28-03-2002 08:04									#61
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quote: Originally posted by orange Can you explain that a little more? I have a friend involved in the one at Arcadia University, and he is straight...but I never really got to talking with him about what it is.

I don't know what they're like at other universities or cities, but here it's essentially a support program.

They all meet up and hang out and can be themselves. Most of the people in the Alliance here are gay or bi, and a lot of them bring straight friends with them. Much of the time the friends just come for the first time as a symbol of support, but keep coming back because they simply have fun together.

They have movie nights here sometimes, othertimes it's just them all meeting and talking and hanging out.

But the main purpose of it is to help out gay/lesbian/bisexual youth who are feeling alone/depressed/angry/confused.

	28-03-2002 08:04									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I don't see it as meaning that, for instance gay pride parades (as far as I know) let everyone participate, it's not about being gay per se, it's about celebrating - The same reason which is behind any other parade

Celebrating what? Celebrating something that is a part of you - your sexuality. So why is celebrating heterosexuality - also allowing homosexuals to participate - bigotry? Why the double standard?

quote: Technically speaking, yes... but I don't know if i disagree with you on this student union thing - I'm talking about events and celebrations.

I have a feeling it would be just as frowned upon in China India and especially South Africa if a bunch of white students started a white Student Union. In fact, I guarantee there would be backlash and claims that it was a 'racist' group.

quote: White and heterosexual pride is redundant in this society.

Why? WHY can I not be proud of being white if someone else can be proud of being black??

	28-03-2002 08:07									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't know what they're like at other universities or cities, but here it's essentially a support program. They all meet up and hang out and can be themselves. Most of the people in the Alliance here are gay or bi, and a lot of them bring straight friends with them. Much of the time the friends just come for the first time as a symbol of support, but keep coming back because they simply have fun together. They have movie nights here sometimes, othertimes it's just them all meeting and talking and hanging out. But the main purpose of it is to help out gay/lesbian/bisexual youth who are feeling alone/depressed/angry/confused.

Thanks.

See I don't have a problem with this at all. To me it sounds like a support group, a way for people to destroy steriotypical 'differences' and just be themselves. Because really, who cares about sexuality when it comes to friends and fun? It shouldn't matter.

But if a group is called a gay student union, it applies that only homosexuals may join, or that they wish to be separated from heterosexuals for the duration of that club's meeting, etc.

I don't like the double standard. It makes no sense at all.

	28-03-2002 08:07									#64
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Orange, if white heterosexual men have had a history of overcoming institutional discrimination in all shapes and forms, then they would have reasons to celebrate their pride in their identity.

Clearly, you are distorting the legitimate reasons why minority groups are affirmative of their identity and history.

	28-03-2002 08:17									#65
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quote: Originally posted by orange Celebrating what? Celebrating something that is a part of you - your sexuality. So why is celebrating heterosexuality - also allowing homosexuals to participate - bigotry? Why the double standard?

It's not. Heterosexuality is celebrated every day and quite thoroughly, with out the need for parades or rallies. But when you take it to an excessive level, it is bigotry - just as anything would be.

quote: I have a feeling it would be just as frowned upon in China India and especially South Africa if a bunch of white students started a white Student Union. In fact, I guarantee there would be backlash and claims that it was a 'racist' group. Why? WHY can I not be proud of being white if someone else can be proud of being black??

I don't think it's about celebrating the colour of your skin - it's about celebrating your heritage, culture, history, and identity. I'm sure europeans can do their thing in the countries you listed. Of course, you don't need to celebrate being european when you live in a european country - it's redundant.

	28-03-2002 08:23									#66
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Orange, if white heterosexual men have had a history of overcoming institutional discrimination in all shapes and forms, then they would have reasons to celebrate their pride in their identity.

Well, we did flee the oppression of England among other European states, no?

	28-03-2002 08:25									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I don't think it's about celebrating the colour of your skin - it's about celebrating your heritage, culture, history, and identity. I'm sure europeans can do their thing in the countries you listed. Of course, you don't need to celebrate being european when you live in a european country - it's redundant.

So celebrating say, my German heritage would be OK, but not being white? Yet, blacks aren't celebrating, say, their Zimbabweian heritage their celebrating being black, no?

	28-03-2002 08:27									#68
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Orange, if white heterosexual men have had a history of overcoming institutional discrimination in all shapes and forms, then they would have reasons to celebrate their pride in their identity.

I don't think that's a good enough reason to allow one kind of pride and shun another.

quote: Clearly, you are distorting the legitimate reasons why minority groups are affirmative of their identity and history.

No. I recognize legitimate reasons for having a group. What I don't recognize is how a double standard can exist for the 'majority' of that issue to not have a group for fear of being labeled bigots and racists, or even not allowing them to have that group.

	28-03-2002 08:31									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld It's not. Heterosexuality is celebrated every day and quite thoroughly

How so??

quote: with out the need for parades or rallies. But when you take it to an excessive level, it is bigotry - just as anything would be.

"just as anything would be" so gay pride parades are bigoted?

quote: I don't think it's about celebrating the colour of your skin - it's about celebrating your heritage, culture, history, and identity. I'm sure europeans can do their thing in the countries you listed. Of course, you don't need to celebrate being european when you live in a european country - it's redundant.

