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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:25
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New PM from Betahound of Vox:
quote:
Hi Togas - sorry about that. I justr got home from work and am off to bed soon.
It looks like this. GS has declined all our offers - which we felt were quite reasonable. They want the whole continent and us off it. I can explain more in the chat.
We have significant forces still- and we have ceased hostilities. I will find out when the save rolls around if they have. BTW - did you notice if they landed any troops on North Estonia?
So - what we will be proposing a small show of force. We would like you and GOW to land your troops on North Estonia where they would be visible. And both of you and Lego make it clear to GS that we should stay in North Estonia. It would be a gloomy day for all of us if GS gets the entire continent.
So - leave your galley where it is for now - or even move it a bit further north - or better yet - land your horsemen on a coastal tile somewhere NW of Elipolis where they would be visible to GS.
As to iron - we can discuss. Yes we would like it - but please do not pressure Lego into any deal for it. I'm sure we can reach agreement with you for it - say Engineering and cash. Lego has been very supportive of our efforts to date. Jsut so you knwo.
Anyways - sorry again for the confusion - RL and all.
Hope to see you tomorrow night. Thanks for staying in touch.
Regards - Beta
quote:
Togas wrote on 12-06-2003 00:09:
Beta,
PLEASE tell me what is going on, we are very confused as to what we should be doing, if anything, and if we should continue moving our ships to Estonia ... and if we should offer Iron.
As you may know, Legoland offered to pay for the iron, and we were about to agree, but Nimitz recently told us that the war was off, and that you had worked out a peace agreement.... ???
NYE said that you are still at war, and the FAM matrix shows the same thing. We are observing a battle around Inchon that looks very interesting.
I will remain in chat for the next few hours. I am ALMOST DONE with the RP save and will only hold it an hour tops.
Please give us information. We can chat tomorrow but I'd like to help tonight if I can. |
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We already moved south and saw the GS forces. I feel it would be unfair for us to change our moves now to move back north.  But we need to talk to Vox, and I will PM him back to get a chat going tomorrow.
This whole thing isn't over, but it's close, and it's time for us to revisit our role in this whole thing. I'm not sending troops AND Iron to Vox for Engineering + gold. They need the gold. We need techs, and I don't even know if they'll ever get Engineering. We'll send Iron INSTEAD of troops, but we need more than just Engineering to do that.
--Togas
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Chat with GS on #PTWTalks Sandwich Part 1 of 2
quote:
[12:04] Shiber- Hello RP
[12:04] Shiber- OPD should be here
[12:04] Shiber- Any minute now, actually
[12:05] * OPD2 has joined #PTWTalks
[12:05] OPD2- lo
[12:06] OPD2- good day to all in RP
[12:06] Shiber- Hi OPD
[12:06] OPD2- hey hey
[12:07] OPD2- BTW shib how long has my IRC leaving message been Fyou
[12:07] Shiber- I don't understand the question
[12:08] BigFree- hey
[12:08] * BigFree sets mode: +oo OPD2 Shiber
[12:08] OPD2- when I quit irc it comes up with a message saying Fyou
[12:08] OPD2- hey BF
[12:08] BigFree- LOL
[12:08] * OPD2 has quit IRC (**** you)
[12:08] OPD2- or something like that
[12:09] OPD2- whats new BF
[12:09] Shiber- Your previous quit message (with the OPD nick) was just "Leaving"
[12:09] BigFree- nada
[12:09] OPD2- oh that ok then
[12:09] BigFree- I still laugh at the ****you message
[12:10] Shiber- Oh, btw
[12:10] OPD2- ya
[12:10] Shiber- Togas, if you're here, I watched the first episode of TRIGUN today
[12:10] Shiber- 
[12:11] OPD2- if togas is here I'd like to probe him for information regarding the spdg map
[12:11] BigFree- what the heck is that?
[12:11] Shiber- An anime
[12:11] Shiber- Togas's avatar is of the main character
[12:12] BigFree- ah
[12:13] Shiber- oh.
[12:13] Shiber- ooh...
[12:13] OPD2- lol
[12:13] BigFree- hehe
[12:13] BigFree- So, hows the war going?
[12:13] Shiber- I think it's going very well
[12:13] BigFree- Vox yelling "Mercy!" yet?
[12:13] Shiber- We've outmaneuvered the Voxians, thanks to our Lighthouse
[12:14] BigFree- 
[12:14] OPD2- It's only a matter of time
[12:14] OPD2- I think vox have realized that
[12:14] BigFree- The Light House is good for a few things sometimes
[12:14] Shiber- Are we waiting for Togas or can we begin the chat?
[12:16] BigFree- Togas will be back in about 30 minutes
[12:16] BigFree- if you cannot wait, we can start
[12:16] Shiber- Alright, I'll be waiting
[12:17] * OPD2 is now known as opdaway
[12:21] Shiber- Sandwich. :drool:
[12:23] BigFree-
[12:26] Shiber- I have to go for a short while
[12:27] Shiber- I'll be back as soon as possible
[12:27] * Shiber has quit IRC (Quit: Shiber has no reason)
[12:38] * opdaway has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[12:51] * Shiber has joined #ptwtalks
[12:51] Shiber- I'm back
[12:51] Shiber- Where did OPD go?
[12:51] BigFree- he pinged out
[13:07] * BigFree is now known as [GOD]BigFree
[13:07] * [GOD]BigFree is now known as [DOG]BigFree
[13:16] * [DOG]BigFree is now known as BigFree
[13:29] Shiber- This chat is a complete failure, and we haven't even started yet!
[13:29] Shiber- lol
[13:29] BigFree- 12:4P1
[13:30] * BigFree sets mode: +o Shiber
[13:34] * opd has joined #PTWTalks
[13:34] opd- lo
[13:34] opd- sorry
[13:34] BigFree- np
[13:34] opd- connection screwed up
[13:34] BigFree- 12:4)1
[13:34] * BigFree sets mode: +o opd
[13:34] opd- hope you didn't wait for me
[13:34] BigFree- Togas is still not back 12:4(1
[13:35] opd- lol ok
[13:35] opd- wanna give him 5 more mins?
[13:36] * opd is now known as opdaway
[13:38] * TogasAWAY is now known as Togas
[13:38] Shiber- Welcome back!
[13:38] Togas- hello
[13:38] Togas- what have I missed?
[13:38] BigFree- nad, we wait for you of course
[13:39] Shiber- Well, I was recalling Donnie Darko.
[13:39] Shiber- I dunno about the others. 
[13:39] Shiber- Something came up (RL), I'll be away for the next 5-10 minutes. Sorry.
[13:39] * Togas is reading back through the log...
[13:40] * Shiber is now known as Shiber[BRB-10mins]
[13:40] Togas- that's fine, will give me a chance to catchup
[13:44] * opdaway is now known as opd
[13:44] opd- lo togas
[13:45] Togas- hello.
[13:45] Togas- Do you guys officially rep GS or are you sort of just informal ambassadors?
[13:46] opd- As of today I think I'm the ambassador to RP
[13:46] BigFree- woot
[13:46] BigFree- congrats
[13:46] Togas- cool
[13:47] opd- DeepO posted something along those lines
[13:47] Togas- I'm not sure if ET or BigFree has asked in the past about a WM swap. That might be a bit extreme for security reasons.
[13:47] opd- Shibers here to make sure I don't give away GS secrets
[13:48] BigFree- LOL
[13:48] BigFree- the enforcer
[13:48] Togas- We have a single galley in the area. We're planning to send her out to find uncharted lands.
[13:48] opd- GS are highly unlikely to ever give away terriroy map
[13:48] opd- yeah we noticed
[13:48] Togas- we'd like to "find" your coastal cities so that we can get a traderoute set up
[13:49] opd- I'm not sure but I think we can trade as we can see your coastal cities
[13:49] opd- good news on the harbour front
[13:49] opd- probably about 4 turns
[13:50] Togas- not bad at all. We were expecting 10 turns or so
[13:50] Togas- we just started roading some surplus luxes
[13:50] opd- Do you have a map of other civs land
[13:50] Togas- other civs?
[13:50] opd- specifically ND and GoW
[13:51] Togas- We have all of our continent, and some old GoW exploration maps of Lego
[13:51] opd- Then you'll probably be aware of how things are likely to work out regarding luxs exchange
[13:51] * Shiber[BRB-10mins] is now known as Shiber
[13:51] Shiber- back
[13:51] Shiber- reading the backlog
[13:51] opd- wb
[13:52] Togas- We have a good idea.
[13:52] opd- thats good
[13:52] Shiber- ok, i'm up-to-dat
[13:53] Shiber- *date
[13:53] opd- talking straight lux for lux exchange
[13:53] Shiber- Oh, before that
[13:53] Togas- Shiber -- Trigun is pretty good. In the beginning it's a bit too silly, but later on it gets more involved.
[13:53] Shiber- regarding RP's galley
[13:54] Togas- We're happy to do a straight lux for lux trade ... 1 for 1 or even 2 for 2.
[13:54] Shiber- Yes, I noticed. The part where Vash did this sortof-wire-kungfu jump over the big guy with robotic implants was pretty out-of-place
[13:54] Shiber- Anyway, you're galley,
[13:54] Shiber- *your galley
[13:54] Shiber- You say that you look for uncharted lands.
[13:54] Togas- we don't have a map of GS.
[13:55] Shiber- Well, we have the lighthouse, which means that we have a greater ability to search for uncharted lands, and we've found nothing.
[13:55] Shiber- Yes, I know. Actually, we'd like to keep it this way. I'll explain.
[13:55] Shiber- Currently, lux trading is possible between our nations since we can see your coastal cities.
[13:56] Shiber- So you have no urgent need to chart our coast, at least not for reasons involving trade
[13:56] Togas- If you can offer luxes, that's good to know. We cannot offer luxes or resources as our interface tells us we have no trade route
[13:56] Shiber- Now, you know that relations between our teams have turned a bit unpleasant lately
[13:56] Togas- they've always been poor.
[13:56] Shiber- Togas, yes, I was thinking of coordinating deals with your team and then making the in-game offer on our side (that would serve the same purpose)
[13:57] Shiber- Anyway, I fear that if you continue to chart our coast, it might be suspected by the hawks in our team as preparations for an assault
[13:57] BigFree- Shiber, GS has Maps of all of Bob, you really begrudge RP the chance to Map your shores after you have our Map?
[13:57] Shiber- You know how some of us can get paranoid
[13:57] BigFree- that is plain unfounded
[13:58] Shiber- BigFree, we don't mind if you buy Vox's map. They have charted much of our inner lands and coasts.
[13:58] Togas- I can count the hawks on my team on my index finger.
[13:58] * zeit has joined #PTWTalks
[13:58] Shiber- hi zeit!
[13:58] zeit- hi there
[13:59] zeit- came as soon as I heard
[13:59] Shiber- Oh. I should have called you. Sorry...
[14:01] Togas- What I don't get is why GS seems to think of us as a threat, and then publicly complains that we have so much land to ourselves?
[14:02] Togas- we haven't even settled our own lands, why would we want to build a billion gallies and go invade someone else, especially after Vox's 40 + immortals got their asses kicked?
[14:02] BigFree- LOL
[14:03] zeit- Our concern right now is keeping the sea lanes open
[14:03] Togas- we have luxuries. We have lots of space. We aren't going to go starting trouble around the world, we are VERY happy with the land we have.
[14:03] opd- can you see what were doing with our galleys
[14:03] zeit- as we're transfering troops up and down the coast
[14:03] BigFree- well, since you have the Light house, it's not hard to go around
[14:03] Togas- we can see your gallies on the west coast
[14:03] zeit- your galley(s) could block our path
[14:03] Togas- you guys can INVADE us with the Great lighthouse, and we can't even make it across to you without losing 1/2 our ships
[14:04] Shiber- That's true.
[14:04] Togas- we have to travel all the way up the east coast just to get to Estonia
[14:04] Shiber- (referring both to togas's and zeit's remarks)
[14:04] Togas- thinking of us as a "threat" is silly.
[14:05] Shiber- I can relate to what you say, but we didn't consider GoW a threat either until they nearly took one of our cities in a combined maneuver with Vox.
[14:05] zeit- The current "threat" in your galley's positioon is further landing operations
[14:05] Togas- We have commissioned the Nina, Pina, and Santa Maria to bring back to us maps of the known world.
[14:05] Togas- further landing operations??
[14:05] Shiber- As far as we know, you might have been asked by Vox to help limit our ability to make landings deep into Voxian territory.
[14:05] zeit- on Vox's heartland
[14:06] Shiber- I'm not pointing any fingers, I'm just explaining why we became so anxious.
[14:06] opd- wow
[14:06] Togas- it's just that you guys are pretty smart.
[14:06] Shiber- To top all that, your galley came without warning. While I can't say that you're obliged to let us know if you send a galley to chart our coasts, I think that you should at least do so, for the sake of friendship
[14:07] Togas- I don't see why you guys should be so paranoid.
[14:07] Shiber- Well, we got backstabbed. Twice. Wouldn't you be paranoid too?
[14:07] Togas- no
[14:07] Togas- I'd be realistic
[14:07] Shiber- We never believed that Vox could come up with such a force. They did.
[14:07] Togas- you guys already slaughtered the GoW landing party
[14:08] zeit- The GoW's force could have easily been something more of two elite horsemen
[14:08] Shiber- That was partially a matter of luck.
[14:08] Shiber- If GoW had landed a spear and a horse, the result of that minor invasion might have been a lot different.
[14:08] BigFree- GS sent a Galley to peak at our coast a little while back, i don't remember getting a note about that then.
[14:08] zeit- at that time, every offensive unit we could have spared was in great need.
[14:09] Shiber- At the same turn, a large number of immortals have approached another one of our cities. We were spread and we had to deal with 8 units if I recall correctly.
