 |
| |
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
It still comes back to the fact that the Japanese government knew full well that approving these new textbooks would piss of China and S. Korea. |
Again, they had little choice. Japan is a free country, unlike China, and censorship doesn't fly there.
|
The Japanese government had a choice. It could have refused to give its stamp of approval, as it has in the past.
The publisher would be free to print the book, but it would not be part of the official cirriculum.
Not surprisingly, the books that re-write history get official approval from the government. Books that provided a balanced view get rejected.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kidicious
|
 |
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
The big question is why has Japan been so intent on provoking S. Korea and China in the past couple of months?
Consider that Japan has:
- declared Taiwan a common strategic objective
- made claims for tiny islands owned by S. Korea
- approved textbooks that Japan knew would piss off SK and China
- Blocked China's entry into the intra-American development bank
- approved gas exploration in an area claimed by China
- announced plans to change its constitution to a less pacificist document.
Very unusual. |
If China is provoked by these things it's because they are trying to bully. Japan is simply looking after their own interests.
Last edited by Kidicious on 18-04-2005 at 21:12
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
The publisher would be free to print the book, but it would not be part of the official cirriculum. |
It's not part of any "official curriculum". Japan doesn't have an official curriculum. The government approves books for use and then individual schools choose the books they want to make up their curriculum. Only .1% percent of Japanese junior high schools have chosen to use this particular book. |
This is a new book, first written in 2001, and the latest edition was only recently approved so it is not surprising that it is just beginning to be used. (How many books published in 2001 would be in use in North American schools).
The number of schools using it is besides the point anyways.
This is a book officially approved for use in schools by the Japanese government. Japan is trying to whitewash its crimes.
Meanwhile, the Japanese government has fought for decades to censor a textbook written by Ienaga Saburo which describes the atrocities committed by the Japanese. He won a partial victory in 1997 that allowed his textbook to mention the Japanese biological warfare torture, but the Japanese government still has the power to censor textbooks, including Saburo's book.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
If China is provoked by these things it's because they are trying to bully. Japan is simply looking after their own interests. |
Bully? Hardly. Japan is pouring salt into an open wound that it caused.
The question is why has Japan chosen to do so much to alienate South Korea and China. Japan knew what would happen.
Why is Japan causing so much trouble in the region.
It has much to lose, what does it have to gain?
If it wanted a seat on the UN Security Council, pissing off China certainly wasn't the way to get it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Japan isn't causing trouble. China is. |
Ah yes, there was a secret Chinese conspiracy that:
- forced the Japanese to whitewash its crimes;
- forced the Japanese to lay claim to South Korean islands;
- forced the Japanese to kill millions in China and the rest of Asia during WWII;
- and so on and so on.
The fact that you blame the Chinese for the Japanese provocations shows your true colours.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Even if so, at a minimum, you will have to admit that judgment should be reserved until sales figures have been released on this textbook. |
You would have to admit that it would be wrong for the German government to officially approve a textbook that denies the Holocaust. Likewise, you would have to admit it is wrong for the Japanese to approve a schoolbook that denies its crimes against humanity.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drake Tungsten
|
 |
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:35
|
|
quote:
Any Japanese protesting? |
Not that I know of. A few anonymous threats to the Chinese embassy and consulates, but that's about it.
quote:
Bad for the region this. |
Indeed. I have to wonder if the Chinese really got what they wanted out of this...
Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 19-04-2005 at 05:02
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DaShi
|
 |
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
This is a new book, first written in 2001, and the latest edition was only recently approved so it is not surprising that it is just beginning to be used. (How many books published in 2001 would be in use in North American schools).
