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Carver is offline Carver
Prince
reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by moominparatrooper
It's simple: in Zimbabwe Mugabe's racist minions have been killing whites - a policy Carver has defended by claiming that they're only recapturing what was once stolen.

So if a future government would come to the conclusion that welfare checks to black immigrants and their descendants in Europe is theft from Europe's taxpaying population, I guess our man Carver - so appropriate a name, btw - would applaud killing said black immigrants and their offpring too?


Zim has no policy to kill whites. In the recent political/land reform tension more blacks have died than whites. Why don't you mention the blacks? You must be racist if you ignore dead blacks but want to raise hell over a handful (less than 20 I believe) dead whites.

As for the European taxpayers, spending money voluntarily is not theft.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:19
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What the **** does Mugabe have to do with Police brutality in LA.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
What the **** does Mugabe have to do with Police brutality in LA.
We are a very free-form BBS.

Carver is offline Carver
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc


01001101011101010110011101100001011000100110010100
10000001101001011100110010000001110100011000010111
00100110011101100101011101000110100101101110011001
11001000000111011101101000011010010111010001100101
01110011001000000110000101110011001000000110000100
10000001100100011010010111011001100101011100100111
00110110100101101111011011100110000101110010011110
01001000000111010001100001011000110111010001101001
01100011001000000111010001101111001000000110010001
10100101110011011101000111001001100001011000110111
01000010000001101000011010010111001100100000011100
00011011110111000001110101011011000110000101100011
01100101001000000110011001110010011011110110110100
10000001110000011000010111100101101001011011100110
01110010000001110100011011110110111100100000011011
01011101010110001101101000001000000110000101110100
01110100011001010110111001110100011010010110111101
10111000100000011101000110111100100000011101000110
10000110100101100101011100100010000001110000011011
11011011000110100101110100011010010110001101100001
01101100001000000110000101101110011001000010000001
10010101100011011011110110111001101111011011010110
10010110001100100000011100000111001001101111011000
10011011000110010101101101011100110010111000000000


That might be part of it, but the land still needs to be reclaimed. The status quo is unacceptable.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
We are a very free-form BBS.


More like BS. At least from a lot of sources.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver

In other words you didn't like what I wrote but you know its true.


In other words, you're either totally ignorant of Mugabe's terrorist activities against mostly blacks in Rhodesia and against blacks and whites in Zimbabwe or you're lacking in the grey matter necessary for a rational conversation. Either way why should I bother to try?

Dinodoc is right.

moomin is offline moomin
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver
Zim has no policy to kill whites. In the recent political/land reform tension more blacks have died than whites.


So Mugabe's minions aren't stupid and racist only - they're inept as well. Not that killing farm workers who support the only income they ever had isn't all in a good day's job for Mugabe and his so-called war veterans.

quote:

Why don't you mention the blacks? You must be racist if you ignore dead blacks but want to raise hell over a handful (less than 20 I believe) dead whites.


Basically for the same reason we spend more time on Jewish, Slav and homosexual victims of the holocoast than by the German resistance who were also murdered. Whom the governments officially chooses to target makes a big difference, even if every murderous regime will have plenty of all sorts of blood on their hands.

And "less than 20"? This from the man who thought a war on the "terrorist" police was needed over a beating? I see.

quote:

As for the European taxpayers, spending money voluntarily is not theft.


Oh yeah? So neither is selling land, you know.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 10-07-2002 23:31
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quote:
“State of Disaster”
Mugabe’s Zimbabwe.

By Michael Radu

With famine now threatening the country, Robert Mugabe's regime in Zimbabwe has declared a state of disaster. Considering that Mugabe is the main reason for the disaster, there is a tragic irony in his implicit admission of the calamity he has brought to his country.

True enough, there is a drought in Southern Africa today, affecting all the region's countries — Lesotho and Mozambique, Swaziland, Zambia, Botswana, and Namibia — the only exception being, not surprisingly, the most important country: South Africa. Western humanitarian agencies and NGOs are now rushing food aid to the region, and , as usual, avoiding "judgments" as to the causes of the calamity.

