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adaMada
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"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:24
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I'm glad to see that most of this has worked itself out.
Here's a message I just recieved from Panzer and my reply: (Message from Panzer at the end)
I'll send another message to Ghengis and Panzer, just trying to clarify the problem from our end and work towards a friendlier relationship. It's probably unnecessary, but the last message to/from Ghengis I've seen (posted here) asked for me to send him the quote from Panzer, and it'd be nice to have one final message, just to be sure nothing's still remaining.
-- adaMada
quote:
Panzer,
Indeed, you've fingered the problem (and I apologize for being out of contact for so long; it's been a busy two days in real life). Our team was (understandably) frustrated; to us, it seemed that you'd made another trade and were changing the deal again. Though this was allowed by our original deal (made back before we knew where either team was), it was frustrating for our team, having turned down several other deals considering the proximity of our warrior. I take a good deal of responsibility for the misunderstanding, considering that we did agree that the deal could change if either team aquired the techs from another team at the start of the game. We never discussed that clause again, and I should have come back and asked for a change when we started turning down other deals in anticipation of meeting you.
Either way, I'm glad to see that our teams are well on the way of putting this behind us. I'll send several other PMs to concerned parties tonight
-- adaMada
quote:
I looked over the situation, and think I understand some of what the problem is. Yesterday, I sent this PM to you:
quote:
It seems like our warriors are very close together now, but our previous tech deal is obselete; therefore I would like to get a new meeting deal together with you. It might be good to tell each other what we have, so we can see what can be traded - therefore... and so on
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Now I can understand your point of view and thus your reaction to this PM. I realise now that obselete was a strong word, and should not have used it, since the deal was not really obselete. The Glory of War only obtained one technology that was included in the deal. It sounded like we were cancelling the whole deal, including the nonagression deal. I was simply saying that we needed to adjust the deal again so it fit into both of our team's situations. Therefore I apologise for the severe wording of that PM.
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adaMada
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"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:24
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Aidun,
I have no intention of just sending him that message with no other comments. I just want to send a reply to Ghengis so it doesn't seem that I've (or our team has) ignored him. I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to send yet -- but I don't want Panzer removed from his ambassadorship. A friendly ambassador is far more useful than an unfriendly one, and I have no intention of seeing Panzer used as a scraping post. I want to send a general message saying what I think happened. I'll take a bit of responsibility upon myself without making it sound as though it was our fault as all, and write it off as a general miscommunication between both sides. We got what we wanted -- our next step is to ensure that there's some diplomatic relationship left for the future  . In that regard, having Panzer as our ambassador is far better than having him removed, and whatever I write will keep that primarially in mind . I won't include that quote except to explain what happened -- and if I think it'll cost Panzer his job, I won't include it at all. I think Togas has given it to him already, so I don't believe there's any more harm to be done .
(Assuming Togas doesn't object, of course ).
-- adaMada
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dejon
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adaMada - I don't think you have to worry about Panzer32 being replaced. GhengisFarb sent yet another email to Togas, Arnelos, and myself (amusingly, after Togas asking him to stop doing that). I won't reprint the email here, but basically said that Panzer was as confused as everyone else, not realizing that his poor wording created the firestorm. GF no longer sounds angry with Panzer. In fact, I think relations between the teams might be better than before, after surviving this "incident" without any damage done and cooler heads prevailing. Towards the email of the email GF had resumed talk about longer term tech trade possibilities, etc.
The crisis has passed, let it rest.
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adaMada
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"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by dejon
adaMada - I don't think you have to worry about Panzer32 being replaced. GhengisFarb sent yet another email to Togas, Arnelos, and myself (amusingly, after Togas asking him to stop doing that). I won't reprint the email here, but basically said that Panzer was as confused as everyone else, not realizing that his poor wording created the firestorm. GF no longer sounds angry with Panzer. In fact, I think relations between the teams might be better than before, after surviving this "incident" without any damage done and cooler heads prevailing. Towards the email of the email GF had resumed talk about longer term tech trade possibilities, etc.
The crisis has passed, let it rest. |
Oh, ok. As long as Ghengis has been in contact with someone from our team after that last message, I'm happy . I just wanted to make sure that the last message we'd exchanged with Ghengis wasn't the one about firing Panzer and asking for a reply from me. You're quite right -- if it's over, let it be over. My last PM to Panzer should be enough, and barring any reply to that, I'm happy to lay this issue at rest behind us.
Several posts ago, Panzer asked that we send him a complete list of the techs we have. Togas granted permission then, but I might as well ask again now, considering how much things have changed.
-- adaMada
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Thrumble
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I'm glad to hear this is all straightened out. I was crunching some data in the PTW editor this morning and checking the tech chart and have come to realize this tech research concept might be one of the most powerful ideas yet.
It practically obsoletes the Great Library with just us, Lux, and GoW each researching a different tech and trading it to one another we will be in the Medieval Age in just 4 tech researches.
The other civs will still be only marginally through the Ancient Age.
In around 5 techs the Great Library will have been made obsolete by Education. This makes it a very short-lived Wonder, and in my opinion not worth building if we think we can maintain the tech alliance for that period of time.
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dejon
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Why has no one spoken about the potential downsides to this 3 or 4 way tech trading?
In this arrangement, we (Commercial) and Lux (Scientific) will not see the full benefits of our traits because we will be pulling the others along with us.
Also, we will be aiding all our neighbours in getting to their unique units quickly, and simultaneously shortening the effective period of our own (Conquistador). Of the four civs, we are the only one with an Ancient age UU - we must use that to our advantage!
