02-05-2003 05:31									#301
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

message sent to Vox:

quote: Hello, my good friend, yes thanks God the Almighty we all have survived these events. Here we had no Eclipse, but instead a great great Crimson-Red Storm, wich affected each one in a different manner; thanks god most of us are still alive. I come here bearing a sugestion: That a great , new tech deal be made between our nations; this would work like this: If one of our nations buys a tech, the other would send half of the money and then the nation who got it would send it for free. An example might explain this better : Vox gets to a deal for tech1 with (insertnationhere) at the price of 400gold:Roleplay sends 200 gold, and when Vox gets the tech it sends it to roleplay. El Rey Justino Togas believes that this will put both of our nations on the top of the list of the most advanced nations of the world. We from RP hope you guys agree with this, and answer to this as soon as possible, so, to better discuss these, he asks for your presence at Dalnet, channel #rpvox, at any time your team members can, just please let me know. Nuclearis Winterius the III, ambassdor to Vox Controlli. PS:. We are oficially with sending a force of 3 galleys loaded of units towards Estonia. We will most likely send 2 galleys first and a third one as reinforcements.

	02-05-2003 12:27									#302
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

MrWIA Could you please contact ND and send them a proposal to extend our NAP with them; for 20 more turns. I'd like to see the original NAP we had with them; the NAP keeps getting extended but I'm not fully aware of the exact wording it entails. Is there a link to the agreement you can post?

I'd like you to also see if you can get any tech trading ideas bantered about with them. We need to expand our list of trading partners. Ask if they have luxeries they'd like to soon trade.

NOTES on ND:
We'd like to get ND to attack GoW; since ND doesn't know about of Defensive Pact with GoW, they would likey send the majority of their forces North. Once we get an extension of this NAP they may feel at ease and decide to attack GoW before GoW gets their Rider's. We would then sneak in the back door, using the Defesive Pact with GoW to override the NAP we have with ND; ND would be crushed!

Anything we can do to foster hostility bewtween ND and GoW is good for us, as long as word doesn't get out to anyone that that is what we want. We don't need to lie to do this, however.

	03-05-2003 05:10									#303
	Suffering from ads?

PM sent to MasterZen of GoW 5 minutes ago

quote: RE: PTWDG: Map and Feudalism? Hey MZ I haven't seen you around in a few days, everything fine in your neck of the woods? How'd that party work out? Did you get your shift covered in time to enjoy the festivities? Well, enough of the small talk. Since GF is 'away' who's making the decisions? Can we get a response on the Map issue? It was offered by you guys once again, and once again it was offered as 'not accpeted.' What is going on? I asked you previously about this and you said you had no clue. Does GF, or whomever is playing the turn want us to offer something in return? A little discussion should take place first if they want something to be offered in return, don't you think? Have your team member's discussed the possibilities of selling RP and Vox Feudalism earlier than requested by GS? I've assigned WB to be our rep to GoW; he's still a little new to the situatuion, so take it easy on him! Hope to hear from you soon, BigFree

	03-05-2003 06:00									#304
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just to remind you guys, Vox already has an agreement for feudalism now, maybe they have already sold it (though we can not know for sure).

Last edited by Nuclear Winter on 03-05-2003 at 06:53

	04-05-2003 09:17									#305
	Support Apolyton

Chat with MZ of GoW today:

quote: [16:45] -MasterZen> let's talk [16:45] -BigFree> thanks [16:45] -MasterZen> the map deal was GF's idea of seeing if you had anything to offer for it [16:46] -BigFree> we are offering to join you in war against GS i thought [16:47] -BigFree> It's in your best interst if we get there sooner, no? [16:47] -BigFree> we don't nee you whole WM, just the portion that shows GS land and water between Estonia and Bob [16:48] -MasterZen> btw, have you guys talked to Vox about this? [16:48] -BigFree> yes, we have [16:48] -MasterZen> and what's their reaction? [16:48] -BigFree> they are very happy to hear about our involvementt [16:49] -BigFree> no surprise there really [16:50] -MasterZen> nope [16:50] -MasterZen> GS is a tough nut to crack though... [16:51] -BigFree> Since GoW and RP will be helping them, they will be our best buds for a while [16:51] -BigFree> with a 3 team effort against GS, they don't stand a chance [16:52] -BigFree> especially once RP and Vox get Feud from you. [16:52] -BigFree> GS will be in some deep ****! [16:52] -MasterZen> Vox doesn't need Feud, Immortals are just as good as Med Infs [16:52] -BigFree> no, but it give then a better defender against the WC [16:53] -BigFree> the pikeman [16:53] -MasterZen> I'm still skeptic on how much we can truly contribute though [16:53] -MasterZen> if we do this, we gotta do it right [16:53] -BigFree> defense is times 2 versus horse [16:54] -BigFree> we have concretely pledged 6 units as of right now [16:54] -BigFree> If we all three cooperate i don't see why we wouldn't send more to help finnish them off [16:55] -BigFree> With out Pact essentailly protecting the other from ND we can safely send more units [16:56] -MasterZen> yeah, I don't think ND will strike [16:56] -MasterZen> (at least I hope not) [16:57] -BigFree> I highly doubt it, really if they did, they would be signig theri death certificate [16:58] -MasterZen> I need to check with the team to see who much we'd be willing to spare [16:59] -MasterZen> *how [17:00] -BigFree> Vox sounds as if they are sending in one wave now to get GS's defenses concentrated in one area by moving Vox's troops deep into GS land. Once in deep, they can send a second wave to the less defeded cities in the North and attack thoise cities from the North and South at the same time if GS moves it units that way. [17:01] -MasterZen> I wish I had a map of Estonia... [17:01] -MasterZen> I wish we had REAL news, not betahound's twisted version of it.. hahaha [17:02] -BigFree> Also, before RP declares war we could do some spying on topp counts in each of GS's cities, of course Vox and GoW would need to help offset the costs on this operation [17:13] -BigFree> So, can we get a map of the water near Estonia; just a screen shot perhaps? [17:13] -MasterZen> do you have your galleys ready? [17:13] -BigFree> yes [17:13] -MasterZen> 2 or 3? [17:14] -BigFree> not all [17:14] -MasterZen> ? [17:14] -BigFree> 1 ready now 1 more in 2 turns [17:15] -BigFree> we need to plan ahead as much as possible, we need to know if we hve to head all the way around. [17:15] -BigFree> do you know this, cant's you tell me now? [17:20] -BigFree> MZ, does you Civ have knowledge of the water ways between RP and GS? [17:26] -MasterZen> back... sorry [17:27] -MasterZen> lemme open the map... [17:27] -BigFree> ok [17:40] -MasterZen> damn.. you're gonna have to give us a few turns [17:40] -BigFree> ok [17:41] -MasterZen> the closest stretch (apparently) between GS and RP is still uncovered [17:41] -BigFree> ok [17:41] -MasterZen> wait, this isn't the latest map.... [17:41] -BigFree> [17:41] -MasterZen> I think GF sent the latest today or yesterday [17:41] -BigFree> ah [17:41] -BigFree> who's doing turns for him now? [17:46] -MasterZen> guess what?!?!?!?! [17:46] -BigFree> what? :0 [17:46] -BigFree> you won the lottery? [17:46] -BigFree> [17:46] -MasterZen> no, you guys are within striking distance [17:47] -BigFree> cool [17:47] -BigFree> could you please send a screen shot of that to us? [17:47] -MasterZen> That's all I'm allowing myself to say right now though... [17:47] -BigFree> edit it as much as you want..... [17:47] -MasterZen> I must consult with the team, and I will make a detailed proposal for military intervention [17:47] -BigFree> ok [17:47] -MasterZen> 2 galleys [17:48] -MasterZen> but you'll probably be able to ferry them pretty quick [17:48] -BigFree> yes [17:48] -BigFree> we were hoping for that [17:48] -BigFree> believe me, we don't want to send over units in elonmgated stpes, we want to make an immediate impact [17:49] -MasterZen> 2 galleys will hardly be an impact [17:49] -MasterZen> well, depending on where you land them though [17:50] -BigFree> 4 units then 2 more in two or three turns; we might go 8 units, depends on how things are at the time [17:50] -BigFree> if we have enough gold we may be able to hurry up somre production [17:51] -MasterZen> ok [17:51] -MasterZen> well, gotta go do some thesis **** [17:51] -MasterZen> I'll be back later on [17:51] -BigFree> ok, later MZ

	04-05-2003 10:33									#306
	Inflate your Upload Space

Chatlog of talk with BetaHound today, Plus two screenshots.
Next turn they shall send us World Map. PLease, keep those maps INSIDE our team, BEta Had some trouble getting those to us.

