03-04-2002 10:45									#121
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quote: Hussein murdered a disloyal border area during a vicious war.

Does that mean you approve of the action?
Relatively it was justified.... no?

	03-04-2002 10:48									#122
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You wanna keep putting words in my mouth, kid?

	03-04-2002 11:06									#123
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Nobody likes mr yassir! Heck even the arabs. Didnt they kick his arse out of jordan, syria, lebanon, and eygpt? Well I think I am write. no wait. I know I am

	03-04-2002 11:10									#124
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The Arab countries wanted Arafat on a leash, to trot out as a propaganda club to hit Israel with. Problem is, he had his own agenda. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the the PLO trying to topple the King of Jordan. The world needs less Kings.

	03-04-2002 11:11									#125
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Yasser terrorized Jordan so he was kicked out in 1970.

Then he terrorized Lebanon and was kicked out by Israel in 1982.

Now he's about to get the boot again.


Che, I asked a question. Using moral relativism, you could claim Saddam was moral.

	03-04-2002 11:13									#126
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the the PLO trying to topple the King of Jordan. The world needs less Kings.

Yeah, Authoritarian Militaristic Dictators are sooo much better

notice Arafat called him self "General Yassir Arafat".

	03-04-2002 11:14									#127
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Assuming that the Palestinians feel oppressed and desperate, what options do they really have?

As for Europe condemning Israel, at least I am glad they are self-consistent. This shows that, when they condemn Russia for Chechnya, they follow some principles rather than simply anti-Russian sentiments.

	03-04-2002 11:17									#128
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Assuming that the Palestinians feel oppressed and desperate, what options do they really have?

Attack the IDF as opposed to killing children.

	03-04-2002 11:20									#129
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Assuming that the Palestinians feel oppressed and desperate, what options do they really have? As for Europe condemning Israel, at least I am glad they are self-consistent. This shows that, when they condemn Russia for Chechnya, they follow some principles rather than simply anti-Russian sentiments.

Privet brat

Hochesh dam tebye saiti potchitat pro israil?

	03-04-2002 11:22									#130
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quote: Sharon has 60% + approval rate, which is slightly lower than the 80% he was used to.

Last numbers were 45% and falling.

quote: Using moral relativism, you could claim Saddam was moral.

But that isn't what che was claiming. His morals deal with the weaker and more powerful, and there are different moralities for the stronger and weaker.

I have a (slightly) different view. My view is morals are created by the powerful and forced on the weak, but everyone has a different morality. Yes, I'm a moral relativist.

	03-04-2002 11:31									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Che, I asked a question. Using moral relativism, you could claim Saddam was moral.

One could make the claim, but thay'd have to back it up with evidence supporting their point. It would be up to you to decide whether or not that's a valid claim.

Some believe that moral relativism automatically leads to being unable to make judgements. I disagree. I believe that morals are relative, but I also belive that my morals are superior. Therefore, I have no qualms about passing judgement on other's morals.

Frankly, morals must be relative, since they do not exist independently of human beings. It is a human value system, wedded to a particular society, place, time, mode of existence, etc. That doesn't make it right or wrong. But my own moral system says I can judge others, and that's fine. Other's have moral systems that say they can't judge others, and that's just an excuse for inaction in the face of human suffering. (See how it works )

I don't think it's wrong to kill Jews, I think it's wrong to kill people. However, under certain situations, it may become necessary to kill people, and if some of them happen to be Jews, well, they die, unless they kill me first.

Personally, I would try a different apporach. Given the complete military imbalance, the only viable approach to combatting Israel would be a non-violent one. That doesn't mean I don't understand why violence is used, nor does it in any way justify the brutality that Israel directs against the Palestinians. Furthermore, despite attacks against civilians by the other side, Israel is the primary agressor in the situation, and therefore morally, and legally, the side that is in the wrong.

	03-04-2002 11:31									#132
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The only difference between a terrorist killing innocent civilians and a pilot dropping a bomb on the same innocent civilians is the level of personification. Unlike the pilot, the terrorist can look in the eyes of his potential victims.

	03-04-2002 11:34									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But that isn't what che was claiming. His morals deal with the weaker and more powerful, and there are different moralities for the stronger and weaker. I have a (slightly) different view. My view is morals are created by the powerful and forced on the weak, but everyone has a different morality. Yes, I'm a moral relativist.

