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Pin
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Norway
Mar 2000
time: 05:13
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im back
just got my comp back from reperations
I say 3 settler and 100 gold but nothing more
but if you do 1 settler you add 10 more minutes of playing to the game maybe 15 min, but youll add another dimension as the game will stay longer in ancient and you wont move so fast onto ren.....
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quinns
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Here is a final version of JBTW's Scenario. I added 2 more settlers to make it 3 each (it seems 3 settlers, 100 gold, is the general concensus), and only changed the terrain slightly by adding a river through both settlers' starting position. (I hope you don't mind J Bytheway, I kept it symmetric  ). Anyway, I played a practice round in hot-seat mode for 20 turns and here were my results at year 3000 B.C. You all may do much better than I did in your practices.
Romans: 6 Cities, 105 Gold per Turn, 214 Prod per turn, 3 new Technologies.
Americans: 5 Cities, 108 Gold per Turn, 226 Prod per turn, 3 new Technologies.
Attached is the zip file for the savegame.csg and the scenario.txt file. (Comp3).
 Attachment: comp3.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).
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Patryn
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United States
Apr 2002
time: 23:13
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I was thinking, Yoda, you say that we should eliminate all the luck from the game. And many agree that the maps should be nice and symetrical, and I like that. But, many strategies involve manipulating the luck factor and using that to extra advantage in their game. And, if a map is symetrical, it is quite predictable and takes out much need to explore, especially if there are no ruins. Once the enemy's position has been found(which we will all already know) there is not much need to send out explorers. We already know in advance where we want to put our settlers, where we can send our units to find the choke points and strategically important locations without having to do anything. I like the symetrical map, and the luck factor being taken out but, it does limit quite a few strategies in the process. I realize it would be difficult to create another map to handle this, but it is a factor to be considered. Call to Power is not simply a game where set strategies are played out and a war is won. There are many factors that can not be planned for ahead of time and must be taken care of in game. With a pre-made, symetrical map, you know which fork to take in the river, that will lead you to block off the enemy progress and you do not have to send scouts off in every direction for many turns on end. With such a map, all the units that may have been used for exploration can be consolidated on site, and they can all be directed at the enemy far too soon. I like the map, and whatever is decided for us to play on is fine with me. I just hope everyone realizes what a symetrical map means to the playing of the game. Reacting to the randomness of the terrain and deciding on whether to go to the right or the left in the fork in the river, without knowing where either will lead you, is very much a foundation of the game, especially early on. If everyone is worried about the speed of the game, it will certainly be quite fast if you already know where you are going, without any other distractions such as directional decisions and ruins.
Well, there is my 2 cents. Whatever we do is fine with me.
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quinns
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Why not test it? Gavrushka and I can play out a "test" match using the JBTW map with 3 Settlers to see if it truly will take 45 hours per game as Swissy fears. What do you think Gav and Solver?
If neither side attacks, I can see that it might take 45 hours. The later turns with 100 cities and hundreds of units can take a long time just to play one turn. But I have a feeling that one side or the other will attack within 100 turns in our competition matches.
Gavrushka is right about Chess, (even though I know he was joking). If speed, fairness, and quick conclusions is what you seek, play Chess on-line! In the Internet Chess Club you can finish 5 games in one hour! The games are rated and recorded and moderated for possible cheating.
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Pin
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Norway
Mar 2000
time: 05:13
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Well all read Yodas post on top of this page.
1 settler and 100 gold start will ONLY delay the game with 10-20 min. Thats the time it will take to get to the 9 settler start some is suggesting. Well im up for sacrificing 10-20 min to find the best player from the toughest settings. I do NOT belive its possible to deny that the 1 settler start is the toughest and the original settings. Also that will add 10-20 min of game play and well im up for 10-20 min longer games.
Over to the long times these games will take. I strongly belive it will have to take long time to play as all these players here are pretty even and good players and there wont be these big gaps you see if you play an player little below the top.
Becouse you wont get the gaps it will be hard and tough to win the games, but heck thats what we are looking for aint it????
And Solver i think 2000 gold start is an bad option as the gold will only help to even out the range from the best to the 2nd best players....
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quinns
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I'm with Pin and Yoda on the one settler, 100 gold start. The 3 settler proposal was an attempt at a compromise.
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yoda
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PG, BC, Canada
Nov 2000
time: 21:13
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Just looked at the "comp2" map for the first time. In general, I like this map. Lots of different choices to make for expansion. Lot's of production ground.
My only comment would be about the goods. In my opinion, there are FAR too many. Quadruple goods? Please JBYTheWay, don't take this wrong or personal. The amount of effort you put into this map is amazing. Congratulations.
Now to the problem about the goods. With that many goods, WAR is not an option. The game will be heavily balanced towards the space race. Why? Science will advance so fast that by the time anyone tries to mount any kind of offensive, their units will be obsolete. After quickly looking at the map, it is my estimate that I will be learning modern age tech at a rate of 1 per every 3 turns. That means by the time a person gets to Marines (assuming both players are equal), it will only be about 13 turns before nukes arrive and another 3 turns before interceptors are around. Just how many marines/transports with supporting ships do you think you could get before they become radioactive dust? Furthuremore, any attempt at an early invasion with Ren. Age tech would meet a similar end because modern age would come up so rapidly.
On the other hand, having science advance so rapidly would mean that quick hit and run tactics with small strike forces would be very effective. Space planes/fighers would become very critical as well as interceptor/paratroopers. However, the concept of a huge military campaign is just not viable in my opinion.
If we do play with this map (and I think it is good enough to use...), perhaps the removal of the quadruples and thinning out the goods a bit would work. But that is up to everyone. I don't mind a good science race as long as everyone else likes that type of game.
yoda
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quinns
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Okay Gavrushka. So it's you vs. me on the comp3 scenario right? Saturday sometime? ** Note that the COMP3 scenario (above) is J-Bytheway's COMP2 map with 3 settlers and a river running through the settler's starting position. See above.
If we do the test, I think we should all use the same scenario as attached above (i.e. the COMP3 scenario). If you don't know how to set up the scenario on your computer, see an earlier thread by Quinns about this set up. (Yoda, I think you can get your map to work as well using these instructions.)
From page 2 of this same thread...
"You just have to copy the files to your C: drive exactly as described there. In the example, I set up the sym4way_c.csg map. You can exchange the map, but you have to open the new map in cheat mode, then "Save Scenario As" and remember what you name it. You have to change the SCENARIO.TXT file in line one to match this name exactly. Right now, that name is "sym4way_c". Also, you have to copy over the savegame.csg file with whatever file you saved it to when you "Saved Scenario As". That is, go to the C:\Program Files\Activision\Civilization-Call To Power\ctp_program\ctp\save\games\Sennac (for example), change the file name there to "savegame.csg" and overwrite the file under the C:\Program Files\Activision\Civilization-Call To Power\scenarios\MyScenarioPack\scen0000 folder called savegame.csg. I'm sure you all will figure it out. See attached files for assistance. Good luck."
Also refer to the thread discussion about the CTP Competition MAP to see details on how to set up the scenario to run any custom map in an on line scenario.
Last edited by quinns on 23-05-2002 at 00:38
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21-05-2002 15:23
It seems we have agreed on Nothing! 
I think it is time for Solver to decide the definitive rules.... This Comp must get started soon! 
) then I'll happily change it. At this rate you're just going to have to either poll everyone on every issue or else just get solver to declare (and it's obvious which would be quicker).
. I wanted to start the first game this Friday, maybe. Suckers 
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