07-07-2005 19:42									#241
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I dont entirely understand why they don't persue individual attacks, but I guess maybe its because they seem more intimidating when they're in groups.

	07-07-2005 19:43									#242
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Police briefing said something about a bomb blast blowing thru a wall, affecting 3 trains? If so, that's a powerful bomb.

My sympathies to all who have loved ones in the area, hoping for minimal casualties.

****

	07-07-2005 19:43									#243
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quote: Come on... anarchists and anti-globalists are relatively harmless, they'd never do something like this, nor do they have the means to organize that.

Remember the WTO-riots in seattle?

	07-07-2005 19:45									#244
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You guys in England have my sympathy.

	07-07-2005 19:46									#245
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot I dont entirely understand why they don't persue individual attacks, but I guess maybe its because they seem more intimidating when they're in groups.

I have thought of that as well, since these sorts of systems would seem to be the best possible targets of all- a single bomb on a crowded underground tunnel would be higher than anywhere else, and you can cripple an entire metropolis with one attack.

At the same time, the single individual might have a much harder time securing explosives. Of course, that does not deter some guy with a pipe bomb which doesn;t mean you need to get your hands on hard to get explosives.

	07-07-2005 19:47									#246
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Remember the WTO-riots in seattle?

Riots and bombings are two utterly separate things.

	07-07-2005 19:49									#247
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Remember the WTO-riots in seattle?

Oh yeah, like that's the same thing.

	07-07-2005 19:50									#248
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quote: Riots and bombings are two utterly separate things.

Both can be deadly. And as we remember from our history classes, the first 'terrorists' were anarchists making bombs in the early 1900's and shooting world leaders...
-
As I was stating, that was my initial impression- considering how important G8 is to anarchist/anti-globalist groups.

Frankly, I wouldn't expect militant islamists to disrupt a summit that had little to do with them and a lot to do with the good of the world, but apparently- they did.

	07-07-2005 19:50									#249
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quote: Originally posted by GePap At the same time, the single individual might have a much harder time securing explosives.

Well assuming terrorists work in cells, the entire cell could work together to plan the attack, and then just send off one guy with one bomb.

	07-07-2005 19:50									#250
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Timothy McVie may or may not have had accomplices, but in the end, one guy did a lot of damage in Oklahoma City.

	07-07-2005 19:51									#251
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lotfm, to fight terrorism you need INFORMATION, no look for unatended bags in buses. If the terrorist has the bomb ready it is becuase security has already failed and it is TOO late.

For the terrorist the difficult and dangerous part is to remain unsuspected, to get the explosives and organice it all. It is in this phase when police can do something. Go out and plant the bombs is easy even for a child.

	07-07-2005 19:52									#252
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I have thought of that as well, since these sorts of systems would seem to be the best possible targets of all- a single bomb on a crowded underground tunnel would be higher than anywhere else, and you can cripple an entire metropolis with one attack.

that was the question that came up after 9/11. If, as was claimed, they had dozens of cells in country, and those cells were a wasting asset (given LE pursuit, detentions, etc) why not use them for random acts of violence, shootings, low level bombings, to add to the panic? But it didnt happen. The conclusion being either they were so well hidden they saw no danger from LE, or they simply didnt have that many cells.

My belief is that their assets IN the US, EU, etc are in fact scarce, and quite valuable. They are not going to use them on anything less than a headline grabbing attack, which means a coordinated multiple attack. Besides, with a single attack, a govt might get away with the Aznar strategy of denying its AQ.

	07-07-2005 19:52									#253
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The only problem arises when people either

a: think they won't get caught.
or
b: don't care about getting caught.

If those two variables don't exist- then it's possible to stop terrorism before it begins. If those two variables exist, then it's impossible to stop terrorism by any conventional ways of deterrence.

	07-07-2005 19:53									#254
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Both can be deadly.

So can a stampede in a concert. Your point?

Besides, NO ONE died in Seattle. IN fact, the ONLY death I can think of at one of those riots was when the Italian POLICE shot a protestor.

quote: As I was stating, that was my initial impression- considering how important G8 is to anarchist/anti-globalist groups. Frankly, I wouldn't expect militant islamists to disrupt a summit that had little to do with them and a lot to do with the good of the world, but apparently- they did.

Just by the fact that the leaders of the rich west are there the G* has meaning to the Islamist terrorist.

	07-07-2005 19:53									#255
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33 deaths

	07-07-2005 19:54									#256
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Just a thought- for all the London based 'Poly posters allowed to donate blood- why not see if there's somewhere you can do so ?


