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Thrumble
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quote:
Originally posted by GodKing
GS knows of Vox’s invasion!!!
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Not wishing to anger GodKing, but this was one of the best laughs I had this week. I halfway expect a post in the morning along the lines of : "Holy Crud! The United States has invaded Iraq!!!!"
On topic and before the Noble Togas beheads me for posting a non-Official post in this thread (sorry, I overlooked which thread this was  )
Has anyone else noticed how GoW always appears to be in the right position at the right time? I by no means think they are cheating, it just appears that they are unbelievably lucky. They were able to jump in on the ND-Lux war and clear out a good chunk of settlement space with only one combat, and that combat captured the only Lux asset of the entire campaign - the Lux worker they have paraded in the main forum.
Lego makes contact with them and then leaves them in full control of who gets contact and when. And if that wasn't enough, they then discover Philosophy from a goody hut and trade that to everyone.
Now, when they appear to be siding with Vox against GS, they not only get GS to research and trade them Feudalism, but they get them to allow their galley to scout their shores (from map paranoid GS!?) and convince GS to use them as their "forward observers".
These are some Grade A high class silver tongued lucky SOBs.
Last edited by Thrumble on 11-04-2003 at 11:05
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Nuclear Winter
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Pm sent encouraging the war effort of Vox in the Estonian war
quote:
Hello Beta,
This is a message I have been wanting to send you since the declaration of war on GS. I and the nation of Spain want to wish you and your armies very good luck fighting the arrogant GSers. We know it will be a hard fight but we from Spain believe your Immortals will triumph.
May God guide your swords and strike them were it hurts!
Along with this letter goes a full ship of wine and squid for the soldiers; so goes the blessings of our holy cardinals and our Most Holy King Augusto Togas the 1st.
Kick the h*ll out of them
Nuclearis Winterius the III,
ambassdor of Spain to Vox
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Nuclear Winter
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Email I received from Beta Hound in answer to the one I sent:
quote:
Re: Good luck to Vox Controli!
My dear Nuclearis Winterius - I don't know what to say. A thousand thank-you's from the soldiers and people of Vox. Yes, for the wine and squid, but the blessings are particularly appreciated. You do us honor.
And we intend to bestow honor on this world by ridding it of the self-righteous and ungodly nation of Gathering Storm. Yes - we know the fight will be hard - but we will prevail.
In addition to your words of support, and your blessings, and the wine and squid, we also thank you for your support through trade. We have a draft of a short agreement for the engineering trade previously discussed. We will forward it to you shortly. In addition, we thank-you for your commitment to not purchase feudalism from the nation of infidels.
Thank-you once again for your best wishes during these dark hours but exciring times for our nation. The war room beckons. My sincerest regards... Beta
aka Beta the Bold, Immortal in General Jon's 1st Voxian Army.
quote:
Nuclear Winter wrote on 10-04-2003 18:27: |
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Nuclear Winter
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Pm sent by Beta regarding the Trade tech
quote:
Trade Deal
Greetings Nuclearis Winterius II.
Thank-you once again for your kind words of support earlier. I have discussed with both you and Togas the sale of engineering, as a) a reasonable deal for Spain and b) support to the continuing war effort in Estonia. It would go along way to cementing our future relations.
Here is the proposed agreement.:
Trade Agreement Between Spain and Vox Controli
In exchange for the technology of engineering, to be delivered as 'accepted' to Spanish RolepLay by Vox Controli on or before the date 34 turns from this date, Spain agrees to pay the sum of 200 gold, payable as 10 gold per turn, to commence on the turn after the conclusion of the current 8gpt payment for a previous deal, and to run for a period of 20 turns.
Signed ........ Togas...............for Spain
Signed ........ BetaHound ..... for Vox Controli
Please note that delivery may be well before the 34 turn deadline, depending on our research rate. This is the worse case scenario.
And on another related matter - feudalism. Yes - GoW has reached a deal with GS with feudalism. This is disappointing on one hand, yet on the other, GS is the only source. Lego, NeuD, and of courxe, Vox, have agreed not to purchase feudalism from GS. We would dearly appreciate it if you could do as well.
We have asked GoW to be reasonable in their demands for feudalism, in order that you are not forced to buy it from GS. If you see my point here.
