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jdjdjd is offline jdjdjd
Prince
of España
May 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 02:25
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I am not sure - my guess is a simple over sight - because the rest of the PM makes it sound like its all four of us in on the deal.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 03:08
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Genghis is audacious; this proposal is an occasion to tell him kindly that war changes our political and diplomatic attitude much more than research, and that the state of war on our continent will very likely stop all tech trading. So we are willing to participate in any negociation involving research, but his war clause would preclude any agrement on our side.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 08-01-2003 03:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Aidun
Something strange: GoW is trading techs with Lux, but why aren't they mentioned in Ghenghis' message when he summarizes the teams and the techs they're researching?
It may have a reason: bad relations between Lux and GoW, the reason that Lux wanted to have a treaty with us.
Has Jdjdjd perhaps an idea?

Aidun Cian


IIRC Genghis said that he had receive bronze working for free from Lux. For free or in a peace treaty ? or an extortion ?

Aidun is offline Aidun
King
The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 04:16
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I don't think Lux will easily be extorted: they have made a 'forced agreement' with ND about the distribution of the terrain. That doesn't solve the question of bronzeworking. Perhaps Jdjdjd could ask Lux about it in a friendly way.

Aidun Cian

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 05:30
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This is a good idea ... jdjdjd, if you could, tell Lux that GoW claims that they gave them bronze working as a gift. Ask them if this is true and, perhaps, joke a bit about if they'd like to be as generous with their good friends the Spaniards.

However, what we're after is the actual story is behind the Bronze exchange.

--Togas

Thud is offline Thud
Prince
Proud to be an American
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 08-01-2003 05:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Togas
Not a bad idea at all, Arnelos...

Thud, could you try to arrange for Legoland to contact ND about the messages they've been receiving from GoW about ND. Explain to them that GoW has also been saying these things about us to ND, and that we are trying to show ND the truth about who is scheming against whom.

If there are any confidentiality issues, they can either paraphrase the letter, or ask ND to NOT tell GoW that they sent it.

--Togas

It shall be done my lord. I will report soon.

ruby_maser is offline ruby_maser
King
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 08-01-2003 06:00
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With all the intrigue, MPPs, and alliances we alone have formed, whether casually or other, I wonder how many all six opposing teams have formed with their inter-personal relations.

It will prove fateful if the game erupts into world war on the basis of these pacts.

As to Genghis' suggest: I agree with Señor DAVOUT that anything about war not changing the pact be removed or we don't sign on. This provision is obviously a loophole that will allow them to enter into protracted wars while keeping their research limited and still prevent falling behind by collecting from the gullable (if albeit more honorable) teams that will contribute to their tech list... if only until they discover there is no reciprocity.

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 06:31
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That Ghengis Farb Khan is one very silver tougned Devil. He speaks of Discord with one communication, and the next, he speaks of cooperation. But all the while, he seeks to make it to where he is the master of this Continent and not that this Continent is shared by more than one.

Be very Wary of him, My Lord

Letus Eta Tamali

jdjdjd is offline jdjdjd
Prince
of España
May 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Togas
This is a good idea ... jdjdjd, if you could, tell Lux that GoW claims that they gave them bronze working as a gift. Ask them if this is true and, perhaps, joke a bit about if they'd like to be as generous with their good friends the Spaniards.

However, what we're after is the actual story is behind the Bronze exchange.

--Togas


I will do this as soon as I know his PM box is cleared.

I have tried to send The Alliance Treaty twice so far with no luck.

History Guy is offline History Guy
King
Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 06:41
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I have heard that Genghis Farb Khan also pretends bravery by walking in the open wearing no armor (though surrounded by guards) and wears a thin toga only, so as to show that he is not afraid of assassins, though underneath the toga he wears a dwarven coat of mail, against which all knives would bend, and thus he is dishonorable. I do not think that in war he would be any more honorable, nor in diplomacy, as he has shown. He is not at all to be trusted, and I think that his title 'Hammerhand' is the wrong one. Perhaps he should be Genghis Farb Khan Glibtongue instead.

I think that Lux Invicta has no less the dreams of martial domination than the Warmongers themselves, but I think that they are hoping to achieve it in the future, by one day taming the horse to fight along with them in armor as a Sipahi, or so the seer says. They say that they have no clear plans for victory, but I think they do, relying upon the power they know they will have with Military Tradition.

I stand by for further orders as to what to write to Neu Demogyptica.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador to the Arabs

dejon is offline dejon
King

Sep 2002
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  Old Post 08-01-2003 06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by History Guy
... a dwarven coat of mail


What's dwarven?

quote:
[/SIZE]
Perhaps he should be Genghis Farb Khan Glibtongue instead.