quote: Session Start: Sat May 03 17:53:48 2003 Session Ident: #RPVOX [17:53] * Now talking in #RPVOX [17:53] * NuclearisWinterius has joined #RPVox [17:53] * Retrieving #RPVOX info... [17:54] * BigFree sets mode: +k deal [17:54] * BigFree sets mode: +nps [17:55] * BetaHound has joined #RPVOX [17:56] -BigFree> cool [17:56] -BetaHound> Hey guys - 2 against one. No fair. [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> Mod me [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> Hello Beta! [17:56] -BigFree> I'll let you two talk [17:56] -BetaHound> Hi NW! [17:56] * BigFree sets mode: +oo BetaHound NuclearisWinterius [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> This is not an attack! this is a diplomatic encounter [17:56] -BetaHound> How are you doing? [17:56] -BetaHound> [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> Fine tahnks, and you? [17:56] -BetaHound> busy busy [17:56] -BetaHound> work's been busy [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> Diplomatic in the old, non-rumsfeld way [17:57] -NuclearisWinterius> [17:57] -BetaHound> and I've got a new home computer and network. [17:57] -NuclearisWinterius> Good news then! [17:57] -BetaHound> Which is great - but still working out the kinks. [17:57] -NuclearisWinterius> HAd I a working pc... [17:58] -BetaHound> yes - 2.4, 512, geforce - 80meg hard drive - the whole works - and a 19 inch monitor!!! [17:58] -NuclearisWinterius> WOhooo! [17:59] -BetaHound> give me a sec to re-read your last deal - OK. [17:59] -NuclearisWinterius> Excuse me, can I leave for some 10 minutes? Gotta go talk to my grandmotehr, ok? [18:00] -BigFree> You want me to fill in for you NW? [18:01] -BetaHound> yup - I am replaying last turn for the 4th time to see if it works [18:02] -BigFree> I sure hope so, doesn't sound promising though [18:02] -BigFree> there's a long raod to fix it though; it can be done with thrid party help. [18:07] * NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [18:14] -BetaHound> BF - where di NW go? [18:14] -BigFree> he had to see hi Grandmother I geuss,his connection timed out [18:15] -BigFree> he might be bcak soon, but I can fill in for him, IM the head FA dude anyways [18:16] -BetaHound> K. [18:16] -BetaHound> Our team is generally on-side with the deal - but it does play into the longer term. [18:16] -BetaHound> And our focus - well to be honest - is somehwat short-term right now. [18:17] -BetaHound> The war goes so-so. [18:17] -BetaHound> We were 10 turns or so too late. Pikemen have made it difficult to consolidate any gains and take out cities. [18:18] -BetaHound> And if you have noticed the mil advisor - GS has about the same size army as we do now. [18:18] -BetaHound> So - if this thing is going to be won - we need supprt - and not just GoW and two horsemen. [18:19] -BigFree> I just got word from GoW that they have found a short cut for our Galleys to cross to Estonia, so help could be there quicker,we have 1 galley ready now and another in 2 turns I beleive. [18:19] -BetaHound> And - I'm sure the others have figured this out as well - if we go down - GS wil have the whole of Estonia shortly. [18:19] -BetaHound> They are the main threat in this game. [18:19] -BetaHound> We - all of us - have to take them out. [18:20] -BetaHound> Agreed? [18:20] -BigFree> We are commited to sending 6 units, it could be 8 depending on events [18:20] -BigFree> yes, agreed [18:20] -BetaHound> We had ideas on the crossing as well. [18:20] -BigFree> We have to get GoW to commit also [18:20] -BetaHound> You will need to cross 4 sea tiles. [18:21] -BigFree> I've been working MZ over trying to get Feud early from them. [18:21] -BetaHound> yes - agreed. They have been - a bit reluctant to jump in all the way. [18:21] -BetaHound> Us too. And we are at war. Really pisses us off. We caould use pikemen big time. [18:21] -BigFree> 4 sea tiles is not a completely 'safe' route, is it? [18:21] -BetaHound> nope [18:21] -BigFree> I've been trying to get it for both of us [18:22] -BetaHound> But HarryH cam up with a greta plan. [18:22] -BetaHound> You move a galley one tile into the sea - where on its next move it can reach the GS shore. No units in it. Then ... [18:23] -BetaHound> on the next turn, a second galley moves adjacent to it - with two units aboard - transfers them (and this can be done btw), and the first galley completes the crossing. [18:24] -BetaHound> This way - if the galley does not survive the one turn in the sea tuile - no units are lost. [18:24] -BigFree> Cool, great idea! GoW is not committed to this war if they don't give up Feud to us soon; they are at war with GS so the rep hit is minimal, isn't it? [18:24] -BetaHound> yes - exactly. I think they have this warped code of honor about respecting the no-trade-for-10-turn clasue. [18:25] -BetaHound> Wit a team they are at war with??? [18:25] -BigFree> If they wait till the end of the no trade clause, it will be 6 more turns till we can get it I believe. [18:25] -BigFree> EXACTLY! [18:25] -BetaHound> Something like that. [18:25] * NuclearisWinterius has joined #RPVox [18:25] -BigFree> hey [18:25] -NuclearisWinterius> Sorry mrs [18:25] -BigFree> he's back [18:25] -BigFree> [18:25] -NuclearisWinterius> HAd some trouble with my pc [18:25] -NuclearisWinterius> :/ [18:26] -BetaHound> We are still arming up. Losses have been minimal - and another 12-14 immortals are joining the ranks shortly. [18:26] -BigFree> I've really been working over MZ onthe deal thouhg [18:26] -BetaHound> but against the pikemen - it is suicide. [18:26] -BetaHound> We will try from our end too. [18:26] -BigFree> I keep coming up with schemes on how they can deal us Feud while keeping their rep [18:27] -BetaHound> If the intent is to kill GS, what do they care. There are no AI's in the game. [18:27] -BigFree> I suggested that Vox claim it researched it themselves and then sold it to RP [18:27] -NuclearisWinterius> Indeed [18:27] -BigFree> that would clear GoW [18:27] -BetaHound> Not bad. [18:27] -NuclearisWinterius> I am very confused by the actions of hte Warmonmongers [18:27] -BigFree> no way to check that other than us ratting them out [18:27] -BetaHound> GS does not know we are doing eng. [18:27] -BigFree> right [18:27] -BetaHound> NW - me too. [18:28] -BigFree> hehe; I even suggested that RP had :saved" a goody hut, and popped it! [18:28] -BetaHound> Their landing was un-cordinated, unannounced, and cost us troops trying to protect them. [18:28] -BetaHound> [18:29] -BigFree> The landing was one of opportunity I think. They may have seen unprotected cities and gave it a shot..... [18:29] -BetaHound> The original plan was for GoW to go south - they landed between the first and seciond cities down - right in the midst of a pile of troops. [18:29] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, I knwo your team is made of conservative ppl who dislike giving maps away, but some maps, specially of the sea , would be of great help [18:29] -BetaHound> No problem - we will send the world map next turn. [18:29] -BigFree> [18:30] -BetaHound> BF and I were talking about how to get galleys across. We have a reasonabl eplan. [18:30] -NuclearisWinterius> Sincerely ; tell me, is it true what GS is saying about starting to pick up speed and slowing you guys? Keep in mind we won´t change our plans of attacking, even if , in an hypothethical theorization, Vox would fall [18:30] -NuclearisWinterius> We´d keep fighting [18:31] -BetaHound> They grew much faster than we expected. [18:31] -NuclearisWinterius> I had a plan, and I think I could get our galleys in estonia pretty fast, but I need another piece of map [18:31] -BetaHound> And pikemen were a problem. [18:31] -NuclearisWinterius> How many Voxian losses? [18:32] -BetaHound> We should have gone some 10-15 turns earlier. [18:32] -BetaHound> 5 immortals. 4 regual and one vet (me). [18:32] -BetaHound> just a sec - got the car on the key bd [18:32] -NuclearisWinterius> BTW, I must say I was pretty much impressed at Vox´s minuteimortal tactic [18:32] -BetaHound> cat [18:33] -BetaHound> [18:33] -BigFree> The plan BH proposed only costs us a Galley if it fails, not any units; else it would take forever to get there to do any good. The Tech sharing plan we propsed would have to be a completely secret deal; It would benefit us both as RP sees Vox as very long lived Allies. [18:33] -BetaHound> There - got him to lay down. [18:33] -NuclearisWinterius> Hehe, evil cat [18:33] -BetaHound> yes - and we are still using it. Another batch of 14 on the way. [18:34] -BetaHound> So - minmal losses. The army is largely intact. But we are stalemated. [18:34] -BetaHound> We can't venture onto the plains because of WC's [18:34] -NuclearisWinterius> you can no longer pocket them as you said you would, eh? [18:34] -BetaHound> and we can't directly assault a city becasue of pikes and pults [18:34] -BetaHound> nope - no can do. [18:35] -BetaHound> They reacted very quickly. [18:35] -BetaHound> Hats off to them. [18:35] -NuclearisWinterius> THis is were GoW did stupid things [18:35] -BetaHound> Like I say - 10 turns earlier would have made a difference. And off-line, a number of GS folks have said the same thing. [18:36] -NuclearisWinterius> Now they are sure to guard their 6 , hadn´t GOW done such a careless action we would have their backs open [18:36] -BetaHound> GoW is now planning to stockpile troops in our treritory. This has stated. 2 horsemen have landed. [18:36] -BetaHound> NW - yes. [18:36] -NuclearisWinterius> I still think the key is a southern disembark [18:37] -NuclearisWinterius> If I understood your continent correctly, teh end is sort of V shaped [18:37] -BetaHound> Which will be tough. [18:37] -BetaHound> The crossing will be mid-continent. [18:37] -BigFree> BH, RP is commited to helping erase GS form the map, but we both know GoW is needed to to completely ensure this though; What can we tell them that would help them be more enthusiastic about the plan? [18:38] -BetaHound> Yes - it would help. [18:38] -BigFree> A southern landing would require all galleys to go at once and one at a time [18:38] -BetaHound> We have even put pressure on NeuD. [18:38] -BigFree> *not one at a time [18:38] -BetaHound> Then you risk losing the units at sea. [18:38] -BigFree> right [18:39] -BigFree> so, it's best if we land behind the lines also [18:39] -BetaHound> But we do not have a map of the southern part of the continent. [18:39] -BetaHound> GoW had the chance - and turned back too early. [18:40] -NuclearisWinterius> Well beta [18:40] -BetaHound> We are a bit wary.... [18:40] -NuclearisWinterius> IF we crossed the ocean to your coast [18:40] -BetaHound> 3 things ... [18:40] -BetaHound> GoW did not sail south [18:40] -NuclearisWinterius> we could follow the coast to GS´s south [18:40] -BetaHound> they landed where their units were easily killed [18:40] -BetaHound> and they have not traded feud. Hmmm.. [18:41] -BigFree> we quick sail the units over 2 at a time for the first 4 to land in Vox controlled territory; if things go well we might be able to send 4 more right after. [18:41] -NuclearisWinterius> MAybe they want to paly the dead fish [18:41] -BigFree> we are concerned with GoW action too, but we might dismiss it as them jsut being them.... [18:41] -BetaHound> Ho about I send you a screenshot now for discussion. [18:42] -BetaHound> I agree about GoW. i don't think they want to see GS win. [18:42] -NuclearisWinterius> Ok [18:42] -NuclearisWinterius> Would be great [18:42] -BetaHound> They are hedging their bets. [18:42] -BigFree> right [18:42] -BetaHound> e-mails [18:42] -NuclearisWinterius> crono_theswordsman@bol.com.br [18:42] -BigFree> bigfree1@attbi.com [18:43] -BetaHound> k - 3-4 minutes. [18:43] -BigFree> [18:44] -BigFree> we should work on a corodinated plan to bet GoW to sell us Feud; it's our best bet right now. I believe I got MZ sold at leats partially on the idea, we just need to have you seel it from you end as hard also. [18:45] -NuclearisWinterius> is poly down for you guys too? [18:45] -BigFree> yep [18:48] -NuclearisWinterius> funny, the page that I´ve bookmarked opens! [18:49] -BigFree> it cached [18:49] -NuclearisWinterius> Darn it! I can´t find my PTW cd [18:49] -BigFree> nope, poly is back up [18:49] -BetaHound> screenshot on its way - jpg [18:49] -NuclearisWinterius> oh yah! [18:51] -NuclearisWinterius> received screenie [18:51] -BetaHound> Ignore the classified stuff on there - OK? [18:52] -BigFree> lol [18:52] -NuclearisWinterius> ok, I´m gonna erase that with paint brush [18:52] -BetaHound> thanks - you are good friends. [18:52] -BetaHound> so - you see the problem. [18:52] -BetaHound> No safe crossing. [18:52] -NuclearisWinterius> Tell me, what is teh size of the stack on that mountain, between arashi and whirlwind [18:53] -BetaHound> 7 [18:53] -BetaHound> use to be 12 - but that is where the 5 casulaties came from. [18:53] -NuclearisWinterius> all Immortals? [18:53] -BigFree> we will use you idea from(I forgot), but thanks for the idea. [18:53] -BetaHound> We moved down to the plains to try and draw GS's attanetion away from GoWE. Did not work. [18:54] -BetaHound> HarryH. [18:54] -BigFree> right [18:54] -BigFree> tell hims thanks [18:54] -BetaHound> You could land in our territory - and stockpile units - or crossover - then head south. To seehwta you can see. [18:54] -BetaHound> will do [18:55] -BetaHound> 'see what' [18:55] -BetaHound> At the very top right you can see the base of the mountain where GoW is stockpiling. [18:55] -BigFree> Unless there's a mountain tile on the coast that is out of range of any cities, then we should porolly land in you territorry and coordinate an attack [18:56] -BetaHound> But it lets them concentrate their defence. That s the only downside. [18:56] -BigFree> to bad we can't with you units also... [18:56] -BigFree> *stack [18:56] -BetaHound> If we could stretch the defence - that would be useful. [18:56] -BetaHound> yes - agreed. [18:57] -BigFree> If we bring efense down to the South then that's good for you; divide and conquer I always say [18:57] -BetaHound> What are the survival chances in sea tiles - anyone know. [18:57] -BigFree> I can check quick [18:57] -NuclearisWinterius> I was looking for that one... [18:58] -BetaHound> BF - yes. If we and GoW come down from the north - and you land in strength in the south. ... [18:58] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, according to this, monsoon s empty, right? [18:58] -BetaHound> yup [18:58] -NuclearisWinterius> why havn´t you seized it yet? [18:58] -BetaHound> can't. No horsemen. [18:59] -BetaHound> Anyone who moves to the plains get keilled. [18:59] -NuclearisWinterius> Maybe we could land in those mountains and seize it, then hand it over to you guys, for you to defend [19:00] -BetaHound> We have a plan - that you can help with- or GoW. Land on the mountain se of the fish. Move onto our roads with a RoP. Then zip down - take the city. Gift it to us on your turn. Then we could use road movement to get troops into it. [19:00] -NuclearisWinterius> OR, if we got Pikemen, we could just simply march int the plains and smash any chance of counterattack form tehm [19:01] -NuclearisWinterius> Or do it through the sea [19:01] -BetaHound> That is why we would like pikemen. With a stack of pikemen and 12-18 Immortals, we would not worry about chariots. [19:01] -BigFree> yep [19:01] -NuclearisWinterius> You see the hill square NW of the worker? [19:01] -BetaHound> yup [19:02] -BigFree> godamn GoW, i'm really going to let them have it for atlling like this [19:02] -BigFree> *stalling [19:02] -BetaHound> and atlling too!!! [19:02] -BetaHound> [19:02] -BigFree> screw therei rep, they are at WAR! [19:02] -BigFree> [19:02] -BigFree> Hey, I know I can't type! [19:02] -BetaHound> NW - your hill? [19:02] -NuclearisWinterius> What does republic has to do with it? [19:02] -BetaHound> not rep - feud. [19:03] -NuclearisWinterius> hehe, no, the northwest [19:03] -BigFree> reputation [19:03] -NuclearisWinterius> Bah [19:03] -BetaHound> exactly!! [19:03] -NuclearisWinterius> Ok, they try to invade them and then come with moralties? [19:03] -BetaHound> NW - the NW. [19:03] -BetaHound> [19:03] -BigFree> GoW has said they are worrie about a rep hit if they seel Feud to RP and GoW [19:03] -BetaHound> NW = now what? [19:03] -BigFree> *Vox [19:04] -NuclearisWinterius> Why? [19:04] -BetaHound> so NW - NW - so NW? [19:04] -NuclearisWinterius> There is no in game deal not to sell thing [19:04] -BigFree> Ok, one converstaion at a time, we are going back and forth. [19:04] -BetaHound> nope- it is all out of game.