If GoW demands are still too high in your opinion, we will have the technology ourselves in 10 turns, and would sell it to you at very much reduced rate. We ask howver, that you keep this fact very much to yourselves. I'm sure you understand the sensitivities involved.
Please get back to me when you can on these points.
Thank-you again for your on-going support of our cause.
My regards to Togas, yourself, and the fine people of Spain ..... Beta. |
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CiverDan
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Not that we would GS money anyways...so i don't think Vox has much to worry about there. We just have to hope that ND doesnt get Chivalry, upgrade to ansars, and attempt an attack before then (ignoring the possibly of attacking ND in 10 +/- turns for sake of discussion.)
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:25
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Received from DeepO of Gathering Storm:
quote:
Togas,
Ninot,
GodKing,
I'll be taking up my old role as ambassador to RP again (well, I never resigned, but that red telephone got a bit dusted the past few weeks), Zeit is off his post as FM for a couple of weeks due to a trip abroad.
Feudalism: We are very close to discovering it (normally 2 turns, 3 turns at most in case of unforeseen circumstances), so we would like to offer the proposal to you again. I hope you don't mind we increased the NDA term a little, we don't want Vox to get access to Feud before they are wiped out, I hope you will understand.
So: We will offer Feudalism to you immediately after researching it (should be turn 96, 97 at most), in exchange for 200 gold, or a 12 gpt (20 turns) payment. You agree to respect a 10 turn Non Disclosure Agreement, in that you will not trade / give Feudalism to any other team in those 10 turns after receiving it.
Our team has ratified this proposal, so if you would be interested, please send us a formal acceptance. If you want to discuss it further, please do so, however know that the price is not negotiable, it could at most be transformed from gold into other valuables.
BTW, as far as we know, we are the only ones to currently research this tech (well, Vox might, but good luck to them in getting it). If not buying it from us, you will have to wait 10 turns before this tech will become available to the open market; at which time we would still be interested in making an offer, of course
Certainly there is interest from our team in coordinating future tech plans, however please understand that currently, all discussion is going to the war, we have little time to debate other things right now. All ideas will be welcome, however.
Kind regards,
DeepO of Gathering Storm
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:25
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sent to Darekill,
quote:
Darekill,
I am grateful to hear that you have been appointed ambassador to my Kingdom. You have a very good reputation amongst my nobles and ambassadors as an honorable and trustworthy man, and we were surprised to hear that you are no longer the leader of your nation.
I wish that I was more aware of international events, as no one informed me of the change of government until after mav_son wrote me saying that your government was very angry with me, that there was no excuse for my failure, and that he awaited my "excuses" for sending a message to the wrong person.
I then checked and discovered that mav_son had posted in your public thread that he was the new governor. I regret that I did not check sooner, otherwise I would have written him, however, after his angry letter I was not pleased to be adressed in such fashion and chose not to respond at all. As King of Spain I am not used to being treated so distastefully, and I certainly would not have written such an angry letter to your Governor if he had made the same honest mistake that I did.
But let me set that issue aside and focus on what is truely important to my kingdom:
Feudalism -- GoW has offered it to us for 75g ... they are buying it from GS and will sell it 10 turns afterwards. While I can't say that I enjoy buying it from GoW, they have offered it at such a discount that we would be foolish not to.
GoW -- We have found ways to get along with the Warmongers lately. Continued discounted tech sales and trades have improved relations. We admit, we were very puzzled by the decision of your nation to give them iron. So long as the Warmongers have no iron they cannot attack with anything greater than a "2" attack strength. Can you explain why your nation chose to give them iron? It seems like a very risky decision, especially given how unpredictable the Warmongers are.
We are always interested in discussions on the future of our continent, and we would be very happy to meet and discuss how to divide this land between us.
--Togas
p.s. MrWhereItsAt remains ambassador to your nation and I will have him continue to contact you about most matters of diplomacy. |
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:25
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a somewhat sarcastic response from DeepO of Gathering Storm
quote:
RE: RE: Update on Feudalism
Togas,
Thanks, I'm sure we'll be in touch later. I can understand you have to wait, and yes, please contact us before you would accept an offer from GoW. I'm sure we will try to meet their price, however it is much too soon to negotiate how much that would be.