How about Wormtongue?

Thud is offline Thud
Prince
Proud to be an American
Jul 2002
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Alright here is the message I intend to send Nimitz tonight, provided there are no objections:

quote:
The government of Spain and its illustrious leader, Togas, would like to make a request of you. But first, some background on the state of affairs, that you may or may not be aware of at this point, leading to our request:

quote:
GhengisFarb of China claimed that you have proposed to forge a trio alliance against us, the nation of Neu Demogyptica. They told us you would think ND has to be weakened as we are the leaders in technology. Furthermore, he claimed that the Chinese rejected this proposal!


Sincerly yours,
Picahulu, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica


Of course, this is simply a blatant and insulting lie told by Ghengis Farb. Our government has denied these allegations with great vigour; however, current delicate negociations with ND seem to be stalled due to this situation.

Because of our alliance and the general goodwill between our nations, it has come to our attention that you have been approached by GoW, attempting to villify ND.

It is thus the request of our government that you inform ND about the nature of GoWs strategy of villification and slander of peace-loving nations. If possible, this would be accomplished by the fowarding your messages to ND, of course, you may wish to simply paraphrase these and give ND the general meaning that GoW is not to be trusted.

In all sincerity and friendship,

Thud- Ambassador for Togas, Sumpreme Leader of Spain



EDIT: Note that this message was sent at 9:53 EST, all Spelling mistakes stand corrected.

Last edited by Thud on 08-01-2003 at 07:48

jdjdjd is offline jdjdjd
Prince
of España
May 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 20:21
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Trip's PM box is still full.

If anyone sees him in a chat, could you mention I have vital correspondence for him?

I would also suggest, that as Trip likes to deal with Our Supreme Leader as opposed to an underling, maybe Togas the Great can forward a PM or copy if the Alliance Treaty to Trip, and perhaps he will get a PM box clearing.

Because of the above, I have not sent the second Pm as requested above re: the gift from GoW.

Thrumble is offline Thrumble
Prince

Nov 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 20:22 Visit Thrumble's homepage!
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All of this political Roleplay and Conspiracy discussion and plotting is fun but we should be careful not to over analyze and misread correspondence and end up cutting our own throat.


From the Diary of Lord Gonsolo of Thrumble
I had a dream last night in which I was in this large metal bird flying through the air and was thinking about some of the issues we have been seeing recently and it hit me these may not be as wild as we have been thinking.

Suppose the alert from ND is a slight exaggeration of what GoW sent them? After the misunderstanding with them our Glorious Leader was dropping comments about working with Lux and Trip in the chat room (is this something of a pub?) while a GoW member was present. Suppose this caused the Gow to seek a potential back up alliance with ND to hold what they perceived to be our alliance with Lux in check? I'm sure Genghis would have worded it to make it sound as dire as possible and scare ND into agreeing to it.

Also, of all the teams so far, Lux appears to be the least trustworthy, and most opportunistic. Yet this least trustworthy team is the one we seem to be rushing to embrace. I have seen nothing of cooperation proposed by Lux or ND, but I have seen overtures of peaceful and constructive cooperation proposed by us and GoW.

If GoW and us are the two teams most willing to work with others it would be in both Lux and ND's best interests to keep us antagonized at each other as they would always be able to reap the benefits from the two of us individually and set themselves up as the middlemen between us and GoW.

I am not saying that GoW isn't plotting against us. They are Warmongers and they will most certainly fight someone. However, we should work at making ourselves too valuable to them to be destroyed and not the obvious target of their forces.

If we start building a plan to take out one of the teams now, they will get the idea. It would be very difficult to plan a assault among three civs without slipping a hint here and there of what we are up to. If GoW gets the idea that we are coming after them they will drop everything and wage war out of self survival.

They are also the only civ currently researching Horseback Riding giving them a fast and versitile troop. I don't relish the idea of fighting hordes of Horsemen with spearmen and swordsmen.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

-Thrumble the Quiet

Aidun is offline Aidun
King
The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 21:18
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While reading your comments on the current foreign policy I got the idea of signing alliances with all of the three nations on this continent. By that way we can avoid being triggered into a war.

When somebody asks us to aid in an offensive war as well as a defensive war, we could alway's give the reason that we are allied with the nation that attacks our ally or is being attacked by our ally mand we wish not to violate agreements.

By this construction we can have our own foreign policy that doesn't depend on the policy of others.

If we wish to declare war we have to wait until our treaty expires and simply say that we don't want to extend it.

