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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:24
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jdjdjd,
As much as I've been one to say that we shouldn't believe anything GhengisFarb tells us, I honestly don't believe he's lying to us in this case. First, he has no interest in doing so. Second, he DOES have an interest in not lying to us about something so minor. Third, we're pretty sure that GoW must have contacted someone and we're pretty sure that Neu Demogyptica already contacted Lux Invicta. My guess is that Neu Demogyptica is in the unlucky position of being in the middle of the entire continent... surrounded by GoW to the northwest, Lux Invicta somewhere to the northeast or southwest, Legoland to the west, us to the southeast, and Vox Controli somewhere off to the northeast. Only the Gathering Storm team has an entirely unknown location.
My guess is that GoW would just love it if we helped them gang up on Neu Demogyptica. Only problem is whether we actually want to do that... my thinking is no, but it's WAAAAY too early to see clearly if that's a good idea yet.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:24
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If ND and GoW are going to war we should team up with any of the sides (presumably GoW because it would be easir to attack ND) otherwise the winner will have a dangerous edge.
The alternative would be to get something from ND in pay for not attacking their back lines while fighting GoW.
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:24
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DAVOUT,
I agree with your reasoning except that I think the gang-up on non-'poly charge can be avoided by pointing out the more obvious power dynamics of our situation (which you pointed out for why we'd side with GoW if ND attacked them). If ND attacks GoW, that means they've hopefully left their rear exposed to an easy attack from us. ANYONE, whether from 'poly or not, would be tempted to take advantage of that.
That's the reason why I think ND will be far more peaceful than might have otherwise been the case. Because it seems they have the bad luck to be in the middle, it would be unwise for them to go barrelling after one of their many neighbors, only to be invaded by all of the other ones. It gives them something of a diplomatic advantage, however, if they use their vulnerability to gain allies of convenience... for instance, Lux Invicta (which we believe to be in contact with ND) may want to protect ND if GoW attacks them, as we might as well. If ND is SMART, they'll prey on our fears of a powerful Glory of War to induce us and others to support them if they are ever in danger of being conquered by GoW.
So, in large part, which side in any ND-GoW conflict we side on will depend on the situation. Ultimately, our goal should be similar to England's in the continental wars of Europe... enter only to maintain the balance of power and ensure that our many opponents remain weak and divded rather than conquering each other and creating a more dangerous rival.
If one or another power HAS to be taken down, always attempt to help take down the power which we believe to be the greater threat to long-term stability (GoW, for instance).
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by History Guy
A letter from the Arabian diplomat Picahulu:
Dear History Guy of Spain,
Thank you for your letter. The arabian World greets the proud merchant people of Spain in friendship and looks forward to build up a successful relationship which will be beneficial to both of our civilizations.
The overwhelming majority of Neu Demogyptica has decided to accept your offer and would like to trade Minimaps with the Roleplay team! Please give me your E-Mail Adress and i'll send our current Map to you as fast as possible. My E-Mail Adress is joshija@gmx.net .
We are also interested in the Alphabet and would like to offer Masonry in exchange. Please let me know whether you consider this to be a good deal. As soon as your civilization has researched another technology we would be grateful if you inform us in order to negotiate a deal.
Dear History Guy, i am pleased to tell you that we have sent one of our Scouts - he is called Arne - through the jungle which seems to divide our nations. We are located just north of the jungle and expect Arne to reach the borders of Spain in about five rounds!
We are looking forward to hear from you again and to start trading with your merchants soon!
Yours sincerly,
Picahulu, Chief Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica
---
I see that the trade has already been made. This is very good news indeed, as I think I can make them our allies, and if Glory of War goes on the rampage they will certainly have closer targets with Vox Controli or Neu Demogyptica.
Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron |
We probably don't need their mini-map anymore... I actually trust GhengisFarb to be telling us the truth on the location of ND. That said, I see little harm in ND knowing our location and it might be good for bi-lateral relations with the central power for us to share our mini-map with them. However, since we already know where they are and believe we might contact them ANYWAYS in another turn, it might be best to wait that turn and use the leverage of us already knowing their position to perhaps get another tech out of them (like Pottery?) in exchange for the mini-map if we can. If not, no big deal.
As for Masonry, we need it badly. City walls should be, I have argued, a MAJOR component of our early game military defense against rushes. They are VERY CHEAP and extremely valuable. 'nuff said.