The risk of waiting would be moderate, chivalry can be easily researched in 7 turns or so, but that might not leave enough time for the UUs to reach you. However, the risk of advantaging a middlemen, who gains relative to both the buyer and the researcher remains... It's good to see you have enough trust in your relation with GoW to even consider such a trade.
See you soon and good luck on Bob,
DeepO
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Nuclear Winter
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I know this thread is not for comments but :
´´Sons of a bl**dy b*tch!´´
Those other nations are getting too much disrespectfull with us.
First the Sausage-eating munchkin, then Deep-o!
We need to finish rexing ASAP and smash some nations to gain power!
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CiverDan
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There hasn't been one PM in a week?? Where are our ambassadors? They must be getting drunk in the teverns.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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In my chat with MasterZen, the new Foriegn Affair's Minister, I learned that GoW is currently reorganizing the govenrmental structure to look more like a Republic.
GoW is also still debating/holding our proposal for the defisive Alliance against ND; mostly it is being delayed by their restructuring of their government right now. MZ has told me that he plans to help push it through now that he's in his current position. He thinks it is a wise plan to have us as Allies against ND. MZ stated that ND and GS were the greatest threats to them.
The topic of GoW and RP helping Vox against GS came up. I said that we'd be willing to send 4 units to Estonia if GoW was willing to offer their Map to us, so that we may see how to navigate the water's between GS and RP; it was also conditional on GS selling Feudalism to us, perhaps earlier than the 10 turns GS had sanctioned that they should wait. I made it clear that no deal against GS would be made before a deal for the Alliance against ND was made.
MZ said that he's feel more comforatable with us both sending 6 units over to Estonia (12 total); He says this would ensure GS's demise. He will be ok with us just sending 4 units, because time is of the essence here. He'd be willing to 'gift' us the Map, if we'd be willing to rush the second Galley so that we could get the units on there way to GS in 12 turns. I left it vague as to whether they were to be on GS ground by 12 turns or on their way by 12 turns. MZ made it clear that GoW would like nothing more than to see GS completely wiped out. GoW would also like to have Vox in on the Alliance, so that they know what is going on; a battle plan can be drawn up between us three that would be more effective than each of us acting individually was his general point.
MZ also made a brief but failed attempt, early in the chat, to offer GoW's units to us for "hire" against GS. So that they can claim no culpability to the actions of their units against GS. I basically said, "I don't think so." He dropped it quickly.
To be discussed here.
Last edited by BigFree on 20-04-2003 at 13:51
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Nuclear Winter
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Here is the situation, with the coments from BetaHound
quote:
It shows the border zone and the extent of GS territory discovered so far. You will also note - our stack of a dozen Immortals about to attack Arashi. Reinforcements backing them up. On the east coast - we have 3 immortals landed, plus more reinforcements on their way. You can see an iron supply.
What you can't see is are the reinforcements arriving from the north. Trust this helps. Next turn should be interesting. ..... Beta.
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We must ASAP get to give them an answer about engeneering deal
Last edited by Nuclear Winter on 21-04-2003 at 21:05
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dejon
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quote:
The following must be done, in this order:
1) Get Vox to "pay" us to attack GS. They should give us Engineering in exchange for us declaring war on GS. If they refuse, we MIGHT still attack GS if they'll give us a SUBSTANTIAL discount on Engineering. If they refuse, we just buy Engineering and stay neutral.
2) Get a Defense Pact signed with GoW. This must be done before any other agreements are made with them.
2A) If GoW does not sign a Defense Pact, or this whole thing falls apart, we extend the Non-Agg with ND for another 20 turns.
3) Once the pact is in place, we coordinate with GoW to send 2 gallies with 4 units. They give us their map so that we can get to GS faster. If they will not give us their map (try very hard for it), then we can accept a screenshot showing the western coastline to GS.
4) We rush our 2nd galley when reasonable. We fill our 2 gallies with 2 swords, 2 horsemen.
5) We coordinate with GoW to attack different cities on the same turn to maximise our chances of doing damage to GS.
--Togas |
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Nuclear Winter
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Message received from BetaHound, regarding the message I sent him,as ordered by Togas, during the Days without Apolyton.
quote:
The Eclipse
Nuclear Winterius III
My dear friend. How are you? I trust the people of Spain and their esteemed leader Togas survived the recent eclipse which encompassed the known world. It was a strange time - with little contact bewteen people - and time moving in slow motion. It is good that it has passed. I can only assume that it was the power of the Almight and the faith of his servants of the Catholic Church which removed this curse from the world. e thank you for this.