[14:09] Shiber- There was room for one or two losses, IIRC. There was one, against Voxian forces, but a spear instead of a horse could have meant two more (= failure, loss of a city)
[14:09] zeit- re our galley- we never said we plan on scouting along your coast, as you did here
[14:10] Shiber- BigFree, we were looking for an island between GS's continent and Bob.
[14:10] Shiber- There's a bunch of sea tiles that spread into the ocean
[14:10] Togas- do you guys have any interst in being friendly with us, or is this just a means to tell us to politely to leave you alone?
[14:10] Shiber- It looked like an island at first, but it turned out to be just shallows in the middle of the ocean
[14:10] BigFree- zeit, you already have the map of Bob, hence no need to scout.
[14:10] zeit- exactly
[14:10] BigFree- we do not have your map, hence we scout
[14:11] opd- Togas I'm ready to talk trades
[14:11] Shiber- Togas: no, of course not, we're very interested in trading luxes.
[14:11] zeit- but even if we had, I don't think we would have considered such action to be okay with you
[14:11] BigFree- it's well within the acceptable parameter's of the game for two Civ's not at war.
[14:11] Togas- We're not doing anything criminal or unusual.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Part 2 of 2
quote:
[14:11] Togas- we're just sending *1* galley to do standard coastal mapping
[14:11] Togas- we don't know where your cities are, and from our PoV we need to open trade routes
[14:12] Shiber- One galley, which we'd have to constantly escort with several land units to prevent another GoW scenario
[14:12] Shiber- Just to be on the safe side, of course
[14:12] Togas- can you guys just relax a bit??
[14:12] zeit- our past trials have made us tense
[14:12] Shiber- I'll be back in a bit
[14:12] Togas- no one team is this hard to deal with, not even GoW.
[14:13] zeit- in terms of scouting and bringing galleys closer to our cities, yes
[14:13] zeit- wtr to trade
[14:13] zeit- I don't think we're hard on you
[14:13] Togas- YOU don't think?
[14:13] Togas- great...
[14:13] Togas- Would I be complaining otherwise?
[14:13] opd- well I don't know about this galley stuff
[14:13] opd- but I'd like to trade
[14:14] zeit- so do I. Perhaps something about one galley scouting can be arranged, but we'll have to see the team's opnion on this
[14:15] Shiber- Yes, I agree with Zeit. We've also worked out a similar deal with GoW (which ended prematurely, I'm afraid), but I'm sure that we can work something out.
[14:17] BigFree- I hope so, RP was really looking forward to working with GS
[14:17] zeit- Please, just understand that our security and map information is very valuable to us. We won't hold to it in any circumstance, but we rather it stays exclusively ours
[14:17] BigFree- But I'm afraid hat we will continueour scouting
[14:17] zeit- I'm sorry if this collides with the norms you are used to with other teams
[14:17] BigFree- me too
[14:17] BigFree- 12:4(1
[14:17] BigFree- really
[14:17] BigFree- but...
[14:18] BigFree- we will scout
[14:18] Togas- we're not going to send any other ships, this will be the only one you see
[14:18] BigFree- we will not make any thretening moves
[14:18] Togas- no excuses or nonsense, no disembarcing, no lingering
[14:18] BigFree- we will not land any units
[14:18] Shiber- This is not an official request, but for the time being (that is, while we're conducting some heavy naval activity) I'm sure that my team would appreciate if your galley would just move out of the way for a few turns (perhaps you can begin exploring the eastern coast of the continent?)
[14:18] BigFree- we will avoid all your border's where possible
[14:18] Togas- We are going south of the battle zone next turn
[14:18] zeit- I thank you for your insurences.
[14:19] BigFree- you are welcome
[14:19] opd- anyway
[14:19] Togas- We know it'll be tense for a few turns, but we hope that after those turns are past and you see that we're not there to cause any trouble, you'll trust us a bit more
[14:19] Shiber- Frankly, perhaps you're not aware of how south the naval battle zone stretches
[14:19] Togas- and if we know that if we do anything funny, you'll land a bunch of units next to Barcelona and kick our asses
[14:20] zeit-
[14:21] Togas- we know you have the capability ... we just saw the fleet. Believe me, we're well aware and don't want to cause any troubles
[14:21] Shiber- I'm not familiar with our invasion plans, but looking at the map, I think that where you would move next turn would force our galleys to make long detours that might foil our plans
[14:21] zeit- There is still the problem of blocking sea lanes of reinforcements. So if you could hold your galley for at least a couple of turns. We would most appreciate it
[14:21] Togas- let us know, we will be happy to avoid tiles and choose alternate paths. That's more than acceptable.
[14:22] Shiber- That's the deal... there's no alternative path, not for a pre-astronomy, non-lighthouse (no offense) galley
[14:22] zeit- very well
[14:23] Shiber- There's exactly one coastal tile south of your current position that you can go to in one turn without risking your galley, and due to the geography of the continent, your presence in that tile will require our galleys to make a long detour around it
[14:23] Togas- I know our boats are somewhat inferior ... but please don't tell our Spanish sailors that. They're far too prideful
[14:23] zeit- it depends on where Vox moves theirs, is it not?
[14:23] Shiber- No, look at the map and read my PM
[14:25] Shiber- Currently, where is your galley parked?
[14:25] Shiber- If I may ask
[14:25] Togas- Let me consult the map...
[14:26] Togas- we are west of Inchon
[14:26] Shiber- Oh.
[14:26] Shiber- See, that's not a very good start.
[14:26] Shiber- I'm not familiar with our plans but you might have just foiled them.
[14:26] Shiber- You could have at least asked.
[14:27] Shiber- How do you suppose my teammates would view this?
[14:27] opd- I don't even understand it
[14:27] Togas- no idea
[14:27] Togas- we have ND and GoW ships in our space from time to time.
[14:27] Shiber- Well, are you at war with anyone?
[14:27] Togas- We don't think much of it, if they leave next turn
[14:28] Togas- we're not at war with you, we're trying to work out trades. War would be a stupid idea.
[14:28] zeit- This will possibly hurt our efforts at ferrying troops into Vox heartland next turn
[14:28] zeit- the current position of your galley.
[14:28] Shiber- Surely you won't mind much if the presence of another ship means that you have to delay your exploration mission by one turn, but if it delays an invasion plan by one turn... it could very well mean the failure of that plan.
[14:28] Togas- it won't, you can move right around our ship
[14:28] zeit- but we're pressed in time
[14:29] Togas- seriously, look at the map
[14:29] Shiber- Togas, no, I mean that you're not upset when foreign ships enter your waters because you're not at war with anyone.
[14:29] Togas- we're not in the way, we're not next to the coastal route, nor blocking the land
[14:29] Shiber- But we are. And our missions are very much time-critical.
[14:29] opd- BigFree you sitll there
[14:29] BigFree- yes
[14:29] opd- you wanna talk trade
[14:29] BigFree- sure, what you got, i got pokemon cards
[14:29] Shiber- Togas, you're not familiar with our plans for the next turn, I believe. I'm not familiar with the details, but I think that you've just screwed them up.
[14:30] Shiber- Anyway, what's done is done.
[14:30] opd- lol
[14:30] Shiber- We can talk about this later.
[14:30] zeit- What's done is done, that's true. Please consult you future moves with us, okay?
[14:30] Shiber- lol
[14:30] Shiber- !!
[14:30] zeit- LOL, i just got that now!
[14:30] Shiber- Oh, and be sure that the next time you say that diplomacy with us is difficult, we will remind you of this incident  
[14:31] opd- anyway
[14:31] Togas- Frankly, I don't see it, as there's alternate paths that = same travel time.
[14:31] opd- as I was saying
[14:32] opd- how long till you would be able to get ivory and silks hooked up
[14:32] Togas- Forget ivory
[14:32] Togas- that's ages
[14:33] opd- gems?
[14:33] BigFree- let me check the number's, the priority on those items fluctuates with talks
[14:33] Togas- we'll have spice or gems ready soonish. Less than 10, I'm pretty sure, but I need to look it up
[14:33] opd- hmmmnn
[14:34] opd- and do you have silks now?
[14:34] Togas- we do, but we need to hook up another one
[14:35] Togas- that's within the same window of time. Less than 10. Probably much less.
[14:35] opd- what would you say to the proposed trade of silks and gems for 2 of ours
[14:35] Togas- phone...
[14:36] Shiber- (that is, silks and gems for our furs and ivory)
[14:37] Shiber- *incense
[14:37] opd- The finest furs and incense
[14:37] opd- money can buy
[14:38] opd- can be yours
[14:38] BigFree- do you have furs an incense or furs and ivory?
[14:38] Shiber- if you call within the next 30 minutes
[14:38] opd- furs and incense
[14:38] Shiber- no, we have furs and incense to trade
[14:38] Shiber- ivory was a typo
[14:38] opd- we'd like some ivory
[14:39] opd- do you have a time on possible ivory hook up?
[14:39] zeit- Well, I gtg, have fun everyone! bye!
[14:39] BigFree- it would be a while for the Ivory
[14:40] opd- bb ziet
[14:40] BigFree- adios
[14:40] * zeit has quit IRC (Quit: )
[14:41] Shiber- Oh, DAMN, look at the time!
[14:41] Shiber- I have to leave too
[14:41] Shiber-
[14:42] Shiber- But we've only got lux trade left on this chat's agenda, right? And I see that we are both interested in a 2-2 trade.
[14:42] Shiber- What remains is working out the details.
[14:42] opd- ok
[14:42] BigFree- yes
[14:43] BigFree- let us get backto you on a time shedule for the hook up of thos e luxes
[14:43] Shiber- Perhaps we can bundle the luxes deal with an agreement regarding RP's charting galley
[14:43] BigFree- perhaps
[14:43] Shiber- Yes, that would be great
[14:43] Shiber- I really must leave now
[14:43] Shiber- I'm terribly sorry
[14:43] opd- wait
[14:46] opd- so how are things on bob?
[14:47] Shiber- Good night all
[14:47] opd- bb shib
[14:47] BigFree- good
[14:47] BigFree- later
[14:47] Togas- back
[14:47] * Shiber has quit IRC (Quit: Good night)
[14:48] opd- a bit like the cuban missile crisis there
[14:48] opd- anyway
[14:49] opd- so would you have silks and gem connected within ten turns
[14:49] Togas- Shiber seemed a bit too serious about the whole galley thing. You'll see that in 10-20 turns that the whole thing will be forgotten.
[14:49] Togas- certainly
[14:49] Togas- silks & gems for furs and incense ... I think that would be a trade that would benefit both of our people
[14:50] opd- I don't really understand it myself
[14:50] opd- but Shiber is alot more intouch with GS politics than I am
[14:50] BigFree- LOL
[14:50] opd- I think something may have happen with GoW saying they were scouting
[14:51] opd- then dropping units. but I wasn't around
[14:51] Togas- GoW is rather slippery that way
[14:51] opd- so we are go for the dual lux trade.
[14:51] Togas- I know you guys don't have much experience with us in the past, so I should probably be a bit more understanding
[14:52] Togas- We are on for a 2 for 2 lux swap.
[14:53] opd- ten turns sounds cool?
[14:53] Togas- We should finalize it, you notify us when the harbor is done, we'll notify you when we're linked
[14:53] Togas- it'll be within 10, hopefully sooner
[14:54] opd- Are you planning on trading with the others on bob
[14:54] BigFree- yes, ofcourd
[14:54] opd- Those wines look nice but GoW will prob be asking alot
[14:55] Togas- we'd like to trade with everyone if possible
[14:55] opd- same here
[14:55] opd- will lego be able to trade with harbours
[14:56] opd- before navigation
[14:57] Togas- let me check.
[14:57] Togas- hrm, my map is unclear. It's hard to say, I'll check the save next time to find out.
[14:57] opd- ok
[14:57] Togas- Right now we don't have a trade route with them yet, though.
[14:58] opd- will you be likely to trade your spices to lego
[14:58] Togas- how much do you know about Legoland?
[14:58] opd- we have a small bit of their map
[14:59] opd- can't see any luxs
[14:59] Togas- we have mostly old GoW exploration maps, and can't tell from my screenshot how close that GoW island is to Lego
[14:59] opd- theres alot of land there
[14:59] Togas- they have dyes, according to "rumor"
[14:59] opd- those rumour have to be true.
[14:59] opd- IMO
[15:00] opd- It's just that with regard to spices
[15:00] Togas- I agree
[15:00] Togas- As for spices, we have VERY few ... we basically get to pick 1 team to trade them to
[15:00] opd- It would be better for GS to deal with ND as we could get them on a lux for lux deal
[15:01] opd- everyone else has them so perhaps lego may be interested
[15:02] Togas- we MIGHT, ND might as well
[15:02] opd- that should be interesting.
[15:02] Togas- the thing is, giving too many luxes to Legoland is sealing our fate.
[15:02] opd- how about an embargo?
[15:02] Togas- they're suffering through republic with 1 luxury
[15:02] Togas-
[15:03] opd- yeah screw em and their smugness
[15:03] Togas- we'd consider an embargo, of course. But we haven't had reason to do so yet
[15:03] opd- yeah I know it could be something we could look at in the future though
[15:04] Togas- Despite Lego's isolationism, we've pulled off a few deals in the past.
[15:04] Togas- at least they're not agressive
[15:04] opd- I just wish it was them and GoW on an island
[15:04] Togas- that would be classic
[15:04] Togas- But GoW & ND balance each other out
[15:05] opd- how do you mean
[15:05] Togas- Both with the same overall threat, UUs at the same time. Same class.
[15:05] opd- hmm that could be bad for you
[15:05] Togas- if we were in the middle, yes
[15:06] opd- how do you view the chances of a war on bob
[15:06] opd- UU at the same time means they don't really have an advantage over each other.
