22-04-2002 14:40									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I believe that in the next election campaign, or at the one after it, Le Pen or his successor will win.

The classical Eli Bull-****.
The main problem that is a higher rate of people didn't vote.

Actually 50% of people who voted for FN didn't rely want to see it as president.

Now the good point of this ****. We will see how many french want to see LePen as their president.

In this case I will prepare my passport. Looking for another state.

	22-04-2002 15:32									#152
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quote: BTW, I am amused when reading Europeans bash "Dubya" for being so damn conservative. For the most part he's fairly moderate, more of an economic conservative than a social conservative. By the way, why are European countries so much more liberal than the U.S.?

Remember that you are looking from American perspective. From European perspective, it's self-evident that Dubya is a far-right conservative, as a member of European conservative party would be a center-left Democrat in America. For instance, Dubya seems to be pro-life, as in ban all abortions except to save mother's life - this alone makes him socially very conservative if you look from European perspective. To use a way of explaining this that only Finns will understand, Republican party is like cross between Pia-Noora Kauppi's economic ideals and Mika Ebeling's social ideals.

quote: (and it's doubtful that these images were truly from september, as some people said they were from a 1991 news)

If people would just stop with old rumors already.

	22-04-2002 16:22									#153
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What I just heard on CNN made me sick. Some pro-Israel group in the USA said that "Europe hasn't learned enough from WW2". Sick bastards.

Last edited by Saint Marcus on 22-04-2002 at 16:33

	22-04-2002 16:38									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus What I just heard on CNN made me sick. Some pro-Israel group in the USA said that "Europe hasn't learned enough from WW2". Sick bastards.

Isn't that quite typical for pro-Israeli's?

	22-04-2002 16:49									#155
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quote: Since the Oslo treaty, there were only right-wing governments in Israël, and they all made nearly all what they could to sink the peace. That's why Europe is not feeling sympathy for Israël.

la la la , you don't know what you're talking about , lalala....
no true lalala

quote: Why Palestinians were happy to hear about the Two Towers (and it's doubtful that these images were truly from september, as some people said they were from a 1991 news) is perfectly explained by the sentence in bold in your quote.

defending the undefendable... lalalala....

	22-04-2002 17:00									#156
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quote: Isn't that quite typical for pro-Israeli's?

Don't know, but it's certainly out of line. All our nations have suffered tremendously in the worst war in human history, and left a permanent scar.

And the Israelis, of all people, say that the Europeans haven't learned enough from WW2. As I see it, they are the ones who haven't learned. They have been oppressed throughout history, and they should know how bad oppression is. Yet, now that they have power they are becomming oppressors themselves.

	22-04-2002 17:03									#157
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I wonder if Animal Farm was translated into Hebrew...

	22-04-2002 17:07									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Good : 8/10 on Eli European BS scale. That's why I voted for him. The enemy of your enemy...

I'm sure you would have voted for this scvm. And jew don't have (for now) be afraid by LePen, many french jew are agree with its (non-)policies.

Let me show what I'm thinking about such quote : (No body have gaging smiley ?) : S H I T

	22-04-2002 17:10									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion You voted Le Pen? Just let me get this straight, you moved there, "acquired" French citizenship (no Provost, he didn't download it ) and then voted for HIM? or in the poll?

Sorry for pals, but I prefere that Lepen and all its spawns acquired Israeli citizenship and go out from here ! I'm sure he will find friends over here.

	22-04-2002 17:17									#160
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Sorry for pals, but I prefere that Lepen and all its spawns acquired Israeli citizenship and go out from here ! I'm sure he will find friends over here.

No need. He has enough friends in France, 17% of the population. And in the next elections campaigns it will only grow and grow.

	22-04-2002 17:22									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Don't you want to see something done about crime? About employment? Le Pen isn't against the immigrants themselves (ie, he isn't a racist), but he is against immigration. Big difference. Without such a pandering to political correctness, France will be able to deal more effectively with crime (with the acknowledgement that minorities do commit more crime). Etc etc.