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History Guy
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Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:24
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Senor Crousto, I see. I know not how they knew our location, but I must suppose it only comes from a mysterious individual from the north who calls himself Genghis Farb.
Senor Togas, O Great Despot, Magnanimous and Beneficent Ruler, I must say that I feel that we should demand as much as we can (within reason) for Alphabet, if we wish to trade it at all for this early stage. I should like to think of a perfect situation when we have contact with all three civilizations and can make our trades with them then for whatever we ask. Of course, we may not wish to wait too very long.
My mistake, I believe it was Lux Invicta they met, according to the reports (though it could just as easily have been Vox Controli).
I thank you for making the exchange yourself, sir.
Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat
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adaMada
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"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:24
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The fact that GoW has an abundant supply of Gems (assuming they're not lying) is rather good, as long as we're trading with them anyway.
On Masonry -- we are only a few more turns away from meeting with GoW (compared to meeting with Neu Dem), should we so desire. Might I suggest we simply wait and get it from them? We'll be able to resell Warrior Code for a much better deal, and we've already signed an agreement with them in this regard. On the other hand, there is the significant issue of if we want to strengthen GoW rather than Neu Dem -- if we plan to go to war against GoW with Neu Dem's help (a war that would have the advantage of Neu Dem serving as a buffer between us and GoW), it would not be wise to give GoW a diplomatic leg up now (even if we come off slightly better from the deal).
I agree that Ghengis is probably not lying about the location of Neu Dem. Even if the merc. deal is just a ruse, they would not want to give it away for so little without gain for themselve -- for if they betray us, we will unmask them to the world as a fraud (as they should know).
quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT
If ND is as we think, they will try to eliminate their greatest treat early, leaving us for later.
But we dont want them to eliminate GW too soon; so, we could tell Ghengis that in case they would be attacked by ND, we would take their side, which is probably true BTW. Our diplomates should be able to get something for that.
The only drawback would be that we get a reputation that the Apolyton teams gang up against foreign teams, which is not good for the game, and for our training. |
Without commenting on the idea -- we clearly need to (as a nation) make some broad policy on our relations with others, especially GoW -- I can say that I feel it would be very possible, if not easy, to aquire such an agreement. It seems that Ghengis is for it, and I don't anticipate having much trouble pushing it through Panzer if that's what we want to do.
quote:
Originally posted by History Guy
Well, me thinks that you are mistaken in only some areas. If we are the closest to the Chinese, we will be the target of their aggression. I do not think they would honor their word if they wanted to expand. Would it not be a fine tactic to lure us into a false sense of security, and then to break treaty and strike? Realistically, we must remember that they are warmongers. I do not believe that they would be mercenaries unless to do out there and conquer other nations and grow strong enough to be able to destroy rightful Spanish order and replace it with their own madness. And besides, how can we be sure that if they are mercenaries they won't be hired out to fight us?
Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat |
I do not have trouble believeing that they are mercs because (were I a warmongering nation) I would be a merc. myself -- seems like a fun way to play  .
If they are mercs, then we can avoid becoming their targets through agreements and diplomacy. As I've said above, if they are mercs, they won't dare attack us if we have a treaty prohibiting it. If we have a treaty, they won't sign an agreement that would cause them to break it. Obviously, it will be very hard to have a continous non-agression pact, but if we can convince them it is important (perhaps even crucial) to their own interests, I doubt they'll attack us anyway -- even if theyh do honor their agreements, they will not be under obligation to accept every assignment to cross their desks. This could be a good case for waiting to get Masonry from them -- if we want to establish such a relationship, then we should begin so early. The obvious downside is that GoW may see us as a vassal rather than an ally -- a situation that would be equally dangerous to us. In general, however, I believe we can strike a common ground, benefitial to both sides. Yes, it is a little bit like playing with matches -- if we fail, the stakes are very high -- but success could bring riches far beyond what's available by playing it safe, and we can always take precautions.
-- adaMada
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:24
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Like Señor Tamali, I also see an alliance between Lux and ND. Also the messages that Genghis has sent to our great lord Togas might show that GoW is a bit nervous because they see themselves cornered against this Lux/ND alliance.
Let's REX as long as we can, but we should maintain an eye on those three and at the same time try to discover where the other two are. Probably the best for us would be that they were on the other continent with Legoland.
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26-12-2002 15:17
I was under the impression that we had already located Vox to our north.
)
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