[15:12] opd- you still there
[15:13] * opd slaps Togas around a bit with a large trout
[15:18] BigFree- sorry buy ATM
[15:18] BigFree- *busy
[15:18] opd- ok will contact you when we have built a harbour
[15:20] BigFree- cool
[15:21] opd- ok nice to talk
[15:21] BigFree- you too
[15:23] opd- tell togas I said bye
[15:23] * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
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GS wants to trade Lux one for one, or two for two.
GS wants us not to scout South Estonia, we said we would anyways, I think they grudingly accept that we will but we will try to stay "out of the way."
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Chat with ND and GoW
quote:
Session Start: Thu Jun 12 04:12:42 2003
Session Ident: #PTWDGConference
[04:12] * Now talking in #PTWDGConference
[04:12] * Topic is 'Conference Room For ND-RP-GoW'
[04:12] * Set by BigFree on Thu Jun 12 03:42:22
[04:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree
[08:44] * Togas has joined #PTWDGConference
[08:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Togas
[10:04] * MasterZen has joined #PTWDGConference
[10:07] BigFree- yo
[10:07] BigFree- Darekill is supposed to be here
[10:07] BigFree- they are 7 minutes late
[10:07] MasterZen- yo
[10:07] * BigFree sets mode: +o MasterZen
[10:07] MasterZen- unusual for germans
[10:07] BigFree- let me PM him
[10:29] Togas- ....
[10:29] BigFree- no answer
[11:07] * Panzer_32 has joined #ptwdgconference
[11:10] Togas- where the hell is Darekill???
[11:10] * BigFree sets mode: +o Panzer_32
[11:10] MasterZen- invading France?
[11:10] * [ND]Borc has joined #PTWDGConference
[11:11] BigFree- hola
[11:11] BigFree- hello
[11:11] [ND]Borc- hello everybody!
[11:11] BigFree- welcome
[11:11] MasterZen- greetings
[11:11] [ND]Borc- is this really the ALL-CONTINENANTAL-CHAT??
[11:11] MasterZen- yep, only Bobians here
[11:11] BigFree- yes siree
[11:11] [ND]Borc- good! fine!
[11:11] * BigFree sets mode: +o [ND]Borc
[11:11] Togas- yes!
[11:12] BigFree- we were just wondering if ND was going to be here
[11:12] [ND]Borc- sorry i was not suer if the chat would happen today
[11:13] BigFree- Darekill said Thursday at 1800 GMT
[11:13] [ND]Borc- yes, but he told me that he never had an asnwer from you or from GoW
[11:14] [ND]Borc- so i was not sure
[11:14] [ND]Borc- anyway now we are here
[11:14] Togas- hey, when Darekill says there's a chat, we show up
[11:14] MasterZen- we're always here anyway (chat addicts)
[11:16] Togas- I'm not sure what Darekill had in mind when he called the chat, but there are 2 things on my mind that ought to be discussed
[11:16] [ND]Borc- Togas, we are here to discuss the GS-Vox conflict, right?
[11:16] Togas- That was one of them
[11:16] [ND]Borc- cross post sorry
[11:17] BigFree- we'd like to discuss th security of "Bob"
[11:17] Togas- that's the other
[11:18] Togas- I'll start discussions:
[11:18] Togas- The Vox/GS was is drawing to a climax now that GS has built 2 cities and taken away Vox's iron... Furthermore, GS has landed a small group (7) of units north of Eliopolis this last turn, they've invaded the Vox homeland
[11:19] Togas- Vox may still be able to fight. They say they are. But their mil strength is weaker than GS.
[11:19] MasterZen- much much weaker
[11:20] [ND]Borc- that are bad news...
[11:20] Togas- I'm sure we'd all like to see Vox stand up to GS and cause them more trouble, but at this point, if Vox goes it alone, they're going to bite the dust.
[11:20] Togas- however, if any of us get involved, it could be a pointless endevour. I'd like to know what the rest of you think about the situation and if there is anything we can do?
[11:21] [ND]Borc- i had a short chat with zeit 2 days ago
[11:21] [ND]Borc- nothing important
[11:21] [ND]Borc- we thought that Vox would stand longer :-(
[11:22] Togas- Borc, what does ND think about the war?
[11:22] [ND]Borc- we are very interested to keep Vox and GS balanced in power and landmass
[11:22] [ND]Borc- but maybe it is too late?
[11:23] [ND]Borc- we dont have a harbour in the east and thats why we feel far away from them - until now!
[11:24] Togas- Is there anything ND can do? Anything you'd want to do?
[11:24] MasterZen- problem is what can we ALL do, in the collective sense
[11:24] [ND]Borc- we just formed a nwe government, vox is the next on my list to chat with
[11:25] MasterZen- it's not like any one of us can take on GS, even all three of us
[11:25] [ND]Borc- i have no idea at the moment
[11:26] [ND]Borc- are you supporting vox somehow at the moment
[11:26] BigFree- I believe all 3 plus Vox could at the very least force a stalemate with very little cost on our part. GS'es GA will be over soon
[11:26] Togas- Spain has been seriously considering trading iron to Vox to try to revive their military. But, as you know, GS has already stated publicly their displeasure, and veiled threats.
[11:27] BigFree- I know that Vox also need Horses, someting that ND could trade them or gift them.
[11:27] MasterZen- GS is just being little *****es
[11:28] MasterZen- I mean, even with Iron they can win
[11:28] Togas- I agree
[11:28] MasterZen- of course, the iron would slow em down a bit
[11:28] MasterZen- which would be in our best interests
[11:28] BigFree- yes, it's that slow down part that I'm interested in
[11:28] Togas- We worry that it's more of an excuse for a second offensive. GS is very close to Spain via water.
[11:29] MasterZen- are your eastern cities fortified or something?
[11:29] Panzer_32- GS has the lighthouse
[11:29] MasterZen- because retaliation can only be so much...
[11:29] Togas- we have some troops there, yes, but nothing substantial. We still have to guard our northern border.
[11:29] MasterZen- I doubt they'll keep warmongering
[11:30] MasterZen- they've constantly stated their displeasure at ruining their GA for warmaking purposes
[11:30] Togas- but with the success they're having, and with all those mil units around waiting for promotions
[11:30] MasterZen- Aeson and nbarcley are builders at heart, and they seem to be running the team
[11:31] Togas- They couldn't conquer Spain, we have too many troops, but they could ruin several of our eastern cities and destroy our shipbuilding facilities.
[11:32] MasterZen- without those cities eastern bob would only be left with 1 harbor in the east: port isolation
[11:32] [ND]Borc- its a pitty we dont have a harbor yet to send vox something :-(
[11:32] MasterZen- that for the long term is not very good
[11:32] BigFree- Borc, could ND send Vox Horses?
[11:33] [ND]Borc- we need a harbor
[11:33] Togas- Can you trade through someone else's harbor?
[11:33] MasterZen- is that even possible?
[11:33] BigFree- can't you send it through GoW's harbor, I think you can
[11:33] [ND]Borc- if it is possible, mz?
[11:33] BigFree- The game automatically figures the route
[11:34] Togas- I need to leave in 5 minutes for a meeting. Will be back after an hour or two.
[11:34] Panzer_32- ok
[11:34] Togas- BigFree can handle things
[11:34] MasterZen- np
[11:34] [ND]Borc- im sure my people would like to send horses to vox!
[11:34] MasterZen- no he can't, he's INSANE!!! 
[11:34] Togas- There's 2 things I'd like to see:
[11:34] * Guest12 has joined #PTWDGConference
[11:35] * BigFree slaps MZ around a bit with squid
[11:35] Togas- who is guest12?
[11:35] * Looking up Guest12 user info...
[11:35] [ND]Borc- is it you zayxus?
[11:35] * Guest12 is now known as Zayxus
[11:35] MasterZen- beats the hell out of me?
[11:35] [ND]Borc- fine!
[11:35] MasterZen- ok
[11:35] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Zayxus
[11:36] [ND]Borc- Zayxus: we are just talking about how to help vox
[11:36] Togas- 1) My hope is that we, as a group, could come to a decision on what to do about Vox, if anything
[11:36] Togas- I'd hate for Spain to go it alone. I don't think we want to stick our neck out for Vox if ours is the only neck
[11:37] MasterZen- the way i see it is we should stick our neck if and only if the long term advantage of it favors us
[11:37] Togas- 2) Reaffirm the current peace on Bob. Settle on some borders, and recommit to the Bob Alliance.
[11:38] MasterZen- GS wants Vox out of the continent
[11:38] MasterZen- Vox wants to settle on NE Bob
[11:38] BigFree- no way jose
[11:38] MasterZen- man, one tile of water to separate a weak Vox from GS
[11:38] MasterZen- hence a springboard for Bob, and GoW would be first
[11:38] MasterZen- that is a big No-No
[11:38] MasterZen- only chance is Lego
[11:38] MasterZen- lego has a huge amount of space
[11:38] Togas- I need to leave.
[11:39] MasterZen- ok, cya lat
[11:39] MasterZen- a
[11:39] BigFree- Lego has already expressed an interest in that direction
[11:39] Togas- Hopefully all or most of you will be here when I return
[11:39] Panzer_32- bye Togas
[11:39] [ND]Borc- togas thx
[11:39] BigFree- adios
[11:39] * Togas is now known as TogasAWAY
[11:39] MasterZen- I have to leave in like an hour... a little more
[11:39] BigFree- So, if RP gives Iron and ND gives Horses; what will GoW give?
[11:40] MasterZen- wine?
[11:40] BigFree- more like whine
[11:40] BigFree- LOL
[11:40] BigFree- seriously though, what cn GoW do if it wanted to?
[11:40] MasterZen- we can whine too
[11:41] MasterZen- we are already acting as mediators
[11:41] MasterZen- in terms of resources, you all know we don't have any extra
[11:42] BigFree- not doing a good job according to my reports GS wants all of Vox dead, or is that what you were going for? 
[11:42] MasterZen- GS wants Vox out of the continent that's all
[11:42] Panzer_32- we were going to ship troops, but Vox said basically they didn't want them b/c they are useless
[11:42] [ND]Borc- we can ask lego to make a tech trade embargo vs GS
[11:42] BigFree- why is Vox asking us for troops then?
[11:42] [ND]Borc- GS is not very advanced
[11:43] MasterZen- depends on what units you were planning on sending
[11:43] Panzer_32- I have no idea
[11:43] MasterZen- we have Pikes at Port Iso. they can be shipped when Vox says so
[11:43] BigFree- ok
[11:44] BigFree- so GoW is ready to send troops if and whne Vox asks?
[11:44] MasterZen- if, but Vox seems to be looking for a diplomatic solution according to our reports :P
[11:45] BigFree- they already tried and it failed
[11:45] MasterZen- it hasn't failed, it's going on at the moment, Vox is still negotiating a re-settlement place
[11:45] BigFree- they have a chat scheduled with me at 6PM EST
[11:46] BigFree- No MZ
[11:46] BigFree- not anymore
[11:46] MasterZen- oh no? then what's their brilliant plan now? stand and die?
[11:46] BigFree- beta tried for the peace but GS would not settle for anything less thatn their removal
[11:47] [ND]Borc- does anybody here have a map of this whole eastern continent???
[11:47] BigFree- not RP
[11:47] [ND]Borc- we dont know the gs land
[11:47] MasterZen- that's exactly what I said
[11:47] BigFree- but since Vox willnot settle for that, there's no chance for peace
[11:47] MasterZen- Vox is looking to re-settle SOMEWHERE, that's the diplomatic situation going on right now
[11:48] MasterZen- they will eventually, trust me, wouldn't you do the same?
[11:48] BigFree- right, that's one solution, but would they not fight it out on Estonia even if the resettled?
[11:48] MasterZen- of course they would
[11:48] MasterZen- brb
[11:48] BigFree- good, then they still need iron and help
[11:49] [ND]Borc- how big is estonia, bigfree, did your ships explore their coasts?
[11:49] BigFree- what ever we can do to help Vox cause more tropuble and pain for GS the better for all thos on Bob
[11:49] BigFree- Borc, we have not explored it
[11:49] BigFree- GoW has expolored it more so
[11:51] * [RP]mrmitchell has joined #ptwdgconference
[11:51] BigFree- but I think that GS has about 25% more tiles than Vox
[11:52] [ND]Borc- is the GS land smaller or bugger than the rp land?
[11:52] BigFree- Keeping GS realatively low on he power scale is what I'm after for now, that would bring Bob more security
[11:52] [ND]Borc- *bigger
[11:52] BigFree- I think it is smaller
[11:52] BigFree- but I have not seen all of it
[11:53] BigFree- it could be the same size
[11:53] [ND]Borc- ok, thx
[11:53] * Trip- has joined #ptwdgconference
[11:53] BigFree- the map generator can do wild things sometimes
[11:54] * BigFree sets mode: +o [RP]mrmitchell
[11:54] MasterZen- back
[11:54] BigFree- Borc, you can check your lastest save to determine if ND can trade Horses to Vox, will you do that?
[11:55] [ND]Borc- ill try... im here in my office so it will last alittle bit
[11:55] BigFree- hehe
[11:55] BigFree- ok
[11:56] BigFree- don't get caught at work playinggames!
[11:56] MasterZen- tell that to Togas
[11:56] BigFree-
[11:57] [ND]Borc- its my company - i am the boss
[11:57] BigFree- nice
[11:57] [ND]Borc- the others have to work
[11:57] MasterZen- hehe, bring out the whip!
[11:58] [ND]Borc- no its 9pm here, the others are at home
[11:58] [ND]Borc- but the boss works longer
[11:58] MasterZen- a true leader
[12:01] BigFree- Do you guys wanna tlk border arrangements?
[12:02] MasterZen- borders... hmm... ALL YOUR CITIES ARE BELONG TO GoW!!
[12:02] [ND]Borc- we can offer horses!
[12:03] BigFree- cool
[12:03] [ND]Borc- and rp can offer iron, right?