I would, but the N.H.S. deems my blood unfit for use.

Attachment: blood.jpg
This has been downloaded 232 time(s).

	07-07-2005 19:55									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Thorgal lotfm, to fight terrorism you need INFORMATION, no look for unatended bags in buses. If the terrorist has the bomb ready it is becuase security has already failed and it is TOO late. For the terrorist the difficult and dangerous part is to remain unsuspected, to get the explosives and organice it all. It is in this phase when police can do something. Go out and plant the bombs is easy even for a child.

I agree with you about the BEST way to stop it. But I dont think we should give up on the final line of defense, which is all of us folks who ride trains and buses, and who have eyes and ears.

	07-07-2005 19:56									#258
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Timothy McVie may or may not have had accomplices, but in the end, one guy did a lot of damage in Oklahoma City.

That bomb was , IIRC fertilizers and gas. Those things are much easier to come by in rural areas than in urban areas in the necessary amounts. I think maybe also the stink of such a device in a bag would be a big giveaway in a crowded station.

	07-07-2005 19:57									#259
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Frankly, I wouldn't expect militant islamists to disrupt a summit that had little to do with them and a lot to do with the good of the world, but apparently- they did.

They don't see it way- they see it as Western neo-imperialism.

	07-07-2005 19:58									#260
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Now it seems that what happen was:

- Bus onboard a doudble decker in Tavistock Square, near Russel Square. Could be just about any line, but they refered to Airport Express which has that line from Russel Square to Heathrow.
- Bomb onboard Circle Line train near Edgware Road, en route to Paddington.
- Bomb onboard Picadilly Line train near Aldgate.
- Bomb onboard some tube train near Liverpool Street. Haven't figured out which line.

	07-07-2005 19:58									#261
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I would, but the N.H.S. deems my blood unfit for use.

Don't get me started -- here in our free republic democracy, the Red Cross still has its stupid, bigoted policy as well.

	07-07-2005 19:59									#262
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I agree with you about the BEST way to stop it. But I dont think we should give up on the final line of defense, which is all of us folks who ride trains and buses, and who have eyes and ears.

I can assure you there are regular warnings on London Underground and London Transport and the overland railway system about unattended bags and what will happen to them.

There are warning posters on the tube system, both in carriages and on the walls of the stations themselves.

Since it isn't clear yet whether or not this was a suicide bombing or not we should wait for further information.

	07-07-2005 19:59									#263
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Even tho the timing with the summit is impecable, I'm starting to believe that whatever terrorist group did this didn't care about what day it was on.

In the past, have the dates the terrorists chosen have any reason to be those days, or were they just apparently random?

	07-07-2005 20:00									#264
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Righty, I grasped it wrong. Here's an exact list of tube incidents:

quote: At 09:46, the London Underground was suspended and all stations commenced evacuation following incidents at: Aldgate station heading towards Liverpool Street station on the Hammersmith & City line; Russell Square station heading towards Kings Cross station on the Piccadilly line; and Edgware Road station heading towards Paddington station on the Hammersmith & City line.

	07-07-2005 20:01									#265
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7/7?

	07-07-2005 20:02									#266
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quote: They don't see it way- they see it as Western neo-imperialism.

That's a somewhat incorrect thought on the terrorists' side- but I can see how they reached that conclusion. *sigh*

---
Gepap-
I guess you missed the little bit I edited into my post a minute or two after I made it: "And as we remember from our history classes, the first 'terrorists' were anarchists making bombs in the early 1900's and shooting world leaders..."

	07-07-2005 20:03									#267
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Official figures

On the three tube incidents:

33 Dead, 45 Serious Injuries, 300 Minor Injuries

No confirmations of the bus casualties yet.

Could have been a lot worse.

	07-07-2005 20:04									#268
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot In the past, have the dates the terrorists chosen have any reason to be those days, or were they just apparently random?

Given the bizarro-world logic and belief systems of terrorists, anything's possible.

It's possible some froth-mouthed Islam perverting murderer blew him or herself up today five years ago, but how could anyone sane be expected to keep check...

	07-07-2005 20:07									#269
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quote: It's possible some froth-mouthed Islam perverting murderer blew him or herself up today five years ago, but how could anyone sane be expected to keep check...

Or that the trial of one of the leading Islamist figures in England started on Tuesday...

	07-07-2005 20:09									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It's possible some froth-mouthed Islam perverting murderer blew him or herself up today five years ago, but how could anyone sane be expected to keep check... Or that the trial of one of the leading Islamist figures in England started on Tuesday...

Then why a bomb on Thursday?