If a worthy ally is being attacked by another ally of us, we can PM the offending nation that we are "seriously displeased" and want them to stop the war or we would cancel the alliance immediately (before it expires). If they don't stop the war, we can always declare war after we have cancelled the treaty.

We can eventually let the others know that canceling the alliance before it expires is no treachery but the result of an ultimatum that is being denied and so remain fair to the others.

PLEASE some comments on this from the señores ambassadors and of our honoured despot Togas.

Aidun Cian the Older

ruby_maser is offline ruby_maser
King
Fear sunshine!
Sep 2002
time: 23:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 22:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Aidun
When somebody asks us to aid in an offensive war as well as a defensive war, we could alway's give the reason that we are allied with the nation that attacks our ally or is being attacked by our ally mand we wish not to violate agreements.


Kinda puts us in a bad light to acknowledge we have signed alliances with everyone on the continent, don't you think?

Our credibility would be shot with that team for sure, and since sharing correspondence from other teams now seems to be flying high ( I'm not sure if I agree with that, btw), our credibility would probably be shot with everyone.

I thought we were trying to be devious or sneaky only in situation where it couldn't be pinned on us later. I hope that everyone keeps the long run in mind.

The spirit of giving in and being chummy and having secret alliances with all these nations is gonna lead to world war IMO. Remember WW1? That would be an interesting irony to have RL mimicked in the PtW Democracy Game

OliverFA is offline OliverFA
King
Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:24
  Old Post 08-01-2003 23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by dejon
Ah, intrique! Perhaps this is precisely the reaction ND is hoping for!

Have you considered the possibility that ND is feeding us a story here, designed to re-ignite the embers of the recent RP-GoW trist? By now they will have realized that: A) they are boxed in by jungle, Lux, and GoW; B) as the only non-Apolyton team, they may not be spared any mercy; and C) their early expansionist lead will make them a target.


Do you mean that a man can say things he know are not true in purpose? But how can it be posible? These foreigners are more difficult to understand day after day!

Maybe we should ask for some positive confirmation of what they tell to us from now on, and don't just belive what they say.

Aidun is offline Aidun
King
The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
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  Old Post 09-01-2003 00:41
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Señor El Ruby_maser, there will come no WWI: one of the origins of WWI were the alliances, thats true, but you forget that my plan provides also cross-alliances: in my plan there are no rival blocks, because we are the peaceful connection beween rival blocks. If nations of the rival blocks want to engage in war with each other, they have to get an ageement with us, or we'll have the power to force them sooner or later to stop the war. This is a very powerful position.
I agree with those who reply that it is also a position that is not without danger: the other nations could become envious to our position and sign treatments with the other nations to destroy us, but it is still a powerful position. It was the kind of role that the US had taken upon them in the Israel-conflict during Clintons presidency.
Know that we will be known and famous in the whole world for our peaceful attitude, that is something to be proud of, isn't it?
Like the US we will need a good military before we can realy use the power of forcing nations to make peace, but the basis is in having alliances with all other nations.

Aidun Cian the Older

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
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Glad to see that my idea is being followed up on...

Thud, perhaps your message is a bit too explicit, but it might still work (if Legoland appreciates the sincerity).

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 09-01-2003 03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnelos
Glad to see that my idea is being followed up on...



Another Arnelos copyright ?

Crousto is offline Crousto
Prince
Brussels, Belgium
Aug 1999
time: 06:24
  Old Post 09-01-2003 03:27
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I'm pretty sure GF lied about the bronze gift. Check my tech race table, when looking at the different way Lux & GoW could have acquired some techs, it seems obvious that they made a tech deal (bronze & pottery for wheel & warrior code).

History Guy is offline History Guy
King
Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:24
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In response to Senor Dejon, Grand Marshall, and Chancellor of the Left:

Dwarven, sir, as made by dwarves. The dwarves, as you know, are the most industrious of all the creatures that inhabit the earth, which is a place full of wonderous and mysterious animals as it is. Though rarely seen these days, some claim to have dealings with isolated dwarven miners, who mine the coats of mail known as methril, an almost unbreakable materiel, worth a king's ransom. Indeed, our ballads of old tell of our ancient king Togas, the smiter of Alaric, the slayer of Visigoths, flattener of Vandals, as having removed one from the corpse of Alaric after Santiago, for it was the head and not the body that he was wise enough to strike out at. This coat is now in the Royal Palace Armory, to be worn by the king in battle, though since Santiago it has not been needed.

As for the name Wormtongue, perhaps it would be best. For after all, a snake is very much like a worm, and indeed there is no difference, for they both crawl upon the earth and eat dust.