Those causes range from simple bad luck and a backward infrastructure in cases like Lesotho and Mozambique to incompetence and corruption in many instances. Only in Zimbabwe is the famine a manmade (by Mugabe) crisis. In a sub-Saharan version of Stalin's policies of the 1930s, the state created famine to physically get rid of its opponents, a faster and cheaper way than murdering them on a wholesale basis (although, like Stalin, it is not that Mugabe has any compunction about doing this too). In Stalin's case, the enemy was hard-working kulaks — peasants, mostly in Ukraine, who by becoming prosperous became a "class enemy."

Marxist Mugabe went even further than the Soviet model. He added race to the poisonous mix that is now killing the people of Zimbabwe when he began a new "freedom fight" against the white minority in 1999. There is no lack of implicitly racist or ethnically exclusivist regimes in the world today, from Malaysia to Kosovo, but only Mugabe's is explicit and gets away with it. (As Mr. Mugabe said of whites at a September 2000 Harlem event during his visit to the U.S. for the U.N. millennium summit, "What we hate is not the color of their skins but the evil that emanates from them.") This is all the more horrifying because his destruction of Zimbabwe has an immediate impact on the entire region. Until a few years ago, Zimbabwe was, with South Africa, part of the "happy duo" of sub-Saharan countries that possessed a quasi-permanent food surplus, the result of a modern, efficient, large-scale — i.e. capitalist — agricultural sector. That meant that South African and Zimbabwean surpluses of maize and wheat by and large filled the gap in less efficient countries in the region. The agribusinesses of Zimbawbe and South Africa also provided thousands of jobs both for locals and for illegal migrants from other countries, primarily Mozambique. They kept food prices relatively low and absorbed huge numbers of peasants who would otherwise have headed to the already crowded cities.

The problems begin with the fact that in both countries, but particularly in Zimbabwe, the owners and managers of the agribusiness sector are white Africans, an ethnic minority. These businesses are also capitalist, giving Mugabe, a professed Marxist, the needed excuse to expropriate the farms under the auspices of "land reform."

Another and immediate issue is political unrest. After wielding absolute power for 22 years, the aging Stalinist knows that "his people" have discovered that Das Kapital does not feed them and Leninism has deprived them of freedom and jobs (one half of Zimbabweans are unemployed). Threatened by a newly coalesced and ably led opposition, Mugabe did what any Stalinist has to do: impose terror, first on the spirit, by destroying any remnants of press and university freedom, and then physically, by creating poverty and famine.

The small white minority, owners of some 30 percent of the agricultural land and the employers of tens of thousands of relatively well-off black laborers, were demonized as "colonialists" despite having been born in the country. Some, like former prime minister Ian Smith of then-Southern Rhodesia, were even stripped of their citizenship, although native born. (Mugabe, however, points to the fact that Smith is still alive as proof that he is a kind, non-vengeful person.) Others, even less fortunate, were murdered by thugs from Mugabe's ZANU-PF party, often in front of their families, sometimes in the most barbaric manner. White-owned farms were either confiscated by Mugabe's clique of government thieves or ruined by his corps of "war veterans" — i.e. self-proclaimed combatants of the pre-1980 civil war. The black employees of those farms lost everything: their jobs, security, and more often than not their lives. Having decimated the white population, Comrade Mugabe is now focusing his attention on the even smaller Asian community, mostly small traders and professionals. They are the newest "intruders" and "exploiters" the regime needs to inspire and legitimize its crimes.

After destroying his country's economy in the name of Marxism and overt racism, Mugabe's gang still had to deal with a stubborn opposition. It took another page from Uncle Joe's book. In the March elections it made sure that it counted the votes. Unsurprisingly, Comrade Mugabe's gang "won" — but even by their own count they got only 54 percent of the vote against the opposition Movement for Democratic Change's Morgan Tsvangirai. In a meeting with U.N. representatives, Mugabe dismissed U.S.-U.K. concerns about the validity of the March 9-11 elections (the U.S. barred him from traveling to the U.S. following the elections) by saying "To this day we still do not know who actually won the presidential election between Bush and Gore." He also told the mission that "We view the voice of the U.S. and Europe as the voice of the whites against blacks." In all events, Mugabe's government is proceeding with its prosecution of Tsvangirai for treason with highly questionable evidence.

Meanwhile, most of Zimbabwe's military has been busy looting what passes as the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) since war began in that country in 1998.

