08-05-2002 22:28									#61
	Problems Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by quinns You just have to copy the files to your C: drive exactly as described there. In the example, I set up the sym4way_c.csg map. You can exchange the map, but you have to open the new map in cheat mode, then "Save Scenario As" and remember what you name it. You have to change the SCENARIO.TXT file in line one to match this name exactly. Right now, that name is "sym4way_c". Also, you have to copy over the savegame.csg file with whatever file you saved it to when you "Saved Scenario As". That is, go to the C:\Program Files\Activision\Civilization-Call To Power\ctp_program\ctp\save\games\Sennac (for example), change the file name there to "savegame.csg" and overwrite the file under the C:\Program Files\Activision\Civilization-Call To Power\scenarios\MyScenarioPack\scen0000 folder called savegame.csg. I'm sure you all will figure it out. See attached files for assistance. Good luck.

Have you tried the map as MP after this? I have done this and then loaded the map for an MP game for testing. The non-host player got extra tech/gold/PW and learned new tech at the rate of an AI. I hope someone else has figured out how to avoid this problem.

	09-05-2002 06:38									#62
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It works fine in "hot seat" MP mode. This is the first time we tried to run the custom map under Internet MP. It still needs some things ironed out. Try running the scenario at chieftain level, or saving the scenario at chieftain level. That shouldn't really matter, though... but it's worth a try. Strange that it adds gold and science at the MP level, but not at the Single, Pbem, or Hot seat levels.

	09-05-2002 10:05									#63
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I have reviewed what has been posted thus far and feel I should make my statement.

Map: Any map that has equal start areas and is available to all players to examine beforehand is fine. We will adjust our favored strategies using the knowledge gained before the game even starts.

Settlers: 9-This is a must to get the games completed within a reasonable timeframe. Starting with fewer will only slow down the games.

Gold: 100 per settler, that would be 900 if we use nine settlers as I suggest. Not much rush buying until you start to generate more gold.

Level/Barbs: Deity/Ruins only. Since we will have a pre-made map with no ruins, we will have no barbs.

Tech: The standard three tech (random) that you get on Deity level. Recommend that players be allowed a restart if they are not able to rersearch Religon right away.

Wonders: None, this is how most net games are played. In 1 v 1 contests, Wonders are to unbalancing.

Pillage/Piracy: Both allowable.

Tourney Format: Swiss System 6 rounds. 1 point for win, 0 for loss, 1/2 point for draw. Use firm round deadlines, both players get a loss if game not completed. If player stalls, he is out of tourney. If you are running up against the deadline, either agree to a draw or play faster

	09-05-2002 18:37									#64
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To all: my cable ISP must be having some problems now, so I don't know what will happen now.

	09-05-2002 19:42									#65
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Quinns- I think that it will work as an MP - there is no difference other than the possibility the AI adds 200pw to other player I think.

Swissy- I agree- definitive rules there - the only thing that we cannot do is pirate.. But I would suggest Swissies statement of rules can be more or less directly used.

	09-05-2002 21:51									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Quinns- I think that it will work as an MP - there is no difference other than the possibility the AI adds 200pw to other player I think.

Gav, if you want to set it up, I am willing to play test it with you. Perhaps I am doing something wrong...

	09-05-2002 21:58									#67
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Once a player takes an AI spot there is no scope for different research speeds - Unless explicit references are made with SLIC command to human player number- IF u test it against AI then things are different- The only thing I can think is u do not have the 1.21 hack which gets rid of some of the buggies with scenarios?

Right now I am about to continue a mother of a game with Catete. Then later Blackice.... I wish we could get Blackice into comp as he is still a superb player even though his mental faculties must be about wiped out through the onset of his rapidly advancing years...... ..... Hey Trade descriptions..... time to rename the old codger Greyice, or the Talking Corpse??

	09-05-2002 23:02									#68
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Since you're using a scenario anyway fixing the PW (and gold) issue is easy - just add an altered DiffDB.txt to the relevant scenario directory (...\default\gamedata\). I attach one in which - at every difficulty level - both human and AI players start with 100 gold, 0 PW and 1 settler. It would be easy to alter the start gold if you wish.