He's racist. Sometime he forget to play the non-racist guy and then it's "funny".

He is talking only demagogy. Using fears. He using the same old tricks. If u have problems, its the stranger. French r perfect and the best people. But strangers spoil your country ...

Sad to see such basic trick is so efficient.

	22-04-2002 18:11									#162
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I support either Chirac or Le Pen. More Le Pen because I think France needs to reassert itself in the world. These election results is good news for France. Even if Le Pen loses, this would be a major blow to the socialists and that is a positive thing.

If Le Pen is elected it would be even better for my world plan... J/K

Europe is shifting right, face it... that is what is happening.

(My opinion, I know because I am right-wing aswell)

	22-04-2002 18:15									#163
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Iknow I shouldn't care since some americans are vigorously anti-palestinian anti-muslim and racist even if the know it or not.


Faelin or what's his name said I advocate arming Palestine.

Where he seen me say it I don't know.


But some americans are really blind and jump on the anti-semitic train to justify their blindness to the middle eastern conflict and their inability to see both sides of the argument.

I couldn't care less.

I support the creation of a Palestinian state.


Also it is funny how anti-muslims jump on the anti-semitic european argument.

Well you can bash as much as you want.You are only being funny. Go protect the blacks and then come and teach us something about respet. Go abolish the death penalty too.

Jesus some of you guys are pathetic and the source of the problem.


As far as Palestine being armed. Against what? A 100 times armed Israel??

palestine gets support from Europe and will continue to get support until it gets its freedom.

Some of the americans are too one-sided.

	22-04-2002 18:19									#164
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Palestine gets support from Europe? You mean Northern Europe?

Bush doesn't support the creation of a seperate state for Palestine?

Huh? Am I missing something??

Paiktis you got problems of jumping on people for having different beliefs.

Some of you socialist europeans are too one-sided.

	22-04-2002 18:21									#165
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Palestine gets support from the EU.

	22-04-2002 18:23									#166
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And I have problems with people labeling other people. Not with people expressing their opinion.

Critisising Israel's war crimes makes you anti-semitic in the eyes of some of the citizens of the "brave" new world.

Ridiculous.

They are just anti-muslim and anti-palestinian following the same logic.

	22-04-2002 18:24									#167
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Israel has a damn right to defend itself in the eyes of terror. The terrorists, Hamas and other Palestinian Terror Organizations, were using civilians as human shields in Jenin and in other areas.

And Israel supports Turkey. Go figure.

The EU supports Palestine? The whole EU? Or just part of it? Because Italy and Spain are supporting the US as far as this goes from my knowledge.

	22-04-2002 18:27									#168
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And Palestinians have a right to freedom.

Which is stronger?

That said of course one should be against terrorist attacks but against the occupation of the Palestine at the same time. That or he's one - sided.

	22-04-2002 18:28									#169
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Maybe good news for a short sighted adolescent. About your political point of view, I don't care at all. But your lake of analyse is pityfull.

And I will not talk about my left/right politics point of view. But I will expose my analyse on the situation. I'm just computer scientist (but more a scientist). I didn't study politics. But still I have brain to analyse what happens.

The traditional left failed too as their score is sadly and hardly superior to LePen score. if we add Maigret + Lepen scores (they were in same party not long ago), they would have beaten Chirac.
Never an out-going president had scored as low as chirac.

A good day for fascist as you, bad day for republican from left to right. Even Chirac is not totally happy : He didn't have a clean victory. He wont be chosen by french, but chosen to avoid the worst. His legislative will be horny ( ).

But the first party who won the 1st turn was the party of non-voters. In fact Lepen didn't make a so big advance. It's just other candidat who loses votes.

Chirac as president don't bother me in fact : Right will have maybe the possiblity to show their skill during 5 years. Before they only critized, easy job.