To business. During this unusual phenomenom, we did receive one message from you - as follows:
"My friend Beta,
Our King is considering an attack on the common enemy,
the GS, in order to help our friends from Vox Controli.
IF we did this, we would coordinate our efforts with GoW
in an attempt to create another frontline thus dividing
GS´s army. We have been discussing the Engineering deal
quite a bit. We are concerned as our economy is not
strong right now, however, our soldiers are, so we think
that engineering could be offered as a gift to us in
such an event.(By the way,Our military counselors also
asked if the Voxian Army will attack the fortress named
as Arashi, or what directions will Vox take, so that we
can orientate our Plans).
Regarding trade, we would like to know if there is any
sort of deal arranged between VOx Controli and Glory of
War for Feudalism. If not, We would like to offer it as
soon as we got it for the amount of 75 golds.
Please respond as soon as possible,as we will need to
start making lots of preparations before starting the
military action and every wasted turn puts off our
invasion additional turns.
Your Friend,
Nuclearis Winterius the III
Ambassador to Vox Controli"
We are overjoyed to hear of your planned involvement in this great crusade against the infidels of the Storm. And we do appreciate your monetary situation. If there was significant involvement on your behalf, we would be willing to provide engineering for no gold when completed. Significant involement is defined as 3-4 galleys providing troops and reinforcements. One or two galleys appearing soon would be appreciated. Please let us know of your plans and we can co-ordinate with Voxian and allied troops.
As to Arashi - our plan is to bypass the city, isolating it and hopefully trapping the defenders inside it. We have significant reinforcements arriving soon which can assault the smaller cities - after they have been isolated and the infrastructure destroyed. We are also reinforcing our east coast force in the mountains - and it is currently tying down considerable GS forces.
As to feudalism, I regret to inform you that we have previously reached a deal for feudalism with GoW. Thank-you for considering us - but we are committed.
I look forward to your response - and to being brothers in arms in this crusade.
My deepest regards - Beta the Bold.
__________________
Founder of the Havamal - the true spirit of the Vikings!
"V" .... Vox Controli. One Voice. To Victory.
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Start of MasterZen buffer: Fri Apr 25 22:37:55 2003
Session Ident: MasterZen (Master@dup-200-64-70-143.prodigy.net.mx)
[22:05] BigFree> BTW, we at RP are in desperate need for the map/route to GS terr.
[22:06] BigFree> We saw/heard that you guys landed on GS!!! Great 
[22:07] MasterZen> It'll get better 
[22:08] MasterZen> do you have galleys now?
[22:08] BigFree> We want to commit at leat 4 units, most likely 6 to this war effort.
[22:08] BigFree> not yet
[22:08] BigFree> soonm though
[22:08] BigFree> we agreed to rush the second one though as you suggested
[22:09] MasterZen> we will probably tell you tomorrow or 2 days at the most if the MPP treaty is accepted
[22:09] MasterZen> actually it IS accepted, we just want to make some slight modifications and pass them
on to you
[22:09] BigFree> good, I see no reason why it wouldn't, it's a good move for all three of us.
[22:10] BigFree> but you have to agree to selling us Feud, now that you are at war with GS, this
shouldn't be a problem
[22:12] BigFree> Did your team also approve the Defensive Pact in regards to protecting ourselves from
ND?
[22:12] MasterZen> yes, that's what we've approved
[22:12] MasterZen> as sent by Togas, with the modifications I have just told you
[22:13] MasterZen> we need one last review and we'll send it
[22:13] BigFree> did you see my message about Feud?
[22:13] MasterZen> I'm sorry if we took a while, just that this whole new Republic transition has made
us very busy with our internal affairs
[22:13] MasterZen> yes
[22:13] BigFree> So, we going to get it from you soon?
[22:14] MasterZen> yes, very soon
[22:14] BigFree> cool
[22:15] BigFree> can you reveal what's going on in Estonia?
[22:15] MasterZen> I'd say 1 or 2 days, but as it is, it's MOSTLY approved
[22:15] MasterZen> we don't know much, trust me, we just landed
[22:15] BigFree> What are your Horsemen going to be doing?
[22:15] MasterZen> whaddaya think
[22:15] BigFree> LOL!