[12:04] MasterZen- and we'll offer troops if they want and mediate a re-settlement space or any other peace deal
[12:04] BigFree- in 2 turns
[12:05] [ND]Borc- fine
[12:06] [ND]Borc- i have to poll this in our fprum as we ever do witrh everything
[12:06] [ND]Borc- so we can do this all together in 2 turns
[12:07] BigFree- sure
[12:07] BigFree- that would be grat
[12:07] BigFree- *great
[12:08] [ND]Borc- MZ, sending trups is the most aggressive thing and the biggest job i would say...
[12:08] BigFree- that and Iron
[12:08] Zayxus- hi Trip
[12:08] Trip-- hello
[12:09] BigFree- but if we all take the agressive stance, GS canot do ****
[12:09] [ND]Borc- yes we should stand close together with all this
[12:10] MasterZen- of course in essence it's one big giant bluff
[12:10] [ND]Borc- what do you think about a tech embargo vs GS?
[12:10] [ND]Borc- that would hurt most!
[12:10] BigFree- not relyy MZ, GS will loseit's GA soon and they will be "human" again
[12:10] MasterZen- carefull though...
[12:10] MasterZen- you poke giants, but you don't fight them
[12:11] MasterZen- what I'm saying is you provoke them close to their breaking point
[12:11] MasterZen- enough for them to think twice about taking further action, but not enough so that their dignity and honor force them to respond
[12:11] BigFree- HAHA
[12:11] BigFree- dignity
[12:11] BigFree- they want to win
[12:12] BigFree- but I agree that they will folow a code somewhat
[12:15] MasterZen- they are very easy to guess team
[12:15] MasterZen- psychologically
[12:19] [ND]Borc- friends.. its late here and i have to go, i will start a poll now about sending horses to vox (in 2 turns) ... let us stay in contact and if somebody can send me the chat log to borc@cylusion.com later?
[12:20] MasterZen- sure thing
[12:20] [RP]mrmitchell- ok
[12:20] BigFree- sure
[12:20] BigFree- thanks fopr coming Borc
[12:20] [ND]Borc- fine! it was a very good idea to make this chat!
[12:20] BigFree- this room will alwsya be here
[12:20] [ND]Borc- i really hope vox still has a chance
[12:21] BigFree- this is a permanent room/channel
[12:21] [ND]Borc- i will message togas and master zen as soon as possible!
[12:21] [ND]Borc- bye
[12:21] BigFree- adios
[12:21] * [ND]Borc has left #PTWDGConference
[13:00] * MasterZen has quit IRC (Quit: I hate my thesis...)
[13:03] * Trip- has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[13:07] * BigFree is now known as [GOD]BigFree
[13:07] * [GOD]BigFree is now known as [DOG]BigFree
[13:09] * Zayxus has quit IRC (Quit: cu)
[13:16] * [DOG]BigFree is now known as BigFree
[13:38] * TogasAWAY is now known as Togas
[15:13] * Panzer_32 has quit IRC (Quit: )
[15:35] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|AtWork
[16:58] * Togas has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:14] [RP]mrmitchell- i g2g. cya.
[17:14] * [RP]mrmitchell has left #ptwdgconference
[17:17] * BigFree|AtWork is now known as BigFree
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Basically ND want to support Vox by giving Horses and GoW is leary of fighting a losing battle. GoW might be willing to "posture" for GS to get them to back down from Vox. We'll find out tonight in the chat with all 4-5 teams.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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A late night impromptu chat with GS due to the public posting by Beta.
Part 1 of 2
quote:
Session Start: Fri Jun 13 00:00:00 2003
Session Ident: #PTWTalks
[00:22] * Togas has quit IRC (Quit: )
[01:27] * MSS has joined #ptwtalks
[01:27] MSS- There
[01:27] * nbarclay has joined #PTWTalks
[01:27] BigFree- hola
[01:27] MSS- hey...
[01:27] nbarclay- Hi. Just thought I'd pop in and see what's going on.
[01:27] BigFree- two for the price of one
[01:27] MSS- Have you been to the public forum yet?
[01:27] MSS- thanks nathan..
[01:28] BigFree- Are you asking me?
[01:28] MSS- Beta started a thread that we find quite disturbing
[01:28] MSS- yes...
[01:28] BigFree- hmm, have not seen it, I've been playing ISDG scenarios
[01:29] BigFree- I thought you two were going for peace?
[01:29] MSS- Well In it are a few falshoods and
[01:29] MSS- ...we were
[01:29] nbarclay- We're willing to give them some time to get off the continent if they can find somewhere else to go.
[01:29] nbarclay- Or at least we were until this latest stunt.
[01:29] MSS- but they just started to spew all sorts of stuff...
[01:29] BigFree- ah, that kind of peace
[01:29] * Shiber has joined #ptwtalks
[01:29] MSS- they are trying to look like victims now...
[01:30] Shiber- good morning
[01:30] BigFree- so it's a "leave or else" kind of offer?
[01:30] MSS- morning..
[01:30] Shiber- No, actually they were already preparing to evacuate the continent by the time that our proposal has reached them
[01:30] MSS- basically,
[01:30] Shiber- (that's according to Jon)
[01:30] MSS- true shiber..
[01:30] nbarclay- It's a "If you want to evacuate, we'll give you some breathing space to do so," kind of offer.
[01:30] MSS- yep..
[01:31] BigFree- hmm
[01:31] BigFree- intersting
[01:31] nbarclay- As I said the other day, we don't regard continued coexistence with a team that has shown its willingness to deceive us and attack us as safe.
[01:31] Shiber- We proposed to give them several turns (~12 was the initial offer), resources and help to allow them to evacuate as much of their population as possible.
[01:31] BigFree- but now that deal is dead?
[01:31] MSS- sure, I was hoping our amabssadors would get the chance to tell you by now...and solicit some advice/help
[01:32] Shiber- BigFree, I suppose that a public apology from Beta might fix things. At least it would for me, I'm not sure what my teammates would think.
[01:32] MSS- but it is now
[01:32] MSS- or so it seams
[01:32] BigFree- How soon do you guys plan to act on this lastest news?
[01:32] nbarclay- That depends on what the map looks like when we get the save.
[01:33] Shiber- Well, in-game, war will continue (in accordance with our diplomatic messages to Vox that were sent prior to Beta's latest announcement, explaining that until an agreement is signed, all in-game hostilities will continue)
[01:33] nbarclay- But I doubt that it will have much effect on the next turn or two compared with if Vox simply ignored our latest proposal.
[01:33] MSS- we do not want to give them a satisfaction of an answer, but we are at war, so thats that
[01:34] BigFree- I though they had already offered; but now you guys say you didn't accept it and have continued the assault?
[01:34] MSS- Nothing was agreed upon..
[01:34] BigFree- I understand
[01:34] nbarclay- Their offer was essentially just to let us keep the territory that was already behind our front lines.
[01:34] MSS- it was all in negotiation
[01:35] BigFree- But they did offer peace and you continued the assault. Is that correct?
[01:35] MSS- yes,
[01:35] BigFree- ah
[01:35] Shiber- The offer that Beta detailed is similar to an offer that we've tried to communicate to Vox long before our maneuvers that cut their iron (only our proposal was much better).
[01:35] BigFree- let me read this statement
[01:35] MSS- please.
[01:35] Shiber- Now they make it when they're nearly dead, and the cities that they "offer" us are now on our side of the front line and are nearly defenseless
[01:35] BigFree- might make things clearer
[01:35] MSS- We ask that you and your team does not fuel this mis-fire
[01:35] nbarclay- I'm not positive whether we'd already made the offer (long ago) or just discussed it.
[01:36] BigFree- ok,understood give me a few to read it
[01:36] MSS- I thought we discussed it, but never communicated it
[01:36] nbarclay- MSS, that matches my recollection too.
[01:38] BigFree- I do not know the location of your or their troops, but the offer sounded resonable to me. But I was not the one that was attacked by Vox so maybe my judgement is from a completely different view point.
[01:39] nbarclay- If we could trust Vox, I would view their peace offer as reasonable.
[01:39] BigFree- what wasn't fair about it to you?
[01:39] BigFree- I see
[01:40] MSS- I guess the iss is not "reasonable" or not, it is public disclosure of private negotiations with a sprinkel of falshoods that disturbs us...
[01:40] nbarclay- Did Beta mention that of the immortals we killed, three were down to one hit point each and the others to two hit points each?
[01:40] BigFree- So now Vox is up against extinction?
[01:40] nbarclay- (And would have been at one after another round of cat attacks?)
[01:40] BigFree- I did not read that in the post
[01:40] Shiber- And their "gesture of good will" was really moving immortals towards three of our workers
[01:40] nbarclay- Those immortals were dead either way.
[01:40] Shiber- (that is, moving already-dead-immortals)
[01:41] nbarclay- And if it was a gesture of faith, it was an incompetent one.
[01:41] MSS- They asked for safe passage, but we made it claer (twice) that hostilitis will continue untill we have an agreement...
[01:41] nbarclay- Where those immortals moved to put them next to not one, not two, but three undefended GS workers!
[01:41] BigFree- could they have moved them in a different direction?
[01:41] MSS- natnah?
[01:41] Shiber- Plus, Jon said that Vox has made several mistakes in-game, we suspect that what Beta tries to present as gestures (moving immortals off of mountains and immortals near Inchon moving south and then north again) were just mistakes
[01:42] BigFree- LOL
[01:42] nbarclay- We had the immortals pretty well boxed in. In two of five possible directions, we had pikes on mountains. One put them next to our workers, and one would have put them next to one of our cities.
[01:42] BigFree- that's kind of nasty to say that though...be nice, don't make it personal, this is just a game. 12:4)1
[01:42] nbarclay- (That's how we got them down to so few hit points.)
[01:43] nbarclay- Three of five were mountains. (Typo)
[01:44] BigFree- It's a little disturbing to think of Vox being extincted though...can't you guys work something out?
[01:44] nbarclay- It's hard to see what could work with them on our continent.
[01:45] BigFree- Is there not enough room for the both of you?
[01:45] nbarclay- The added expense of maintaining the border guards we would need would be very considerable.
[01:45] MSS- We tried... They are making it hard to welcom their presence in the game with stunts such as this...
[01:45] BigFree- heck, we all have to put up withthat expense on Bob
[01:45] BigFree- Look at por ND, they are Sandwiched
[01:46] nbarclay- Not against civs that have already used an elaborate deception to set up an attack on you.
[01:46] MSS- True, but there is a bit of land.... more expense, buut more revenue
[01:46] nbarclay- More revenue from where?
[01:46] MSS- Would you welcome Vox on Bob?
[01:46] BigFree- uh, no
[01:46] MSS- give them a place to live?
[01:46] BigFree- 3's company
[01:47] MSS- lol
[01:47] MSS- hardly
[01:47] BigFree- 4's a crowd, look what happened to Lux
[01:47] nbarclay- Keep in mind that the territory RP looks like you're planning to claim is bigger than our entire continent.
[01:47] MSS- We understand, but vox is no longer welcom, they are not good neighbors..
[01:47] Shiber- Then perhaps they can find themselves some room in one of Lego's continents
[01:48] BigFree- So, GS does not and will not ever trust Vox again?
[01:48] Shiber- You can bet on that
[01:48] nbarclay- We'll never trust Vox with anything we can't afford to lose.
[01:48] MSS- true shiber... we were willing to set them up with techs, iron, time
[01:49] nbarclay- In fairness, we hadn't presented the idea of helping with techs to Vox yet.
[01:49] BigFree- I will have to take this news too our forums. RP thought there was going to be peace on Estonia... 12:4(1
[01:49] MSS- but they stab us in the back by disclosing privatenegotiation and spreading half truths
[01:49] nbarclay- I thought I'd made it fairly clear in our chat the other day that there wouldn't be.
[01:49] MSS- True, but we were just beginning...
[01:49] nbarclay- Where did you get the expectation that there would?
[01:49] nbarclay- Vox?
[01:50] BigFree- WEll we got messages saying that peace was on the way by Vox
[01:50] Shiber- Then they lied to you too.
[01:50] MSS- it was, untill now
[01:50] Shiber- They couldn't have seriously expected peace if they knew that they were going to post such a message
[01:50] MSS- we were working on it
[01:50] BigFree- we saw stuff withour Galley and asked about it
[01:51] nbarclay- I'm not sure whether Vox lied or whether they just let their hopes speak for them without waiting for a commitment from us.
[01:51] BigFree- perhaps
[01:51] MSS- Hope speak I think..
[01:51] Shiber- Nathan is right, to say that Vox lied to you too would be premature
[01:51] BigFree- maybe they thought the deal for peace would be accpeted
[01:52] MSS- Still counting the chickens...
[01:53] MSS- All we are asking right now is that you and your team ..don't buy into it
[01:53] nbarclay- We'd expressed some interest in talking about peace, but the initial messages went out before we polled GS to see what the team's sentiment was.
[01:53] nbarclay- A pretty overwhelming majority doesn't trust Vox to regard peaceful coexistence on the same continent as practical.
[01:54] nbarclay- doesn't trust Vox enough...
[01:54] BigFree- Personally, and not form the standpoint of my Civ, I think GS had a right to conqueror some of Vox's land, but not to the point of extinction. I urge GS not to do this to Vox. It just would feel right from my POV. My teammates may feel differntly. Nevertheless, it is a shockto hear this.
[01:55] MSS- I assume you ment would'nt
[01:55] BigFree- *wouldn't
[01:55] MSS- gotcha
[01:55] BigFree- I cant type well 12:4P1
[01:55] MSS- look at my crap
[01:55] BigFree- I hen peck
[01:56] MSS- ditto
[01:56] MSS- Well we havent conqered any land yet
[01:56] MSS- zip zero nada
[01:56] MSS- we are getting ready.
[01:56] BigFree- I would consider the two towns you settled as land conqured...
[01:57] MSS- hmmm
[01:57] Shiber- Yes, that makes sense
[01:57] BigFree- well, the land was behind their already settle towns
[01:57] MSS- true, I see that perspecive...