I await further orders on what to write to Neu Demogyptica.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron
Ambassador to the Arabs

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 09-01-2003 04:55
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jdjdjd, I just asked trip to empty his PM box, so you should be o.k. to send him stuff for now.

E_T

adaMada is offline adaMada
King
"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:24
  Old Post 09-01-2003 05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Crousto
I'm pretty sure GF lied about the bronze gift. Check my tech race table, when looking at the different way Lux & GoW could have acquired some techs, it seems obvious that they made a tech deal (bronze & pottery for wheel & warrior code).


Actually, if you review all the communication, you'll find that Panzer himself told us that they aquired Bronze Working in a trade. Guess they should've talked about their lies a bit mroe before going into them . Havnig said that, I don't see it as a major thing -- exactly the sorta thing we'd do (which is sorta scary), but not really bad .

-- adaMada

Thud is offline Thud
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Proud to be an American
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 09-01-2003 05:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnelos
Glad to see that my idea is being followed up on...

Thud, perhaps your message is a bit too explicit, but it might still work (if Legoland appreciates the sincerity).


Yes, it is quite frank, isn't it? If it was anyone other than Legoland, I would've been much more vague, and more like, "we beleive it will be in your best interests", but as it is, I think we can trust them to be faithful. Particularly since they probably won't find us, GoW, or ND until after all this is forgotten.

I also want them to open up, and have a free flow of information with us. If I have to start that process off I will.

Last edited by Thud on 09-01-2003 at 05:59

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
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Sep 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Thud


Yes, it is quite frank, isn't it? If it was anyone other than Legoland, I would've been much more vague, and more like, "we beleive it will be in your best interests", but as it is, I think we can trust them to be faithful. Particularly since they probably won't find us, GoW, or ND until after all this is forgotten.

I also want them to open up, and have a free flow of information with us. If I have to start that process off I will.


Fair enough. I think it's too frank, but I'm willing to agree that Nimitz and folk are a trustworthy bunch and the trust issue needs to be built somehow. Perhaps, without being obnoxious about it, we can point out that we are indeed being very open and honest with giving them this much information about our reasons behind the request... Not being obnoxious about that will take some tinkering with the language, but it can be done.

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
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quote:
Originally posted by adaMada


Actually, if you review all the communication, you'll find that Panzer himself told us that they aquired Bronze Working in a trade. Guess they should've talked about their lies a bit mroe before going into them . Havnig said that, I don't see it as a major thing -- exactly the sorta thing we'd do (which is sorta scary), but not really bad .

-- adaMada


Yes, it does seem as though GoW's diplomacy is a bit muddled by a lack of internal communication. The whole debacle over the techdeal we (RP) had scheduled with them is a good example even beyond this obvious mix-up of which lies to tell to which team. While I had previously wanted to suggest to GhengisFarb that he get his house in order, now I'm tempted to say that we let them remain disorganized. Yeah, it means that we can't take anything seriously unless it comes from GhengisFarb himself, but it also means we might be able to mine Panzer or others for information that GhengisFarb might not want us to know about.

We'll take advantage of what we can.

jdjdjd is offline jdjdjd
Prince
of España
May 2002
time: 00:24
  Old Post 09-01-2003 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
jdjdjd, I just asked trip to empty his PM box, so you should be o.k. to send him stuff for now.

E_T


Thank you Señor Tamale - the Alliance Treaty has been sent.

Also I sent this to Trip as per Togas -

quote:

Trip,

Togas and I were discussing some things about the two demo games, and he told me of a report from Glory of War, that they had given you Bronze Working as a gift. If only we had such nice friends - . We were kind of curious if it was true and how'd you get them to do it. We swear on our squid supply, that we will not divulge your secret to any non-Spaniards.

Thanks and let me know if the Treaty is acceptable. Please forward the Treaty to Togas and myself with your OK, if it is OK.

jdjdjd

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 09-01-2003 07:20
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jdjdjd!

No no, Ghengis told us that Lux gave GoW Bronze Working, not the other way around.

Anyhow, not a big deal, Trip should clarify it. But if you get a chance, see if you can't clear it up first.

--Togas

jdjdjd is offline jdjdjd
Prince
of España
May 2002
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Ay Carumba -

Fortunately Trip responded giving us the info we wanted, i.e. they traded it to GoW.

Here's the response from Trip:

quote:

I've put up the treaty for my team to judge. I should have an official response for you within a day or so.

As far as GoW giving us Bronze Working as a gift, that's completely and entirely incorrect. We actually traded it to them not too long ago (we start with Bronze Working you know).


I wrote back saying I made a mistake and meant it the other way around and that we await his reply re: the Alliance.

 
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