	04-05-2003 10:41									#307
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: [19:04] -BetaHound> [19:04] -NuclearisWinterius> Bah them! [19:05] -BetaHound> NW - your hill. I can't wait any longer. [19:05] -BigFree> GoW is most worried what Lego will think of them if they sell Feud early, at least that is what they claim.... [19:05] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, I can´t understand you no more! [19:05] -BetaHound> why? [19:06] -NuclearisWinterius> ´´NW - your hill. I can't wait any longer.´´ What can´t you wait for? [19:06] -BetaHound> NW - you siad "You see that hill NW of the worker?" [19:06] -BigFree> NW he's answer both of us on the same line but with two sentences. [19:07] -BetaHound> OK - NW first. [19:07] -BigFree> you guys talk, i idle [19:07] -NuclearisWinterius> You see the hill northwest of the worker? [19:07] -BetaHound> YES! [19:07] -BetaHound> [19:07] -NuclearisWinterius> We land there, then attack monoose [19:07] -NuclearisWinterius> or whatever [19:08] -NuclearisWinterius> So no need for us to land on them mountain [19:08] -BetaHound> You land there - I guarantee you there will be approx 6 catapults, 6 pikemen, and a handful of chariots in the city next turn. [19:08] -NuclearisWinterius> that hill is faster [19:08] -NuclearisWinterius> although maybe tehy are guarding it now [19:09] -BetaHound> just a sec... [19:09] -BetaHound> they can only get there from Arashi. [19:10] -BetaHound> So - if we went back to that same tile - in bewteen the two cities with force - they would be hard pressed to defend all three. [19:10] -BetaHound> Or if we had pikemen - we just coime down from the mouuntains and park ourselves on the road. [19:11] -BetaHound> The tile being the one we are on now. the 7 immortals. [19:11] -NuclearisWinterius> Ok, finished erasing teh secret info, now I can take a better look at it [19:12] -BetaHound> The other plan - is you land on fish mountain - take a few turns - bring lots. Gow does the same. And then we coo-ordinate our moves forward. [19:13] -BetaHound> Two stacks of Voxian troops, one of Spain, and one of GoW. [19:14] -NuclearisWinterius> I don´t know if This move would be wise [19:14] -BetaHound> which - the hill move - or fish mountain? [19:14] -NuclearisWinterius> Every second we waste is another war chariot, another pike [19:14] -NuclearisWinterius> fish mountain [19:14] -NuclearisWinterius> I am curently analysing the hill [19:14] -BetaHound> and two more immortals. [19:15] -BetaHound> But I agree with your point. And we have it on quasi-reliable info that they are reseraching chiv. [19:15] -BetaHound> [19:16] -NuclearisWinterius> Chivalry won´t come too soon [19:16] -BetaHound> Why do you say that? [19:16] -NuclearisWinterius> it is an expensive tech [19:16] -NuclearisWinterius> besides, te tiime it takes to build knights... [19:16] -NuclearisWinterius> even to upgrade tehm [19:16] -BetaHound> Agreed. [19:17] -NuclearisWinterius> But as I said, every second is another load of fuel into them [19:17] -BetaHound> OH and you know GS got SunTzu's [19:17] -BetaHound> [19:19] -BetaHound> Well - we will have doubled the size of our attack force in about 6 turns. So any timing works for us. Just don't think gow will have much to bring to the party by then. [19:20] -NuclearisWinterius> SOmething came to my mind,,, what if they have units over those strategic hills? [19:21] -NuclearisWinterius> Yousee, while the worker is there, we can´t land on that hill, [19:21] -NuclearisWinterius> And the otehr two are unknown [19:23] -BetaHound> They may. [19:24] -BetaHound> I like fish mountain. The one area we have always been able to get GS is on their own self-assuredness. They have good reason mind you. [19:24] -BetaHound> So.. [19:25] -BetaHound> If you can stockpile there without being seen. And same for GoW. And I don't think GS really knows our production capacity yet - we coud set them up for a surprise. Even catch them when they attack - wich would be the best. [19:25] -BigFree> I think that is the best plan [19:26] -BetaHound> Landing elsewhere sets you up for a gOW disaster - only on a larger scale. [19:26] -BetaHound> And without horsemen - we cannot react quickly to help. [19:26] -BigFree> yep [19:27] -BetaHound> It would help if we roaded those mountain tiles. [19:27] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, how is your prod going BTW [19:27] -BigFree> I think we are settled on where we will land [19:27] -BetaHound> Our prod - full steam ahead. [19:27] -NuclearisWinterius> Well, lemme see somethign [19:28] -NuclearisWinterius> Idea : [19:28] -BetaHound> We can if we want - produce approximately 4-5 warriors per turn. The problems is the cost of upgrading. [19:28] -NuclearisWinterius> If we could bring 2 horsemen to that mountain [19:28] -BetaHound> So - we have mixed in a number of spearmen [19:28] -NuclearisWinterius> Wouldn´t it solve the problems? [19:28] -BetaHound> and even another galley. [19:28] -BetaHound> how so? [19:29] -NuclearisWinterius> we land 2 horsies on Iron [19:29] -NuclearisWinterius> ironmtn [19:29] -NuclearisWinterius> and go for monsoon [19:29] -NuclearisWinterius> but they could see us [19:30] -BetaHound> That is why you land on fish mountain - they can't see u. [19:30] -BetaHound> Then you use the road network to move down and take it. [19:30] -BetaHound> The one probelem is ... [19:31] -BetaHound> we would have to move off of our roaded mountain tile for you to do it - and they would probably grab the tile. [19:31] -BigFree> whats the turn order, does GS go after you or do we go before GS after you move? [19:32] -BetaHound> GS - RP - Vox. [19:32] -BigFree> not good [19:32] -BetaHound> GS - NeuD - GoW - RP - Vox - Lego. [19:32] -BetaHound> nope - not good [19:32] -BigFree> if you were before usit would be good [19:33] -BigFree> what if you road ironmnt? [19:33] -BetaHound> yup. But then we would not be able to get defenders int o the city before they took it back. [19:33] -BetaHound> That is the best plan - road both iron mtn and fish mtn. [19:34] -BigFree> we raze the ****er [19:34] -BetaHound> That works too. [19:34] -BigFree> [19:35] -BetaHound> I still like the idea of simul. attacks by all allies. [19:35] -BigFree> we want to eliminate them, completely, no chance for turning or any other BS [19:35] -BetaHound> Agreed [19:35] -BigFree> I think we are off to a good start here. [19:35] -BigFree> Perhaps we could get GoW rep to join a 3-way battle plan conference.... [19:36] -BetaHound> Yup - I will forward a world map on our next turn. [19:36] -BigFree> cool [19:36] -BetaHound> Yes - that would be good. Might put some backbone into them. [19:36] -BigFree> and we could cordinate a plan to get feud [19:36] -BetaHound> BF - what was that about feud and Lego earlier. [19:37] -BigFree> GoW is most wooried about therir reputaion with Lego mostly [19:37] -BetaHound> no need. Lego likes GoW fairly well. [19:37] -NuclearisWinterius> So you sending teh World map accepted next turn eh? [19:37] -BigFree> they think lego is major tech player and don't wnat lego to shut them out of the tech game beause they have a bad rep [19:37] -BetaHound> yup [19:38] -NuclearisWinterius> goos [19:38] -BetaHound> ah... [19:38] -NuclearisWinterius> good [19:38] -BetaHound> goos too. [19:38] -BetaHound> [19:38] -BigFree> you killing me with that ****! [19:38] -NuclearisWinterius> Is LEgo part of ´´The Allies´´? [19:38] -BetaHound> Yes and no. [19:38] -NuclearisWinterius> Indeed, funny as hell beta [19:38] -BigFree> they are happy being isolated I thingk [19:38] -BetaHound> They have been supprtive of us. [19:39] -BigFree> if they can get on board too....phew; GS is dead meat!!! [19:39] -BetaHound> Ye s- I think they like to stay on teh sidelines. [19:39] -BetaHound> I can work on that. [19:39] -NuclearisWinterius> are tehy backing up teh $? [19:39] -BetaHound> What about NeuD? [19:39] -NuclearisWinterius> BTW, when do you guys get a galley on this side of the sea? [19:39] -BigFree> I think they like the idea of GS going down, but if they can let other;s do it, then better for them [19:40] -BetaHound> BF - yes. NW - never have? Why do you ask? [19:40] -BetaHound> We had one earlier - but only up north. [19:41] -BigFree> ND?? Not sure about them for now, they are quiet to our mesages mostly [19:41] -NuclearisWinterius> HAd you an galey you could do some scouting... [19:41] -BetaHound> Us too. mav_son is very quiet. I like borc and darekill better. [19:41] -BigFree> we could set up some trades for luxeries maybe if we had sea route [19:42] -BetaHound> NW - understood. This turn. From Elipolis - about three tiles north of the top of the mao, [19:42] -BetaHound> map [19:42] -BetaHound> We have no luxuries. [19:42] -BetaHound> [19:42] -BetaHound> no horses. [19:42] -BigFree> hmmm [19:43] -BigFree> maybe we have extra horsies....I have to look [19:43] -BetaHound> and iron is from a colony half way down the continent - other side from the one you see. [19:43] -BigFree> right [19:43] -BetaHound> we have one incense - sorry. [19:43] -BigFree> we can hook you up possibly with dyes in the future [19:43] -BetaHound> And little land. It was a bad start - regardless og what GS says. [19:44] -BigFree> yeah, the map should ahve been human made.... [19:44] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta , what do you think of this : Some team throws some Warriors at unroaded grassland :Lots of very cheap units. They have to kill them with W chariots but war chariots end tehir movement killing them. Then, you guys go and kill their WC force [19:44] -BetaHound> But it is essentially an island fortress - so we should be hard to take out - that is one blessing. [19:44] -BetaHound> But we can't get to them. That is the problem. [19:44] -BigFree> I'll be away for 10 minutes [19:45] -BigFree> sorry [19:45] -BetaHound> k [19:45] -NuclearisWinterius> If we landed there [19:45] -NuclearisWinterius> We land, say, 6 warriors [19:45] -BetaHound> yes [19:45] -NuclearisWinterius> AFAIk the WC base is at Arashi [19:46] -BetaHound> and tempest too we think [19:46] -NuclearisWinterius> They will have to kill tehm, or elseWe take mosoon [19:46] -NuclearisWinterius> Tempest is just too far to act there [19:47] -BetaHound> They will kill them - and probably have one move left over to get back into towns. That is what happend with our troops. Nothing left to look at. [19:47] -BetaHound> We lost 5 units - from two tiles - and there was nothing left to see. [19:48] -BetaHound> I think the better plan is pikemen - in which case the chariots probably lose - and they will have to use ground trrops, and then we would have something to attack. [19:48] -NuclearisWinterius> Even if they kill, the point is : Their WC´s will be out right in front of you guys [19:49] -NuclearisWinterius> And your counterattack would cost ´em many units [19:49] -BetaHound> No they won't. They can move and attack with the first MP, and still have enough left over to get back to Arashi. That's what they did last time. [19:49] -NuclearisWinterius> Whenyou attack, if there is still an enemy in the tile, you don´t advance, [19:49] -BetaHound> If it is your first MP - you can still move. [19:50] -BetaHound> So they zip out - kill who they can - and move back int the twon where pikemen can protect them. [19:51] -NuclearisWinterius> Lemme think [19:51] -NuclearisWinterius> I am sorry if I am bothering you, but I want to think of every possibility [19:52] -BetaHound> No problem. We have been racking our brains out too. Listen - do you think we could twist NeuD's arm into joi [19:52] -BetaHound> ning the crusade. [19:52] -NuclearisWinterius> I don´t think so... [19:53] -NuclearisWinterius> I believe they have other things in mind right now... [19:53] -BetaHound> Like? [19:53] -NuclearisWinterius> Maybe if you tryed to buy them joining in after we and GoW openly joined... [19:54] -NuclearisWinterius> I am not sure, but that is the feel I´ve got from it [19:54] -BetaHound> Ah - that might work. They would not feel so .. threatened at home - so to speak. [19:54] -NuclearisWinterius> Indeed [19:54] -BetaHound> hmmm [19:54] -NuclearisWinterius> Terra Nostra is a land of the mad [19:55] -BetaHound> The angle I have tried to take with them os that when this is all over - people will remember their friends. [19:55] -BetaHound> 'this' being the Estonian war. [19:55] -NuclearisWinterius> Indeed [19:55] -BetaHound> So - they should get on the bandwagon now. [19:56] -NuclearisWinterius> Like teh USA For france at WWI & WWII [19:56] -BetaHound> [19:56] -BetaHound> Canada was already there. [19:56] -BetaHound> Couldn't resist. [19:57] -NuclearisWinterius> well, of course! Canada was a very close friend to England D [19:57] -BetaHound> More loke a colony. [19:57] -BetaHound> like [19:57] -NuclearisWinterius> Jsut to clarify, I am not merican [19:57] -BetaHound> No - I know. Where are you? [19:57] -NuclearisWinterius> Brazil [19:58] -NuclearisWinterius> Betaaaaa, can´t you pretty please send a Screenie more to the west??? retty please [19:58] -BetaHound> ah - you and Aro. What part? [19:58] -NuclearisWinterius> I am From São Paulo [19:58] -NuclearisWinterius> You are from wich city? [19:59] -BetaHound> Toronto. Currently doing battle with the W.H.O. [19:59] -NuclearisWinterius> WHO? [19:59] -BetaHound> World Health Organization. And the SARS travel advosry. [19:59] -BetaHound> advisory. [19:59] -NuclearisWinterius> Aww, [20:00] -NuclearisWinterius> IN fact, I was really impressed at canada, I tought your health system could satnd up to quite much more [20:00] -BetaHound> It did and could. It was contained very well. The probelem was it took a while for the original cases from asia to be identifeied. [20:01] -BetaHound> Then there was some initial spread - but it was quickly contained. [20:02] -BetaHound> All the cases stem from that first exposure (friends and family), health workers involved, and some very stupid doctor who went to a church service while he was ill. ;( [20:02] -NuclearisWinterius> ;( [20:03] -NuclearisWinterius> Regarding ND, are you guys sure ND could bring help? [20:03] -BetaHound> one sec - new screen shot. [20:04] -NuclearisWinterius> Great [20:05] -NuclearisWinterius> http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/rh...arytales.html#6 [20:05] -NuclearisWinterius> take a look at that lyric! [20:06] -BetaHound> how do you copy something out of the chat log? [20:06] -BigFree> yes [20:06] -NuclearisWinterius> Well, open the log, select it, ctrl+v and ctrl+V [20:06] -BigFree> just highlite and continue to hold down the the mouse button while pressing cntl c [20:07] -NuclearisWinterius> it being teh thing you wanna copy [20:08] -BetaHound> crono_theswordsman@bol.com.br ; bigfree1@attbi.com [20:09] -BigFree> I that waht you wanted to copy [20:09] -BetaHound> No - that was from the screen shot e-mail on its way. NW twisted my arm into a more revealing picture. [20:11] -BetaHound> Land of the Immortals - very good. Thanks! As information Minister - I can always use new matreial. But it is very poetic. [20:11] -BetaHound> Probably too much so for the Minsiter of Information to use. [20:11] -BigFree> lol [20:12] -BigFree> you are making this game very fun with those reports, btw [20:12] -BetaHound> [20:12] -BigFree> It'll even be more fun to have GS's tail between their legs!

