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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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Ok, I modified the scen and version 0.1 is now ready for playtest! 
I just sent you the files! Note that the description are not written (yet! I hope to finish them before the end of next week!)
And I would be glad if you could play with other civs than A-M too! 
Here is how I answered to your requests and comments:
1)"the civ starts with trade unit but no Trade tech, so the Supply&Demmand of F5 doesn't work. To correct it, you need to give the trade tech since the beginning."
That was initially done on purpose: you can build trade units from start, but without knowing how to make it really lucrative! So you could make big cash, or be really disappointed!  This is until you research the Ponce da Quirm tech (a famous explorator)
If you think this is REALLY awkward, then I could change it!
2) "The units: aren't there personalized units? Because I think A-M is very very powerful (with Guilds to put the people happy I'm able to mantain a sustained 3-turns-per-tech research), so maybe weaken units will balance that."
and
"I think that the tech-rate, at least the one of A-M is way too fast... Can you slow that?"
I gave the 4 other A-M cities to the Independents (Sto Lat, Sto Helit, Sto Kerrig and Quirm, leaving only Ankh-Morpork itself! And I removed the 2 trade roads from A-M!
This should slow A-M tech a bit (by over 1 third at start), with the added bonus that you now need to conquer the Sto plains cities (or others) really quick to bring food to A-M before it starves... 
3) There was a (non lethal) problem when AM starves - a rather odd message appears about losing a trade route. "
I'm afraid it's a standard Civ message and not something I modified! I'll leave as such for now, unless you think it should be changed!
4) "I was able to trade technologies and subsequently build moving turtles. In another game (as Ramtop(?)) I was able to build monsters of Ee in a couple of cities - was that a mistake as well?"
About the moving turtles, it was an error in the obsolescence tech, which I corrected!
And about the Monster of Ee: I put a new DD Monster in the settler slot, with a tech allowing the DD to build it when they take a city!
Hopefully, you won't be able to build any DD dedicated unit from now on! 
5) "One thing that I did find odd. Playing as AM I was overuled by the senate a couple of times. I can't imagine any senator who tried to overule Lord Vetinari lasting very long." and "Possibly change the wording "The Patrician wisely accepts the advice of the guilds and changes his mind" or something like that."
Uberwald being a Republic too, I can't change it making a reference to the Patrician! But I might make a reference to "The ruler accepting the advice of the guilds and head families", what do you think? I haven't done it yet!
6) "I have created one own city north-west of Sto Kerrig and one colony at the moth of a river in the west (24,54), as I have explored the whole coastline there."
As I wasn't intending the player to build many cities, I removed 1 of the starting Public Workers from each civ, and I slowed the appearance of the new ones...
7) and a few other things: I lessened the appearance of barbarians, and after a while, the Independents get the tech allowing them to build city walls (note: some cities have them from the start!), so hurry...
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
3) There was a (non lethal) problem when AM starves - a rather odd message appears about losing a trade route. "
I'm afraid it's a standard Civ message and not something I modified! I'll leave as such for now, unless you think it should be changed!
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The problem was not just the odd message, but also the fact that no population was lost. It may be a standard message, but I've never met it before and since nothing seemed to happen I was able to ignore it. On the other hand, getting this pop-up every turn was annoying.
I've received the new version, but I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to try it out.
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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I've played some turns with AM. I can confirm that starting with a single city is more challenging. I couldn't do very much until I built some wizard units.
And BTW, the problem with AM starving seems to be solved in this version. The messages and population loss work correctly.
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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Sounds like you're making steady progress.
BTW does it have to be in MGE? I was going to play some turns yesterday, but I didn't have the disk in the drive and I couldn't be bothered to put it in so I played something else instead.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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I wrote this yesterday evening, but Poly crashed just as I hit "submit"! 
So here are the latest news!
I found the last unit I needed, the one for the Temple of Bel-Shamaroth. I took it in a rip-off compilation from Age of War, done by St-Leo: thanks my friend, your overall contribution is proving decisive! 
On the graphical side, I just need 3 icons graphics and it's done! CHeck the NonUnit graphic showcase, and help me!
And things are proceeding smoothly about the descriptions:
1) Units : done
2) Wonders : done
3) Improvements : 85 %
4) Techs : 15 %
5) Terrain and ressources : haven't started, but as I'll be able to keep much of the original, let's call it 75 %
6) Trade goods list: 75 % (I'll submit a list one of these days...)
After that, I'll just need to write the definitive Readme and launch the final playtest!
And taking into account Arthedain's comments, I "tweaked" some units stats:
quote:
I've just realised that I have to trade some, though it takes ages to get anywhere. And my army has no chance against the independents crossbowmen. |
The changes are:
1) Merchants : movement up from 1 to 2
2) Scout : movement up from 2 to 3
3) Crossbowmen : defense down from 4 to 3
This should do the trick, we'll see in the final playtest...
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
The finishing line is in sight
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Yep, at last...
quote:
I'm very impressed with the thought that's gone into the game. New units, new graphics, new terrain, etc. Is there anything left of the original? (I play with the sound off - do you have new sounds?)
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Thanks!
No, there isn't much left of the original, except for a few terrain and improvement descriptions, and the sounds: as I often play without sounds, I didn't replace the original ones (I might one day, but I rather doubt I will...).