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Part 2 of 2
quote:
[01:58] BigFree- What if, and a BIG IF, RP stepped in as Mediators?
[01:58] MSS- Curious
[01:58] BigFree- Where we forced a peace upon Vox
[01:59] BigFree- so thye could not attack you
[01:59] nbarclay- What kind of proposal could you mediate that would solve anything, when we have little reason to view a treaty from Vox as worth the paper it's written on?
[01:59] BigFree- well, we could physically intervene
[01:59] MSS- War?
[01:59] BigFree- no
[01:59] BigFree- just put ourselves in between you two
[02:00] MSS- wierd
[02:00] BigFree- that way, they would have to declar war on us to get to you
[02:00] BigFree- sort of like a UN peace keeping force
[02:00] nbarclay- If RP held Elipolis and kept a significant garrison there, that might have some, uh, interesting effects, I'll admit.
[02:01] BigFree- This is all off the top of my head...
[02:01] BigFree- Togas and the rest of the team would have be be tolsd of this and it would be debated and such
[02:01] Shiber- I have to leave now.
[02:01] Shiber- RL, sorry.
[02:01] BigFree- take care
[02:01] MSS- that is a cloak of hypocracy though... That is like a fourth civ on bob....
[02:01] Shiber- Thanks, cya
[02:01] * Shiber has quit IRC (Quit: Shiber has no reason)
[02:01] BigFree- LOL
[02:02] BigFree- I lauhg at the quit messages
[02:02] MSS- I C
[02:02] BigFree- someone had ****you and they never knew it
[02:02] MSS- no insinuation, just looking critivcally
[02:02] nbarclay- On the other hand, even if we could agree to something like that, if we did it in the immediate aftermath of Beta's post, it would look a lot like we were rewarding Beta for diplomatic tactics we regard as much less than honest.
[02:02] MSS- tru nathan
[02:03] BigFree- I would propose having a city, just a small number of troops
[02:03] BigFree- *wouldn't
[02:03] MSS- Sure, that makes more sense
[02:03] MSS- hehe
[02:03] BigFree- my pink went to sleep and forgot to type the n't
[02:04] nbarclay-
[02:04] MSS- I do not know.... Really all we ask is that you and your team doesn't fuel the fire in the thread.
[02:04] MSS- let the pooh dry up
[02:04] BigFree- I understand
[02:04] BigFree- but i cannot speak for the whole team
[02:04] MSS- I understand
[02:05] nbarclay- Question: if a team did to you what Vox did to us, would you consider it inappropriate to completely conquer them, or even to take more than 1/6 of their established cities as of the time of the attack?
[02:05] BigFree- Should I even bother to mention the "peace keeping" idea to my team?
[02:05] nbarclay- Actually, probably 1/7.
[02:05] MSS- Mediate maybe, but we want them off the continent
[02:05] MSS- ExVox
[02:06] MSS- Exodus
[02:06] BigFree- I don't know about what percentages would seem fair nathan, this game is realtively new to me as far as dealing with humans versus the AI.
[02:06] MSS- To us all
[02:08] nbarclay- Vox had seven cities when they attacked us, one of which is presumably almost totally corrupt. What they would be giving up under Beta's proposal would be the one almost totally corrupt city and a fair amount of territory they could have expanded into.
[02:08] BigFree- I mean, I know how I wouild treat the AI in such a situation, because I know the consequences of the game mechanics. But if GS were to assume that the rest of the teams would behave or rect in a similar manner, then you might be surprised as to what reations you will get. There's too many human emeotions playing into this right now. It is very volitile for both Vox and GS.
[02:09] nbarclay- How many tears did RP shed over Lux's removal from Bob?
[02:09] BigFree- I suspect that Vox will garner some sympathy.
[02:10] BigFree- Trip is a different story altogether
[02:10] BigFree- plus he was taken out by a non-native Team
[02:11] nbarclay- And if a civ on another continent wants to give Vox a new home, we can live with that.
[02:11] BigFree- I wasn't even involved in the begining, but I remeber all the teams saying they were out to get Lux.
[02:12] BigFree- I can almost guarantee you that will not be on Bob
[02:12] MSS- Thats just it... We get the message"let vox live, but not over here..."
[02:12] MSS- Wel we want vox to live, but not over here
[02:13] BigFree- reminds me of the acronym NIMBY
[02:13] MSS- ??
[02:13] BigFree- Not In My Back Yard
[02:13] MSS- yep
[02:14] BigFree- when ever the governmnet has a new industrila project, the whole town wnat it to be built, but not anywhere near them though.
[02:14] MSS- In short If you want vox to live, you need to help find them a home, because it will not be on outr contenten
[02:14] BigFree- I will pass that along
[02:15] MSS- we were will give them time (I hope) but that window is closing, faster now because of beta
[02:15] BigFree- will you continue to attack this turn?
[02:15] MSS- I would think so, nathan?
[02:16] BigFree- I think that would be bad form if you are trying to let them leave...
[02:16] MSS- hmm
[02:16] nbarclay- Vox has our proposal for a cease-fire to give them a chance for orderly evacuation.
[02:17] BigFree- what do thye have to do to activate that?
[02:17] nbarclay- And will have had it for about a day and a half by the time we play our turn.
[02:17] nbarclay- If they give us some kind of positive response, I agree that it would be bad form to attack.
[02:17] MSS- is it the summary you sent nathan?
[02:17] nbarclay- Yes.
[02:18] MSS- I wonder if we need to reword it to give them a clearer trigger ?
[02:18] MSS- It will be a hard sell to teh team after the PR smear
[02:19] BigFree- nathan, can you post in that thread that you intend to give peace a chance for at least 10 turns until Vox can leave the Continent?
[02:19] nbarclay- Agreed. Beta did a lot of damage to our willingness to let Vox evacuate unmolested.
[02:20] MSS- ??
[02:20] nbarclay- Our giving Vox that time would have to be contingent on Vox's disbanding the forces they won't be taking with them. (That would solve our security problems so we could get back to buildng, and Vox could use the shields to build galleys and settlers.)
[02:20] nbarclay- That was part of what I sent Vox.
[02:21] BigFree- ah
[02:21] nbarclay- (Or something to that effect.)
[02:21] BigFree- that would mean that they would have to move all troops into cities, are they in cities now or mostly outside?
[02:21] nbarclay- If Vox maintains its current force levels and we can't be sure they aren't building more, we can't safely stop our own troop production.
[02:21] nbarclay- Mostly outside cities right now, I think.
[02:21] MSS- That is the trigger.
[02:22] BigFree- so they would need a few turns to get them all inside
[02:22] BigFree- and disbanded
[02:22] MSS- Disbad forces, allow a couple of war chariots to sit their territory and observe...
[02:22] BigFree- true
[02:23] nbarclay- They could start disbanding immediately. That would be enough to put things on the right path.
[02:23] BigFree- that would be a part of the program if I were running things
[02:23] BigFree- ok, who plays first from here? You or Vox?
[02:23] MSS- True... the gesture of good faith should have been to disband teh worthess immortals (1 hp)
[02:23] nbarclay- Vox just sent their turn a while ago, so we're up next.
[02:23] BigFree- hmm
[02:24] BigFree- so you would have to begin the "escort" of their troops then this turn
[02:24] BigFree- post a meesage, in public, that this is what you want them to do
[02:25] nbarclay- It's not a matter of escorting troops. It's just a matter of our not attacking them and their not attacking us while they head to suitable sites to disband.
[02:25] BigFree- I agree
[02:25] MSS- We wold likely have to eat a 24 hr penelty to make it work, I think. No biggie...
[02:25] BigFree- what penatly?
[02:25] MSS- oh the silly counter thing...
[02:25] BigFree- ah
[02:25] BigFree- 12:4P1
[02:25] MSS- no biggie
[02:26] BigFree- to the counter
[02:26] MSS- heh
[02:26] BigFree- **** ahppens
[02:26] nbarclay- Lego still has the save, so there should be time if we take the full allowed time for our turn.
[02:26] nbarclay- At least if we move quickly.
[02:26] BigFree- for what nathan, i'm not sure I follow?
[02:26] MSS- true... Should we take this to the team?
[02:27] nbarclay- Time for Vox to decide that they'd rather accept our evacuation idea than have the fighting continue, if that's what they want.
[02:27] MSS- or go ahead and "make it so"
[02:27] BigFree- I see, you need time to take it to your people
[02:28] MSS- Put it this way, It is the smaering that we can eliminate if we eliminate vox...
[02:28] MSS- a little heavy handed granted
[02:28] MSS- but it dosent make us feel ssafe..
[02:29] MSS- to have that eliment in teh game
[02:29] MSS- hehe I type worse than you BF
[02:29] BigFree- I just hope this can be worked out, I think Vox will go for it.
[02:29] BigFree- I don't think so MSS!
[02:29] MSS- I rather it did as well
[02:30] BigFree- I need one of those voice driven word processors
[02:30] MSS- There is still the issue of finding VOX a home, But we need the help of ALL the other civs
[02:31] MSS- voice recog.. drool
[02:31] BigFree- true, mabye lego can help ther, but Bob is not an optiopn,you saw what happened last time
[02:31] nbarclay- Yes, we did.
[02:31] BigFree- Lego is huge
[02:32] MSS- Sure, but the way I see it if the world want sVox to live, the world can make room. We are doing our part by giving the the chance...
[02:32] BigFree- I suspect it is bigger than Bob
[02:32] MSS- we do too
[02:32] nbarclay- According to Aeson's figures, there's no way Lego's continent is bigger than Bob.
[02:33] BigFree- MSS, will you join the PTWDG II?
[02:33] nbarclay- But bigger than our continent, very possibly.
[02:33] nbarclay- (Of course Aeson is just interpolating based on the number of land tiles that "ought" to be on this map.)
[02:34] BigFree- There could be nuances to Lego land that does show in Aeson's figure, like land bridges and such.
[02:34] MSS- This one game is tough enough on me. I just had a baby and Ia m remodeling my kitchen. I have to relegate myself to lurker right now...
[02:34] MSS- thanks for teh invite...
[02:34] BigFree- A baby, really, you are female or did someone else have it for you?
[02:34] MSS- My wife did, yess
[02:34] BigFree- Congrats
[02:35] BigFree- 12:4D1ance:
[02:35] BigFree- I love Kids
[02:35] MSS- though I could have fun with that..
[02:35] MSS- May 1st, no sleep for daddies
[02:35] BigFree- The PTWDG II will be just about fun, not winning
[02:35] MSS- though my chance is slipping away
[02:35] BigFree- LOL
[02:35] BigFree- Daddy is a full time job
[02:36] BigFree- is it your first?
[02:36] MSS- Oh I know, I just cant get tooattached to anything untill august
[02:36] MSS- yes
[02:36] BigFree- cool
[02:36] MSS- my one and hopefully only
[02:36] MSS- she has three others though..
[02:36] BigFree- I'm in school to be a teacher; kids are just the wonder of the world to me.
[02:36] BigFree- wow!
[02:37] MSS- arent they....
[02:37] MSS- insta family, just add awter
[02:37] MSS- water...
[02:37] BigFree- it's ammaxzing how much we love our children
[02:37] MSS- h out them there is no tomorrow...
[02:37] BigFree- so true
[02:38] MSS- instameaning
[02:38] BigFree- Ihave none myself, but I'm uncle to 14 nieces and nephews
[02:38] MSS- WOW big extended family
[02:38] BigFree- I'm "Uncle Kenny"
[02:38] nbarclay- Wow! That must be fun.
[02:38] BigFree- yeah, my mom had 5 kids
[02:39] BigFree- and then they went beserk
[02:39] MSS- hehe thell do that to ya..
[02:39] BigFree- must have been faulty condoms in the area
[02:39] MSS- some punk with a pin
[02:39] BigFree- LOL
[02:40] BigFree- dang, it's late here
[02:40] MSS- Well I need to sleep while I have the chance
[02:40] BigFree- 2:40 AM
[02:40] MSS- you PDT?
[02:40] BigFree- yes
[02:40] BigFree- California
[02:40] MSS- I live in portland or
[02:40] BigFree- nice
[02:40] nbarclay- I'm CDT, Alabama. You think it's late there?
[02:40] BigFree- LOL
[02:40] BigFree- ok, you got me
[02:40] MSS- animal
[02:41] nbarclay- Fortunately, I had a nice nap before I saw Beta's message.
[02:41] BigFree- HAHA
[02:41] MSS- I think we did some good here. Are we scheduled for tomorrow as well?
[02:41] BigFree- I'm glad you guys contacted me
[02:41] MSS- me 2
[02:41] nbarclay- Agreed.
[02:42] BigFree- Now, let's pray for peace
[02:42] MSS- oooooooommmmmmmmmm
[02:42] BigFree- LOL
[02:42] BigFree- I had to sound that out!
[02:43] MSS- heheh
[02:43] MSS- Hey I am getting up in 3 hours,
[02:43] BigFree- 4:15 minutes for me
[02:44] BigFree- haha, i get more
[02:44] nbarclay- Shall we sign off, then?
[02:44] BigFree- yes
[02:44] BigFree- zzzzzzz
[02:44] BigFree- take care you two
[02:44] nbarclay- Bye.
[02:44] BigFree- I will be around tommorow as well
[02:44] MSS- I am gonna sign off. Pleas let your team know that we are working on it and dont give in to the maddness....
[02:44] BigFree- sure
[02:44] BigFree- NP
[02:44] MSS- tahnks...
[02:45] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Asleep
[02:45] nbarclay- Hey, I thought Asleep was on our team.
[02:45] MSS- hehe... Nathan, can you get this log?
[02:45] nbarclay- Yes.
[02:45] MSS- thanks.
[02:46] MSS- g'nite
[02:46] * MSS has left #ptwtalks
[02:46] * nbarclay has quit IRC (Quit: IceChat IRC Client - Download at www.IceChat.net)
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Basically I tried to play dumb.
