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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Eli
What core?
And who will that be?
Yeah, very nice. Dead soldier in Kalkiliya, 4+ killed in Jerusalem 20 minutes ago... Yupee. |
hi ,
the core of 3000 (+-) people who like to do nothing more then to make war , the leaders , .....
who , well , all the refugees we have from all over the middle east , and two , all the people who come to support their pal brothers , .....
including some eyropeans and americans who claim to do nothing more then to supply "aid" , ...
then also all the jordanians , the lebanese , the egyptians , the iranians , in short , anyone who support acts of terror , ...
last point , GLZ , every minute of the day , ... 
have a nice day
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:20
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No, clearly, blowing up Israeli buses is unacceptable. You can't sink to the terrorists level and try to take the moral highground at the same time, Eli. Building a wall around the Pals and shutting them in is, IMO, a terrible thing to do.
quote:
Why not?
If every village and city is being checked(simultaneosly, not like in Defensive Wall) and all gunmen are killed in sight? |
Err... how many soldiers do you have? How many villages and cities are there? Consider the fact, as you well know, that the civilian population (these would be the people you wouldn't shoot on sight) is against you and will actively aid those you are searching for. Consider the results when the US tried to root out the Viet Cong in Vietnam. We had all sorts of firepower and techonolgy... but the people were against us.
If you really believe that a full-blown IDF operation can wipe out Palestinian terrorism, you are, like I said, delusional. But I think your delusion is instructive, because it appears to match up pretty well with your PM's thought process.
-Arrian
[Disclaimer] By criticizing Israeli policy w/regard to the Palestinians, I do not condone terrorism vs. Israelis. The suicide bombers remain, in my mind, the most despicable (and detrimental to their own supposed cause) of all.[/disclaimer]
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
I think you're delusional. 99% of weapons and terrorists would be rooted out by the IDF? Comeon, surely you jest? You'll get some of them, maybe even most of them, but you're not gonna find 99%. Further, the sustained IDF action will help breed more terrorists. So then you pull back, build your wall, and they will still try to blow you up. Trying to stop any weapons going to the Pals would also be impossible. Building a giant wall around them? Shutting them off from the rest of the world? Do you actually think that is acceptable?
-Arrian |
hi ,
at one point we had most of the weapons , .... out of their hands , BUT , under the pressure of some people we had to give them weapons , to police themselves , ....
and yes we can get 99.99 of the weapons , .....
if our actions breath more terrorists , that remains to be seen , at least there is some support of the pals , the civilians that is to remove all the weapons , ...
have a nice day
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Adam Smith
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Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
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Anybody catch THIS item on MSNBC today about the Bush Administration's plan? Exerpt follows, my emphasis added.
quote:
Many in the administration remain doubtful that enough improvement can be made in the security situation within the next three months to secure the agreement of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the president’s plan and at least a partial pullback of Israeli military forces that provisional borders would require.
But Secretary of State Colin L. Powell has argued that, while the United States has an obligation to safeguard Israel’s security, nothing less than a time-specific “political horizon” would satisfy Arab leaders or give the Palestinian people enough hope to end their support of violence.
Bush’s speech, which had been scheduled for delivery today, was postponed in the wake of the latest Palestinian suicide bombing, a bus explosion that killed 19 Israelis yesterday in Jerusalem. Sources said that a new date has not been set but that plans are to deliver the speech between Thursday and Monday. Bush is scheduled to depart Tuesday for a two-day summit of the Group of Eight industrialized nations in Canada.
The president was told of the latest attack in a 5 a.m. telephone call yesterday from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice. “The general feeling was, you couldn’t walk out in the Rose Garden tomorrow and talk about ‘a peace proposal’ given what happened,” one source said. |
Note that the most recent bus bombing both delayed the introduction of the plan, and reduced the probability of its being introduced at all. One wonders if this is what the more radical Pals intended.
edit: emphasis
Last edited by Adam Smith on 19-06-2002 at 22:25
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
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The assumption that Powell is making is that the violence will end automatically when the Palestinians have a definite timetable for the creation of a Palestinian state. However as others have noted here, terrorist acts seem to be deliberately timed to disrupt the peace process itself. The perpetrators of the terrorist acts, Hamas for example, have never accepted the principle that Israel has a right to exist. Rather their objective seems to be to prevent a settlement on any basis that would "recognize" Israel. If this conclusion is correct, then simply setting a timetable for the creation of a Palestinian state will not end the violence, but may make it worse.
In contrast, Sharon's insistence that there has to be an end to violence prior to any serious peace negotiations seems to mean that there will be no serious peace negotiations in the foreseeable future because the violence obviously will not end so long as groups like to Hamas continue to operate.
It seems to me, therefore, that the only solution available here is to have the United States temporarily occupy Palestine provide security while the negotiations take place. The reason I suggest this is that the Israelis trust us and probably no one else.
Last edited by Ned on 20-06-2002 at 00:00
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
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My assumption, Arrian, is that US forces will be there with the full consent of the PA. They would probably be eager to have US forces substituted for Israeli forces.
Undoubtedly, the US will become targets to the extent we actually try to impose law and order. We must know this and accept the risks.
Once peace is established and the PA is functional, we can withdraw.
Last edited by Ned on 20-06-2002 at 00:17
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
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quote:
During the reoccupation you do house by house searching in every city, town and village and kill every gunman on sight. Together with destroying all underground tunnels in Gaza and smuggling routes in Judea&Samaria.
After this, 99% of the weapons, bombs and terrorists are non-existant you leave the cities, remove the isolated settlements and build a huge wall.
As long as all the borders of the Pal territories to the outside world are sealed, there is no way to get more weapons. Therefore, no terrorism. |
Sounds familiar... oh yeah Treaty of Versailles! That worked out well  .
And doesn't ANY Israeli balk at the idea of the enclosed wall? Doesn't it sound like a GHETTO, like say in Poland?
quote:
That's the problem though Imran. This isn't a diplomatic situation. It's murder. Murder is a crime. Terrorism is not a diplomatic tool. If the Pals stop the suicide bombings and want to negotiate, I'm sure Sharon would stop the incursions. |
Sharon would stop the incursions!
My ass! Sharon want's the Pals eliminated. He wants the same peace that Hamas wants, but with a different side winning. If the Palestinians stop the suicide bombing then Sharon will just as easily roll over them. This time knowing there will be no reprisals. After all, it was terrorism in the first place that got the Palestinians some governance of the West Bank.
I think Bush should simply recognize the West Bank and Gaza as the State of Palestine, and tell Israel any incursions and you are violating the soveriegnty of Palestine, and we'll do to you what we did to Iraq.
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19-06-2002 21:46
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