25-05-2002 03:55									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison It's called being immature and juvenile, and hypocritical. They have the same challenges and problems, yet resort to the same tactics they have been the victim of. Sickening in fact.

I know. I've come to see the friend in question for the shallow little person he really is.

	25-05-2002 04:12									#122
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Well this makes him no better than the people who persecute him. In fact, in many ways, worse, because he should have empathy.

	25-05-2002 04:40									#123
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Where were you guys when I was arguing this on another thread with Boris

	25-05-2002 04:46									#124
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Where were you guys when I was arguing this on another thread with Boris

Ooooooh don't start, wascally wabbit. What you and I are arguing about over THERE isn't the same thing they're arguing about over HERE.

	25-05-2002 04:50									#125
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Honestly Boris, it was. I may have expressed it differently because of how it started but thats essentially what I was trying to get at.

	25-05-2002 04:57									#126
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No, over THERE we're cleary arguing over whether or not it is "bigoted" to choose not to date a bisexual.

Over HERE they are arguing about people being bigoted against bisexuals in general or discounting their reality (i.e. the notion that bisexuals don't really exist).

Sufferin' succotash

	25-05-2002 04:58									#127
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Well come on Boris, what did you say in this 'other thread'?

	25-05-2002 05:08									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well come on Boris, what did you say in this 'other thread'?

Why do you assume it was something I said, and not he?



http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=1

There's the thread. Let's not jack this one.

	25-05-2002 05:09									#129
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I looked to see if I had misread, heres the last few posts:

red_john
"bisexuality seems to be a rather more unadressed issue and I know gay people who dislike bisexuals. I don't get it."

PH

"It's called being immature and juvenile, and hypocritical. They have the same challenges and problems, yet resort to the same tactics they have been the victim of. Sickening in fact."

RJ
"I know. I've come to see the friend in question for the shallow little person he really is."

PH

"Well this makes him no better than the people who persecute him. In fact, in many ways, worse, because he should have empathy."

What Boris and I discussed was a comment made by MrFun. In a number of posts he said he would have sex with a bisexual but wouldnt have a relationship with one. This was in a thread about a hetero who was having doubts about a girl he was planning to live with, but he thouht was bisexual (and it was a problem for him, maybe a moral problem) I thought that MF's comments were somewhat ironic in this context and made an allusion that it was a form of bigotry.

	25-05-2002 05:19									#130
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SpencerH, and herein you have provided the very difference to which I was referring:

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I looked to see if I had misread, heres the last few posts: red_john "bisexuality seems to be a rather more unadressed issue and I know gay people who dislike bisexuals. I don't get it." What Boris and I discussed was a comment made by MrFun. In a number of posts he said he would have sex with a bisexual but wouldnt have a relationship with one.

red_john was referring to LIKING bisexuals, not dating.

MrFun never asserted he disliked bisexuals, and in fact openly declared the opposite. What he said is that he chooses not to date one. And you again seem to failing to recognize the simple fact that gays, bisexuals or straights have the absolute, uncontestable right to date or not date whomever they choose without being obliged to explain themselves to you.

	25-05-2002 05:24									#131
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OK, but I'm still interested in the why?

	25-05-2002 05:29									#132
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH OK, but I'm still interested in the why?

Why not?

	25-05-2002 05:33									#133
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I agree, if MrFun has said this, it is hypocritical...

	25-05-2002 05:41									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I agree, if MrFun has said this, it is hypocritical...

Read the whole thread I cited. MrFun was not being hypocritical at all. He was simply stating that he does not want to date bisexuals. He's gay, not bisexual. He does not hate bisexuals at all or think they are bad or wrong. He just doesn't want to date one. And he doesn't have to justify it any more than you have to justify who you would or wouldn't date. Nobody has to justify that, ever.

	25-05-2002 05:50									#135
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Yeah read the thread. It would have been better with some other viewpoints than with just Boris and I going back and forth.

Last edited by SpencerH on 25-05-2002 at 05:58

	25-05-2002 06:05									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Read the whole thread I cited. MrFun was not being hypocritical at all. He was simply stating that he does not want to date bisexuals. He's gay, not bisexual. He does not hate bisexuals at all or think they are bad or wrong. He just doesn't want to date one. And he doesn't have to justify it any more than you have to justify who you would or wouldn't date. Nobody has to justify that, ever.

Homosexuality means his sexual taste is in men, not homosexuals. To discriminate against bisexuals is still an act of hypocrisy.

	25-05-2002 06:11									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Homosexuality means his sexual taste is in men, not homosexuals. To discriminate against bisexuals is still an act of hypocrisy.

Absolutely not. This is utterly offensive to me.

First, being attracted to someone and choosing to date someone are two ENTIRELY different things. I find plenty of straight men pleasing to look at, but I have no desire to date them.

Judging anyone's choice on who they choose to date is 100% hypocritical coming from someone who supposedly supports gay rights. Such thinking is EXACTLY what gay rights is trying to combat.

Choosing not to date someone isn't discriminating against them, not hiring them for a job is. Choosing whom you date is a personal, private and sacred choice. How dare you accuse someone of hypocrisy on such grounds.

	25-05-2002 07:13									#138
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quote: Choosing not to date someone isn't discriminating against them, not hiring them for a job is. Choosing whom you date is a personal, private and sacred choice. How dare you accuse someone of hypocrisy on such grounds.

