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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 21:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Has there yet been any instance of people starving to death, dispite the claims?


No, but quite a few died of dehydration. You're from the South, you know what the heat's like down here.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 21:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by CapTVK
From what I've so far most of the news reportion has been 20% fact and 80% opinion thrown in.


On Sunday Morning the "MC" (for lack of a better word right now) had been there and said that the situation there was worse than what the TV can show.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:08
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark


I suspect Blanco (?) is a DLC type 3rd way dem, but Id be surprised that Nagin is. Of course if you consider Slate a conservative magazine


From what I understand, Nagin was a Republican who switched to being a democrat to better his odds for the mayoral race.

He also contributed to Bush's campaign in 2000.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:11 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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According to one of the morning shows, the wind never topped 100/mph in NOLA. That's a CAT 2 storm! The levies are supposed to be able to hold that!

This wasn't a worst case scenario. This was just a total **** up.

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
Warlord
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:16
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quote:
You're from the South, you know what the heat's like down here.


I have pointed this out in several threads.

Though I haven't seen any reports of people dieing of this either. All the deaths I have heard about are directly from the flooding/winds/collapsing buildings/storm surge, nothing fromt he aftermath.

And the levies did not break because of the hurricane itself, whatever CAT it was. The flooding along the Mississipi as the storm moved in is what broke the WEAKER levies on the inland side. The seaside levies withstood the hurricane as designed.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Then you haven't been looking too hard. It's been in The Broward Sun-Sentinal and The Miami Herald.

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
Warlord
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:24
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You mean "reports" of blah blah blah....

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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No, I don't.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:35
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I'll ask again, since I never got an answer:

Do we have any pre-hurricane estimates of the number of homeless who were living in New Orleans?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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According to what I can find, about 12,000 to 13,000.

quote:
Project Description

The New Orleans Health Care for the Homeless Program (HCHP) operates a primary health care clinic in the

central business district and an adolescent drop-in clinic in the French Quarter area.

Services

Services include medications, x-rays, lab tests, TB tests, STD diagnosis/treatment, immunizations, dental,

podiatry, HIV testing/counseling, health and nutritional counseling, mental illness and substance abuse

diagnosis/treatment, case management, outreach, clinic for homeless/at-risk youth, and pro bono legal work.

Contracted services include lab tests and x-rays, substance abuse services, outpatient counseling, case management,

housing referrals, job search, education, and basic needs. Pharmacy, EPSDT, ophthalmology, well child care,

emergency medical, WIC, perinatal/pediatric, and TB prophylactic treatment are also provided.

Linkages

HCHP has linkages with various programs, including Unity for the Homeless, N.O. Mission, Volunteers of

America, Covenant House, LSU Healthcare Systems, LA Office of Public Health, and Integrated Mobile

Assessment Team.

Statistics

Estimated homeless population: 12,000-13,000 Project users: 6,940

Koyaanisqatsi is offline Koyaanisqatsi
Prince
of Maine paupers.
May 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:41
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17k to 19k.
quote:
According to service providers' statistics, 17,000 to 19,000 men, women and children in the New Orleans area are homeless.

Facts About The Homeless

In New Orleans Approximately:

33% are families; most being women with children
30% have jobs: part time; seasonal; minimum wage
23% have a chronic mental illness
50% have substance abuse problems
85% are natives of Louisiana, 15% are non-natives
Less than 10% of the homeless population is homeless by choice or "hard core" homeless.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:41 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
According to one of the morning shows, the wind never topped 100/mph in NOLA.


That doesn't matter. The water was being pushed into Lake Pontchartrain and down against the south shore by the more powerful parts of the storm.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:41
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Thanks, Che.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:44
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Norah O'Donnell: "The President considers himself a crisis manager. That's what he thrives on."

Chris Matthews: "Then what happened this week."

O'Donnell: "Well, he was slow to it. Sometimes he is a little slow."

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:45
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I'd laugh if it were funny :/

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:46 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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This will be Bush's legacy. Not 9/11, not Afganistan, not Iraq. The total ****-up of Katrina. He should just resign.