I wanted to try and get Vox one turn to get troops inside of Elipolis before either peace is really decalered or Vox says "hell no we won't go!" In either case it gives Vox more options and doesn't hurt our standing with GS since I am just trying to 'mediate' the peace. I also set in the heads the idea of a peac keeping force on Estonia, so that if RP lands or Horsemen there, they will already be prepared for it.
I thought I played it pretty neutral towards anything specific, but made it sound like peace for Vox is the best choice for GS, even if it is just peace for them to vacate, which I hope that they do not do. 
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Chat with vondrack of Lego
quote:
Session Start: Mon Jun 23 16:10:46 2003
Session Ident: vondrack
[16:10] Session Ident: vondrack (~vondrack@pha-81-27-194-6.tesnetwork.cz)
[16:10] vondrack= BF, u there?
[16:10] BigFree= yes
[16:11] vondrack= just wanted to check something
[16:11] BigFree= just making posts
[16:11] BigFree= sure
[16:11] vondrack= have you, guys, noted how much GoW and ND rose up in the powergraph over the last 2-3 turns?
[16:12] BigFree= no, we hadn't, but I do not get the saves regualry. It could be GoW got Chiv and sold to ND and both upgraded theri Horsemen.
[16:12] vondrack= quite likely, yes
[16:12] vondrack= I was playing our last turn
[16:12] vondrack= and I am used to going through all the Fx screens
[16:13] BigFree= If both have it, it is a concern for RP
[16:13] vondrack= F8 stroke me - they must have upgraded a LOT
[16:13] BigFree= dang I will have to bring this up to our team immediately
[16:14] vondrack= yep...
[16:14] vondrack= btw... is it us waiting for you or you waiting for us on the Theology deal?
[16:14] vondrack= I think we spoke about that
[16:14] vondrack= but cannot rememeber what the result was
[16:14] vondrack= and if there was any
[16:16] BigFree= lol
[16:17] BigFree= there was no result yet
[16:17] vondrack= oops
[16:17] vondrack= my fault then, I assume
[16:17] BigFree= my team did not exactly like the conditions
[16:17] vondrack= you seem to be the very last team we have no deal on Theology...
[16:17] vondrack= aha - was there any consensus on "acceptable" conditions?
[16:18] BigFree= less money and no conditions on what we can build
[16:18] vondrack= hmmm... I do not think we would give up the no-Sistine, but we could accomodate you on money, I guess
[16:18] BigFree= do you mind if I invite Togas
[16:18] vondrack= no prob
[16:19] vondrack= but we will probably have to go to a chatroom
[16:19] BigFree= sure, I will set one up
[16:19] vondrack= k
[16:20] BigFree= #Happy Smile
Session Start: Mon Jun 23 16:19:43 2003
Session Ident: #Happy
[16:19] * Now talking in #Happy
[16:19] * Retrieving #Happy info...
[16:19] * BigFree sets mode: +nps
[16:19] * BigFree sets mode: +k Smile
[16:20] * vondrack has joined #Happy
[16:20] vondrack= yup, here
[16:20] BigFree= yeah
[16:20] BigFree= I love mIRC
[16:20] * Togas has joined #happy
[16:20] Togas= hello
[16:21] vondrack= hello, Togas!
[16:21] * BigFree sets mode: +oo Togas vondrack
[16:21] Togas= Vond, you oughta join Team Sunshine
[16:21] BigFree= we were talking about the Theology proposal Lego made to us
[16:21] Togas= which one?
[16:21] vondrack= nah... no more DGs for me, thank you
[16:21] vondrack= getting tired of them a bit... too much agenda for me
[16:21] BigFree= its not a busy game, just for fun, we would not give you a job.
[16:22] vondrack= all these late night chats
[16:22] Togas= it's a silly game anyhow. No stress
[16:22] BigFree= jus a forum to read when you felt like it.
[16:22] vondrack= see, I have this problem
[16:22] vondrack= I am getting easily TOO involved
[16:22] vondrack=
[16:22] Togas= Vond, perhaps you would like to join the FAM team and take BigFree's spot?
[16:22] BigFree= see, I can give you access, but you do not have to post
[16:23] vondrack= no, please - I know I am so lame in resisting temptations
[16:23] BigFree= LOL
[16:23] vondrack= anyway - Togas, I told BigFree that GoW & ND rose in power a lot
[16:23] vondrack= over the last 2-3 turns
[16:23] vondrack= noticed that while playing our last turn
[16:24] Togas= we're getting close to Chivalry. That's when things will get messy.
[16:24] vondrack= yes
[16:25] vondrack= we suspect GoW & ND acquired Chivalry
[16:25] vondrack= that would explain that steep increase in their power
[16:25] Togas= it's possible, but on the same turn?
[16:25] vondrack= strange, I agree - but see the graph for yourself
[16:26] vondrack= it kinda stroke me... and made me wonder what's going on
[16:26] vondrack= anyway, I may be seeing ghosts
[16:28] BigFree= They both have recently built cities too
[16:29] vondrack= right, could be it, too - frankly, GoW would be supposed to tell us they'd be getting close to Chivalry
[16:29] vondrack= and there was no word from them
[16:29] vondrack= who knows...
[16:30] BigFree= I'm looking at the lst 3 saves, and the cost for Chiv did not drop
[16:30] BigFree= so, it's unlikely they got it
[16:30] Togas= we've given them some leeway with their current revolution, but we'll grab MZ and get him to talk to us next chance we get
[16:31] BigFree= perhaps they both have built cities and both have upgraded some other units.
[16:31] vondrack= hm, then it may be their cities just expanded or something
[16:31] vondrack= mind you - all I saw was just the powergraph
[16:31] Togas= mind if we ask ... what's going to happen to Vox?
[16:31] vondrack= no word from anywhere regarding anything
[16:31] vondrack= Vox?
[16:31] Togas= I mean, GS keeps talking about resettlement like it's a done deal
[16:32] vondrack= most probably, they will go to exile
[16:32] Togas= where are they going?
[16:32] vondrack= yes,
[16:32] BigFree= "Serect Island"
[16:32] Togas= Fantasy Island?
[16:32] vondrack= I hope I am not breaching any secrecy clause here
[16:32] vondrack= they will go to Legos Minor
[16:32] Togas= Cool
[16:32] vondrack= that's part of our landmass
[16:32] vondrack= cool?
[16:32] vondrack= do you like the idea?
[16:32] BigFree= North?
[16:32] Togas= Cool of you guys to do that.
[16:33] vondrack= yes, the Northern part
[16:33] Togas= That north-western peninsula.
[16:33] BigFree= ok, sounds like you guys have some new life long friends
[16:33] vondrack= it's mostly mountains, no fresh water - I would not really want to start there
[16:33] vondrack= but they have little choice
[16:33] BigFree= LOL
[16:34] BigFree= Are you giving them a city there
[16:34] vondrack= we believe it's better to have Voxes alive than dead
[16:34] BigFree= or do they sail there
[16:34] vondrack= both, I believe
[16:34] BigFree= ah
[16:34] vondrack= I mean
[16:34] vondrack= city, sure
[16:34] vondrack= sail, most probably
[16:34] BigFree= right, they said they have Galleys to load
[16:34] vondrack= though GS is developing some sort of smart way to "hopping" them there in one big transfer
[16:35] vondrack= strange enough - GS seem to be genuinely keen on
[16:35] vondrack= getting rid of Voxes quietly
[16:35] Togas= wonder why?
[16:35] vondrack= they signed this peace treaty and now they are even offering "expertise"
[16:36] vondrack= helping Voxes to resettle
[16:36] vondrack= perhaps they realized their big PR problem
[16:36] vondrack= and try doing something about it
[16:36] BigFree= exatly
[16:36] Togas= We've been too helpful to them about it
[16:36] BigFree= they realized the nightmare they had
[16:36] vondrack= LoL
[16:36] vondrack= yes, too helpful
[16:37] vondrack= but then... it's supposed to be just a game, is it not?
[16:37] vondrack= it was getting to a situation it was no longer fun
[16:37] Togas= true, and I just got tired of having to suffer through their bad PR
[16:37] BigFree= not that opinons wil change over time, GS will still be seen as the "meanies"
[16:37] vondrack= yes
[16:37] vondrack= sigh
[16:37] BigFree= you can't changed a zebras stripes
[16:37] BigFree= without skinning him, that i!
[16:37] vondrack= I know I did go quite far last time, during that "Lego-GS cold war" )
[16:38] vondrack= but I got somehow turned up by how that public thread was developing
[16:38] Togas= The public thread really went south in a hurry.
[16:38] vondrack= yup
[16:39] BigFree= it really did, it was shameful
[16:39] vondrack= I even talked to some GS members in private
[16:39] BigFree= hehe
[16:39] vondrack= they really DID take that very personally
[16:39] vondrack= dunno why
[16:39] BigFree= they contacted me too, asking for advice to improve relations.
[16:39] vondrack= I perceived that as part of the game
[16:39] vondrack= this "public opinion" bullshit... )
[16:39] vondrack= as if anyone cared...
[16:40] BigFree= lol
[16:40] BigFree= true
[16:41] BigFree= but it does say alot for how GS hard targets on theri asses when the game started nad got reinforced when they acted as the did in public threads
[16:41] vondrack= right
[16:41] BigFree= they id nothing to help themselves
[16:42] vondrack= they seem to be really deep into their "honour code"
[16:42] BigFree= HAHA
[16:42] BigFree= they are deeply into wining
[16:42] vondrack= not exactly sure what that is, as they did not tell anyone
[16:42] vondrack= I am not trying to ridicule that at this moment
[16:42] Togas= It's really a matter of egos and being "right." They are very consumed with being right and will argue the matter to death.
[16:42] vondrack= they may be honest
[16:42] vondrack= but they do it the wrong way
[16:42] vondrack= yes, agreed with you, Togas
[16:43] Togas= I need to head out. I'm at work now, closing things up, and need to go shopping for dinner.
[16:43] vondrack= k, see you!
[16:43] BigFree= lets talk about that Theology deal or other tech deals vond
[16:44] Togas= see you later
[16:44] vondrack= ah, Theo!
[16:44] BigFree= bye
[16:44] vondrack= forgot about it again
[16:44] BigFree= lol
[16:44] vondrack= bye, Togas!
[16:44] Togas= bye
[16:44] * Togas has left #happy
[16:44] vondrack= well - as I said, the no Sistine clause is unlikely to be lifted
[16:44] BigFree= we are researching it opurselves right now
[16:45] vondrack= we are short of luxuries and the Sistine's seems to be vital to us
[16:45] BigFree= for like the last 6-8 turns, I dont remeber exactly
[16:45] vondrack= hm... any prearranged deals?
[16:45] BigFree= no deals yet
[16:45] vondrack= ok, I will be honest
[16:45] BigFree= but we would consider letting you have the monoploy on it
[16:46] vondrack= you will get none - all others signed deals with us
[16:46] vondrack= you are the last ones
[16:46] vondrack= so - I guess it would really be better to come to some sort of a reasonable deal
[16:46] BigFree= everyone else already signed "do not build" agreements?
[16:47] vondrack= everyone else is getting Theo from us
[16:47] vondrack= that's all I can say, I believe
[16:47] BigFree= 12:4)1
[16:48] BigFree= well if other teams can build it, then why exclude RP?
[16:48] vondrack= it actually works both ways
[16:49] vondrack= you know it's better to focus on a different wonder
[16:49] vondrack= we know we can focus on this one
[16:49] vondrack= and frankly
[16:49] vondrack= with the number of luxuries you have access to
[16:49] vondrack= we thought that you would not be eager to invest 600 shilelds into something that needs 160-shield cathedrals to work
[16:50] vondrack= *shields
[16:50] vondrack= which we seem to have no choice but to go for
[16:50] vondrack= little choice
[16:50] vondrack= not no choice
[16:50] vondrack= all you actually need is marketplaces
[16:50] vondrack= I wish it was so easy for us
[16:51] vondrack= anyways - no intention to sound like I am whining here
[16:51] BigFree= true, we do have a few luxeries; but we are Religeous, so Cathedrals are cheaper for us. Sistine has been on the table for a long time now.
[16:51] vondrack= ah, forgot of that
[16:51] vondrack= religious, right
[16:52] BigFree= plus it helps our GA, If we need one
[16:52] BigFree= We could guarantee not to go for Bachs
[16:52] vondrack=
[16:52] vondrack= nice
[16:52] BigFree= or even promise a permanent lux deal
[16:54] vondrack= I am afraid that will probably not work... we are not really hard pressed for gold or anything, so trading Theo needs to bring some kind of a benefit to us
[16:55] vondrack= all we can think of ATM is the no-wonder clause
[16:55] BigFree= but you do need luxuries
[16:55] vondrack= everybody does
[16:55] BigFree= 12:4)1
[16:56] BigFree= so, would not a combined deal of luxeries and gold get Theology?
[16:56] BigFree= I mean the slider can used if you have excess gold
[16:56] vondrack= btw.. is Oracle not religious?
[16:57] BigFree= I would think that it is
[16:58] vondrack= I know it's a pretty lame wonder, but as far as the GA-trigger effect goes, it would be much cheaper to spend 200 shields on the Oracle than 600 shields on Sistine...
[16:58] BigFree= HAHA
[16:58] BigFree= yes, since it is defucnt with the advent of Theo
[16:58] vondrack= right - I pointed out I was talking about the GA-trigger effect only
[16:59] BigFree= sure
[17:00] BigFree= lets table Theoo for a bit
[17:00] BigFree= do you have any other techs to offer for sale?
[17:00] vondrack= sure, np
[17:00] vondrack= not ATM
[17:01] BigFree= are you sure
[17:01] vondrack= and you? probably not... since you are doing Theo yourselves
[17:01] vondrack= sure - re: techs?
