 |
| |
|
|
Lonestar
|
 |
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
The Borg are from Delta
|
That's true.
quote:
where do those humans come from?
|
Don't know, but it isn't the Milky Way Galaxy/
Unless contradicted by the movies, yep.
quote:
If a big threat comes along, I know they will all ally against a common enemy. We know the Borg do this. The Federation does it all the time. As do the others.
If we add the dominion the war will be over pretty quickly. We know they are friendly towards the Federation now thanks to Odo, so it won't be hard to convince them to fight along side them. Also, even before the Dominion War even began, the Dominion had some temporary "alliances" with the Federation to take out a mutual threat. With those big Jem'Hadar ships (the one from the ep Valiant) the Empire will be finished in no time.
Jem Hadar clone soldiers vs Stormtrooper clone soldiers? Interesting. But we know Jem Hadar are a lot tougher than Stormtroopers.
But in general I think both the Dominion and Collective could defeat the Empire one on one. So could Species 8472 btw.
8472 vs The Empire? Since the Empire doesn't have nanoprobes I don't think there is much they can do to stop the bioships from taking over the Galaxy.
So 5 scenarios: Dominion vs Empire, Collective vs Empire, Species 8472 vs Empire,
Federation/Klingons/Romulans/Cardasians vs Empire, Federation/Klingons/Breen/Romulans/Cardasians/Dominion/Borg vs Empire.
1 will be an easy win for the Empire. 2 will be evenly matched. 2 the Empire would lose. |
Let's talk about Coalitions for a moment, shall we?
(1) of all, we're assming the Empire would be combating the powers of the Milky Way. S8472 isn't in the milky, they're in "fluidic space"(whatever the hell that means). So, S8472 are out.
(2)No alliance would be formed that would include the Borg. Even if the alliance were able to defeat the Empire (unlikely, IMO) the Milky Way would be overrun with Borg vessels. The medicine, as the saying goes, would be worse than the cure. Many Local Nation/Empires would swicth sides completely and join the Empire right then and there.
(3)The Dominion, as they pissed away so many assets in their Alpha Quadrant campiagn, probaly has enough trouble keeping sufficent force in the Gamma Quadrant, and undoubtably would not be inclined to send forces away from their home territories after they lost 2800 warships in the Bajoran Wormhole incident. These assumes, of course, that the Alpha Quadrant Powers would want to run the risk of giving the Dominion bases in the AQ again.
(4) Because of its losses in the Dominion War, the Cardassian empire would be a non-factor in any war against the Empire. With the bulk of its outer colonies annexed by the Romulan and Klingon empires and its homeworld devastated by Jem'Hadar aggression, the Cardassian Empire has effectively ceased to exist as a military power. Moreover, the destruction to its assets and military-industrial base was so extensive that they will be unable to recover for decades, if ever.
(5)The Romulans are extremely xenophobic, sitting out the DW up until the Federation tricked them into thinking the Dominion was on the Verge of attacking them. They might see this as a "Human problem", and may even be able to take the oppurtunity to cut their own deal with the Empire, and take over Vulcan and her colonies.
(6)The Klingons, the most likely AQ power to stick by the Federation in any war with the Empire, assuming they too don't percieve it as a "Human affair". Remember, it was Section-31's own prediction that the Klingon Empire would be spending "The next Ten years" recovering from the DW, and might be so inclined as to see what deal they can cut with the Empire.
(7)Coalition-building is potentially useful, but given the relative immaturity and numerical weakness of the major local military powers, even the most optimistic scenario (the full backing of the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Dominion, and the Borg) would be unlikely to stop an Imperial advance. Therefore, while coalition-building is a laudable goal, more creative strategies would be necessary for the Milky Way galaxy to eventually through out the Empire.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lonestar
|
|
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Speaking of Star Wars, did anyone see the Star Wars Fan Film Awards on Sci-Fi? |
Yep
Last edited by Lonestar on 21-05-2002 at 07:59
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
|
|
I'm willing to bet, as Lonestar states, many Alpha Quadrant groups would make deals with the Empire and align with them, particularly if that meant taking down the Federation. The notion they would team with the Borg is ludicrous, as I'm sure they'd rather be ruled by the Empire than assimilated by the Borg.
That's the disadvantage of the coalition idea, though: It's easy for a unified Empire, invading the Milky Way, with unquestioned loyalty to the Emperor, to avoid sectional strife, while the coalition could be shattered just by promising spoils to those who jump ship against the Feds.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lonestar
|
|
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
At it's "peak of power" the Empire had it's hands full fighting the Rebels.
Also, why assume The Empire pre-Endor and the Federation post-Dominion or Borg pro-8472?
|
(1)So? Not "That" full of it's hands. Indeed, as the saying goes, a Empire founded by war must be maintained by war. The Milky Wat galaxy would prove a good way to unify the Galaxy behind Emperor Palpatine.