	04-05-2003 10:44									#308
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: [20:12] -BetaHound> btw - there are 8 more units just north of the top most immortal you can see on the shot- but I wanted to get their capitol in the shot. [20:13] -BetaHound> yes - it will. [20:13] -BetaHound> And you can see the two GoW horsemen. [20:13] -BetaHound> And the galley standoff. [20:13] -BigFree> Maybe send GoW some of these, to convince them of you total commitment to GS destruction... [20:14] -BetaHound> They get our world map every turn. [20:14] -BetaHound> They have seen the roops heading south - they fabricated false troop reports (we think) to GS before the last invasion. [20:15] -BetaHound> They can see from the mil advisor that we have a larger army than they do. [20:15] -BigFree> they get your WM, but do they get screens showing your troops and the amounts of them? [20:15] -BetaHound> But - if a screen shot does it - I have no issue with it. [20:15] -BigFree> that could help them [20:16] -BetaHound> Do you sense that they are questioning our commitement. [20:16] -BigFree> they could even have suspicions that the war is fake and GS and Vox will invade and Take GoW out! They are that paranoid, at least they are the type to believe the lost wild random **** if it involves treachery. [20:17] -BetaHound> Especially after we lost a pile of units covering their asses. Inluding Beta the Bold and his two cats Olly and Simon. [20:17] -BigFree> They just overanalyze things and try to play everysingle angle at the same time [20:17] -BetaHound> My whole family was wiped out on the plains. [20:18] -NuclearisWinterius> HAs it arived yet? [20:18] -BetaHound> Yes - that sounds like them. [20:18] -BigFree> so some screens could at least allay some of those concerns even if they are far fetched [20:18] -BetaHound> Left here at 8:08 pm. [20:19] -BetaHound> I find them very opportunistic. They paid GS 200 gold, just before the start of the war - for feudalism. [20:19] -BetaHound> And they don't even need it. [20:19] -BetaHound> Right yet. [20:20] -BetaHound> So - yes - a joint coincil of war is a great idea. [20:20] -BigFree> I think they wanted to start on Chiv [20:20] -BetaHound> yes - agreed. [20:20] -BigFree> there UU is around the corner [20:20] -NuclearisWinterius> HAs you Screenarrived yet? [20:20] -BetaHound> yup - same with NeuD. [20:21] -BetaHound> They get theirs with chiv too, do they not? [20:21] -BigFree> i got the scren from BH [20:21] -BigFree> 2 of them [20:22] -BigFree> Yes ND has chiv UU too [20:22] -BetaHound> hmmm - why does my e-mail have the wrong time on it. It wass 11:08 pm, not 8:08 pm. [20:23] * Togas has joined #rpvox [20:23] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, didn´t you send me teh screenshot? [20:23] -Togas> greetings [20:23] -BetaHound> yup - I did. Hey Togas. [20:23] -Togas> I just wanted to observe [20:23] -NuclearisWinterius> I did not receive it [20:24] -BetaHound> it is titled #2. Did you get it BF? [20:24] -BigFree> yes [20:24] -BigFree> long time ago; at :08 after the hour [20:24] -BetaHound> Can you forward it to NW - just to make sure. [20:25] -BigFree> sure [20:25] -BetaHound> I will resend as well. [20:25] -NuclearisWinterius> DOn´t .Lemme see something [20:26] -BigFree> just sent to NW [20:27] -NuclearisWinterius> Received the one form BEta [20:27] -NuclearisWinterius> My mail server was with problem [20:27] -BetaHound> oops - sent again. Now you will have three versions. [20:28] -NuclearisWinterius> Cool [20:28] -BetaHound> OK - so a council of war. RP- GoW - and Vox. [20:28] -BigFree> yep [20:28] -BetaHound> Tomorrow night. [20:28] -BigFree> good for me [20:29] -BetaHound> I have to find some live Voxians - it has been tough lately. [20:29] -BetaHound> Lot of students finishing off the year. [20:29] -BigFree> maybe you should send them a PM about *wink wink* you researching Feud and selling it to us. [20:29] -NuclearisWinterius> You madlings finishing the year at the middle of it [20:30] -BetaHound> [20:30] -BetaHound> PM to who? GoW? [20:30] -BigFree> yes [20:30] -BigFree> MZ [20:30] -BigFree> that way the idea is commiog from two places [20:30] -BetaHound> We have already committed to buying it from them for 75 gold. [20:31] -BetaHound> [20:31] -BigFree> I know, we wnat it early, this is way to justify it to rest of civs so their rep isn't hurt [20:31] -BetaHound> OH - Ok - I'm slow on the uptake. [20:31] -BigFree> [20:31] -NuclearisWinterius> 4 furs at tehir bloody capital! I can´t believe it! [20:32] -BetaHound> Well - they are a weak team after all. They needed a few advantages. Look at the flood plains and food production. [20:32] -BetaHound> Hey - we have one incense. [20:32] -BigFree> If I had their start.... [20:32] -BetaHound> Exactly. [20:33] -BetaHound> And all their moaning at the start of this war.... [20:33] -BetaHound> It was enough to make even this Information Minister sick. [20:33] -BigFree> ) [20:33] -BetaHound> Hey - Togas - great map for the SPDG. [20:34] -BetaHound> Man - was Uber ever upset. [20:34] -Togas> Uber was pissing me off. [20:34] -NuclearisWinterius> It seems to be cool [20:34] -Togas> when you see the whole thing, I think you'll like it [20:34] -BetaHound> I almost called him on that 'dolt' comment. It was uncalled for. [20:35] -NuclearisWinterius> ThoughIsland hopping would´ve been easier, it seems this one has got lots of eyecandies [20:35] -BigFree> they oted for that many civs it his fault not your Togas [20:35] -BetaHound> I like it now. I have a sense of what the land will look like. [20:35] -NuclearisWinterius> In fact, I saw no problems so far [20:35] -BetaHound> We just need to survive the early going. [20:35] -NuclearisWinterius> It is much mre challenging than the last one [20:35] -BigFree> I think we are dead meat [20:36] -BetaHound> Really? [20:36] -BigFree> yep [20:36] -BigFree> too many othe civs [20:36] -NuclearisWinterius> Defeat thinking is not allowed! I´ll call teh rep guard [20:36] -Togas> all of the other civs start out with A TON of units in the beginning [20:36] -BigFree> we won't make the next 20-25 turns [20:36] -NuclearisWinterius> We will [20:36] -BetaHound> I think we need to make an early alliance. [20:36] -Togas> and we're "mil weak" compared to them, which makes us an obvious target. [20:37] -BigFree> ype the AI has us top on their lists [20:37] -BetaHound> So - Don's tight city plan- with lots of units. [20:37] -NuclearisWinterius> Just need a very active FAM [20:37] -Togas> Poly can survive if it gets some luck (and I have no idea why all those goodie huts we left in the area turned up empty. WTF?) [20:37] -BetaHound> NW - yes! [20:37] -BetaHound> yes - almost as bad as the ISDG. [20:37] -Togas> and hopefully the AI goes to war against each other. [20:38] -BetaHound> That is our best bet. [20:38] -BigFree> they will, after we are gone [20:38] -BigFree> [20:38] -NuclearisWinterius> With all those units running around , well, you know, the tribesmen got scared and run away! [20:38] -NuclearisWinterius> [20:38] -BigFree> sorry for being pessimsitic [20:38] -NuclearisWinterius> Big Free, Let us think corageous and bold! [20:38] -BigFree> I will still show up and figh tto the death [20:38] -BigFree> [20:38] -NuclearisWinterius> MAY TYR SLAHS THEIR THROATS! [20:38] -NuclearisWinterius> URAAAH [20:39] -BetaHound> Meanwhile - back on earth ....OK - so we don't figure we can rope NeuD into our alliance. [20:39] -BigFree> Maybe we should diband our Cities like Trip did? [20:39] -BetaHound> ;( [20:39] -BigFree> ND is a non-player [20:39] -BigFree> no easte coast city [20:40] -BigFree> units travel would be forever [20:40] -NuclearisWinterius> I can´t believe it, a chat of teh VIking team, with the most poreminent Warmonmongers, adn they all saying ´´Oh I am such a poor young lady with this soo hard game! I want an easier map, one that I can sleep my arse over and win´´ [20:40] -BigFree> The only way ND could help, is with gold [20:40] -BetaHound> I am somewhat worried that GoW - being as opportunistic as they are - may see a GoW -NeuD- GS alliance vs RP and Vox. [20:41] -BigFree> that's far fetched, but not beyond GoW's minds [20:41] -NuclearisWinterius> I don´t think GOW has the naval apparatus to attack you [20:42] -Togas> GS isn't that active diplomaticly [20:42] -Togas> GS isn't pleased with GoW's most recent horse drops [20:42] -BigFree> I think GoW is more worried of a Vox-ND alliance or just ND alone [20:42] -Togas> ND & GoW aren't very close diplomaticly. [20:43] -NuclearisWinterius> In fact, GOW seems to have lots of atriction with ND [20:43] -BigFree> GoW hates GS, I'm sure of that [20:43] -BetaHound> yes - that is my take too. [20:43] -Togas> I'll be around. Need to get some things cleaned up. [20:43] -BetaHound> So - we go with the three of us. And I will continue tp pressure NeuD about financial help. [20:43] * Togas is now known as TogasIDLE [20:44] -BetaHound> I am already leaning on them quite heavily. [20:44] -BigFree> right [20:44] -BetaHound> They got fairly defensive - ib a friendly way - about my last message. [20:44] -BigFree> What are you going to offer to ND in return? [20:44] -BetaHound> Saying they were praying for us and had written letters of support, etc tec. [20:45] -BigFree> hmm, interesting [20:45] -BetaHound> That we will be friendly towrads them when all this is over. And we offered them engineering at a somehwta higher price than you I think. They were not interested. [20:45] -BigFree> They are likey saving Gold for a UU upgrade bonaza; getting gold from them will be tough [20:46] -BetaHound> That's what I figure too. [20:46] -BetaHound> And they would be happy to watch all the other civs bonking heads. [20:46] -BigFree> just like Lego... [20:46] -BigFree> I think it's just going to be us three [20:46] -BetaHound> But that is what we need to make clear to them - sitting on the fence is not aviable long term option. [20:47] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta I´d press Darekill rather than theyr actual leader [20:47] -BetaHound> yes - he is ... weird. [20:47] -BigFree> does weird=jerk? [20:47] -BetaHound> that too. [20:47] -BigFree> [20:47] -NuclearisWinterius> DD [20:48] -BetaHound> OK - so we need to round up some GoW types. They like chatting. [20:48] -NuclearisWinterius> Ich bin ein Cannuck! Ich Spreche Cannuckian! [20:48] -BetaHound> What time tomorrow? [20:48] -BetaHound> [20:48] -BetaHound> Zehr gut, mein herr! [20:48] -BigFree> I'll be around off and on all day [20:49] -BetaHound> say 8 pm edt [20:49] -BigFree> if I find MZ on-line I'll try to nail him down for a time [20:49] -BetaHound> K - and donegeal [20:49] -BetaHound> I'm flexible. Just will need to arrange dinner time. [20:49] -BigFree> right [20:49] -BetaHound> I will see who I can get [20:50] -BigFree> me too [20:50] -BigFree> GF isn't available [20:50] -BetaHound> just pm or e-mail e when you have a time. [20:50] -BigFree> cool [20:50] -BetaHound> yup - I know. [20:50] -BigFree> I trie contacting GF for 6 days for the ISDG [20:50] -BetaHound> Gentlemen - a productive and enjoyable evening. [20:50] -NuclearisWinterius> DAs Kriegsmarine Der luftflotee ist das gut! Sie name ist Furchtbar, und her ist das Schon traurig [20:50] -BigFree> I was getting pissed! [20:51] -BetaHound> schon traurig? [20:51] -BigFree> yes it was productive a plan is comming into view, lets hope for some luck on the Galley crossing's [20:51] -NuclearisWinterius> I dunno, I trowed traurig at random [20:51] -NuclearisWinterius> don´t remmeber what is it [20:51] -NuclearisWinterius> [20:51] -BetaHound> BF - yes! [20:52] -NuclearisWinterius> Well gentlemen, I believe it´s War in our time [20:52] -BigFree> Thnaks fro the screens [20:52] -NuclearisWinterius> You staying around for more time Beta? [20:52] -BetaHound> And please handle the screenshots with discretion. My team does not yet know they have been provided. I will tell them. [20:52] -BetaHound> Nope - its late. Need sleep. [20:52] -NuclearisWinterius> OK, we can keep ´em under low profile [20:52] -BigFree> ok, they are private only [20:52] -BetaHound> But use the info - share with your team to strategize as necessary. [20:52] -BigFree> ginght [20:53] -BigFree> right [20:53] -BetaHound> With you getting involved - you will need all the info we can provide. [20:53] -BigFree> yes, it's beeter for all of us [20:53] -BigFree> maximize the use of our resources [20:54] -BetaHound> OK gents. Everyone take care. Guten nacht. See you tomorrow. And ... Asgard lives! [20:54] -BigFree> !! [20:54] -NuclearisWinterius> FOrever! [20:54] -BetaHound> [20:54] -BetaHound> bye [20:54] -NuclearisWinterius> bye [20:54] * BetaHound has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:54] -BigFree> that was a long chat [20:55] -BigFree> NW, will you post this in the forum? [20:55] -BigFree> we can post the screens as is as long as we note that noe of the information inthem is to be spoken to anyother team [20:58] -NuclearisWinterius> OK [20:59] -NuclearisWinterius> I am going to use the images form the civiclopedia to do the Propaganda images [20:59] -NuclearisWinterius> I have most of the log, but not all.... [20:59] -NuclearisWinterius> do you have all of it? [21:00] -BigFree> yes [21:00] -NuclearisWinterius> Nah, I´ll post what I have, I think I have not lost much [21:01] -BigFree> all would be better [21:01] -BigFree> i send it to you [21:02] * TogasIDLE has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:02] -NuclearisWinterius> I´ve already started the work of taking out the - >´s [21:03] -NuclearisWinterius> Besides, i´ll send it with all the junk talk inside it [21:03] -BigFree> no [21:03] -BigFree> put it all [21:03] -BigFree> no editing [21:04] -BigFree> that way others can read it and pick out info me may have missed