	22-04-2002 18:29									#170
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They will get their freedom once they stop blowing up civilians in cafes, streets and shopping areas.

Israel should end its siege of Palestine. BUT Palestine should stop its suicide bombings. That is one thing I don't understand about you Socialist Eurocoms you want Israel out, but you don't say anything about the Palestinian suicide bombings. Absolutely stunning. Luckily the Right is gaining power in Europe now. Thank goodness for that!

	22-04-2002 18:30									#171
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Hate to break it to you Gianni but you (or your family) have actually payed for much of the infastructure of Palestine through your taxes...


And the EU, as a whole, supports a Free Palestine. Fact.
In Spain and Italy you have some of the strongest left wing in Europe.

	22-04-2002 18:31									#172
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quote: The EU supports Palestine? The whole EU? Or just part of it? Because Italy and Spain are supporting the US as far as this goes from my knowledge.

The EU, the whole EU, is the biggest financial supported of the Palestinians in the world. This includes Spain and Italy, who don't exactly like Israel either.

quote: Europe is shifting right, face it... that is what is happening.

Yet, at the same time extreme left parties are gaining ground as well (at least, in some countries). Take the neo-troskyists in France, or the Socialist Party in Holland.

	22-04-2002 18:31									#173
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Right wing Europeans are as strong supporters of a Free Palestine as the left-wing.

	22-04-2002 18:36									#174
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Maybe good news for a short sighted adolescent. About your political point of view, I don't care at all. But your lake of analyse is pityfull.

Oh really? And don't bring my age into this it shows how you are argue.

The sad thing is Chirac only got 20% of the vote, and Le Pen got 17%... ?? What is wrong with that?!?

quote: In Spain and Italy you have some of the strongest left wing in Europe.

And some of the strongest right wing in Europe. Especially in Italy. However Spain and Italy will always have a right-wing majority.

quote: Yet, at the same time extreme left parties are gaining ground as well (at least, in some countries). Take the neo-troskyists in France, or the Socialist Party in Holland.

Yeah in some countries but they will eventually decline because of their arbitrary beliefs.

	22-04-2002 18:36									#175
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Right wing Europeans are as strong supporters of a Free Palestine as the left-wing.

And so is George W. Bush.

	22-04-2002 18:41									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo And so is George W. Bush.

Excellent !

	22-04-2002 18:42									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo And some of the strongest right wing in Europe. Especially in Italy. However Spain and Italy will always have a right-wing majority.

Italy's former PM was a communist (D'allema).

The hugest demonstration in decades in Italy was against Berlusconi.

Italy is swifting back to socialism in no time

But seriously. Right and left wing are ok if you compare them to people like Le Pen.
And the left wing of France has also responsibilities for Le Pen getting this kind of %. They have failed to address problems. And I am afraid it is the same in many other countries as well.

quote: Yeah in some countries but they will eventually decline because of their arbitrary beliefs.

As long as far right (and I'm not talking about Aznar) get strength so will they.

	22-04-2002 18:46									#178
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Italy's former PM was a communist (D'allema).

Former. And Italy kept capitalism.

quote: Italy is swifting back to socialism in no time

Nope.

quote: But seriously. Right and left wing are ok if you compare them to people like Le Pen.

Possibly. But if you want to know how good Le Pen is, then let's see if he gets elected.

quote: As long as far right (and I'm not talking about Aznar) get strength so will they.

No.

Anyways here is more on the recent US stance towards the middle east:

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches...-depsecdef.html

	22-04-2002 18:50									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Possibly. But if you want to know how good Le Pen is, then let's see if he gets elected.

Just by analysing his speech, reading between line, and a brain-holding personn will not think about it.

	22-04-2002 18:50									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Possibly. But if you want to know how good Le Pen is, then let's see if he gets elected.

If this happens and extreme right continues to get strength I'm migrating to America (err, wait )