How does Mugabe manage to survive, even when many of his fellow Zimbabweans cannot? Exploitation of the Congo's diamonds, cobalt, and titanium is part of the answer; Qaddafi's supplies of cheap oil are another. But the ultimate answers lie in Pretoria, Brussels, and London, in that order.

Without South African trade, migrants, and access to oil supplies, Mugabe would have lasted an even shorter time than Smith. But South African president Thabo Mbeki has refused to apply any but the mildest political pressure on Mugabe, who helped Mbeki's own African National Congress to power in Pretoria. This has been a misguided policy, regardless of its motivations. Sooner or later, the 78-year-old Mugabe is going to go away, one way or another. Mass illegal Zimbabwean immigration across the Limpopo River is already creating unrest among Northern Transvaal black South Africans, who correctly perceive it as a threat to their own jobs and security. The inevitable chaos of a post-Mugabe Zimbabwe cannot be good for South Africa or the greater region, of which Pretoria is the natural leader. As for the Zimbabwean market for South African products, it is gone — and will remain so for a long time.

However, when Britain tried in January to have Zimbabwe expelled, or at least suspended, from the 54-member Commonwealth, South Africa, together with Nigeria and Botswana and with the support of leaders of the Southern African Development Community states, blocked this. Why? Because of a dubious notion of "solidarity" with a fellow third worlder. Mugabe's blatant racism met the more discrete racism of his colleagues in the Commonwealth. (In March, following the elections, Zimbabwe was finally suspended from the Commonwealth for a year.)

And where is the African-American community on this? There has been little to no comment from the Revs. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Louis Farrakhan. Rev. Jackson has distanced himself from the violence of his erstwhile friend's party, but hopes that funding to Zimbabwe will not be reduced. In a February 21 press release, he argued against sanctions, saying that "the international community should not punish innocent Zimbabweans because of policy differences with their government."

Tragically, there may be no other way to help Zimbabwe but to do just that. The G8 meeting on African development to be held in Canada this June will provide an opportunity to send a strong message. Western nations and NGOs can make an exception of Zimbabwe and suspend aid as long as Mugabe and his gang are in power, as countries such as Denmark and Norway have done. The funds could instead be spent helping the MDC and the majority eliminate his criminal regime, or reallocated to help countries like Mozambique, whose government has had the sense to offer land to Zimbabwean farmers fortunate enough to survive Mugabe's thugs.
Discuss.

Carver is offline Carver
Prince
reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 00:35
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Michael Radu's "essay" is a collection of unsubstantiated claims and mind-reading.
quote:
"What we hate is not the color of their skins but the evil that emanates from them."

The qoute is taken completely out of context. The race-baiting author seemingly wants us to think Mugabe views all whites as evil. Well the Ian Smith regime was evil. Apartheid South Africa was evil.
quote:
The black employees of those farms lost...more often than not their lives.

This statement means a majority of black farm workers have died. That is a bold faced lie.
quote:
"To this day we still do not know who actually won the presidential election between Bush and Gore."

Mugabe is right and, of course, very few of the whites in the west would care about the Zim election if it weren't for the fewer than 100,000 whites there.
quote:
Zimbabwe's military has been busy looting (the Congo)

The author is probably upset that Belguim and France have been cut out of the looting they enjoyed under the US and French supported Mobutu.

A rather poor troll by M Radu.

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 00:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai


Let's see, there are of cops armed with guns and the power to arrest people. How many people would be willing to stop them from beating up a suspect?
Thousands, if you pay attention.

quote:
Why is it that whenever a black man is assaulted by a white cop, people immediately start screaming "THIS ISN'T RACISM!!!"
Because it usually isn't.
Am I going to fast for you?

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuŕ Rénmín Gňnghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 01:00
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Until yesterday I thought the Rodney Kingthing would have been a classic... and it is, but for the other side...

maybe the US actually IS the greatest country in the world

*takes another draught*

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 03:38
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Your defense of dictatorial regimes is quite touching, Carver.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 03:47
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quote:
A rather poor troll by M Radu.


If it is a poor troll why don't you counter his assertions . Sorry, your Communist paradise leader Mugabe is a bad man, and an evil rascist. I know facts are hard for you to take sometimes .

Peacemaker is offline Peacemaker
Warlord
Go fat early.
Feb 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
What do you think about it?