	05-05-2003 08:45									#309
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This was supposed to be a 3 way chat between RP-Vox_GoW; but BH showed up 3 hours late. We've rescheduled for Monday at 5:30 PST in the same channel. Here's a log of what did get said.

quote: [20:01] * BetaHound has joined #ScarySpider [20:01] -BetaHound> yo [20:02] -BetaHound> yo again [20:02] -BigFree> hey [20:02] -BetaHound> Sorry guys, I did indeed have the instructions wrong. [20:02] -MasterZen> yo! [20:02] * MasterZen sets mode: +o BetaHound [20:03] -BetaHound> And then I got wrapped up in a deity game - holding my own, [20:03] -BigFree> and NW just left too [20:03] -BetaHound> And it is bed time here. [20:03] -BetaHound> My apologies. [20:03] -BigFree> that's ok you're here now [20:03] -BetaHound> Not for long. I have 5 minutes at the most. [20:03] -BigFree> maybe tommorow then? [20:03] -MasterZen> well, can we reschedule? [20:03] -BetaHound> Do you want to reschedule - or talk really really fast. [20:04] -BigFree> [20:04] -MasterZen> tomorrow would be fine with me, its a holiday here [20:04] -BetaHound> yep - fine by me. [20:04] -BigFree> Let's kick some GS ass! How's that? [20:04] -BetaHound> Man - DeepO is getting worse. [20:04] -BigFree> He went of onw HoT enamel [20:05] -BetaHound> GS self-righteousness. [20:05] -BetaHound> I think we should all quit and declare them teh winners. [20:05] -MasterZen> bah, screw them [20:05] -BigFree> [20:05] -BetaHound> They are just too good. [20:05] -BetaHound> [20:05] -BigFree> Legends in the own ;minds'! [20:05] -BetaHound> Where you frtom MZ. Spain? [20:06] -MasterZen> Mexico [20:06] -BetaHound> So - what time tomorrow. The rest of Vox has gone awol. [20:06] -MasterZen> anytime is fine with me, you decide [20:06] -BetaHound> Ah - similar time zones. That's good. [20:06] -MasterZen> i'm at CST [20:06] -BigFree> Im PST [20:07] -BetaHound> I thought you were fla. [20:07] -BigFree> CA [20:07] -BetaHound> ah. [20:07] -BigFree> Togas is Fla [20:07] -BigFree> no wait he's CA [20:07] -BigFree> ET is Fla [20:07] -BetaHound> OK - 8:30 edt - 00:30 gmt [20:07] -BigFree> that would be 5:30 PST [20:08] -BetaHound> yup - too early? [20:08] -BigFree> nope [20:08] -MasterZen> fine with me [20:08] -BigFree> not AM though [20:08] -BetaHound> I can go later. [20:08] -BigFree> its PM [20:08] -BetaHound> no - not am [20:08] -BigFree> [20:08] -BetaHound> its 5:30 - wake up BF. [20:08] -BigFree> :/ [20:09] -BigFree> im a little grogy then [20:09] -BetaHound> Hey - before I go - you guys up for an island pbem game - 6 teams - standard size map. [20:09] -BetaHound> 6 players. [20:09] -BigFree> MZ is in any and all PBEM's [20:09] -BigFree> [20:09] -MasterZen> hahaha [20:09] -MasterZen> I'm in 7 now [20:09] -BigFree> make that 8 [20:09] -MasterZen> sure, count me in [20:09] -BigFree> [20:09] -BigFree> me too [20:09] -MasterZen> REAL MEN HAVE NO LIMITS ON HOW MANY PBEMS THEY JOIN [20:09] -BigFree> HAHA [20:10] -MasterZen> I think 10 would be the limit though... [20:10] -BetaHound> great - I was thinking Trip, Tibi, and maybe Eli from vox. [20:10] -BigFree> cool [20:10] -MasterZen> who's Tibi? Tiberius? [20:10] -MasterZen> Trip will definitely join [20:11] -BetaHound> And I will get someone to set it up. [20:11] -BetaHound> yup. [20:11] -BigFree> ok, same channel tommorrow [20:11] -BetaHound> I'm looking for reasonably quick players. [20:11] -BigFree> same password [20:11] -BetaHound> ok - 00:30 gmt - same channel. [20:11] -BetaHound> same bat cave. [20:11] -BigFree> lol [20:11] -BetaHound> g'night guys. [20:12] -BetaHound> sorry again. [20:12] -MasterZen> night [20:12] -BigFree> mp [20:12] * BetaHound has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:12] -BigFree> did you want to say anything to me? [20:12] -BigFree> before tommorrow [20:14] -MasterZen> nope [20:14] -MasterZen> wait [20:15] -MasterZen> yes, I do and really bad news [20:15] -MasterZen> I took a look at the map again [20:15] -MasterZen> and I miscounted, space is 4 tiles at the closest [20:15] -MasterZen> this really sucks [20:15] -BigFree> we have a plan for that [20:15] -MasterZen> theres a small patch we have yet to discover so there's still hope [20:16] -BigFree> it invloves risk, but we can try [20:16] -MasterZen> I'm really sorry though, I hope you guys didn't change any plans because of this [20:16] -BigFree> that's ok, we didn't make any thing to solid until we saw a map [20:16] -MasterZen> good [20:17] -MasterZen> so, you have a backup plan? [20:17] -BigFree> but we are still commited to theis war though [20:17] -BigFree> yes, a backup plan [20:17] -MasterZen> is it secret? [20:17] -BigFree> you send a galley tothe first sea sqaure with no units in it. [20:17] -BigFree> then you wait till next turn to see if it sinks [20:18] -BigFree> if it doesn't then you bring along side another Galleys with units in it and transfer them [20:18] -BigFree> then you go the 3 tiles to saftey on ohter side [20:18] -BigFree> rinse a nd repeat [20:18] -MasterZen> that works? never tried transfering troops in Civ3 actually... [20:19] -BigFree> it works [20:19] -BigFree> but it sucks if your galley sisnke [20:19] -MasterZen> yes true [20:19] -BigFree> it might delay plans if some sink [20:19] -BigFree> we'll see though, we'll continue to build galleys [20:19] -MasterZen> unfortunately very true [20:20] -BigFree> I think I got my team to giv 8 units to this effort instaed of just 6 [20:20] -BigFree> once they are in for 8, 10 won't be hard either [20:21] -BigFree> I want GS down for the count [20:21] -BigFree> what kind of count you guys lookig at? [20:22] -MasterZen> 6 at least [20:22] -MasterZen> we're thinking of Pikes. Do some pillaging will hurt GS much more than city assaults [20:23] -MasterZen> they have nothing to take out pikes [20:23] -BigFree> if we can give 8 can you guysdo the same [20:23] -MasterZen> you guys should send a combination once you get Feud [20:23] -BigFree> we plan on it, but someone doesn't want to give it to us or Vox yet... [20:24] -MasterZen> oh come on... you can surely wait 4 turns till the no-deal clasue expires!!! [20:24] -BigFree> screw GS's clause [20:24] -BigFree> you are at war with the bastards [20:24] -MasterZen> yes and no [20:24] -BigFree> you risk your own troops if Vox or RP is weak [20:24] -MasterZen> yes technically. No because we can always claim they are Mercs [20:25] -BigFree> Plus, Vox is cool with you saying that they (Vox ) reserched it themselves and sold to RP [20:26] -BigFree> you guys are beyond claiming **** about mercenaries, the world knows what's up even if they don't say so. [20:26] -MasterZen> he have made public our offer of mercenaries [20:27] -BigFree> but the horsemen incident blew that [20:28] -BigFree> neithr Vox nor RP will stand up and say we hired GoW for this [20:28] -BigFree> GoW is in this as much as Vos is and RP will be [20:28] -MasterZen> I was only talking about the 2 horsemen [20:29] -BigFree> who's goig to claim the horsemen [20:29] -BigFree> who are you saying "hired" them? [20:30] -BigFree> I think you guys are trying to play too many angles on this one. [20:30] -BigFree> What's wrong with a "Vox-RP-GoW" Coalition? [20:30] -MasterZen> nothing whatsoever, I never said we weren't up to that [20:31] -MasterZen> hell, lets Lego into it too [20:31] -BigFree> that would be good too [20:32] -BigFree> so, if we are all in this together, **** the clause [20:32] -BigFree> GS is going down! [20:32] -MasterZen> again, FOUR TURNS, is that too much to ask? [20:32] -BigFree> not for RP, but for Vox it is [20:32] -MasterZen> you get more $$ in four turns for the upgrades and we don't lose rep [20:33] -MasterZen> vox doesn't need Feud this precise instant, Immortals are just as good as Med Infs [20:33] -BigFree> BH said he would love you if you sold Feud now, they could be more aggressive with them he said [20:33] -BigFree> Its the Pike that they would use [20:33] -MasterZen> we'll talk about that tomorrow [20:33] -BigFree> ok [20:34] -BigFree> we'll do this on Monday night [20:34] -BigFree> i'll close the channel now [20:34] -BigFree> later [20:34] -BigFree> see you in FSGO [20:34] -MasterZen> ok [20:34] -BigFree> [20:34] * MasterZen has left #ScarySpider Session Close: Sun May 04 20:34:55 2003

	05-05-2003 10:31									#310
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

For tomorrow's chat:

IF GoW waits 4 turns to sell us Feudalism...