Lastly, it is extremely unfair to the Lost civs. They might be doomed to be overcome by more modern units, simply because of their more isolated start positions.
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dejon
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Oops, I must be on Banack or something. I knew it was Navigation, but thought it towards the end of the Ancient Ages for a dazed minute there instead of the late Middle Ages. Oh, but for the record, our neighbours UU are:
GoW (Chinese) - Rider(4.3.3) - Chivalry (Early Middle Ages)
Lux (Ottomans) - Sipahi(7.3.3) - Military Tradition (Late Middle Ages)
ND (Arabs) - Ansar(4.2.3) - Chivalry (Early Middle Ages)
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
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Tech alliance Pros:
We could multiply our tech research rate by 3 or 4 times and guarantee that we would be one of the few advanced civilizations on this planet. We can diminish the scientific advantage of Lux, and should we find the "lost civs" before our neighbors, we would have a vast array of knowledge to offer them for contacts, maps, etc.
We would always be the most advanced civ in specific areas, and if chose right, would be assured at the first crack at Wonders and new improvements, plus our tech would always have the best resale/trade value to civs outside of our alliance.
The more we cooperate, the better our relations with our neighbors, and the less likely that war will break out with one of them.
Furthermore, it is possible that the "Lost Civs" may do this sort of arrangement if they are in close contact. We may need to do it to remain competative, or it is possible that the northern three will agree to do this without us, but I think that is far less likely.
Tech alliance Cons:
Our role as the peaceful middleman who wheels and deals in knowledge would be limited. We would not have a edge over the others (who would likely compete to learn the same knowledge) in our trade deals.
We would be somewhat locked into a path of research that may not allow us to be flexible in times of emergency. We would rely on other nations for key knowledge.
--Togas
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Thrumble
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quote:
Originally posted by astrologix
There is another interesting thing from this list :
ND and GoW could be interested to launch a war against Lux or Roleplay in the Middle Age, in order to have their GA before and to reduce the effect of a later GA of Lux or us.
It would be in the interest of these two civs to ally against Lux and us. This is why, an early alliance with Lux could be good for us (Sorry if these considerations have been already discussed in another thread) |
I don't think a GoW/ND alliance is likely, in fact I would be far more expectant of the two going at it once they got their UU's.
In this case, I would see GoW getting their UU first if we do go through with this tech alliance and annexing ND before their UU is available to them.
The latter is in fact what I suspect GoW has had in plan from the beginning, and not necessarily a bad thing for us. While they are battling to annex the northern ND territory, which is apparently good defensive land we can annex and consolidate the entire southern chunk of the continent.
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dejon
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quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT
*Torquemada writes the first draft of a report for Lord Togas :
Your Supremity,
I am worried about the behaviour of dejon and Astrologix who are currently publicly debating about subjects of the highest strategic importance, clearly aiming to confuse the Spanish people. It seems that Astrologix is an accomplice, but the whole thing is signed dejon. Adding the vice to the crime, dejon recognized that he had absorbed prohibited materials before propagating those alarming wrong information. This attempt to destabilize the Empire will benefit to our Northern neighbours who certainly finance the whole thing.
On that subject of finance, I recall that I have already noticed that the dejon family is eating squids every day, which no reasonably wealthy family can afford, considering the scandalous price the Squid Baron dare charge.
Well, I will make some more observation before ending my report. * |
Señor Torquemada, I fear you have mistaken my words and intentions.
quote:
Originally posted by dejon
Oops, I must be on Banack or something. |
This statement does not infer that I actually imbibed prohibited substances, but rather, that I made such a foolish mistake, that some may suspect I had.
And my intention in bringing up these strategic topics in the Diplomacy thread was to ensure that our Lord Togas and our trusted ambassadors are acting on all available information and perceptions before guiding down a diplomatic path that we will be on for generations.
Finally, as you can read here, the Dejon family do not eat squid.
quote:
Originally posted by dejon, in The Marketplace thread
As for Squid - ick. I didn't get big and strong eating stuff like that. I eat my wife's cooking - and she won't cook what she didn't raise and kill herself. |
You must have seen someone else eating squid.
I do commend your diligence in Watching out for all of us though - Spain thanks you.
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jdjdjd
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of España
May 2002
time: 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Togas
jdjdjd -- Contact Lux and give them my great thanks for their offer to help us during our tense times with GoW. Let them know that we worked out a settlement with GoW and proceeded with our tech trade to them. Thank Lux for offering the backup deal to us. Let them know that we plan to trade them Alphabet + 25g for Iron Working, and tell him that you are working on the first draft of an alliance agreement right now.
--Togas |
So it is written, so it is done:
quote:
Trip, The Great and Honorable:
Togas, Supreme Leader of the Spanish, has given me the esteemed honor of thanking you for your willingness to assist The Spanish people during tense times with The People of Glory of War. A settlement was reached with Glory of War, and our trade with them was finalized. The Spanish People and The Great Togas do infinitely appreciate your back up offer, and are glad we have such a noble friend in the world.
The Great Togas would also like to confirm that it is España's intention to still trade The People of the Invincible Light the knowledge of the Alphabet and 25 gold in exhange for the knowledge of Iron Working.
Furthermore, the greate scribes of Spain are assisting me in the finalization of the Alliance Between the Great People of Lux Invicta and España. Once the document is complete, I will forward same on to you for your review.
I remain, your humble servant,
jdjdjd of España
Amabassador to Lux Invicta
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05-01-2003 05:01
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