What do you think should be done to that cop who went aggressive, and those others too who didn't stop it?


Give the cops the key to the city.

Throw a parade in their honor.

We need to make thse men heros. All the idiots in this country have no respect for authority and when one of them get their ass kicked for it we blame the police. Maybe they taught this little punk leason. I bet he doesn't try to attack the cops again.

The stupid little punk is still alive the cops should have just shot him and put him out of his misery.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
A rather poor troll by M Radu.


If it is a poor troll why don't you counter his assertions . Sorry, your Communist paradise leader Mugabe is a bad man, and an evil rascist. I know facts are hard for you to take sometimes .


It hurts agreeing with an evil capitalist pigdog such as yourself, but you´re right. Mugabe has long since ceased to be a part of the solution. He´s now the problem

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
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Nov 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 04:38 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Humans in general (of all races) seem to have this low capacity or low ability to learn from past mistakes.

Some police officers in Los Angeles still have not learned anything from the 1992 race riot in Los Angeles.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver

The qoute is taken completely out of context. The race-baiting author seemingly wants us to think Mugabe views all whites as evil. Well the Ian Smith regime was evil. Apartheid South Africa was evil.


While I don´t deny the good things Mugabe did as a freedom fighter these last few years he´s gone completely of the deep end. The man has become a paranoid racist bastard, much like Josef Stalin was.

Mugabe´s gotta go. A new government must be elected.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 05:06
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quote:
Mugabe has long since ceased to be a part of the solution. He´s now the problem


I think that is the main problem with Africa recently. Leaders, who seemed they could make a difference, being corrupted by power that they could wield absolutly, and then becoming the problem. Vicious circle.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 05:21
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Nicaragua is another fine example. The sandinistas really messed that one up Or Lech Walesa, as soon as he got into parliment he started getting delusions of grandeur...

Capt Dizle is offline Capt Dizle
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Sep 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 05:36
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Whenever there is a scuffle during an arrest there is a pretty good chance that after the suspect is subdued he is gonna get whacked a few times by an embarrassed cop. Garden variety cops are a lot like strutting roosters. There are hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of young American males that will become hostile and even violent if you simply look at them.

Haven't you heard this before? "What are you looking at?" When confronted like this you have to avert your eyes and find something non-confrontational to say or else you can get into a fight. I can guarantee that if you just go out on the street and just look at people, make eye contact and refuse to break it and refuse to say the proper things...you will get your ass whipped.

This is human behavior. Or maybe animal behavior like two dogs that meet with their tails stuck up in the air. Gonna be a fight unless one sticks his tail between his legs and drags his belly on the ground.

Cops are subject to behaving like this cause they are just people. Training reduces this type of thing but cops working in high stress, high crime areas like LA are going to break training more often than in rural America.

Yes, sometimes, racism is a factor in this. Almost all people have racial prejudices. But there are thousands of incidents like this every single day in America. Most of the time it's fueled by embarrassment and fear rather than sustained by a systemic predisposition. Given the gang history in LA and all of the reporting done on brutality in the LAPD I think is it reasonable to assume that a police culture of violence reaction existed at one time. I think the LA police department changed because of the King incident and changed for the good.

I have witnessed a few incidents like this. It's not unusual. It was just caught on tape. And what I have seen of the tape is pretty mild compared to the beating that Rodney King took. There is no evidence IMHO that there is some root evil to this. Boys will be boys.

Fire the cop and forget it.

By the way, in America there is little or no punishment for simple assault. You can go punch someone out with little thought to consequences (unless you are wealthy in which case - lawyers!).

Carver is offline Carver
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamrat X


While I don´t deny the good things Mugabe did as a freedom fighter these last few years he´s gone completely of the deep end. The man has become a paranoid racist bastard, much like Josef Stalin was.

Mugabe´s gotta go. A new government must be elected.


Agreed. Mugabe has not handled the land reforn program properly. The farms should have been marked for repossesion, the farmers given notice and then sent packing. But the process in Zim has been less orderly than would be ideal.

Carver is offline Carver
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If it is a poor troll why don't you counter his assertions

I believe I did. The rediculous assertions by Radu and some posters here that Mugabe is a racist are completely unsubstantiated. I am quite sure that many of the whites who call Mugabe a racist would not think of doing so if he were white and the evicted farmers black. Then he would just be "rectifying an historical injustice".

quote:

Sorry, your Communist paradise leader Mugabe is a bad man, and an evil rascist. I know facts are hard for you to take sometimes .

