" on Taiwan; and support for the likes of Serbia's Slobodan Milosevic, North Korea's Kim Il-sung and Burma's military junta?
Each of these self-inflicted insults heaped as much ignominy on China as any foreign intrusion. And they left many Chinese filled with a quotient of repressed resentment that they would have, if they had been permitted to, addressed against their own government.
Alas, this combination of abuse from within and without has only tended to make China more jingoistic and nationalistic. [/b]After all, when misrule occurs at home, emphasizing injury at the hands of foreigners and exporting blame for one's afflictions is a convenient way to distract attention from the real issues.[/b] |
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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The big question is why has Japan been so intent on provoking S. Korea and China in the past couple of months?
Consider that Japan has:
- declared Taiwan a common strategic objective
- made claims for tiny islands owned by S. Korea
- approved textbooks that Japan knew would piss off SK and China
- Blocked China's entry into the intra-American development bank
- approved gas exploration in an area claimed by China
- announced plans to change its constitution to a less pacificist document.
Very unusual.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by mindseye
I asked one of my better-informed classes (mostly young white collars) what percent of Japanese schools used the textbook in question.
Those with an opinion thought probably 100% did. |
If the German government gave official approval to a textbook that denied the Holocaust, would it matter if one or a 1,000 schools used the book?
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:35
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In my observation, there is genuine hatred of the Japanese by the Chinese, Koreans and other Asians, but strangely, not by the Formosans, many of whom seen to remember the era of Japanese government as an era of good government. This hatred, so long after the war, can only be caused by the severity of the cruelity of Japanese army, which, in turn, had its source in some form of racism. The underlying hatred continues, I suggest, because the Chinese and other victims perceive that the underlying racism persists.
I think the Japanese have to seriously examine what they did in China and elsewhere to understand why they could behave in such monsterous ways to other people. If the answers to these questions points to racism, as I think it does, then the Japanese have to do a lot more than they have to rid their mentality of these ideas.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Crazy man with nukes who the South Koreans have a pathological need to appease might have something to do with that one. |
The Japanese have faced bigger threats before.
The question isn't why. It's why all of this now?
It suggests that the Japanese are being deliberately provocative, possibly pressuring China and SK to push NK.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
No, the Japanese government just approved NEW books. |
No, they didn't. It's the latest revision of a history textbook that is already in use. They revise history books every 4 years.
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The books have been changed, therefore they are a NEW edition with NEW lies and a NEW government-approved attempt to teach Japanese children that Japan was the victim in WWII.
Yes, the Japanese government has cover up atrocities in the past, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a new attempt to re-write history.
It still comes back to the fact that the Japanese government knew full well that approving these new textbooks would piss of China and S. Korea.
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DaShi
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The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
No, the Japanese government just approved NEW books. It did so knowing full well that it would piss off its neighbors. |
For more mindreading fun. . .
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And get over it? I suppose you think that Jewish people are just a bunch of whiners because they want people to remember the horrors of the Holocaust. |
They normally don't whine about it or stage protests, even in response to the deniers, which include quite a few Chinese.
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The Japanese have faced bigger threats before. |
Not without a military force, they haven't.
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The question isn't why. It's why all of this now? |
And it's not getting any better. With NK claiming nukes and China's ever expanding territorial claim (along with threats to use military force in some instances), Japan has ever right to feel nervous. Personally, the best thing they should do is suck it up and apologize. But whether they do or not, they have every right to defend themselves.
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It suggests that the Japanese are being deliberately provocative, possibly pressuring China and SK to push NK. |
I don't see how you can reach that conclusion. Provoking China and SK is not going to pressure them to control NK. In fact, I don't see any deliberate attempts to provoke. This is politics as normal for Japan over the last fifty years. In fact, it's normal politics for many countries. China's just trying to play the victim card to gain political advantage.
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16-04-2005 08:33
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