The number of schools using it is besides the point anyways. |
Then why did you make such a big deal about it?
quote:
This is a book officially approved for use in schools by the Japanese government. Japan is trying to whitewash its crimes. |
This is a rather large leap in logic, especially to condemn entire people.
quote:
Meanwhile, the Japanese government has fought for decades to censor a textbook written by Ienaga Saburo which describes the atrocities committed by the Japanese. He won a partial victory in 1997 that allowed his textbook to mention the Japanese biological warfare torture, but the Japanese government still has the power to censor textbooks, including Saburo's book. |
All governments censor textbooks. Seems to me the Chinese should be showing support for those in Japan like Saburo and his defenders rather than engaging in violent protests asking for Japanese blood, which only feeds to right-wing extremists in Japan.
quote:
Ah yes, there was a secret Chinese conspiracy that:
- forced the Japanese to whitewash its crimes; |
The level of this whitewash is in debate along with the type of response given by the Chinese at this time.
quote:
- forced the Japanese to lay claim to South Korean islands; |
Again, this is a debatable claim. Why isn't it being debated?
quote:
- forced the Japanese to kill millions in China and the rest of Asia during WWII; |
And that was over fifty years ago. Again, what were the Chinese doing during the first half of that period? Frankly, I feel that if China asks for an apology, Japan should just give it. What Japan did was simply wrong. However, time does heal wounds, Japan has spent the last fifty years engaging in peaceful policies while respecting its own rights, including that to exist. However, neighbors, like China (especially China) have become more militaristic and hostile, beoming the country they despise. But that Japan is long gone.
quote:
- and so on and so on. |
This is vague.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
M Y
G O D !
Get over it. This is today. I don't care what happened 60 years ago. Anybody can bring up a bunch of **** from the past to start spreading hate for their own benefit. That doesn't make it right. |
Talk about irony. You sound just like the Beijing leaders who you despise. Every June 4, the pro-Beijing groups scream "get over it! What may have happened on June 4, 1989 is in the past.''
Last Sunday, pro-democracy groups, who are no friends of the Beijing government, held an anti-Japan protest. They did so for the same reason that they hold Tianamien memorials every June 4.
They are protesting something that is happening today, the whitewashing of history. And they are remembering the past.
It is one thing to forgive a country's past crimes, but when that country then denies those crimes took place, a new tragedy occurs.
For you, the Japanese atrocities are probably just some footnote in history. For many people here, the crimes committed by the Japanese are part of people's tragic family history. People here have relatives who were murdered or raped by the Japanese. People here witnessed the crimes or were victims.
You may not care about what happened in the past, but people here do care. Perhaps you should respect their feelings and try to understand why they are angry.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DaShi
|
|
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Last Sunday, pro-democracy groups, who are no friends of the Beijing government, held an anti-Japan protest. They did so for the same reason that they hold Tianamien memorials every June 4. |
I seem to remember the Tiannanmen Square protest as peaceful and not calling for the death of a specific race of people. So I don't think that is a fair comparison, and it shows little respect for the true meaning of the Tiannanmen protests.
quote:
It is one thing to forgive a country's past crimes, but when that country then denies those crimes took place, a new tragedy occurs. |
Again, you are blaming an entire country when you, yourself, offered evidence that this topic is just as controversial among the Japanese. Why are you so determined to blame them all?
quote:
For you, the Japanese atrocities are probably just some footnote in history. For many people here, the crimes committed by the Japanese are part of people's tragic family history. People here have relatives who were murdered or raped by the Japanese. People here witnessed the crimes or were victims.
You may not care about what happened in the past, but people here do care. Perhaps you should respect their feelings and try to understand why they are angry. |
Most of the protestors never directly experienced any violence from Japan. They were all college students. So they weren't the victims. In fact, none of my students could give me examples of direct suffering their relatives went through under the Japanese. However, they will just fall silent, if they're asked about the Cultural Revolution.
I agee what the Japanese did was terrible. I do believe that the Japanese have shown a sincere regret for their history, but also, that more could be done on their part to heal these wounds. I do not agree with the Chinese government using this a tool for political ends. That shames the memory of those who died. Nor do I agree with the students using this an opportunity to express racism and violence.
Franky Tingkai, you've made a lot of assumptions about the motivations and thoughts of the Chinese, Japanese, and posters on this forum without backing them up. Your posts contain little more than anti-japanese vitriol and show an extreme lack of understanding of what goes on in Asia, especially mainland China. I'm sorry for being blunt (and I can already predict your response to me), but it's really difficult to sugarcoat a description of your actions on this forum. This isn't the only thread where you've shown blind loyalty toward China and attacked other posters because of it. I'm only surprised a mod has never intervened.
Last edited by DaShi on 19-04-2005 at 18:25
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.
Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
18-04-2005 17:42
|