As it is, I think I have been ambitious enough, for my first scen ever... And without your help (and the help from others in this forum), I would never have come to this point! (to be honest, I wouldn't even have started...  )
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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Terrain Description: done
Ressource description: not started yet
Trade list : done
And here is the trade list:
Timber,
Grain,
Rat on a stick,
Cattle,
Salt,
Fat,
Iron,
Treacle,
Manufactured Goods,
Vermine Fur,
Silver,
Curry,
Weapons,
Gold,
Sapient Pearwood,
Octiron,
If you have some comments on the list, or want some change in it, please say so!
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
No comments on the trade list??
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Just a small thought ...
... have you chosen the new trade names in such a way that demand and supply are appropriate for particular cities? For example Ankh Morpork should demand rat on a stick.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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I received a few interesting comments from Case, and I would like your opinion/comments on them, and on the solution I propose!
They were a few compliments too (proving that Case is indeed a man of taste ) which I'll leave apart...
quote:
3) The independants are too strong. As there are so many cities in
this civ, the civ behaves very agressively and tends to wage
ceaseless war against the smaller human-playable civs. I'd sugest
that you do something to cripple the independants, such as only
allowing them to build weak/slow units and have their cities start
out less developed then the playable civs.
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Yes, they are strong! Actually, they have a VERY limited choice of units/improvements to build: they can only build crossbowmen! And I lowered their defence from 4 to 3! Do you think their offense should behave the same way (from 3 to 2)??
And I might raise their cost from 40 to 60??
quote:
4) IMO, civs should start further into the tech-tree then they do at
the start of the scenario. It's a little frustrating having to
slowly progress through the tech tree to be able to build some
important basic improvements and units. At the minimum, all the
playable civs should start up being able to build barracks,
graneries,temples and fishing harbours(?).
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Actually, all the (playable) civs can build from the start: Palace, Shrine to the Gods (temple), Marketplace and Library.
Making them able to build Barracks, graneries and fishing harbours would be easy.
And what is the opinion from you all other playtesters on this??
Here are the 3 ways I propose to handle this:
1) leave it as it is (in case it's not a problem for the other testers)
2) change the improvements prerequisite so that they are buildable from start; this wouldn't shorten the tech tree
3) give the prerequisite techs from the start, which would shorten the tech tree a little bit (though not that much, by 2-4 techs at most!)
So please, I really need the feedback from all of you on this!
quote:
5) I'm sure that you've fixed this by now, but for the record,
Ankh-Morpork is doomed to starvation!
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I know, and I haven't fixed it, because this was done on purpose: while playing A-M, you need to take a city quickly, and them use food caravans at intervals to sustain A-M...
I wanted to make something original! What do you think about that?? If I keep it that way (which I would like), I could include a popup at the start to remind of the situation and the need to supply A-M...
quote:
6) As a minor sugestion, have you considered using the forrest
terrain from Favoured Flights Lord of the Ring Scenarios? I think
that it would be a little more suitable then the default civ
forrest. The trees FF's used for the grassland 'shields' would also
fit in nicely IMO.
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Yes, it's right: I was looking for a better looking forest and didn't find it! It's excellent, and will be used! And the same is true for the grassland ressource! Thanks! :-)
quote:
7) The map looks rather empty. As the books are somewhat vauge on
geography, I can't see how this can be helped. However, you could
spread more roads and village/minor town units across it. If you
give them weak defence stats and and don't place them on the roads,
these units should liven up the map while not affecting the scenario
in any major way.
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Yes, I agree: I should have started with a smaller map...
What do you all think about the emptiness of the map??
About spreading villages/minor town units: not possible, because the 2 village units are really useful as they are: they are the Barbarian Heros "recruiting centers"! So I would have to use another slot, and I haven't got any free one... At first, I intended to use some "treasure" units that could replace huts and encourage exploration! But I sadly haven't got any slot left.
I decided to make the scout faster (from 2 to 3) to quicken exploration: maybe with that the "emptiness" problem would prove less critical, what do you think??
So I hope you'll all give me your opinion on the few points mentioned above so that I can (at last) finish the scen!
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rjmatsleepers
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I can't really help with these questions, but here is my 2-bits worth.
One of the bad guys (orange I think, but I can't remember and I can't play it on this computer) is very strong and difficult to deal with. Playing as AM, I lost a large slice of my empire when they started attacking and took a long time to get it back. I had similar problems playing as (I think) Ramtops.
I never came close to finishing the scenario, but I don't know whether this would be improved if I could build barracks earlier. I'm not sure how dedicated / patient the average scenario player is. I suspect La Fayette finishes a scenario in one hundredth the time I do.
With the second playtest version I let AM starve down to a sustainable size despite capturing a few cities. I suspect I never discovered trade, so food caravans were not an option - but I may be misremembering this. It wasn't a big issue as far as I was concerned, but remember that I didn't finish and this may have contributed.
I found the emptiness of the map one of the factors that slowed me down. I didn't have enough settlers to fill it up, but it took a long while to move units to position them to attack other cities. I don't think I ever used a scout unit and I never found a recruiting centre - perhaps I didn't explore enough. My play style is to explore until I find a city to conquer and then conquer it, repeating as many times as necessary.
I'm not sure how helpful these comments will be, since I am not a frequent scenario player.
RJM at Sleeper's
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