Well put.

	03-04-2002 11:35									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Privet brat Hochesh dam tebye saiti potchitat pro israil?

Davay

	03-04-2002 11:36									#135
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Che, if we can agree... why can't those bozos in the Mid East?

	03-04-2002 11:41									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Che, if we can agree... why can't those bozos in the Mid East?

Emotions get in the way of rational thinking. There are some sterotypes I've discovered have a strong kernal of truth. One of them is that people living around the Mediterrean have a loose grip on their emotions. My former Egyptian girlfriend called me a cold fish once. On the other hand, we don't devote a section of our newspapers to poetry.

	03-04-2002 11:44									#137
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Or lord... if our newspapers weren't a laughing stock already, all they need is poetry .

	03-04-2002 11:58									#138
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Attack the IDF as opposed to killing children.

Jon Miller

	03-04-2002 12:00									#139
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Paraphrasing MLK, the politics of eye for an eye will leave both sides blind.

	03-04-2002 12:28									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Anyway, this thread is about European anti-semitism, and fears that it will rise again. Need I remind you that France is the nation that gave us the infamous "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?

It was not "France" that gave us the protocols. The title is taken from a satire against Naopleon III (that was published in Brussels; Dialogue between Miachavelli and forgot-who). It was then introduced as an antisemitic fabricate by a german author (in a work of fiction), but the actual "work" as a supposedly real conspiracy was most likely created in Russia, maybe by the Ochrana, around 1900. Possibly related to the zionist congress. First print versions came from Russia.

	03-04-2002 12:31									#141
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Roland is correct. It is Russian in nature... at least in print.

	03-04-2002 12:35									#142
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I've read parts of the Proticols . . . and they don't seem so bad really. While reading them for my class on Judaism I thought, if these were true, we would owe the Jews of debt of thanks. But then, I haven't read the whole thing, and maybe there's some evil stuff in there. Most of what I read was about internationalism and abolishing state religions and what not.

	03-04-2002 12:49									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I had to dig for both stories, they are downplayed in the news, yet any anti-muslim attacks are front page news.

Oh you poor, news-deprived little fella....

Try some real news sources:

www.n-tv.de

"Wachsamkeit nach Warnung Sicherheit für Synagogen" - 2nd story on top at the moment

www.orf.at

"Neuer Anschlag auf eine Synagoge in Marseille" - 2nd story "Ausland"

http://derstandard.at/

"ANTISEMITISMUS
"Unsere Herzen brennen"
Ratlosigkeit nach antijüdischen Anschlägen in Frankreich
Neuer Anschlag auf eine Synagoge in Marseille" - at the right hand top

Even you should be able to see that in contrast to America, we do not try to drown existing problems in a wave of insane chauvinism.

	03-04-2002 12:57									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Roland It was not "France" that gave us the protocols. The title is taken from a satire against Naopleon III (that was published in Brussels; Dialogue between Miachavelli and forgot-who). It was then introduced as an antisemitic fabricate by a german author (in a work of fiction), but the actual "work" as a supposedly real conspiracy was most likely created in Russia, maybe by the Ochrana, around 1900. Possibly related to the zionist congress. First print versions came from Russia.

The Tsarist Secret Police are generally credited as the "authors" of the Protocols.

	03-04-2002 12:59									#145
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What the hell are these Protocols?

	03-04-2002 13:02									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The Tsarist Secret Police are generally credited as the "authors" of the Protocols.

And that one was not called "Ochrana" ?

	03-04-2002 13:04									#147
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Yes, the Ochrana.

	03-04-2002 13:07									#148
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Isn't it beautiful, that peaceful agreement ?

	03-04-2002 13:10									#149
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No, f*ck you then

	03-04-2002 13:18									#150
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Davay

Na

ttp://www.mignews.com/
http://www.novosty.co.il/
http://www.cursorinfo.co.il/
http://www.sem40.ru/
http://honestreport.narod.ru/

Ti uzhe poluchaish palestinskuyu versyu, eti saiti boleye blizki kpravde

Kstati, gde ti priatalsia do sikh por?

Ya znayu malo rusko govoryachikh zdes.

Pochti vsye - tozhe izrailtanye.