[17:01] BigFree= yes
[17:01] vondrack= yes, sure
[17:01] vondrack= we do not have any other tech for sale
[17:01] vondrack= just a minute
[17:01] BigFree= I can think of Republic, unless it is not for sale.
[17:02] vondrack= I am just checking it
[17:02] vondrack= hmmm - seems Republic would be available for sale, yes
[17:02] vondrack= completely forgot about it
[17:03] vondrack= the NDA has been over for quite some time
[17:03] BigFree= well, we are "browsing" right now for tehs
[17:03] vondrack= so - sorry, yes, Republic would be available
[17:04] BigFree= what kind of sdiscount price does Lego have for its most favored nation trading Civ?
[17:04] vondrack= BigFree!
[17:04] BigFree= what
[17:04] vondrack= you do not think of getting two techs basically for free, do you?
[17:04] BigFree= hmm?
[17:05] vondrack= sorry - I was thinking you would like to get Rep+Theo for no-Sistine
[17:05] BigFree= 12;4)1
[17:05] vondrack= reading too much into it, I guess
[17:05] vondrack= or not?
[17:05] BigFree= lol, i can ask my team though
[17:05] BigFree= Rep+Theo for no-Sistine?? thats it?
[17:06] vondrack= if you "can" ask your team, I would "have" to ask mine
[17:06] BigFree= I might be able to get them to go Bachs instead
[17:06] vondrack= it sounds horrible... but Rep is old stuff... hmm...
[17:06] BigFree= truthfully, we have prebuilt for Sistine
[17:06] vondrack= really?
[17:07] BigFree= do not tell anyone though
[17:07] vondrack= lips sealed
[17:07] BigFree= good
[17:07] BigFree= I would be lynched for telling anyone
[17:07] BigFree= Did you notice our Palace "jump"
[17:07] vondrack= yes, we did
[17:08] BigFree= 12:4)1
[17:08] BigFree= my plan
[17:08] BigFree= workewd very nice
[17:08] vondrack= good idea - Madrid was poorly located
[17:08] BigFree= yes
[17:08] BigFree= we saw immediate results
[17:08] vondrack= I can imagine that
[17:09] BigFree= so, if my team wont go for the Theo-Rep combo for No-Sistine....what is the price for Rep alone?
[17:10] vondrack= no idea - we haven't discussed that option at all
[17:10] BigFree= ah
[17:10] vondrack= I would have to post and ask others
[17:10] BigFree= about...
[17:10] BigFree= in you opinion only
[17:10] vondrack= as you could see - I did not even realize we were able to trade it
[17:10] BigFree= nothing official
[17:11] vondrack= BF, I am not going to say any figure here
[17:11] BigFree= sure, np
[17:11] vondrack= I would prefer to see that no-wonder deal come through
[17:11] vondrack= so let's try that first
[17:11] BigFree= I understand
[17:11] BigFree= I will push that for you
[17:11] vondrack= great, thanks
[17:11] BigFree= Bachs would still be nice
[17:11] BigFree= not a bad consulation
[17:12] vondrack= consulation?
[17:12] vondrack= ah, consolation!
[17:12] vondrack= right
[17:12] BigFree= to the Sistine we are prebuilding
[17:12] BigFree= sorry
[17:12] BigFree= typpos' galore fom BigFree
[17:12] vondrack= but that needs Edu and Music Theory, right?
[17:13] BigFree= yes
[17:13] BigFree= 12:4(1
[17:13] BigFree= looks as if it might change our plans
[17:13] BigFree= that why team might not like it
[17:13] vondrack= understood
[17:13] BigFree= hmm
[17:13] BigFree= aren't you doing Education?
[17:13] vondrack= yes, we are
[17:14] BigFree= hmm
[17:14] BigFree= since we are part wat the theo now...
[17:14] BigFree= *way
[17:14] BigFree= maybe we can do a further deal
[17:14] BigFree= to guarantee you Sistine
[17:15] BigFree= you follow me?
[17:15] vondrack= yes
[17:15] vondrack= to guarantee us Sistine - and?
[17:16] BigFree= How about Rep-Theo-Educ for No Sistine-plus some gold
[17:16] vondrack= uhhhh... BF, you still aware of who you are talking with?
[17:16] BigFree= LOL
[17:16] BigFree= yes
[17:17] BigFree= its justthat we are pretty mush dead set on building the Sistine
[17:17] BigFree= it would take something drastic to change it
[17:17] vondrack= Rep+Theo for no-Sist sounded like a doable deal, but this "new" idea - well, that's not doable
[17:17] vondrack= we can agree to a free race to Sistine then
[17:18] BigFree= Ican take both proposals to my team, your and mine and see what they say
[17:18] BigFree= maybe we can offer you a free lux also
[17:18] BigFree= for x number of turns
[17:19] vondrack= ok, let's take the ideas to our teams and see
[17:19] BigFree= That way in the future you cna still trade your two for another two luxeries
[17:19] vondrack= sorry - getting really tired here
[17:19] BigFree= no problem
[17:20] BigFree= RP really wnats to work with lego more in the future
[17:20] BigFree= more than GS
[17:20] BigFree= more than GoW
[17:20] BigFree= more than anyother team
[17:20] vondrack= good... I was almost getting scared that you might like ND more than us )
[17:20] BigFree= HAHA
[17:21] BigFree= I will talk to you later then
[17:21] vondrack= ok, then - good night, BF!
[17:21] BigFree= good night
[17:21] vondrack= take care
[17:21] vondrack= bye
[17:21] BigFree= you too
[17:21] * vondrack has left #Happy
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Hehe, I feel so dirty after this one. I basically told vondrack that we are already pre-buiding the Sistine Chappel! I did this to gain leverage, and boy did it work.
Vondrack has agreed (but needs his team's approval to make it an official proposal) to Giving us The Republic and Theology for promising not to build The Sistine Chappel.
I went in also wanting to find out a price for just The Republic, but he did not have a price and would not quote me one until he checked with his team. It seems they never checked to see if we had it or would be interested in it.
I told Vondrack that RP may go for this deal, onthe premise that I could talk RP into build St Bach's Cathedral instead. He brought up, thankfully, that that requies both Education and Music Theory in addition to Theology.
I then submitted a deal, a proposal in which he got cold too, of The Republic, Theology, and Education for a "No Sistine Chappel" promise + some gold. It ended with him saying that he would take both proposals to his team.
It's a steal to get The Republic and Theology for just a promise of No Sistine. It's a bigger steal for including Education. I woul suggest that we offer 200 gold to seal the second deal.
We keep up the charade that we are in fact pre-building The Sistine Chappel and Lego could give us the world!
The reason this works like this is that Lego feels it REALLY needs The Sistine Chappel in order to make it in the game. They are luxury poor compared to us.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Hi Beta
Things are good. I hope you guys are doing ok....well, as 'ok' as you can considering the circumstances.
We'd like to be able to send you some of the gold on the turn we can trade for Engineering and the rest in gpt. Does that sound good? Otherwise, yes, the deal is still on.
I'm always available for chat Beta, just find me in the ISDG channel and we can go from there. Spain wishes you the best of luck with things.
BigFree
quote:
Greetings BF. How are things?
Life at Vox is interesting, to say the least, but a peace plan is reached, and an orderly wrap-up of our affairs on Estonia is underway.
I would like to review a deal discussed earlier, and which we at Vox thought had been agreed to. Here are the details:
quote:
Trade Agreement Between Spain and Vox Controli
In exchange for the technology of engineering, to be delivered as 'accepted' to Spanish RolepLay by Vox Controli on or before the date 34 turns from this date, Spain agrees to pay the sum of 200 gold, payable as 10 gold per turn, to commence on the turn after the conclusion of the current 8gpt payment for a previous deal, and to run for a period of 20 turns.
Signed ........ Togas...............for Spain
Signed ........ BetaHound ..... for Vox Controli
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We are assuming this deal is still a ''go". We have not heard anything to the contary. And Engineering will be up shortly.
Please let me know. Many thanks!
How are the tensions on Bob these days? Everything fairly quiet?
Regards ... Beta.
ps - if you want to chat - just let me know. Thanks.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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quote:
Hi BF. Good to hear from you. yes - maybe we can get together for a chat this weekend.
And yes - we are doing OK. This is actually an interesting game experience as I have never 'wrapped-up' a civ before. We will come out of it with the bulk of our population, a smallish but well trained military, and a reputation for the smallest civ to have caused the most commotion in the game so far.
As to the deal. Yes - gpt as part of the payment is fine by us. Engineering is up in 8 or 9 turns - maybe it is 10. Will let you know when we play the next turn.
Take care ... Beta.
quote:
BigFree wrote on 27-06-2003 05:33:
Hi Beta
Things are good. I hope you guys are doing ok....well, as 'ok' as you can considering the circumstances.
We'd like to be able to send you some of the gold on the turn we can trade for Engineering and the rest in gpt. Does that sound good? Otherwise, yes, the deal is still on.
I'm always available for chat Beta, just find me in the ISDG channel and we can go from there. Spain wishes you the best of luck with things.
BigFree
quote:
Greetings BF. How are things?
Life at Vox is interesting, to say the least, but a peace plan is reached, and an orderly wrap-up of our affairs on Estonia is underway.
I would like to review a deal discussed earlier, and which we at Vox thought had been agreed to. Here are the details:
[QUOTE]
Trade Agreement Between Spain and Vox Controli
In exchange for the technology of engineering, to be delivered as 'accepted' to Spanish RolepLay by Vox Controli on or before the date 34 turns from this date, Spain agrees to pay the sum of 200 gold, payable as 10 gold per turn, to commence on the turn after the conclusion of the current 8gpt payment for a previous deal, and to run for a period of 20 turns.
Signed ........ Togas...............for Spain
Signed ........ BetaHound ..... for Vox Controli
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We are assuming this deal is still a ''go". We have not heard anything to the contary. And Engineering will be up shortly.
Please let me know. Many thanks!
How are the tensions on Bob these days? Everything fairly quiet?
Regards ... Beta.
ps - if you want to chat - just let me know. Thanks.
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[/quote]
quote:
Hi BF. I just confirmed the timining - 10 turns from our 250bc turn for engineering. ...Beta.
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CiverDan
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Judging by the last few turns, Vox probably still has a fair amount of fight left. I suspect that in order for GS to go for the kill, they will drain a lot of resources from empire building e.g. buildings. Hopefully that will constrain them somewhat. My real concern is Lego. They can expand on their landmass unchecked with minimal defense as they know no one was gonna attempt an intercontinent war as it would make the attacking party much to vulnerable. At some point we make need to think about trying to isolating lego diplomatically
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Chat with MasterZen of GoW
quote:
Session Start: Sun Jul 06 00:00:00 2003
Session Ident: #PTWDGConference
[01:49] * Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-64-236.we.client2.attbi.com) has joined #PTWDGConference
[02:41] * Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-64-236.we.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Quit: )
[03:10] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
[11:16] * Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-64-236.we.client2.attbi.com) has joined #PTWDGConference
[12:35] * BigFree|Away is now known as BigFree
[13:51] * Togas is now known as TogasIDLE
[13:52] * Retrieving #PTWDGConference info...
[13:53] * BigFree changes topic to 'Conference Room For ND-RP-GoW'
[13:53] * BigFree sets mode: +p
[14:25] * TogasIDLE is now known as Togas
[15:24] * Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-64-236.we.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Ping timeout)
[15:35] * MZ|SoccerGame (~raguil@dup-200-66-232-225.prodigy.net.mx) has joined #PTWDGConference
[15:35] MZ- what? no ND?
[15:35] BigFree- hey
[15:35] BigFree- nope
[15:35] BigFree- we detected that ND has Chiv
[15:35] BigFree- they had the cash?
[15:36] MZ- haven't seen the save, what year?
[15:36] BigFree- 150 BC
[15:36] MZ- and how do you know ND has it?
[15:36] BigFree- can't say right now
[15:36] BigFree- but power ratings went up
[15:36] BigFree- and militayr strngth changed
[15:37] MZ- they went up?
[15:37] BigFree- yep
[15:37] BigFree- to us they did
[15:37] BigFree- and cost for Chiv wnet down
[15:37] BigFree- it all adds up to ND having Chiv
[15:38] BigFree- we can only assume that GoW sold it to them
[15:38] BigFree- or they researched it
[15:38] MZ- we did some upgrades... not much, like 4
[15:38] MZ- "just in case"
[15:38] BigFree- right
[15:38] BigFree- I'm taling about ND though
[15:38] BigFree- they must have done some too
[15:39] MZ- hmm... I'll have to check their power rating in the last save
[15:39] BigFree- did you sell to ND
[15:40] MZ- if we'd be 500g richer we'd have upgraded much more than 4
[15:40] BigFree- not unless you wanted to reamin' under the radar'
[15:41] BigFree- I wouldn't upgrade all until I wanted to attack
[15:41] MZ- yes, but being "under the radar" would incite an attack on us
[15:41] MZ- we don't want to get attacked, even WITH Riders
[15:41] BigFree- yes, maybe, but a counter with Riders is devastating
[15:41] MZ- not as much as an attack by Riders
[15:41] BigFree- it also prevents others from military build up to keep relative strengths
[15:42] BigFree- come on MZ, we both know how it works
[15:42] BigFree-
[15:42] MZ- one thing is the ISDG, one thing is the PTWDG
[15:42] MZ- we are not Apolyton
[15:42] BigFree- the starts work on both
[15:42] BigFree- *Strats
[15:42] BigFree- it is a solid strat
[15:42] MZ- we have a more-powerful neighbor to the south, not the case in the ISDG
[15:43] BigFree- right, they think you are weak, you keep them thinking that
[15:43] MZ- yes, but then they'll get ideas...
[15:43] MZ- with CDG we don't care because we can kick their ass, but GoW??