[22:15] BigFree> cup of tea perhaps
[22:15] BigFree>
[22:16] MasterZen> cup of tea, raze a few cities, rape conquer and pillage..
[22:16] BigFree> I thought you could role play a little and say you had to unload for a bit cause the
Galles sprung a leak!
[22:16] MasterZen> that would have been interesting
[22:16] BigFree> to say the least
[22:17] BigFree> I bet they feel betrayed
[22:17] BigFree> Just wait till they learn we are in on it too! 
[22:17] MasterZen> do I give a ****?? hahahaha
[22:17] MasterZen> re:betrayal
[22:17] BigFree> nope, neither do we!!HAHA
[22:18] BigFree> I need that evil maniacal laught thing, how does it go?
[22:19] MasterZen> BUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
[22:19] BigFree> oh yeah..
[22:19] BigFree> BUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
[22:20] BigFree> thanks
[22:20] MasterZen> went well with my Lord Farquaad avatar... perhaps I should change it back
[22:20] BigFree> hehe
End of MasterZen buffer Fri Apr 25 22:37:55 2003
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Talked with MasterZen of GoW tonight about our deal and why they offered us their map, but didn't offer it "accepted."
quote:
[20:27] BigFree> Can we talk PTWDG stuff?
[20:27] MasterZen> sure
[20:27] BigFree> cool
[20:27] MasterZen> BTW, I'm sending you tomorrow morning the treaty
[20:27] BigFree> really
[20:27] MasterZen> problem is GF was away for drill this weekend
[20:27] BigFree> ah
[20:28] MasterZen> I just want him to ok it and its off to you guys
[20:28] BigFree> You guys offered us your map on the last turn without accepting it
[20:29] MasterZen> I wasn't aware of that...
[20:30] BigFree> we didn't know what to think, so we just hit "accept" thinking you were giving us the plans to be able ot invade GS
[20:33] MasterZen> I'll ask GF... it couldn't have been a mistake though, I mean, you don't accidentally open the diplo screen and trade a map 
[20:33] BigFree> no, not usually
[20:33] well, now that you have the map... 
[20:34] BigFree> how'd your horsemen fair in Estonia?
[20:37] BigFree> We don't have the map yet, you guys need to hit "accept" also, that was the 'weird' part. If it was just to let us know what was going on as far as where we could safely move our Galley's then whomever sent it should have just sent it "accepted" instead of waiting for it to come back to you guys first. Unless who ever did it was waiting for something in return?
[20:38] BigFree> But we never discussed anytthing like that, so I'm confused as to what has happened and why.
[20:38] MasterZen> let me ask GF... right now, hope he's back
[20:38] BigFree> ok
[22:19] BigFree> MZ, did GF ever come back on-line?
[22:22] MasterZen> nope... I posted though
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We'll have till Monday morning/afternnon PST
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Finally we have the proposal back from Gow. They made two changes, minor, but they are fine. We can extend this deal at another time in the future or make another one dealing with some devious plans for ND, as MasterZen has alluded too numerous times. 
========================================
To Togas and BigFree of Spain:
The following is our revised draft resolution for a Mutual Protection Pact between our two glorious nations:
DEFENSE PACT BETWEEN THE GLORY OF WAR AND SPAIN:
1) In the event that either party to this agreement is attacked by Neu Demoglyptica, the other party shall immediately declare war on Neu Demoglyptica and shall
commit the majority of their military towards the conquest or destruction of Neu Demoglyptica.
2) Once the war has begun the leaders of both nations shall meet, exchange combat and spy information, and attempt to cooperate as much as possible in
the joint war effort.
3) Neither party may negotiate a separate peace with Neu Demoglpytica. Peace with Neu Demoglyptica must be agreed on by all parties.
4) This pact shall last for 30 turns upon which it may be renegotiated.
You will notice 2 major differences in this version, first of all, we did not agree to your second parragraph whic originally was:
Should Neu Demoglyptica settle in areas that are claimed by either party, and should the offended party declare war on Neu Demoglyptica, the other party to this pact must also declare war and shall commit the majority of their military towards the conquest or destruction of Neu Demoglyptica.