(2)Because, post-DW Alpha Quadrant powers began to show a bit more creativity towards the end there.
quote:
Taoists don't run around with light sabres 
|
Oh yeah? Just how many Taoists do you know? Thought not.
quote:
It happened before.
|
Yeah, and everyone remembers how little time it took the Borg to weasel out of the deal. Also, as I said, Many Milky Way species would probaly be compelled to throw in their lot with the only power that can credibly defeat the Borg: The Empire. I don't know about you, but I would think twice before starting a alliance where, even if our side were to somehow win, the most likely event is that the Alpha Quadrant becomes swarming with Brg vessels.
quote:
Most didn't join the dominion when it first appeared.
|
No, just signed "nonaggression treaties". So, there ios a precedent for the AQ powers pussyfooting out.
quote:
Anyway, I'd really like to know where those humans come from. I always assumed they weren't human, but that can't be the case since they've being called "human". Can someone clarify this? |
They come from Coruscant.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Saint Marcus
|
 |
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
|
|
quote:
All of the Humans in the galaxy are descended from Coruscant. |
even those on Earth?
How did they get here, and are there other humans in our own galaxy?
quote:
And why is it all ST alien races look like humans in really bad make up jobs and prosthetics with weird hairdos? |
can't look much sillier than Leia.
reason: budget. you can't expect a tv show to have the same bugdet as an over-hyped movie.
quote:
They are called human because that is the name of the species. Why would they be called anything else? |
it's an english word for people in general, not our species specifically. and others are named after their homeworld/system, so why not us "humans".
same goes for star trek, but at least humans have been called earthlings, terrans, and homo sapiens (ST VI). And of course, hewmons
I find it a bit silly that in most sci-fi shows and movies, our species is called human. We should be called Terrans of course, our planet not Earth but Terra, and our sun not sun but Sol. In Star Trek, this is done seldom sadly (though better than never).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
even those on Earth?
How did they get here, and are there other humans in our own galaxy? |
No, I was only referring to those in the SW galaxy.
quote:
can't look much sillier than Leia. |
Come on, those aliens on Voyager with the wierd hairdo thing...SW has nothing on them.
quote:
reason: budget. you can't expect a tv show to have the same bugdet as an over-hyped movie. |
Same reason, then, applies to SW. How stupid and impractical would it be to have all of the main characters be some alien race that required tons more $$$ in make-up and prosthetics? The first SW didn't have a mega-budget either, ya know. And here's another factor: Audience relations. The audience is going to identify with human characters because they are familiar.
quote:
it's an english word for people in general, not our species specifically. and others are named after their homeworld/system, so why not us "humans". |
Huh? Um, do you go around referring to all animals by their scientific species name? Because nobody refers to their pet dog as a canus whatever, I'm sure. And Han Solo is referred to as a Corellian, so people in SW universe are identified by their home planets, too.
quote:
same goes for star trek, but at least humans have been called earthlings, terrans, and homo sapiens (ST VI). And of course, hewmons
I find it a bit silly that in most sci-fi shows and movies, our species is called human. We should be called Terrans of course, our planet not Earth but Terra, and our sun not sun but Sol. In Star Trek, this is done seldom sadly (though better than never). |
Why? Isn't our planet most commonly referred to as Earth? Who goes around calling it Terra? Who calls other people "Homo Sapiens" or "Terrans?" This is just silly, come on. If people ask me what species I belong to, I and 99% of people would say "human." I certainly wouldn't answer that question "New Yorker." That would answer where I live, not what species I am. So why doesn't it go to reason the same would be true in the SW universe for the species there?
Sorry, just don't get what you're complaining about. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
human is not our species. it's a name for people in general. we also say "human rights", and when we meet sentient aliens those same human rights will be applicable to them. |
Since we have yet to encounter other sentient species, human beings certainly does only refer to our species. Does anyone ever refer to Vulcans or Klingons as Human in ST?
quote:
And we call Vulcans after their homeworld. Same with Romulans, Cardasians, Corellians. So why not us too? I can understand we won't call ourselves that, but why shouldn't aliens name us after our planet? |
So this is a problem for ST, not SW. And irrelevant to this discussion.
quote:
And I know Han Solo wasn't called a human but Corellian. That's why I always believed Han and co aren't humans, but merely aliens who look like humans. However, in ep1, Anakin was called human. |
What the hell are you defining as human here? Perhaps "human" in SW is a different "human" than in our world. You say at first that you object to Terrans being called "Humans" in the ST world because that refers to "people in general," and then directly contradict this in the above statement by likening "human" to species. If this holds true:
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
human is not our species. it's a name for people in general. |
Then this is nonsensical:
quote:
That's why I always believed Han and co aren't humans, but merely aliens who look like humans. |
This has devolved into abject silliness.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lonestar
|
|
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
human is not our species. it's a name for people in general. we also say "human rights", and when we meet sentient aliens those same human rights will be applicable to them.
And we call Vulcans after their homeworld. Same with Romulans, Cardasians, Corellians. So why not us too? I can understand we won't call ourselves that, but why shouldn't aliens name us after our planet? |
Bzzzt! We Call the Klingons Klingons, even though they are from Qo'nos.
quote:
And I know Han Solo wasn't called a human but Corellian. That's why I always believed Han and co aren't humans, but merely aliens who look like humans. However, in ep1, Anakin was called human. |
He's Human, just as Candians, Americans, British, and to a lesser degree Dutchmen are. ( ) Coreillian is a reference to his nationality.
quote:
same species as us. how do they get there? or how do we get here? |
There's at least one supposition that, after a bloody war between the Empire and Federation (in which the Milky Way was stomped) Milky Way Humans fell throught the wormhole connecting the Milky Way to the SW Galaxy, but the wormhole went unstable and went further back in time.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:19.
Apolyton Time is 00:19. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-05-2002 03:23
)
|