Attachment: diffdb.txt
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	10-05-2002 01:39									#69
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I've finally finished the first stage design of my new map - in other words I've only got the coasts, deep water, rivers and goods to go. At present there is no land connection, but that can very easily be changed - the land comes within a square so the addition of a single tile will create a land bridge (well, two, actually because there has to be another to maintain symmetry on the opposite side of the world). There's quite a lot of coastline so I'm a little worried about SOTLs, but I've taken measures against that. I've tried to take everyones comments into account, but there's still a hefty chunk of my instinct in there too.

	11-05-2002 01:00									#70
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Sorry for chain posting, but...

Here it is, more or less. No sea goods yet, but I wanted to let you have a look at it ASAP. I didn't bother with the scenario file structure - you shoul be able to just double click the save game. (If that doesn't work I'll make a new zip).

Hope you like it.

Gav: Now you can see what a glide reflection is

Did that DiffDB help anyone?.. Now I think about it more it would actually be possible to remove the AI science/gold/etc. bonuses with a modified version of DiffDB too. Anyone interested?

Attachment: comp2.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	11-05-2002 04:01									#71
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That is one superb Map!!!

I like the whole design - the Island Groupings, the lot - My map of choice... I understand what u mean about the glide, yes, and it makes the map prettier too - that was some piece of work!!

	11-05-2002 15:26									#72
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Glad you like it - though since it stemmed from your suggestion it's hardly surprising. Any other opinions? Especially about the whole land bridge issue. So far (IIRC) only Solver and Gav (for) and Yoda (against) have posted their opinions.

As I said before there is none at present on this most recent map but the land is close enough that you can hop the gap in a turn to drop the troops off without getting sunk en route. Or you can risk going further by sea and drop the troops off in an unexpected spot.

Has anyone got MP working on any of these maps yet? I assume that it being the weekend now will help.

	11-05-2002 15:31									#73
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Quinns and me are play yesying the MP from premade maps this afternoon!

There is only one slight problem with the map or at least I thought there was - the start position - U cannot settle there as no water access - But maybe that was by design? U can go in several directions so no one will know where your start position is? A nice touch!

	11-05-2002 16:03									#74
	Got spare money?

I had intended the initial position to be less than ideal, to offer at least the possibility of moving, but I must confess the water issue passed me by... I tend to place rivers primarily from a geographical perspective rather than a gameplay one, and there was desert just by there so I didn't put a river. I think I won't change it, though. It's another choice. Stay here and keep the elephants, or waste some time now so we can have farms and grow faster later.

	11-05-2002 18:40									#75
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Good looking map Jbytheway!

However, I see what Yoda is talking about now. There is no problem with the sym4way_c map -- It works just fine in Internet play. Yoda must have been testing the Jbytheway map when he got his errors. I loaded J's map and got the same exact errors that Yoda mentioned above --- extra gold, pw, and tech to the Orange player (player 2). I was able to fix the gold and public works by subtracting 500 pw and 7900 gold from the Orange player only in order to make the players equal (0 pw and 100 gold) -- (done via the cheat mode editor). However, I couldn't fix the science. The Orange player was getting one new advance each turn, regardless of the science generated by the settled city. Jbytheway mentioned the use of the DIFFDB.txt file. My guess is that this file was altered on J's computer while (or before) he made this map. My suggestion to Jbytheway is to restore the DIFFDB.txt file to the factory settings and try to regenerate the map. That might fix it.

One more suggestion, J -- Fix the rainbow edged mountains on the southern edge by just replacing that terrain. I did that and it removed the rainbow edged tiles. (I don't know if it makes a difference one way or the other, but it eliminates a potential problem later.)

Other than that, it looks real good!

	11-05-2002 19:15									#76
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I'm fairly sure that my DiffDB is and always was on normal settings - the altered one I created but never put in a game directory. Try the attached savegame version of my first map - I have a hunch it might be better. You should be able to just load this one into single player and do whatever you want with it. This is the version I generated with /exportmap and /importmap to move it out of a scenario so the goods aren't quite perfect but it will do for testing purposes.

If that doesn't work then I have another plan, so tell me.

Which map had the rainbowed mountains?