The reason for this is that we want to avoid at any costs any negotiation of a border treaty with ND which would be necessary to define which areas are claimed by each side. ND has been rather icy lately and a border agreement at this stage will most likely make them even more hostile, which is something we want to avoid, and I'm sure your team would too as it would also have to do the same. Also, it would make ND feel "cornered" at the fact that its two neighbors will appear to want to limit their territory. Right now our priority is the Vox-GS war, we wish to avoid confict with ND as soon as that war is resolved.
Also, we changed the length of the agreement from 100 to 30 years, as we feel 100 years is a far too long timespan, and things may change drastically. 30 years will secure us during the estimated length of the Vox-GS war upon which time we may plan a much more detailed agreement regarding Spain and The Glory of War's role in the future of Bob.
We hope this treaty is satisfactory to your great nation, and hope it can be approved as soon as possible. On the other hand, we would like to mention that the delay in its approval was caused by our government's transition, hopefully this has been resolved and we expect all future diplomatic agreements to be handled at a much brisker pace.
From my part, and in the name of The Glory of War, we wish Spain the best of luck in its endeveours and hope that this treaty is only the beginning of a strong and beneficial relationship.
Yours truly
Master Zen
Consul of Foreign Affairs for The Glory of War
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:25
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received this PM from betahound:
quote:
The War
Greetings Togas. I hope you don't mind me writing you directly, but Vox is interested in a response to our recent letter regarding Spain's involvement in the war.
We are making arrangements with GoW to land and accumulate troops on our side of the border, thus being able to better co-ordinate our moves. Their involvement is still limited by the number of galleys available to them - plus of course - the somewhat of a 'stand-off' situation on the continent. If you were to throw your support militarily behind the Estonian war, it would go a long way to cementing future relations, and easing GoW's concerns of continental pressures.
Also, I think it goes without saying that none of us want to see GS come out of this victorious. Vox is totally committed to this war, but we are up against a tough opponent, with a stronger economy, and the advantage of defence. Hence our urgings for you to get involved. As we have mentioned previously, we are getting support either directly or indirectly from other nations. And support from you now will be reciprocated in the future.
Please let us know where you stand. Thank-you, and regards.... Beta.
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Nuc & BigFree -- Feel free to contact Vox to let them know that we will send military support as soon as our gallies are done. We are commited to supporting their war efforts against GS and hope that our aid will help tip the balance towards Vox. We also trust that Vox will give us Engineering in exchange for our sending troops to help in the conflict.
Also, ask them what sorts of troops they need and if they prefer them dropped on friendly soil or behind enemy lines.
--Togas
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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Chat with MZ of GoW. I'm trying to secure Feudalism form GoW by convincing them they they won't take a 'reputation' hit by trading it to us before the 'no-trade' clause that they have with GS is up. They are at war with GS; so it makes sense that any deals you may have had are a wash now since you've gone to war with them.
Also, since Vox needs Feudalism too, it makes sense for GoW to seel it to them early as well. The better that Vox's troops do against GS the less support GoW and RP has to give them because Vox will be more likely to succeed in the war against Vox.
I think it is in GoW's interest to sell the Tech to both Vox and RP now, and I'm trying to convince him of that. GoW would rather not take the 'rep' hit; at least that is their story. I've made several suggestions as too how we could circumvent that, but MZ still seem reluctant. perhaps they feel that at a later date we could go public about how the traded Feudalism to us and Vox. The only players by that time who'd care is Lego.
We'll see what happens.
MZ was either very slow and deliberate with his responses or he was busy doing other things during our chat; hence the many time delays.
quote:
[17:54] |BigFree| You got a deal for me yet?
[18:01] |BigFree| MZ, you there?
[18:03] |MasterZen| hey
[18:04] |BigFree| hi
[18:04] |MasterZen| ok here goes
[18:04] |MasterZen| lemme find the thread and sent it to you by e-mail
[18:04] |BigFree| ok
[18:27] |MasterZen| SENT
[18:28] |BigFree| is it good news?
[18:30] |MasterZen| of course it is, check your e-mail
[18:30] |BigFree| lol, ok
[18:59] |BigFree| MZ, now that we have that under our belts, lets talk about the map and when we can get Feudalism from you.
[19:04] |MasterZen| ok, the map... again GF has been away and I don't know what happened about that
[19:10] |BigFree| ok, what about Feudalism?
[19:10] |BigFree| and see if he can come to a chat with us, maybe we can get things hammered out quicker. Try to set him up with mIRC.
