18-09-2005 22:59									#121
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nm...

Last edited by VJ on 18-09-2005 at 23:12

	19-09-2005 23:06									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Colon I'm sorry, but I must have missed out on that era of Danish hegenomy.

Well, it wasn't yesterday - try some time around 1500

Sadly we missed to get rid of Gustav Vasa in the Stockholmian bloodbath - since then it was down hill.

	19-09-2005 23:14									#123
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Because the Danes are suckers who actually believed that the war was all about disarming evildoers. I believe they still do, you can still see how Winston et aliae are proclaiming their moral superiority every time the topic comes up, innocently believing that most of Europe passed Iraq because they're all cowards and Danes are bringing the glorious democracy and freedom to Iraq.

I haven't said anything about countries being against the war was cowards - thay all had their political reasons to stay out/not participate, but none of the reasons anything to with bringing democracy to Iraq or not.

quote: Here's a brilliant example: If you don't send your kids to fight a war, you're doing it just because you want to kiss French ass. Brilliant, pure gold.

The bolded part following is a very common used argument used against supporters of the war - why shouldn't I be allowed to sink just as low when I meet it ?

quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf it's obviuosly a combination of many factors - right wing government - nato - don't know the numbers, but the contribution is small and it's focused on humanitarian stuff - and what makes you think they didn't do it to kiss american ass?

	19-09-2005 23:30									#124
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I used to think VJ was such a sensible guy. Now why do you hate Denmark?

I've never seen anyone 'proclaim their moral superiority' because their country is part of the coalition. But now that you bring it up, it's obvious there is a difference between leaders taking on a challenge such as this one, and the ones who prefer minding their own business. Whether it has anything to do with morality I think is an open question, and it probably varies depending on who you ask. But I'm fairly certain that in the case of our PM, the decision to join was mainly fueled by a strong desire to try to help advance some of the values he believes in. He's made no secret of that at any point, in fact he's stressed it time and again right from the start. He may be many things, but he's no fence-sitter.

I think it's fair to say though, that the reports of WMD (credible by any account at the time) supplied an extra, convenient pretext to join - as I think it did for most everybody.

But this is getting a bit old. Our focus now should be on who will actually stay on and help get the job done - or join in and provide support, training, getting the civilian infrastructure improved and so on. This is what amazes me, that so few countries have seemingly been able to look past their opposition to the U.S. administration - and actually start offering a helping hand to the Iraqis...

	20-09-2005 09:33									#125
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quote: that the reports of WMD (credible by any account at the time)

What reports? Powell went into the UN and he presented satellite pictures of closed trucks in the middle of a desert and a tape where an unknown guy was talking about somebody coming to check something. There were also documents supposedly proving Iraqi goverment buying refined uranium from Niger -- documents which were proved frauds within the first 5 minutes after they were brought up as proofs. Everyone who believed this evidence had obviously made up their minds before looking at it.

Face it guys, your nation was originally suckered into the war.

	20-09-2005 09:35									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Winston But this is getting a bit old. Our focus now should be on who will actually stay on and help get the job done - or join in and provide support, training, getting the civilian infrastructure improved and so on. This is what amazes me, that so few countries have seemingly been able to look past their opposition to the U.S. administration - and actually start offering a helping hand to the Iraqis...

What makes you think the Iraqis want to be led by this helping hand of foreign governments?

	20-09-2005 09:57									#127
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quote: I think it's fair to say though, that the reports of WMD (credible by any account at the time)

	20-09-2005 14:21									#128
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Intelligence reports can be something other than documents and satellite snapshots, you know. The ones I mentioned - in passing, I didn't argue they were quintessential to the decision - were assessments presumably based on a number of elements beside documents and satellite shots. Not least of which were records that he had them before, used them before, refused to give them up, obstructed their inspection, and was likely to want to acquire new ones.

Now, it seems the reports were wrong about the actual presence of weapons, at least on the scale that was being suggested. But that really doesn't change the perceived level of threat at the time when the decision was made to go in.

That's all I'm saying. And again, the reports formed a convenient extra pretext for my country, it was not essential. We would likely have joined anyway for the more practical reasons of removing Saddam and starting a change in the region.

	20-09-2005 20:27									#129
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quote: Originally posted by VJ What makes you think the Iraqis want to be led by this helping hand of foreign governments?

the statements of their elected government.

	20-09-2005 20:30									#130
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"We would likely have joined anyway for the more practical reasons of removing Saddam and starting a change in the region."

No you woudln't

Realism steps in!

	20-09-2005 20:38									#131
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The fact of the matter is, our skiers have never been doped, and we don't tolerate Russian incursions into our airspace because we're too wimpy to stand up to them either.

	20-09-2005 20:46									#132
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who cares about your skiers, you don't have any skiers. We don't tolerate Russian incursions either. But unlike you, we live in a real world.

	20-09-2005 21:14									#133
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Yes, you only take action when it's convenient to yourselves, and cheat when you think you can get away with it. Keep it real, Pekka.

	20-09-2005 21:18									#134
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I'm glad we have your country keeping it real Winston.. without you we'd be all talking Turkmenistan and having Rooskies here clogging the toilets.

	20-09-2005 21:22									#135
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No, without my country taking a clear stand, you'd have to find something else to knee-jerk bltch about. But I'm sure you'd manage.

	20-09-2005 21:23									#136
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Keep your ****ing Scandinavian feuding to yourselves.

	20-09-2005 21:24									#137
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Pekka: go make some mobile phones.

Winston: go drink and make pornography.

	20-09-2005 21:25									#138
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Yeah but this is, at best, Nordic feuding. A term invented so the Finns wouldn't feel too left out.

	20-09-2005 21:27									#139
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KrazyHorse, you should go.. and..

Oh, let me get back to you on that one.

	20-09-2005 21:28									#140
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Well you took clear stand before, raping and pillaging the Europe. I think it's still in your blood, raping and pillaging. So yeah.. so yeah I'd find something on you.. you rapers and pillagers.. it's too easy...

	20-09-2005 21:30									#141
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As long as you make sure to pillage properly afterwards, noone will ever notice the raping, leaving everybody happy.

	20-09-2005 21:31									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Winston KrazyHorse, you should go.. and.. Oh, let me get back to you on that one.

Beat the Danes at hockey 47-0?

	20-09-2005 21:33									#143
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Honestly, it was in 1949. We thought it was some sort of board game at the time.

	20-09-2005 21:35									#144
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You'd think we'd have taken mercy on you after the first ten goals, but apparently our team at the time was filled with dicks who wanted to make it as embarassing as possible...

	20-09-2005 21:43									#145
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It must've been really humiliating. I wish I could find some of the other results around that time. The big question is, did Denmark manage to score at all in the 1940's?

	20-09-2005 21:43									#146
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Never trust a country without proper hockey in there. The worse the hockey, more likely the country is corrupt.

	20-09-2005 21:45									#147
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*points at Russia

	20-09-2005 21:49									#148
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exception to the rule.

	20-09-2005 21:53									#149
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But, but.. we're in the A group now, have been for years.

No more results to be found. But I did find out that the 0-47 defeat was in fact the very first international game we ever played. At least we could only move forward from there..

	20-09-2005 21:55									#150
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BARELY Winston BARELY.