Koyaanisqatsi is offline Koyaanisqatsi
Prince
of Maine paupers.
May 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
Thanks, Che.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:49 Visit DanS's homepage!
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I am surprised and saddened at the amount of opinion and rumors that were reported as fact by the media. CNN was especially bad, with its hysterical reporters.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:50 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm surprised and saddened that conservatives can even show their faces, let alone actually try and stand up for that supreme idiot, after the disaster their policies have caused.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi



Is that the new "phtt" smilie that isn't working yet?

Thanks to you as well, Koya. We x-posted.

Koyaanisqatsi is offline Koyaanisqatsi
Prince
of Maine paupers.
May 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:57
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DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 22:58 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I'm more than a little surprised the disaster relief isn't better organised - the US used to be the best at it.

Is this what comes of political apathy and tax cuts which lead to essential services being under resourced?


One thing that might be helpful in making sense of this is that New Orleans was full of fatalists and corrupt to the core. That was part of its charm, because it was different than the rest of antiseptic America. But this system is weak under stress.

In the US, the people in charge during crises are the locals. For instance, the person in charge on 9/11 in New York was the mayor of New York. Not the Feds. The measure of a local society is taken during these times. When a mayor orders his subordinates to do something, will it get done? In a corrupt system, it will not.

From what I can tell, the mayor of New Orleans was an earnest outsider from the black management class who was brought in by the locals to clean up the system. But he's only been in office for a short time. It breaks my heart to see the picture on Drudge of the New Orleans city school buses lying under water, unused. Did he order somebody to arrange the evacuation of the poor and it didn't get done? Did he not order it because he wasn't getting good information about his assets? Were they abandoned because the mayor thought nobody would take New Orleans' poor, once he got them all on buses?

As somebody from a city that was in the same situation 15 years ago, I don't feel that it's fair to blame the mayor wholly. It took our mayor, who was a black management class outsider brought in with the same thought (a real incorruptible beancounter, god bless him), years to make his impact felt.

Last edited by DanS on 04-09-2005 at 23:15

Koyaanisqatsi is offline Koyaanisqatsi
Prince
of Maine paupers.
May 1999
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:12
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One rather disturbing trend I've noticed is that it seems that people who get on CNN/other news shows are the ones who have their family rescued. Obviously not exclusively, but there have been several cases where people show up on CNN saying that their family is trapped at this place or that, have been for days, they've been telling every official they can find to send help, then miraculously within the next 24 hours a Coast Guard chopper appears overhead and people are evacuated. It just happened again...last night a woman said her family was trapped in a certain Asian Catholic church, and now there's video of people being taken out of that same church (though the announcers didn't mention it was the same one.)

That being said, the one really amazing performance I've seen in all of this is from the Coast Guard. They've consistently been doing amazing work, and have been since the moment they could get their choppers back in the air.

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:16 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
It really makes me sick how far you an MOBIUS (I expect it from him) will go for political profit.


Bullshit!

Evidently your reading comprehension is out of whack (we all know you can't even spell the names of ships in your own navy! ) because you will have noticed that much of my criticism has rounded on people other than Bush or the Republicans - but no, you're so wrapped up in sacrificing your credibility in these outrageous attempts to protect your beloved leader...

As for what makes me sick, it's people like you who couldn't give a **** about the plight of thousands of people in the most dreadful of circumstances (is it because they are overwhelmingly black that you don't care?) - who jokes about rescue operations being suspended so some dumbass can swan in telling everyone how NO is going to be better than it was before in the future...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:18
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How does MOBIUS (or anyone else for that matter) "profit" by attacking Bush?

just curious...

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:22 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Koy: Another group that seems relatively on top of things is the New Orleans fire department. Compare them with New Orleans police department, which saw all of the desertions.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I am surprised and saddened at the amount of opinion and rumors that were reported as fact by the media. CNN was especially bad, with its hysterical reporters.


I think the media, though certainly far from perfect, was one of the few shining things in this entire **** up. The fact that the media had to tell FEMA about 25,000 people that they had missed is very telling. As well as the ability of the media to get into New Orleans when the government did such a shitty job if getting in.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:29 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Why wasn't the mayor telling FEMA about the 25,000 people? This wasn't FEMA's operation at that time. As you can see, FEMA only gets its ass in gear on day 4 or so.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:31
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Why didn't FEMA ask?


Two can play this silly little game DanS.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 04-09-2005 23:32 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Why couldn't FEMA watch tv?

 
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