[19:14] |MasterZen| as you were saying...
[19:15] |MasterZen| we're very worried about the Feudalism thing, how it can damage our rep
[19:18] |BigFree| you are at war with GS; "All's fair in love and war"
[19:20] |BigFree| war disavows any treaties or agreements you've previously had; the "hit" you took has already been taken, it was the one you took when you declared war on them. WE will take the same hit once we do the same.
[19:21] |BigFree| The justification is that since RP is joining the war, you felt it would better your chances if RP had the upgraded abilities that come with Feudalism.
[19:22] |BigFree| No one can sully your reputation for team trying to ensure the best possible outcome in a war.
[19:23] |BigFree| Didn't you have a 'deal' with GS, spying of Vox's troops movements and supplying reports? This was when you took a rep hit, you backed out of that deal and attacked them.
[19:26] |MasterZen| sorry back...
[19:26] |BigFree| np
[19:26] |MasterZen| we're not worried about what GS thinks of it, we're worried about what other teams think of it
[19:26] |MasterZen| a rep hit is not only a hit towards the team you betray but all others will know you are not to be trusted
[19:26] |BigFree| We, in Spain don't see a problem with it; we think other team won't either
[19:27] |BigFree| Vox will care less
[19:27] |BigFree| ND...who cares
[19:27] |MasterZen| example, Lego, lego will soon be able to overtake us in techs perhaps, how will we be trusted to get techs first from them?
[19:27] |BigFree| lego is the only one to worry about, if worry is the right word
[19:28] |MasterZen| but that's the one that counts
[19:28] |BigFree| we will continue to trade with them, if Lego cuts you out , they make a mistake
[19:28] |MasterZen| we have to discuss this more in depth, its not so easy as it looks
[19:28] |BigFree| GoW will become powerful once you have some more room to expand in the South
[19:28] |MasterZen| yes but we'll get crappy corrupt cities at first
[19:29] |BigFree| Lego would be fooling themselves to use that as an excuse to not deal with you
[19:29] |BigFree| There' land near GoW that is in ND's terr. that would make fine cities for GoW
[19:29] |MasterZen| not that they don't deal, just that they don't deal FIRST
[19:30] |MasterZen| i.e... we don't want to get all second-hand techs 10 turns after someone discovers them, you understand this is for "national security" reasons
[19:30] |BigFree| Why would they base that on what happened with GS?
[19:31] |MasterZen| because they would lose out cash... because they would know we would trade it cheaper, and all teams would know that too
[19:32] |BigFree| That happens regardless of what they feel your reputation is, doesn't it? teams are always on the lookout for their best interests.
[19:34] |MasterZen| of course, but we can't make that TOO obvious
[19:34] |BigFree|
[19:35] |MasterZen| plus look at our teammembers, I mean hell, THEY KNOW ME... look at our MP game, both of you knew I was going to screw one of you, people think warmongers are like that, we have a bad rep to begin with, so far we've done a very good job of losing our dignity that way, and we don't want to start
[19:36] |MasterZen| * Not losing
[19:36] |BigFree| lego has been an isolationist form the begining; they like it that way. The views they have on the GS war will not affect them.
[19:37] |MasterZen| but they'll take advantage of their land and insolationism to be the tech dealer par excellance
[19:37] |MasterZen| wouldn't you if you were them?
[19:37] |BigFree| You guys can debate it, but we need Feudalism to pull this deal off I fear.
[19:38] |BigFree| we can't send over poor, in terms of comparison, over to GS and expect to have an impact
[19:38] |BigFree| If I was Lego, i would be doing exactlywhat they are doing, minding their own business and taking the best deals for them without worries for Alliances.
[19:39] |BigFree| They feel they are their own best Allies
[19:39] |BigFree| There continent protects them better than any one Alliance could.
[19:39] |BigFree| That and the NM
[19:39] |BigFree|
[19:40] |BigFree| They feel that they are safe for now and well into the future, they will continue their peaceful build into the future.
[19:41] |BigFree| GoW and RP should possibly, after ND, consider dealing with Lego before they get to developed? Just a thought....
[19:47] |MasterZen| have you checked your military advisor?
[19:48] |MasterZen| oh, and yes, 1) GS 2) ND 3) Lego
[19:54] |BigFree| good
[19:54] |BigFree| yes we've checked the military advisor, why?