5 turns from now 2 pikes on the move...
9 turns until they're on board a ship
11 turns until ship is in position
12 turns transfer overseas (assuming first galley doesn't die)
13 turns arrive at Vox mountain.

15 turns until at border of conflict.

Does Vox and GoW want to wait 15 turns until we can help them out? As it is, our involvement is considerably delayed by the travel distance. Sure, even if they give it to us now, we won't be a viable combat force for 10+ turns, but every turn is important here. GoW needs to understand that.

--Togas

	06-05-2003 07:16									#311
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Supposed 3 way chat with RP-Vox-GoW.

This time it was MZ who flaked on us!

Oh well, we some things figured out with Vox anyways.

Part 1 of 2

quote: Session Start: Mon May 05 17:21:17 2003 Session Ident: #ScarySpider [17:21] * Now talking in #ScarySpider [17:21] * BigFree\Away is now known as BigFree [17:24] * Retrieving #ScarySpider info... [17:24] * BigFree sets mode: +k Story [17:24] * BigFree sets mode: +nps [17:27] * NuclearisWinterius has joined #Scaryspider [17:27] -NuclearisWinterius> heya [17:27] -BigFree> yo [17:28] -BigFree> no sign of BH or MZ [17:28] -NuclearisWinterius> [17:28] -BigFree> BH showed up 3 hours late last night [17:28] -NuclearisWinterius> Those two.... have you properly PMed them? [17:28] -BigFree> yes [17:33] * BetaHound has joined #ScarySpider [17:33] -BetaHound> Good evening! [17:34] -NuclearisWinterius> HEY! [17:34] -BigFree> hey [17:34] -NuclearisWinterius> Welcome! [17:35] -BigFree> on time even [17:35] -NuclearisWinterius> Hmm you are 3 hours early [17:35] -BigFree> [17:35] -BetaHound> Nice try! [17:35] * BigFree sets mode: +oo BetaHound NuclearisWinterius [17:35] * BigFree sets mode: +oo BetaHound NuclearisWinterius [17:36] -BigFree> just wait for MZ then [17:36] -BetaHound> Yup - and HarryH said he might join around 9pm my time. He is a westerner as well. [17:37] -BigFree> I worked MZ over a little yesterday after you left BH, as far as selling us both Feud a little early [17:37] -BetaHound> MZ could use the screenshots - couldn't he? [17:37] -BetaHound> And - did it work? [17:37] -BigFree> I didn't tell him you gave us any screens [17:37] -BigFree> he's willing to discuss it further with you today [17:38] -BetaHound> k [17:38] -BigFree> He said $ turns shouldn't matter to us, but I said maybe to RP 4 turns won't mind but to VoX 4 turns means alot [17:38] -BetaHound> indeed. [17:39] -BigFree> We should go with the whole "Vox researched Feud and sold to RP" bit [17:39] -BetaHound> We could even agree to no pikemen showing up 4 four turns. [17:39] -BetaHound> yup- it works. [17:39] -NuclearisWinterius> I personaly think they should go wit the usual and blunt ´´we are at war with you so this disqualifyes any agreement we had before [17:40] -BetaHound> yup - that works too! [17:40] -NuclearisWinterius> But if G o Whores can´t get it [17:40] -NuclearisWinterius> well make a lil senseless lie [17:40] -NuclearisWinterius> The point is getting hte techs as soon as possible [17:40] -BetaHound> yup [17:41] -BetaHound> GoW is sure *****-footing around about the war. [17:41] -BetaHound> The public forum stuff and all. [17:41] -BetaHound> Not sure what that is all about. [17:42] -BetaHound> Guess I can ask when MZ gets here. [17:43] -BigFree> MZ said something about being able to claim their units are just "mercenaries" for hire or some BS like that... [17:43] -BigFree> not really at war with anyone [17:43] -BigFree> I said BS [17:44] -BigFree> RPO or Vox will not step up and say we hired GoW units [17:44] -BetaHound> yes - but to what end - the only advantage I can see is to hide their true commitment to the affair. [17:44] -BigFree> they are playing to many angles I fear [17:44] * NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [17:45] -BigFree> doh [17:45] -BigFree> DALnet is unfriendly to some [17:45] -BetaHound> yes - that is what I figyure as well. [17:45] -BetaHound> Come back - NW come back!!! [17:46] -BigFree> If we can convince GoW to not take that approach, then the sale of Feud can go through much easier [17:47] * Disconnected Session Close: Mon May 05 17:47:21 2003 Session Start: Mon May 05 17:49:29 2003 Session Ident: #ScarySpider [17:49] * Now talking in #ScarySpider [17:49] * ****inghost has joined #Scaryspider [17:49] -BigFree> damn [17:49] -BigFree> it was mean to me too [17:49] * ****inghost is now known as NuclearisWinterius [17:50] -NuclearisWinterius> Back [17:50] -BetaHound> hehe [17:50] -BetaHound> another GS plot... [17:50] -NuclearisWinterius> My Pc had crashed [17:51] -NuclearisWinterius> HEY!!! YOU THERE!! WE WANT MORE MINISTERIAL PRONOUNCEMENTS ON THE WAR! [17:51] -BigFree> [17:51] -BetaHound> you mean me? [17:51] -NuclearisWinterius> Ja [17:51] -BetaHound> innocent little me? [17:51] -NuclearisWinterius> BTW anyone knows what does Jahol means? [17:52] -NuclearisWinterius> Der BetaHund [17:52] -BigFree> not me [17:52] -BetaHound> I believe it is javol - from jawol - and I think it means yes sir. [17:53] -BetaHound> 2 years of HS german. But that was a while back. [17:54] -NuclearisWinterius> Soo, don´t leave the topic! What about the war reports? [17:54] -BetaHound> Not much to report on. [17:54] -BetaHound> BUT ... [17:54] -BetaHound> I guess I could come up with something. [17:54] * HarryH has joined #ScarySpider [17:54] -BetaHound> Like the master GS plot to ruin the game because they figured they were going to lose the war. [17:55] -NuclearisWinterius> And who said that thing is about real action? it is all about PROPAGANDA! [17:55] -BetaHound> Harry!!! Hello! [17:55] -NuclearisWinterius> Hey HArry [17:55] -BigFree> What do you think of the possibility of someone who may have attempted to cheat and caused the bug/crash?! [17:55] -BetaHound> BF, NW, meet HarryH. [17:55] -BigFree> yo [17:55] -HarryH> Hi Beta. I made it. Took me a bit to get connected to dalnet. [17:56] -BetaHound> Some have been having problems. [17:56] -HarryH> My dogs are not happy I have not said hi yet. Still have my coat and shoes on. [17:56] -BetaHound> I connect tp dalnet in an instant. [17:56] -BetaHound> Take some time - we are waiting for the GoW rep. [17:56] * NuclearisWinterius slaps NuclearisWinterius around a bit with a large trout [17:56] -BigFree> me too usually that was the first time I got booted [17:56] -NuclearisWinterius> I take some time to connect [17:57] -HarryH> I read the moves thread about the crash problem. It could be something someone did or it could be a new situation in the game that is not handled properly. [17:57] -BetaHound> yes - no one is quite sure. [17:57] -HarryH> Someone could have also tried to take advantage of a bug and it messed up the game. [17:57] -BetaHound> [17:57] -BigFree> I was thinking that also [17:57] -BetaHound> hope not. [17:58] -BigFree> the culprit will be forever scorned [17:58] -NuclearisWinterius> I think maybe someone tried to open the game with the new patch [17:58] -BigFree> nah [17:58] -HarryH> I did that accidentally in a game a few months ago playing around with armies. [17:58] -NuclearisWinterius> I don´t think any of the ppl involved could try to cheat [17:58] -BigFree> you can open a 1.14 with 1.21 but not the other way around [17:58] -BetaHound> makes sense [17:59] -BigFree> but the saves wnet back a few turns and people were still playing with 1.14 befroe the crash [18:00] -BetaHound> What is weird is asleep taking it back as far as he did - and it still crashes at the same time. [18:00] -NuclearisWinterius> how much turns lost? [18:00] -BetaHound> he went back to 710bc [18:01] -BetaHound> 6 or 10 back. [18:02] -BetaHound> Harry - while you are here - maybe we should do a quicj recap of the other night. [18:02] -NuclearisWinterius> Asleep took things this way back? [18:02] -BetaHound> yup [18:02] -NuclearisWinterius> Hmm suspicious [18:02] -HarryH> How long ago did some of the first civs move to the middle age? Massive barbarian uprisings are tied to civs changing age plus some number of turns. That event would be fixed in time for many turns back. [18:03] -NuclearisWinterius> Even if it was not him, he may be trying to take advantage [18:03] -BetaHound> I sent screen shots to NW and BF - showing the front and the coast. [18:04] -HarryH> I remember reading that in our forum. [18:04] -BetaHound> We discussed options. [18:04] -BetaHound> Your galley crossing idea is still the best we have. [18:04] -NuclearisWinterius> So Beta didn´t get killed for giving us the screenies? [18:05] -HarryH> No. We talked about giving you some info. No problem. He didn't reveal any secrets. [18:06] -BetaHound> As to landing spots - we sort of agreed upon fish mountain - next to D-ville. [18:06] -HarryH> Once the first galleys get across they could head north past our west coast with more reinforcements coming up Bob's east coast. [18:07] -BetaHound> RP would mass troops there. GoW further north. We rebuild general jon's army. [18:07] -HarryH> They can setup a line to transfer units from galley to galley. Units can move up to 7 tiles per turn this way if the galleys are positioned properly. [18:07] -BetaHound> don't follow you Harry. [18:07] -BetaHound> your first point. [18:07] -NuclearisWinterius> load units in one galley, move 3 swares, change galley [18:08] -BetaHound> yes - that I get. [18:08] -HarryH> Yes, massing near Dvile is good. Not too far from moving into GS territory. The only thing we need to be careful of is if they build a library in Monsoon. When the border expands they will see the units. [18:08] -BetaHound> By then we will be ready to go. [18:09] -BigFree> the 7 turns is if the units can off load at the edn df the Galleys movements turns are up [18:09] -HarryH> I will post a map shoing how to set up my galley transfer later. For now, the first galleys need to get across. This is for reinforcements after. [18:10] -HarryH> Yes, 7 = 3 tiles by one galley, units move to galley in next tile, 3 more in next galley. [18:11] -HarryH> I think a line of three or four galleys could cover it and make for a quick route between RP and Dville. [18:11] -NuclearisWinterius> Hmm, I have only few minutes left here [18:12] -HarryH> OK, so let's plan without GoW and see where we get. [18:12] -BigFree> sure [18:12] -HarryH> What units are you sending? [18:12] -NuclearisWinterius> hmm [18:12] -BigFree> depends on Feud [18:13] -BetaHound> We are twisting GoW's arm to release feud. [18:13] -HarryH> Most of our force is immortals. Do you have any horses? [18:13] -BigFree> yes [18:14] -NuclearisWinterius> Doesn´t GoW has horses? [18:14] -BetaHound> yes [18:14] -BetaHound> the horses are for us [18:14] -BetaHound> But - we have a plan to get them from NeuD [18:14] -BetaHound> They have two. [18:15] -HarryH> If they will give them to us. [18:15] * Togas has joined #scaryspider [18:15] -BetaHound> And they are contributing zip to the war. [18:15] -Togas> hello [18:15] -BetaHound> Hail Togas. [18:15] -HarryH> Hi Togas. Nice to meet you. [18:15] -Togas> Ah. Good to meet you, too [18:15] -BigFree> We plan to send 2 horse and depending on Fued 2 pikes and 2 Swrod/MI [18:15] -BetaHound> Togas - meet harry. [18:15] -BigFree> MZ cannot be found [18:16] -Togas> BigFree & Nuc have things under control, I'm just here in case you need me [18:16] -BetaHound> Not even on Poly. ;( [18:16] -BetaHound> k [18:16] -HarryH> That would be a good mix. [18:16] -BigFree> We could end up sending more, just depends on how things go [18:17] -BigFree> and if any Galleys' sink [18:17] -BetaHound> yup - 6 horse and six sword and six pike would work to [18:17] -BigFree> [18:17] -BetaHound> yes - that is an issue [18:17] -Togas> our biggest problem is the galley issue and not having a safe route to cross [18:17] -NuclearisWinterius> of course, if we could we´d send 100 Infatry , 1000 sherman tnaks and 7 battleships, but it is out of our reach [18:18] -BetaHound> [18:18] -HarryH> Those tanks are too big for galleys. [18:18] -NuclearisWinterius> (You see, we only have 5 battleship) [18:18] -NuclearisWinterius> Let us stop this think! [18:18] -NuclearisWinterius> [18:19] -BetaHound> Back to horses - if NeuD flat out refuses - can you send us horses. [18:19] -BigFree> I think RP and Vox are going to be just fine planning and executing this war; what we need yo do is toget GoW to commit towards it wholeheartedly, then GS's destruction can be assured. [18:19] -BetaHound> You have 2 supplies I beleive [18:19] -BetaHound> YES BF. I concur. [18:19] -BigFree> if we have them, sure, we need a sea path however [18:19] -HarryH> The only safe route is to go all the way up east of Bob and down our west coast. Long trip. [18:20] -BigFree> no, I mean a sea path to allow trade of the horses [18:20] -HarryH> The risky crossing should only be for the first galleys. Reinforcements can do a galley hoping thing the long route to cut down the time. [18:20] -BetaHound> This is for trade purposes. Two harbors. [18:20] -BigFree> right [18:20] -BetaHound> If we had horses we could produce horsemen to counter chariots. [18:21] -BetaHound> We have piles of Immortals. [18:21] -BetaHound> So - [18:21] -NuclearisWinterius> gotta go, sorry [18:21] -NuclearisWinterius> bye! [18:21] * NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Quit: ) [18:22] -BetaHound> our plan is to twist NeuD's arm into providing horses - as there contribution to the war. [18:22] -HarryH> Horsemen can also be sacrified to pillage roads and restrict their attacks on our immortals. [18:22] -BetaHound> yup! [18:22] -BigFree> I don't see that we have a second source of horses quite yet, let me look at the save..... [18:22] -BigFree> Togas, you know? [18:22] -BetaHound> yes - further south. [18:23] -Togas> we have a 2nd horse but it's not linked up [18:23] -Togas> do you have a harbor? [18:23] -BigFree> yes, now I see it [18:23] -HarryH> Not yet. Building one. [18:24] -BigFree> it would take a while to get it hooked up [18:24] -Togas> we'll be a while until that horse is linked up, unfortunately [18:24] -BetaHound> We could send a worker for a colony. [18:24] -BetaHound> Gues sthe road is the issue. [18:24] -BigFree> right [18:25] -BigFree> you say ND has two horses [18:25] -HarryH> I think ND is the only one that has extra horses linked up. [18:25] -Togas> they do [18:25] -BigFree> hmm, I wonder if they could trade to us then we trade to you...... [18:25] -HarryH> We are trying to get them to trade them to us now. [18:26] -Togas> easier that way [18:26] -BetaHound> Does NeuD have a harbor. [18:26] -BigFree> if th esea route has been cleared [18:26] -HarryH> I don't think so. I think it can go through the GoW harbor. [18:27] -BigFree> Yes that is correct [18:27] -BigFree> Linked through GoW's Harbor is ND's Capitol [18:27] -BigFree> (sounded like yoda) [18:27] -HarryH> Good. That is the way I remember seeing it before. [18:28] -BigFree> do you have a harbor? [18:28] -BetaHound> 8 turns. [18:28] -BigFree> hmm [18:28] -HarryH> So we keep pushing for ND to give us horses and you send troops to amass near Dville. [18:29] -BetaHound> and pressure GOW on feud. [18:29] -BetaHound> That is key. [18:29] -BigFree> yep [18:29] -BetaHound> Do you think we can get Lego to commit troops? [18:29] -BigFree> where's that damn Mexican (He's from Mexico, so it's ok to call him that ) [18:29] -HarryH> Yes, without pikemen we will take too many loses. We need to get a few cities away from GS to cut their production/research ability. [18:30] -BigFree> IMO, Lego will not give troops, they may give gold however.... [18:30] -HarryH> I think Lego has their hands full with barbarians. Besides, it is a very long trip from Legoland. Their troops may be obsolete before they arrive. [18:31] -BigFree> gold can be very useful [18:31] -BetaHound> The other option for RP is to sail south and land farther down - beyond the troop line. [18:31] -BetaHound> But I figure GS will simply follow you down. [18:32] -BigFree> If there was a mountain or hill to land on that wasn't right next to a city, that would be reasonable, but we don't see the south of GS [18:32] -HarryH> That would require more galleys to put enough troops on shore at once. [18:32] -BetaHound> [18:32] -BetaHound> yes - I like the reinforcement idea better. [18:33] -HarryH> Based on an early description of GS land I don't think their is a tile not close to a city. [18:33] -BigFree> That why if the landing wasn't next to a city (they couldn't 'pult us to death before other troops arrived) [18:33] -BigFree> I wonder if Lego has map of GS..... [18:34] -BetaHound> Nope. [18:34] -HarryH> Besides the risk of sinking, a problem with the straight across galley route is that GS will see the galleys and wonder what is up. By coming north and then down they will not see them. [18:34] -BigFree> true [18:34] -BetaHound> yes [18:34] -BigFree> a north landing has more benfits or less problems [18:34] -BetaHound> yes [18:35] -BigFree> plus GoW will be ther too [18:35] -HarryH> Takes longer but safer and more surprise.