This is not a heterosexual country, nor is it a white country. Why can't someone celebrate those aspects of their heritage just as there can be homosexual pride and black pride?

	28-03-2002 08:44									#70
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quote: Originally posted by orange How so?? "just as anything would be" so gay pride parades are bigoted?

are blind? we live in a heterosexual society - you turn on the TV, there is a male and female couple, you see an advertisement, and it targets heterosexual values, ect...

Take a look around you!

quote: This is not a heterosexual country, nor is it a white country. Why can't someone celebrate those aspects of their heritage just as there can be homosexual pride and black pride?

	28-03-2002 08:46									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld are blind? we live in a heterosexual society - you turn on the TV, there is a male and female couple, you see an advertisement, and it targets heterosexual values, ect...

There is more than one show on Television about homosexuality, and many that have had homosexual themes to an episode or homosexual characters.

And I hardly think that any of this is 'pride' or a display of pride.

	28-03-2002 08:48									#72
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Come on Orange. Turn on a random TV station at a random time of the day, and exactly what would be your odds of seeing a gay couple?

One or two gay shows? Wow. Progress.

	28-03-2002 08:51									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld are blind? we live in a heterosexual society - you turn on the TV, there is a male and female couple, you see an advertisement, and it targets heterosexual values, ect... Take a look around you!

Hey Toto, this isn't Kansas anymore, you ought to take a look around. How many sitcoms now have an obligatory gay character in them? How many movies? How often do I gotta hear about gay issues? Is this proportionate to the percentage of homosexuals who make up our society?

	28-03-2002 08:54									#74
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteElephants Is this proportionate to the percentage of homosexuals who make up our society?

It hasn't even begun to approach the percentage of homosexuals in our society, WE.

	28-03-2002 08:55									#75
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Um.....Is it okay for me to be a heterosexual......but still like the thought of two women making love?

	28-03-2002 08:56									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Um.....Is it okay for me to be a heterosexual......but still like the thought of two women making love?

Okay? Damn boy, it's well-nigh required!

	28-03-2002 08:57									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer It hasn't even begun to approach the percentage of homosexuals in our society, WE.

Are you refering to Ann Arbor or our society?

	28-03-2002 08:57									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Come on Orange. Turn on a random TV station at a random time of the day, and exactly what would be your odds of seeing a gay couple? One or two gay shows? Wow. Progress.

That's not the point!

The point is: If a bunch of straight people want to get together and have a parade and call it a straight pride parade, they should be able to without being seen as racists or bigots if homosexuals are similarly allowed to have a homosexual pride parade.

If a bunch of white guys get together and want to start a white student union - they should be able to as long as there are allowed to be such things as black student unions.

etc.

Ideally, there wouldn't be clubs with exclusive names like that. Ideally, we would all just coexist without even thinking about those things. But if you're going to have one, don't make a double standard about the other.

	28-03-2002 09:00									#79
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Oops, I submited that post before I was done


But anyways. the term "black" encompasses all african heritages and culture, it's a broad term which is used mainly because they all share the same history on this land. "white" encompasses all european cultures (and american - if you want to differentiate the two), and technically speaking there are "white pride" events where people celebrate some kind of european heritage (whether it be german, russian, irish, or whatever).

And yes the USA, Canada, Australia, and most of europe are 'white countries'. Which is probably white the term 'white' can't be used as broadly as 'black', here.

	28-03-2002 09:01									#80
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteElephants Are you refering to Ann Arbor or our society?

Touche. But still, homosexuals are marginalized in our society, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

	28-03-2002 09:05									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Touche. But still, homosexuals are marginalized in our society, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

And your evidence of this is...

	28-03-2002 09:06									#82
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteElephants And your evidence of this is...

Um... my open eyes?

	28-03-2002 09:07									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Um... my open eyes?

Well it's conclusive then!

	28-03-2002 09:08									#84
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I can name 2 TV shows that involves gay couples.
I can name about 200 or so TV shows that involve straight couples.

That's unbalanced, and shows that one is being marginalized in favor of the other.

	28-03-2002 09:20									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I can name 2 TV shows that involves gay couples. I can name about 200 or so TV shows that involve straight couples. That's unbalanced, and shows that one is being marginalized in favor of the other.

100:1 ratio. What's the ratio of heterosexuals to homosexuals? 10:1?

	28-03-2002 09:22									#86
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quote: Originally posted by orange 100:1 ratio. What's the ratio of heterosexuals to homosexuals? 10:1?

So goes the conventional wisdom. Various studies have estimated anything from 3% to 20%, if I recall correctly.

	28-03-2002 09:32									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer So goes the conventional wisdom. Various studies have estimated anything from 3% to 20%, if I recall correctly.

in other words, probably about 10%? Or - 1 in 10?

	28-03-2002 09:33									#88
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quote: Originally posted by orange in other words, probably about 10%? Or - 1 in 10?

Well, yeah... I was just saying that there are no hard numbers, and estimates vary... you feeling okay? You seem to be having some eye problems...

	28-03-2002 09:35									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer ... you feeling okay? You seem to be having some eye problems...

What makes you say that?

	28-03-2002 09:36									#90
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quote: Originally posted by orange What makes you say that?

Lucky for you I just finished my Ophthamology sequence... not just sit back and relax while I apply these eye drops.

Ooopsy...