[19:59] |MasterZen| what does it say about Lego?
[20:19] |BigFree| not sure
[20:19] |BigFree| i'd have to recheck
[20:21] |BigFree| We are strong to Lego
[22:41] |BigFree| MZ, question: what ever happened to that WM GoW offered RP?
[22:42] |BigFree| On what turn would you "legally" sell Feud to us?
[22:43] |BigFree| Did you get my email indicating that Spain has agreed to the Pact?
[22:50] |MasterZen| back.. sorry
[22:50] |MasterZen| was spamming at MZO
[22:50] |BigFree| lol
[22:51] |MasterZen| oh.. the WM
[22:51] |MasterZen| again... I HAVE NO IDEA..
[22:51] |MasterZen| I don't know why we offered it in the first place.. GF must have made a mistake or something i guess
[22:52] |BigFree| can you find out if we can get the WM from you, we need it for the opreration
[22:53] |BigFree| maybe the mistake was that he was to send it accepted....ask him directly about this, it is important.
[22:59] |BigFree| On what turn would you "legally" sell Feud to us?
[23:00] |BigFree| Did you get my email indicating that Spain has agreed to the Pact?
[23:00] |BigFree| MasterZen
[23:02] |MasterZen| posted the agreement....
[23:02] |MasterZen| the Feudalism... I think it would have been 10 turns from when we got it, just that I forgot what turn that was :P
[23:02] |BigFree| I thought it was 7 turns, for the no trade thingy...
[23:03] |BigFree| but I wasn't sure what turn you got it on
[23:04] |BigFree| You know, if you seel it to Vox and us early, it will aid tremendously in the war...lessening the cost for military units needed to take down GS for all of us. I'm sure Vox would pay you back for that with perhaps a tech in the future.
[23:07] |MasterZen| I would perhaps be 7 turns by now
[23:07] |BigFree| ah
[23:07] |BigFree| so there's no chance in hell that you'd sell us Feud earlier?
[23:08] |BigFree| What if vox got it by research then sold it to us?
[23:09] |BigFree| If you sold it to both of us then we can say that is what happened; keeping Lego, GS, and ND in the dark....:evilplan:
[23:11] |MasterZen| what are the odds of ND attacking in 7 (or whatever) turns?
[23:12] |BigFree| not really worried about them right now, i guess
[23:12] |BigFree| how would they fit into the plan anyways?
[23:16] |MasterZen| they might see our little expedition against ND and decide to strike
[23:17] |BigFree| maybe...I doubt it, but how would selling Feud to Vox and RP affect that? It would actually stop them from coming south against us and would allow for a massive counter attack by Spain if they even so much dared to raise a pinky at GoW
[23:18] |BigFree| You meant GS in the previous sentence...
[23:22] |MasterZen| yes, GS sorry
[23:23] |MasterZen| (I got killing germans in my head)
[23:23] |BigFree| lol
[23:26] |BigFree| are you busy right now MZ?
[23:44] |BigFree| MZ?
[23:44] |MasterZen| umm... a bit
[23:44] |MasterZen| but speak your mind
[23:45] |BigFree| I did already...I'm waiting for you to respond.
[23:45] |MasterZen| oh yeah.. sorry lemme read
[23:47] |MasterZen| I'll tell you this, let me discuss the Feud. thing with the team, see what they think
[23:48] |BigFree| ok, I have more ideas on how to get around the 'no-trade' thingy too!
[23:48] |BigFree| RP can claim to have researched it ourselves.
[23:48] |BigFree| or we had a goody hut saved and we popped it for feud
[23:48] |MasterZen| HAHAHAHA.
[23:49] |MasterZen| and we popped an ICBM!
[23:49] |BigFree| lol, you know what i mean though, idf there's a will there;s a way
[23:49] |BigFree| we can declare war on GS before you give it to us, they won't know we even have it till hey see our units.
[23:50] |MasterZen| sounds like an idea
[23:51] |BigFree| there's lots of ways to do it, some prefered over the other's let me know what your team can approve.
[23:53] |MasterZen| ok
[23:53] |MasterZen| will do
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CiverDan
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One question about about that pact: Does triggering it require ND to phyically attack first? What if they have 10 Ansars on our doorstep?
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11-04-2003 10:56
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