28-05-2005 04:15									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Mace I think your list is about right except that I think the Zulus are in and Spain is out. ?? Maybe the "just the facts m'am" thread has definite information?

Well, I think the Malinese are the Zulu substitute.

	28-05-2005 06:23									#92
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I think they'll have both.

	28-05-2005 07:48									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I think they'll have both.

That would certainly be interesting.

	28-05-2005 07:53									#94
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Africa would finally have a few civs in it.

	28-05-2005 08:10									#95
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No kidding.

In my opinion, Carthage and Egypt only really count as African civs geographically, being associated more with the middle eastern cultural group.

With Africa filling up, theat would leave only South America and Australia empty. (Well, the Incas would be in South America, but you get the idea.)

	28-05-2005 08:17									#96
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South America is difficult to settle because of all the Jungle, so that's not as much of a problem as it seems. Australia should be empty, IMO.

	28-05-2005 08:20									#97
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I suppose that makes sense. It wasn't really colonized until the British came in the 18th and 19th centuries, and the Aborigines, I'm sorry to say, were still living rather primitively.

Though if scholar Gavin Menzies is to be believed, the Chinese reached Australia ever so briefly in the 1420s.

	28-05-2005 08:21									#98
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Then they can send a settler there

	28-05-2005 08:35									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Then they can send a settler there

Humorous thought!

	29-05-2005 15:51									#100
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According to the "What´s in Civ 4"-thread. These are the 16 confirmed civs as seen in screen shots or mentioned in blurbs and interviews.

Americans
Chinese
Egyptians
English
French
Germans
Incans
Indians
Japanese
Malinese
Mongols
Persians
Romans
Russians
Spanish

In addition we´re likely to see two of these three:

Arabs
Aztecs
Babylonians

I miss quite a few civs, which I think should be in. But you have to draw the line somewhere I suppose. After all, you have to save some civs for the expansion. But leaving the greeks out (the fathers of modern democracy) in favor of another ancient civ is a rather stunning descision

The civs I think should be added in the first x-pack is The Greeks (of course), the Vikings, the Celts and the Khmer/Angkor civ (any civ that can build Angkor Wat and similar structures deserves a place in Civ). Likewise the Mayans and the Karanga (Old Zimbabwe) deserve a place.

	29-05-2005 16:00									#101
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I think the Aztec flag was noted as well in a screenshot. Their sign seems to be their calendar on the flag. But nothing of the Incans sofar.
But the same can be said from the Babylonians (for the flag).

	29-05-2005 19:21									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg I miss quite a few civs, which I think should be in. But you have to draw the line somewhere I suppose. After all, you have to save some civs for the expansion. But leaving the greeks out (the fathers of modern democracy) in favor of another ancient civ is a rather stunning descision

And it probably means that your sources are wrong. There's only slightly less chance of having the Greeks in than the Americans.

	29-05-2005 20:29									#103
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Why some people think America should be out of game? Well I guess if America is out of game then it's set 4000 B.C to 1800 A.D and no Air Power, No nuclear Power, no computers, no Technology than 1800 A.D,

	29-05-2005 20:57									#104
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Hah!

Great Britain came up with the computer, actually.
Colossus helped the Allies win WW2 by breaking nazi codes.

We Brits have had the fair share of bright ideas.
The Jet Engine, and Steam Engine, and almost every important
invention before 1945...And 65% of all innovations afterwards.

But for the record, I want to see the Americans in the game.

	29-05-2005 21:07									#105
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The brits didn't come up with the computer before 1800, though.

	29-05-2005 21:53									#106
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Who is micromanagering the game after 1700 anyway? =)

And yes, want to see americans in the game - how else could I moan about that they are in!

	29-05-2005 22:55									#107
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The world's first jet plane was built by Nazi-Germany, although Hitler decided to use those excellent fighters as bombers.

	29-05-2005 23:00									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker And it probably means that your sources are wrong. There's only slightly less chance of having the Greeks in than the Americans.

My source is Locutus, but he could be wrong I suppose... The omitting of the greeks does sound more than a bit strange...

	29-05-2005 23:07									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai The world's first jet plane was built by Nazi-Germany, although Hitler decided to use those excellent fighters as bombers.

Ah, yes the Me-262. Properly used these planes could have seriously hampered the allied war effort. But what can you expect from a meddling nutcase such as Hitler?

	29-05-2005 23:47									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai The world's first jet plane was built by Nazi-Germany, although Hitler decided to use those excellent fighters as bombers.

Actually, the Germans did use those as fighters. But they had very few planes, and there was too little fuel for the ones that were there (remember it was special fuel). So, while terridic for the enemy when they showed up, the Me-262 had little relevance to the outcome of the war. Superior numbers won.

	30-05-2005 00:14									#111
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I work best leading seafaring and scientific civilizations.

	30-05-2005 00:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Actually, the Germans did use those as fighters. But they had very few planes, and there was too little fuel for the ones that were there (remember it was special fuel). So, while terridic for the enemy when they showed up, the Me-262 had little relevance to the outcome of the war. Superior numbers won.

True, after the allied bombings of the Ploiesti oil fields in Romania, Germanys main supplier of oil, there was a serious shortage. But even when they were in the air, they had problems. Flown as they were by inexperienced pilots. Not to mention they were basically sitting ducks during take off, due to the slow start of the engines. They were also forced to use only concrete runways, since the jet flame melted the asphalt runways...

	30-05-2005 00:47									#113
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Inexperienced pilots? Why would that be surprising? 't Was a prototype. And tell me a plane that isn't a sitting duck at take off.

	30-05-2005 02:12									#114
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I would argue that while desperate designs like the He162
were indeed flown by rookie hitler youth cannon fodder,
the Me262 was actually flown by some of the most deadly
aces of the German airforces. But by 1944-45 this plane
made precious little difference overall.

	30-05-2005 02:26									#115
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This is slightly off-topic.

	30-05-2005 03:50									#116
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Only slightly...

And by 1944 the Me262 was no longer a prototype. It had been developed since 1939, and was by 1944 a fully fledged jet fighter. And as far as the inexperienced pilots go it´s true that there were a bunch of fighter aces flying but many of Luftwaffes aces had been killed or captured during the war. Thus inexperienced pilots had to fly the Me 262 and flying an aircraft with performance greater than any operated before would have been a challenge even to more professional aviators.

	30-05-2005 03:56									#117
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder And tell me a plane that isn't a sitting duck at take off.

But this plane was even more so, since the jet engines needed more warm up time than the propeller driven Me 109s for instance.

	30-05-2005 06:27									#118
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Was there a reason that this warming up couldn't happen in it's hangar (or shelter, or whatever they used at that stage to avoid easy detection by allied patrols)?

	30-05-2005 09:01									#119
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You know, considering how omnipresent the Greeks are in other games of the genre, it's rather strange that they wouldn't be in Civ4.

The Greeks are like the quintessential Civ! In fact, my bet is that the Incans are NOT in, and that the Greeks definitely ARE.

Ach! Controversy!

Last edited by Alexander01 on 30-05-2005 at 10:39

	30-05-2005 10:37									#120
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Some Theorized Leaders:

Arabs: Abu Bakr, Omar, not Muhammad (Muslim Blasphemy?)
Babylonians: Hammurabi or Nebuchadnezzar
Egyptians: Ramses (in addition to Hatshepsut?)
Greeks: Alexander, Pericles
Incans: Atahualpa or Pachacuti
Russians; Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Lenin or Stalin
Spanish: Isabella, Ferdinand, Philip II or El Cid?


and who the heck would the Malinese have???