	06-05-2003 07:17									#312
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Part 2 of 2

quote: [18:35] -BetaHound> Now - we will have enough - that is the question. [18:35] -BigFree> you know, I'd like to see nye face when he opens the save to see both RP and GoW troops along with Vox's!!! [18:35] -HarryH> Since it will take some time for us to get a harbor and build a few horses (assuming we can get them) the safer route may be OK. [18:36] -BigFree> I agree [18:36] -BetaHound> WE have probably kept pace with them via immortal upgrades. [18:36] -BetaHound> You add 6+ [18:36] -BetaHound> GoW adds ??? [18:36] -BigFree> 6 [18:36] -BigFree> he said 6 at least [18:36] -BetaHound> OK. [18:37] -BetaHound> And the timing of the turns is a bit off. Let me explain, [18:37] -BigFree> we need those damn pikes for you now though! [18:37] -BetaHound> GS - GoW - RP - Vox [18:38] -BetaHound> Yet we have the heavy duty units to clean out pikeman - and get down in the stack where the chariots and pults are. [18:38] -BetaHound> It would be better if we moved before you. [18:38] -BetaHound> We will need to think this out. [18:38] -BigFree> yeah, it would be better if GS was sandwhiched between us [18:39] -BetaHound> Spreading targets out doesn't work - we learned that. [18:39] -BigFree> GoW-RP-GS-Vox would be nice [18:39] -Togas> Note: If you guys need us to send in horses instead of swords, just let us know. We can be pretty flexible with our volunteers [18:39] -BetaHound> They can move too quickly on home turf. [18:39] -BigFree> true [18:39] -BetaHound> yep - understood. Thx T. [18:39] -BigFree> it ups our time schedule [18:40] -BetaHound> So - we need to go unit killing - and that means hitting stacks. [18:40] -BigFree> right [18:40] -BigFree> whats the chance of taking out GS's Iron supply? [18:40] -BetaHound> Or as Harry has suggested - sacrificing units to take out infrastructure. [18:41] -BetaHound> Not bad - you can see it in the screen shot. [18:41] -BigFree> [18:41] -BigFree> I wasn't sure of the number of units near the iron [18:41] -BetaHound> on the east coast. [18:41] -BetaHound> lots [18:41] -HarryH> Thier iron is on the east coast. Problem is they have pike fortified on mountains to go through to get there. [18:41] -BetaHound> [18:42] -HarryH> Even if we got to the iron on the mountain they would still have a turn to take us out before we could pillage it. [18:42] -BigFree> true, but you'd be on the mountain [18:42] -BetaHound> on a road. [18:42] -BigFree> double defense bonus [18:43] -HarryH> Yes, but probably weak from fighting our way to it. [18:43] -BigFree> [18:43] -BetaHound> The other option is the old spread the defence. [18:43] -BigFree> a couple of pike in a galley to land on same turn would be nice [18:43] -BetaHound> Galleys down each coast - and landings coordinated with a push from the north. [18:44] -HarryH> I think we should concentrate on the west. Take a few cities so we have a place or refuge and reduce their capacity. I also think their horses are further south so we may be able to work our way down to them. [18:44] -BigFree> yep, how long till you feel you'd be ready for such a landing [18:44] -BetaHound> We have two galleys now as well. [18:44] -BigFree> good [18:45] -BetaHound> With immortals - now. [18:45] -BigFree> we have 1 the other is 2-3 turns away i forget [18:45] -HarryH> Plus time to get your units across. [18:45] -BetaHound> And I don't thing GS has any galleys on the west casot. They may have in a city though. [18:46] -BetaHound> I was thinking Harry - [18:46] -BetaHound> some catapults would be usefull. [18:46] -HarryH> Me too. [18:47] -BigFree> mkes the WC less likely to attack [18:47] -BetaHound> THey could move down the road - bombard the GS galleys to 1hp - and then we could take them out. [18:47] -BetaHound> And yes -= your point as well BF. [18:47] -BetaHound> And non-barracks city can produce them. [18:47] -HarryH> I was thinking the same thing. They would have to wait in back until we had a few so they can hit at once or GS will move their galleys. [18:48] -BetaHound> Exactly - maybe 4. combined with the two galleys. That would open up the east coast. [18:48] -HarryH> Yes. If nothing else, it keeps GS in the dark about what we are doing over there. [18:49] -BetaHound> [18:49] -BigFree> good plan [18:49] -BetaHound> They will also be very useful on defence - as BF has pointed out - and as we have found out. [18:49] -HarryH> Lets work on those galleys while we wait for RP to get their troops over. [18:49] -BetaHound> All we need now is the game to work again. [18:50] -BigFree> I know this sucks [18:50] -HarryH> And we can use them to soften up Arashi when we are ready. [18:50] -Togas> BF -- have we given them a time estimate on our troops? [18:50] -BigFree> no [18:50] -Togas> couple of notes: [18:50] -Togas> galley #2 will be ready in 5 [18:50] -Togas> galley 1 is loaded & ready to move, but we have to wait for 2nd galley before tryign to cross [18:50] -BetaHound> yes [18:51] -HarryH> Might as well send the galley the long way. It can be half way here in those 5 turns. [18:51] -Togas> our biggest problem is that our barracks is far from the loading spot, and pikes will be delayed [18:52] -Togas> we're probably around 12 turns until pikes dropped on your mountain, 4 turns of which is due to waiting for GoW to give us feudalism [18:52] -BetaHound> Understood. [18:52] -Togas> 2 horsemen are in the first boat. [18:53] * Togas goes back to cooking [18:54] -HarryH> By then GS will probably have knights (unless they are confident enough to pass up chivalry) so pike will be needed. [18:54] -BetaHound> BF - to give you some idea of what we are up against - [18:54] -BetaHound> we have some 30 immortals and spearmen now - probably 20 and 10. [18:54] -BetaHound> Another 10 warriors ready for upgrade. [18:55] -BetaHound> So say a miltary somewhere around 40-45 [18:55] -BetaHound> and the mil advosir says our army is average compared to GS [18:55] -BetaHound> [18:55] -BigFree> if we send the first galley the 'long' way, we can send it back the short way o meet up with the second galley. WE stop the first galley in the see square just outside of the three tile range of Estonia; then load our second set of troops into galley #1 from Galley #2 if Galley #1 didn't sink durin the turn. [18:55] -BigFree> ouchm that's a lot of troops [18:56] -HarryH> Yes BF. That would work with the way the timing looks for everything else. [18:56] -BigFree> we might need a few more than 6 units then..... [18:57] -BigFree> GoW too [18:57] -BetaHound> That's why - and no disrespcet to either you or GoW, but numbers are going to count. [18:57] -BigFree> plus ND's horsies [18:57] -BigFree> I agree [18:57] -BigFree> we need to do this the right way, which is completely [18:59] -BigFree> Damn that MZ...watch him show up just as we are finishing [18:59] -HarryH> We need the horsies to make a few hosemen. Those and the RP and GoW units are mostly to cause some trouble. We will have to do the bulk of the fighting unless you guys can get troops over a lot faster. That is the problem with sea transport at this time of the game. [19:00] -BigFree> unfortunately you are right [19:00] -BigFree> if we were only three tiles for the coast, that would help also [19:00] -BetaHound> yup. [19:00] -BigFree> 3 Galley's could make quick work of it [19:01] -BigFree> Ask lego for $$ support, if that's an option open for you [19:01] -HarryH> Anyone know how to create a volcano eruption like sometimes happens in SMAC? A new island suddenly appearing would be nice. [19:01] -BigFree> HAHA [19:02] -BigFree> "A unity pod malfuntioned causeing the ground to shift" [19:02] -HarryH> We are talking to lego to see what they can do to help. [19:02] -BigFree> cool [19:02] -BigFree> Is ND close to giving the Horses [19:02] -HarryH> Yup. I think this will be a nasty war, but lots of fun. [19:03] -BetaHound> no - not yet - we are strategizing our approach to them [19:03] -BigFree> ah [19:03] -BetaHound> yes [19:03] -BigFree> BH's reports have been to most fun so far!!! )) [19:03] -BetaHound> I've enjoyed them. [19:04] -BetaHound> Especially the GS reaction. [19:04] -HarryH> Yes. I noticed Deepo has given Beta some thumbs up. [19:04] -BetaHound> Poor Shiber -he takes everything so seriously. [19:04] -BigFree> They better get this game fixed (Firaxis) or Ill be so pissed..... [19:04] -HarryH> Need to keep some humor in all this to remind us this is a game... [19:05] -BetaHound> as will many others. [19:05] -BetaHound> So- do we call it a night. [19:05] -BetaHound> And I will write MZ about feud. [19:05] -BigFree> sure, maybe tommorow we can invite GoW [19:05] -BigFree> :/ [19:05] -BetaHound> I'll be around - same bat time - same bat cave. [19:06] -BigFree> [19:06] -HarryH> I don't think there is anything else to take about now. We will need to get together later once things start coming together. [19:06] -BetaHound> same bat channel [19:06] -BigFree> right [19:06] -HarryH> Let me know. I might have time. [19:06] -BigFree> sure [19:06] -BetaHound> OK - see ya guys. Take care of those dogs Harry. [19:06] -HarryH> Time for dinner. My dogs are hungry. [19:06] -BigFree> nice to get things on track for this, things on't look so bad, they look pretty good actaully [19:07] -BigFree> later [19:07] -HarryH> bye [19:07] -BetaHound> Agreed. OK - cya. [19:07] -BigFree> nide to meet you Harry [19:07] * BetaHound has left #ScarySpider [19:07] * HarryH has left #ScarySpider Session Close: Mon May 05 19:07:47 2003