Attachment: comp1.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	12-05-2002 00:21									#77
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I tried loading the comp1 map into a scenario and got the same exact problem as Yoda and I got with the comp2 map. I don't know Jbytheway. I am done testing this one. I can't make "comp1" or "comp2" work properly in a hot seat or internet scenario. Maybe someone else has some ideas. Again, sym4way_c works fine in hot seat and internet mode, so the "method" of running a scenario tests out fine. Best if you tested it yourself if you really want it to be used in competition. It would be a shame if you couldn't get it working. The rainbow mountain edges show on the comp2 map on the bottom edge toward the left.

	12-05-2002 01:55									#78
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I can't test it myself on internet games because I can't play those, but I'll have a shot at hotseat.

	12-05-2002 05:11									#79
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Okay... if it works on hotseat it should work on internet. Good luck.

	13-05-2002 00:09									#80
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Right. I tried it out on hotseat and I saw what you mean about the science. Even wierder, though, is the fact that there were three Barbarian players to choose from...

So I reinstalled CTP (Just to purge any leftovers from my modding days) and then, with extreme cunning (even if I do say so myself ) created the scenario from within a fresh hotseat game (importing the map), thus deftly sidestepping the AI-leftover issues (which might have gone anyway, but I didn't want to take any chances). Played a few turns and there's no suspicious Barbarian player options or extra-fast science. Give me a while to sort the trade goods out and I should have something useable, but in the mean time I attach the new Savegame.csg (to replace the original in the first competition scenario structure - are you all confused yet?). If someone else could just give it a quick shot on hotseat and make sure it works on another computer than mine I'd appreciate it.

Attachment: comp1.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	13-05-2002 02:05									#81
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OK, this (attached) should be a finished version of the second map in scenario form (unzip to ...\scenarios\Comp2). It appears to have no tech problems like the previous ones did, both players start with one settler, the three basic techs, 0 PW and 100 Gold. The starting conditions can be altered if desired.

Attachment: comp2.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	13-05-2002 07:33									#82
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It works perfectly! Good work JBTW, I'm sure the group will be happy with your efforts. That took much work -- I know. Your map is very realistic, symmetrical, and playable -- and a good LOOKING map too -- ( NOT like my Parchesi map! ). In fact, if your looking for one more mediocre player to join your league... I'm in, if invited. I'm not too far past the deadline ... Am I? Anyway, you need another PBEM player in the mix. I just remember seeing Swissy as the only other PBEM representative.

	13-05-2002 14:26									#83
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- Thats great Quinns!

	13-05-2002 16:50									#84
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It lakes maybe a clear definition of cheats.

	13-05-2002 17:34									#85
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I would like to see a definition of that myself too Zobo. I think we have has that much debating on maps we forgot about the rest....

I want this thing to START!!! But competitors have stopped posting.

	13-05-2002 17:52									#86
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I hope I didn't scare them all away with my maths

	13-05-2002 18:19									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka - Thats great Quinns!

Does that mean that I am invited to join the CTP Internet Round Robin League Competition (CTPIRRLC -- what a long name)? I can muster up 4 hours per week. Is that enough time to devote to this?

	13-05-2002 19:52									#88
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Quinns, I would not have it any other way - Solver I am sure will confirm, But of course you are in the cpxvilmntttd competition.. Kinda catchy don't u think.......

J B, I think u should have started with basic arithmetic.. Say u don't have a Carol Vordeman fetish do you.....

	13-05-2002 20:04									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka J B, I think u should have started with basic arithmetic.. Say u don't have a Carol Vordeman fetish do you.....

Basic arithmetic, eh? Well, I define the natural numbers N to be a set containing the element 1 and the operation S:N->N with the 5 peano postulates... Need I go on?..

Carol Vordeman? Hah! She can count, but she never does *real* maths .

	13-05-2002 20:37									#90
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Hey I am the guy who came from Prior Pursglove College J B.. and in 1984, it had the highest ever percentage of Students (my year) who were accepted for Oxford & Cambridge... I am not sure but there was an incredibly gifted guy Called Tim Bollands who went to study at Cambridge I think - if you look at the roll-call for that year he should be about - Studied some Pure form of Maths.

Carol Vordeman in Leather brandishing a slide rule... who could ask for more.......