I seem to be one of the very few posters in this thread who knows anything of the facts. Its amazing (well not really) that so many people who never called apartheid South Africa "evil" call Mugabe evil at the drop of the hat. A few dead, precious white bodies and Mugabe is evil. While apartheid can kill hundreds of thousands (including the Pretoria organized civil wars in Mozambique and Angola) and the white government is just our "partner against communism" and we have to use "constructive engagement". Ronald Reagan called apartheid "our friend". That is a blatant double standard, it is disparate treatment of whites and blacks, it is another example of white racism.

Thank You.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
Question  Old Post 11-07-2002 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver
Its amazing (well not really) that so many people who never called apartheid South Africa "evil" call Mugabe evil at the drop of the hat.
You seem to take great pleasure in assuming that one is incapable of think that both regimes are evil and racist. Why is that?

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
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Jan 2001
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 06:14
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The trouble is, carver, you are basing your postion on a double standard, that it's alright to kill whites because of past grievences, yet evil to kill blacks via aparthied.

Either your for or against both, or your a hypocrit.

That's what they are trying to tell you.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 11-07-2002 06:19
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quote:
I believe I did. The rediculous assertions by Radu and some posters here that Mugabe is a racist are completely unsubstantiated. I am quite sure that many of the whites who call Mugabe a racist would not think of doing so if he were white and the evicted farmers black. Then he would just be "rectifying an historical injustice".


So this is how you argue? Put words into other people's mouths?

quote:
facts. Its amazing (well not really) that so many people who never called apartheid South Africa "evil" call Mugabe evil at the drop of the hat.


And how do you know me or Kamrat didn't call apartheid South Africa evil? Oh, just you putting words into people's mouths again. I see.

quote:
we have to use "constructive engagement". Ronald Reagan called apartheid "our friend".


You mean the same president who used the constructive engagment idea of economic sanctions? Same thing we have against Mugabe's racist state?

Hey, you can see what you want to see, but perhaps you should lay off the drugs and come to reality.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 07:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
Thousands, if you pay attention.

Because it usually isn't.
Am I going to fast for you?


Do you have any facts to back up your claim?

When was the last time a bunch of people stopped a cop from beating up a suspect?

A lot of people here are jumping to the conclusion that racism was not a factor, even though there are no facts yet to support that assertion. At the same time, there are no facts yet to support the assertion that race was a factor.

Carver is offline Carver
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 11-07-2002 07:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
The trouble is, carver, you are basing your postion on a double standard, that it's alright to kill whites because of past grievences, yet evil to kill blacks via aparthied.


No. Killing is wrong period. Mugabe should not be out to kill whites, and I have seen no evidence that he is. People here have seen reports of a few whites dying during a turbulent and tense political situation and are assuming that the deaths are organized genocide. No whites were lined up and shot by Mugabe's men. They died during chaotic situations during which many more blacks died . As I've said Mugabe has been wrong to let the land reform program become so chaotic. But loosing control of a situation is not synonomous with racial hatred.

Carver is offline Carver
Prince
reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 08:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And how do you know me or Kamrat didn't call apartheid South Africa evil? Oh, just you putting words into people's mouths again.

I never put one word into anyone's mouth. I don't know how you or many others here feel about apartheid. I said many people who attack Mugabe never scolded apartheid with the same energy.

quote:

You mean the same president who used the constructive engagment idea of economic sanctions? Same thing we have against Mugabe's racist state?

Reagan (and Big Bush) were vehemently opposed to economic sanctions on South Africa, they didn't even enforce the military sanctions wholeheartedly. Reagan vetoed the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986. Congress overrode his veto in what was on of the few veto overrides related to foreign policy in the 20th century (if not the only one).

Carver is offline Carver
Prince
reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 08:33
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Put an end to popups!

The guy who filmed the incident in CA is on BET Tonight With Ed Gordon right now.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-07-2002 11:40 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I was 11 years old when Mandela was freed from prison. I wrote an essay for my Grade 6 English class about it and my aunt held a party in commemoration of the event.

And Mugabe is still a complete tw@t.

 
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