[15:43] BigFree- they keep more forces to their South than their North
[15:43] BigFree- I'm talikng of ND here
[15:44] MZ- are you sure? we got some ND horsies sitting on mountains up there
[15:44] BigFree- If you get ND to concentrate on its South, you can swoop into the North
[15:44] MZ- we'd do that anyway
[15:44] MZ- what we DON'T want them is to attack
[15:44] BigFree- Yes, I know you would
[15:45] MZ- and if we're still "weak" to them, with Ansars... you get the picture
[15:45] BigFree- but would GoW tell RP when it plans to attack ND?
[15:45] MZ- "when" and "if"
[15:45] BigFree- sure
[15:46] MZ- next ~10 turns will be vital...we'll see if **** breaks loose
[15:46] BigFree- You know that that I know that if ND and GoW has their respective UU's; they will be used
[15:46] MZ- if they have Chiv and start upgrading, we'll do too, and we'll sell you Chiv real damn cheap if war breaks out
[15:46] MZ- so keep your horsies near your barracks
[15:46] BigFree- do we have your word on that?
[15:47] MZ- unless you plan on using it to gang up on us too... :P
[15:47] BigFree- LOL
[15:47] BigFree- no
[15:47] BigFree- we plan on helping you
[15:47] BigFree- but we need to plan
[15:47] BigFree- We need to formalize an alliance
[15:47] MZ- if nothing happens in 10 turns, we start planning...
[15:48] BigFree- in 10 turns our NAp is already expired
[15:48] BigFree- we want something before then
[15:48] MZ- really? when does it expire..
[15:48] BigFree- turn 109 I think
[15:48] MZ- hmm... need to check. we track turns by the year, not the turn. I think we should change that :P
[15:48] BigFree- excuse; 129
[15:49] BigFree- or 128
[15:49] BigFree- which is 7-8 turns from now
[15:49] MZ- wait, do you have panag's IP?
[15:49] MZ- (that was tottally off-topic
[15:49] BigFree- 150 BC is turn 121
[15:49] BigFree- no, I don't
[15:50] BigFree- So, GoW is saying that you did not sell Chiv to ND?
[15:51] BigFree- or anyone else?
[15:52] MZ- if we sold it, where the hell would ND get the $$$ for upgrading??
[15:52] BigFree- I do not control their finances, maybe they have been hording gold for a long while
[15:52] BigFree- you are skirting the question though
[15:53] MZ- well they haven't been tech whoring either
[15:53] BigFree- can you answer yes or no?
[15:53] MZ- I said no, but you will still think it's a yes
[15:53] BigFree- no, I'll take your word
[15:54] MZ- and if we did?
[15:54] BigFree- if you did not sell to them, then they researched it
[15:54] BigFree- if you did, no biggie
[15:54] MZ- if anyone had 500g we'd sell it, we told you that
[15:54] BigFree- we just wnat to know if we can buy it too
[15:54] MZ- and we WILL sell it if only to avoid a future re-sell
[15:54] MZ- the legacy of GF...
[15:54] BigFree- right
[15:55] MZ- you'd do the same
[15:55] BigFree- we'd be willing not to trade it or sell it
[15:55] BigFree- since more than one Civ has it we thought you'd drop the price now
[15:55] MZ- look, I'm going to tell you the truth
[15:55] BigFree- ok
[15:55] MZ- I'm not at liberty to really say for the following reasons:
[15:56] MZ- and by saying this I KNOW you'll suspect we did sell i...
[15:56] MZ- Chivalry is a touchy tech
[15:56] MZ- especially now, and especially when the 2 civs which stand most to benefit from it are right besides one another (and potentially hostile)
[15:57] MZ- now, assuming we DID sell it, you'd find it very very suspicious that we sold it to our suppossed enemy
[15:58] MZ- when on the other hand we'd have a pretty good excuse to leech them dry before an attack
[15:58] BigFree- I'd rather think it was the latter
[15:59] BigFree- truly, I believe that
[15:59] MZ- on the other hand they could have researched it themselves
[15:59] MZ- which means they have spent turns on science and not on $$
[15:59] BigFree- not unless they did the 40 turn thing
[15:59] MZ- now also look at it this way, our upgrades are expensive
[15:59] MZ- 80g per upgrade
[15:59] MZ- that's 800g just to have 10 riders
[15:59] BigFree- right
[16:00] MZ- we reasearched Chiv, so we didn't spend all those turns financing ourselves
[16:00] BigFree- right
[16:00] MZ- and despite the fact we whored Feud, how much did that net us? no more than 200
[16:00] MZ- that's 3 upgrades
[16:00] BigFree- but with 500 gold....
[16:00] MZ- THAT's a lot
[16:01] MZ- and if ND did not reasearch, that means they've been hoarding gold
[16:01] BigFree- not for someone, like ND who may have went the 40 turn route
[16:01] MZ- they couldn't
[16:01] BigFree- why not
[16:01] MZ- they like everone else needs Feud for Chivalry
[16:02] MZ- and everyone got Feud not that long ago
[16:02] MZ- hasn't been 40 turns since that
[16:02] BigFree- then they did not reaseach it!
[16:02] BigFree- you sold to thme
[16:02] BigFree- that the only way
[16:02] MZ- of course not! how did we reasearch it?
[16:02] BigFree- maybe they are researching ENg
[16:02] MZ- we didn't go the 40 turn route
[16:02] BigFree- no, you didn't
[16:02] BigFree- you went straight for it
[16:03] MZ- so, that's my point. Why wouldn't they?
[16:03] MZ- neither of us could do the 40 turn route, we had to research it
[16:03] BigFree- ok,
[16:03] MZ- we got Feud before they did
[16:03] MZ- but they are a bigger empire
[16:03] BigFree- sure
[16:03] MZ- should be no surprise if we got a head start but still only beat them by say 2 turns
[16:03] BigFree- i'm saying that ND went to 40 turn route to Eng
[16:04] BigFree- and spent the cahs on Chiv
[16:04] BigFree- split cost with you
[16:04] MZ- let me put it this way. If we sold you Chiv right now, would we tell ND about it?
[16:05] BigFree- no, I suppose not
[16:05] BigFree- but they would find out
[16:05] MZ- then what makes you think we'd tell you? In both cases the one that has most to lose diplomatically speaking is us
[16:05] MZ- because the other team, be it ND or be it you, will think we're deceiving you by selling it to the enemy
[16:06] BigFree- MZ, if they gave you 500 gold for it, you did well and RP would not think bad of it
[16:06] BigFree- you recouped your costs, thats it
[16:06] BigFree- the only thinkg that concerns me
[16:06] MZ- that's what I'm trying to re-assure you: my "offical" answer is I am not at liberty to disclose if we did or if we didn't.
[16:06] BigFree- is that we don't have an alliance and our NAp expires in 8 turrns
[16:07] MZ- but please understand our reasons we would've and why we wouldn't have
[16:07] BigFree- I understand your points
[16:07] MZ- As i said, if the **** breaks loose, you'll get Chiv
[16:08] MZ- and if it doesn't, you'll get it pretty soon either (and cheap)
[16:09] MZ- btw, are we ever having the GoW-ND-RP chat?
[16:10] BigFree- sure, we need to
[16:10] MZ- we should
[16:10] MZ- and soon
[16:11] MZ- I want to see what all three of us have to say with each other present
[16:11] BigFree- how soon would we get Chiv now?
[16:11] BigFree- what do you mean MZ?
[16:11] BigFree- you want to seee if we say we want to join you in attacking ND in front of them?
[16:11] MZ- hell no
[16:12] BigFree- I don't get it
[16:12] MZ- I want to see their "attitude"
[16:12] BigFree- please explain
[16:12] MZ- 6 months and you still don't get my psycho ploys against the other teams...
[16:12] BigFree- LOL
[16:13] BigFree- perhaps if we had an alliance I would feel better about your psycho ploys
[16:13] MZ- we have had chats with ND, mostly regarding GS, but they kinda shy away when talking about Bobian power politics
[16:13] BigFree- Is Gow ready for that?
[16:13] MZ- I don't know, the team would have to decide
[16:13] BigFree- for an alliance with RP?
[16:13] MZ- I'm already going off on a limb saying some the things I've said today
[16:13] BigFree- ok
[16:13] MZ- I'm not a 1-man GoW you know..
[16:13] BigFree- but what about extending the NAP?
[16:14] MZ- we can start working on that perhaps
[16:14] BigFree- niether am I one man for Rp
[16:14] BigFree- what if we jsut sign an extension of perhaps 20 truns
[16:14] BigFree- then work on an alliance
[16:15] BigFree- that would assure you of RP stance, would it not?
[16:15] MZ- I don't mind the 30 turns
[16:15] MZ- you were the ones that wanted 100 :P
[16:15] BigFree- 30 turns ontop of the one we have to extend it to turn 159?
[16:16] MZ- I'll have to tell the team first you know
[16:16] BigFree- 159= 430 AD
[16:16] BigFree- I will send a proposal
[16:16] MZ- ok
[16:16] BigFree- just an extension
[16:16] MZ- but we should have that chat soon though
[16:16] BigFree- with the curretn one exopirring soonm, we want it to be expedited
[16:17] MZ- [GS_mode]
[16:17] MZ- it is against team policy to have NAPs
[16:17] MZ- [/GS_mode]
[16:17] BigFree- LOL
[16:17] BigFree- yes, we have to get GS to agree to
[16:18] BigFree- as a condition for the lux deals
[16:18] BigFree- do you agree in taking that approach
[16:18] MZ- ok, I have to go
[16:18] BigFree- ok
[16:18] MZ- we'll keep on talking next week ok?
[16:18] BigFree- ok
[16:18] BigFree- tommorow
[16:18] MZ- sure
[16:18] BigFree- is next week
[16:18] MZ- exactly
[16:18] BigFree- 12:4)1
[16:19] MZ- and sorry for ****ing your chain at first... but you know who I am
[16:19] BigFree- sure
[16:19] BigFree- its alll good
[16:19] MZ- although I find it awkward sometimes
[16:19] BigFree- it is
[16:20] BigFree- sorry about that
[16:20] MZ- how we all get along personally and for the ISDG... but let's be honest here. We all want to win the PTWDG
[16:20] BigFree- true
[16:20] BigFree- it is only a game
[16:20] BigFree- nothing personal for me though
[16:20] MZ- me neither
[16:20] MZ- oh well, cya later
[16:20] BigFree- adios
[16:20] BigFree-
[16:20] * MZ (~raguil@dup-200-66-232-225.prodigy.net.mx) Quit (Quit: )
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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I found ZargonX (of Lego) on-line and asked him a quick question or two:
quote:
Session Start: Sun Jul 06 19:45:01 2003
Session Ident: ZargonX
[19:45] BigFree- hey ZargonX
[19:45] BigFree- can you talk for a bit
[19:45] BigFree- maybe 5 minutes
[19:59] ZargonX- sorry, I'm here
[19:59] ZargonX- playing the PTWDG turn
[19:59] BigFree- sorry
[19:59] BigFree- ok
[19:59] BigFree- just wanted to ask about Chiv
[19:59] ZargonX- ah, ok
[19:59] BigFree- are you selling?
[19:59] ZargonX- can you give me a few minutes?
[19:59] BigFree- sure
[20:12] ZargonX- hey, BF, can you give me like another 20 minute? Sorry, but something just came up
[20:12] BigFree- np
[21:30] BigFree- hey
[21:31] BigFree- ZargonX
[21:31] BigFree- ready?
[21:32] ZargonX|around- yes, sorry
[21:33] ZargonX|around- been running around my house
[21:33] BigFree- np
[21:33] ZargonX|around- so, what would you like to discuss?
[21:33] BigFree- about Chivalry...
[21:33] BigFree- are you selling?
[21:33] ZargonX|around- I am afraid we are not in a position to sell
[21:34] BigFree-
[21:34] BigFree- we detected that 3,maybe 4 civs have it.
[21:34] ZargonX|around- I have not checked yet, but it seems possible
[21:34] BigFree- we have confirmed GoW
[21:35] BigFree- we highly suspect ND
[21:35] BigFree- is GoW selling to you?
[21:35] ZargonX|around- I would guess that Chiv would be priority one for those two...
[21:35] BigFree- yes, no doubt
[21:36] ZargonX|around- are you worried about the UU influx on Bob when that happens?
[21:36] BigFree- yes
[21:36] BigFree- maybe GoW and ND figure their UU's cancel each other out and decided to use against RP
[21:36] ZargonX|around- hmmm... that's definately a scary situation
[21:37] BigFree-
[21:37] ZargonX|around- have they expressed any antagonism towards you?
[21:37] BigFree- not yet, but they are relectant to chat
[21:38] ZargonX|around- hrmm... definately a discouraging sign...
[21:38] BigFree- plus GoW wont sell to us yet
[21:38] ZargonX|around- oh? did they give a reason?
[21:38] BigFree- just that we should a few turns then ask again
[21:38] ZargonX|around- ah
[21:38] BigFree- ND. power graph spiked
[21:39] ZargonX|around- yes, I noticed that too
[21:39] BigFree- we figure it was upgrades
[21:39] ZargonX|around- though, they aren't very talkative to begin with :P
[21:39] BigFree- hehe true
[21:40] ZargonX|around- any other exciting happenings on Bob these days?
[21:40] BigFree- other than that, no; we don't want no excitement either! ;p
[21:40] ZargonX|around- hehe, I can appreciate that
[21:40] ZargonX|around- brb
[21:40] BigFree- k
[23:35] BigFree- .
[23:35] No such nick/channel
He never came back.
Session Close: Sun Jul 06 23:38:37 2003
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CiverDan
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I would be very wary of ND right now. As has been discussed, ND and GoW UU's cancel for the most part. And ND might be worried about us using our UU to cripple their infrastructure a little later on. Fortunately the jungle still adds enough of a buffer to neutralize their Ansars (any attack with leave then vulnerable to Med. Inf. first). We need to watch any jungle clearing by ND near our borders for this reason.
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11-06-2003 09:36
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