Choosing who you hire can also be a personal, private, and sacred choice .

	25-05-2002 07:20									#139
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quote: Choosing who you hire can also be a personal, private, and sacred choice .

No it isn't and stop threadjacking.

	25-05-2002 12:24									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Homosexuality means his sexual taste is in men, not homosexuals. To discriminate against bisexuals is still an act of hypocrisy.

Gee, you never met me in person, and you already know me inside and out.


Look -- bisexuals are as deserving of legitimacy as homosexuals and heterosexuals.

As I have said, what --- THREE OR FOUR TIMES already, I am willing to have casual sex with bisexuals -- just not monogamous relationships with them.

Would you accuse a white person for preferring to have a long-term relationship with only another white person, as being racist??

No, of course not -- mono-racial relationships in of themselves does not indicate racism.

	25-05-2002 12:53									#141
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I have to agree with MrFun and Boris on this one.
Respecting someone for what they are, and considering someone as a potential partner are two seperate issues.
Assuming you are looking for a monagamous relationship, you must by definition be picky in choosing your partner out of a potential 6 billion other people. Making a judgement like that, even seemingly trivial things make a huge difference.

	25-05-2002 13:24									#142
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun As I have said, what --- THREE OR FOUR TIMES already, I am willing to have casual sex with bisexuals -- just not monogamous relationships with them. Would you accuse a white person for preferring to have a long-term relationship with only another white person, as being racist?? No, of course not -- mono-racial relationships in of themselves does not indicate racism.

Why are bisexuals ok to screw but not to date? Why would someone's bi status make them anymore likely to be a snarky slut than anyone else? i'm not saying bi's can't be sluts but so can st8's and gays, but somehow people still seem to keep having long term relationships w/each other. i remember a time not so long ago, gay men were considered to be hyperpromiscuos and incapable of loving relationships.

	25-05-2002 13:28									#143
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As Boris said earlier in this thread, Mrfun has the right to date or not date whoever he wants, and without apologizing for it. That is at the heart of the gay rights movement and he doesn't need to write a thesis on exactly why he does or doesn't choose to date bis.

	25-05-2002 13:30									#144
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Bis get the problem of being stuck in the middle.

Gays often don't want relationships with bisexuals because of insecurity reasons with theirselves, and some straights don't want bisexuals because of insecurity reasons with theirselves.

It honestly defies all logic completely, and I do find it offensive that some posters here who pretend to be champions for equal rights and opportunties have stated that they'd prefer not to have relationships with a bisexual person.

There's absolutely no reason for this, and I find it offensive to be honest.

Bisexual doesn't mean you see two people at once.
Bisexual people are just as capable of monogamous relationships as everyone else, and when they're in a monogamous relationship they're effectively gay or straight (depending on the sex of the partner) so it's a complete nonissue.

Those who try to say otherwise are just being shallow and a tad bit immature.

	25-05-2002 13:36									#145
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Aww, Ashie it's not about disrespect for bis, honest! Me, Boris, Fun, Jonmiller, and a number of extremely liberal minded individuals have no problem with bis as people, or in having equal rights as heteros.
Essentially it comes down to this, I will happily fight for your rights to equality, but as a matter of personal preference, I and others in this thread simply don't want to date bis. It's really nothing too overly complex or with sinister undertones, it's just a matter of preference.

	25-05-2002 13:39									#146
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Still shallow, regardless.

	25-05-2002 13:47									#147
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I can see why you might think that Ashie, but it's not really any more shallow than the guy who doesn't want to date red-head chicks, and certainly those guys don't get much attention in these threads.
I know there are some subtle differences between guys who won't date bi chicks and guys who won't date red-heads but the underlying principle is still the same: it's nothing more than a matter of preference. Certainly all of us, straight, gay or bi should be able to date whomever we prefer without question, no?

	25-05-2002 13:50									#148
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Only it's not like a redhead.

Bisexuals effectively become straight or gay depending who they are partners with.

It's like as soon as you enter a monogamous relationship with someone who originally had redhair, and the second you started the relationship their hair turned to blond.

At that point I can't see why it's an issue, or why anyone would care to have a preference either way, because their hair is certainly not red anymore.

So it is disturbing that even the liberal thinkers on both sides of the fence don't want to date bi people for superficial and shallow reasons. What does that leave bi people to? A life of casual sex with people like MrFun?

	25-05-2002 14:03									#149
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Well you must understand that relationships are a two-way street ashie, and that not all people, gay or straight, think the same way fun, boris, and I think. It is just happens to be the preference of us three, by whatever random forces determine the sexual prefences of an individual.
So just because we three think this way doesnt mean the world does, and that you are destined to a life of brief sexual encounters. It just happens to be the particular preference of us three, not out of a spite for bis or anything of that nature, but out of a simple preference. So don't worry, we have no sinster intentions here, we just have a preference as simple as any preferences you may have toward certain types of people. So don't take our personal feelings too seriously, please.

	25-05-2002 14:11									#150
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How would the contributors to this thread feel if I said that I would never marry a [fill in the blank race] because they can never be trusted to behave?

Isn't Asher's point that sexual preference is not relevant to monogomy?