	08-05-2003 09:26									#313
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The 3-way chat finaly took place!

Part 1 of 2

quote: Session Start: Wed May 07 15:34:56 2003 Session Ident: #ScarySpider [15:34] * Now talking in #ScarySpider [15:35] * Retrieving #ScarySpider info... [15:35] * BigFree sets mode: +nps [15:35] * BigFree sets mode: +k Story [16:34] * Panzer32 has joined #ScarySpider [16:34] -Panzer32> hey BF [16:34] -BigFree> hey [16:35] -BigFree> whom are you representing? [16:35] -Panzer32> GoW [16:35] -Panzer32> btw, its "who" in a question [16:35] -BigFree> meeting not for another hour though [16:36] -Panzer32> yeah [17:31] -BigFree> BH said he may be later than 5:30 due to his favorite program being on: "Enterprise" [17:32] -Panzer32> ah... MZ probably won't be here for another half hour [17:32] -BigFree> cool thenlet's just wait till 6 then [17:33] -BigFree> or 6 PST [17:33] * MasterZen has joined #ScarySpider [17:33] * BigFree sets mode: +oo MasterZen Panzer32 [17:33] -MasterZen> Der Zen kommt! [17:33] -BigFree> hey [17:34] -BigFree> BH won't likely be here till 6 PST [17:34] -MasterZen> ok [17:35] -BigFree> on a side not Togas lost his connection at home, it may be 9 days before he gets a connection.... [17:35] -MasterZen> damn!! that sucks big time [17:35] -BigFree> he will only be able to post/chat from work for a while [17:35] -BigFree> he called just now, lucky I gave him my # [17:36] -BigFree> his GF was tring to ge them hooked with with a cable modem instead of his current DSL, but she cancelled servervice before the cable modem could be brought in and installed [17:37] -BigFree> he's trying to get service back, but he'll wait and see what happens [17:42] -MasterZen> being all of us internet junkies I'm surprised he didn't break up with his GF for something like that.. lol [17:42] -BigFree> ) [17:54] * BetaHound has joined #ScarySpider [17:54] -BetaHound> Hello! [17:54] -Panzer32> hey Beta [17:55] -BetaHound> new problem - West Wing is just coming on. [17:55] -BetaHound> New episode. [17:55] -BetaHound> hmmm... [17:55] -BetaHound> How's things panzer? [17:55] -BetaHound> Life in the Pete OK? [17:56] * BigFree sets mode: +o BetaHound [17:56] -Panzer32> yup [17:56] -BigFree> Was Enterprise a new one? [17:57] -MasterZen> hey! [18:01] -BigFree> lets talk [18:01] -Panzer32> ok [18:02] -MasterZen> good [18:02] -BetaHound> yup - it was new - and great. Guess who wa in it? [18:02] -BetaHound> was [18:02] -BigFree> no [18:03] -MasterZen> Elizabeth Hurley naked? [18:03] -BigFree> dont say [18:03] -BigFree> I have to watch in 2 hours [18:03] -BetaHound> hehe anhhh no. [18:03] -BetaHound> Oh - c'mon - guess. [18:03] -Panzer32> no idea; don't watch it [18:03] -MasterZen> Georgy W. Bush? [18:03] -BetaHound> Who are our all time favorite bad guys on Star Trek? [18:03] -MasterZen> reprising his RL role? [18:03] -BigFree> 7 of 9 [18:04] -MasterZen> DARTH VADER!!! [18:04] -BigFree> lol [18:04] -BetaHound> 7 of 9 - ahhhhhh - but close. [18:04] -BigFree> kahn [18:04] -BigFree> the BORD [18:04] -MasterZen> Emperor Palpatine [18:04] -BigFree> Borg [18:04] -BetaHound> ..... [18:04] -BigFree> ?? [18:04] -BigFree> damg [18:04] -BetaHound> yup [18:04] -MasterZen> Darth Maul? [18:04] -BigFree> wierd [18:05] -BigFree> ok, no more hints [18:05] -BetaHound> you find out quickly - so I haven't given anything away. [18:05] -Panzer32> no. Jabba the hut [18:05] -BigFree> ok, cool [18:05] -BetaHound> Good show - and now West Wing is on - so I'll chat between segements. [18:06] -BetaHound> MZ - panzer - we want - no we NEED Feudalism. [18:06] -BigFree> doh [18:06] -BetaHound> yup [18:06] -MasterZen> - no we DEMAND Feudalism! - [18:06] -BigFree> [18:07] -MasterZen> how bout this... [18:08] -Panzer32> why do you need feudalism for attacking? Or maybe the minister of info is exagering their sucess in their war? [18:08] -MasterZen> see, In spite of our... ehem... "conflicts" with GS, honoring trade deals is necessary from a strict reputational point of view, not because of GS, we don't give a hoot about GS, but because of future trade deals with Lego which as we know may be eventually be THE tech dealer [18:09] -MasterZen> add to this the fact that the no-trade clause expires in only 4 turns, or 3 had this last turn gone by [18:10] -BetaHound> Ah - Lego is on our side by the way. [18:10] -MasterZen> oh, have they committed anything? [18:11] -BetaHound> In many respects they have provided more support than either oif you. [18:11] -BetaHound> Yes - they have committed much. [18:11] -MasterZen> how much? [18:11] -BetaHound> We need feudalism for attacking because we need pikemen. [18:12] -BetaHound> We cannot leave the mountains without them. [18:12] -BetaHound> As we get close - the best defender we have is a 2. [18:12] -BetaHound> This should be pretty clear. [18:12] -BetaHound> Anybody on the plains is dead meat from WC's. [18:12] -BigFree> I have an idea: What if GoW gives Vox Feud now and Vox claims to have researched it themselves. When the No-Trade clause ends; then GoW seels to RP giving every indication that GoW indeed held to theri end of the bargain, because why would they seel to one tem and not another? [18:12] -BetaHound> MZ - more that GoW - trust me on this. [18:12] -Panzer32> but how long will it take to get pikes there? [18:13] -MasterZen> agreed, sending immortals and spears on to plains is no good [18:13] -MasterZen> against a horde of WCs [18:13] -BigFree> It would take 4 turns longer if we wait what ever that number is [18:13] -BetaHound> 1 turn for us. Obviously longer for RP. [18:13] -BetaHound> brb [18:14] -MasterZen> so, you have a bunch of spearmen at Dissidentville waiting for an upgrade? [18:14] -BigFree> Vox can upgrade near the front line [18:15] -Panzer32> wasn't there something about RP pretending to research Feud and getting it from GoW> [18:15] -BigFree> either that or Vox, it doesn't matter [18:15] -BigFree> we can go wither way [18:15] -MasterZen> it would seem more likely if RP got it than if Vox did [18:15] -BetaHound> back [18:16] -BigFree> sure, we'll claim to have sold it to Vox [18:16] -MasterZen> what is Lego's science status? i.e. what are they reaseraching? [18:16] -BetaHound> agreed [18:16] -Panzer32> I think theyre going for theology? [18:16] -BetaHound> ah - Theology I thionk. [18:17] -BetaHound> [18:17] -BigFree> sistine [18:17] -BetaHound> yup [18:17] -MasterZen> how "builder" of them [18:17] -BetaHound> [18:17] -BigFree> [18:17] -Panzer32> to continue the trend; [18:18] -BetaHound> Ok - so are we Ok with the feudalism 'deal'. [18:18] -MasterZen> not yet [18:19] -MasterZen> wait.. ok, assuming we do the Feud deal [18:19] * NuclearisWinterius has joined #Scaryspider [18:19] -NuclearisWinterius> hallo! [18:20] -MasterZen> hallo [18:20] * BigFree sets mode: +o NuclearisWinterius [18:20] -MasterZen> as I was saying [18:20] * NuclearisWinterius salutes all in the old spanish way [18:20] -MasterZen> what and how soon could you transform Feud into a military advantage? [18:20] -MasterZen> see, I was thinking that a pillaging war will be much more effective than a city-taking war [18:20] -NuclearisWinterius> Well, who, RP? [18:21] -BigFree> he's talikng to Vox [18:21] -BetaHound> Even pillaging will require pikes. [18:21] -BetaHound> We cannot survive for one turn on non-mountains. [18:21] -BetaHound> We lost 6 units the last time we tried that to deflect GS interest away from your two horsemen. [18:22] -BetaHound> Which - btw - [18:22] -BetaHound> could have been better communicated as to plans. [18:22] -Panzer32> 2 attack vs 2 defense... shouldn't be so bad. Except for retreating of course [18:22] -BetaHound> You left us scramling to try and cover your derrieres [18:22] -MasterZen> you shouldn't have done that [18:23] -BetaHound> [18:23] -MasterZen> we were expecting a diplomatic response first [18:23] -MasterZen> from them [18:23] -BetaHound> We were trying to help. [18:23] -BetaHound> Seriously. [18:24] -Panzer32> we didn't do that, GF did [18:24] -MasterZen> agreed, and thanx but if it cost you 6 units it was not much help for the cause. I wouldn've rather we lost those 2 units and you still had 6 immortals with you [18:24] -Panzer32> he's a crazy cow. [18:24] -BigFree> LOL [18:24] -NuclearisWinterius> Hmm, So far GS keeps biting it... makes me wonder how long will this last [18:25] -Panzer32> biting what? [18:26] -BetaHound> MZ - I agree. We should have stayed in the mountains. And - to be honest - it was not all your fault - we underestimated GS. We did not think they had that many chariots. [18:27] -MasterZen> Chariots are one of the best units to hoard. Cheap but effective. I bet they've lost a bunch too but considering how many they probably have... [18:27] -BetaHound> yes [18:27] -BetaHound> But we still have tons of immortals - and more on the way. [18:27] -BetaHound> The army is now up into the 40's range. [18:27] -MasterZen> good [18:28] -MasterZen> mother of god... [18:28] -BetaHound> The problem is GS keeps pace with us. [18:28] -BetaHound> That's why 2 0r 4 or 6 horsemen are great - but ... [18:28] -MasterZen> trust me Beta, I would not have sent horsemen... [18:28] -BetaHound> we realoy could use them in multiples of 10. [18:29] -BetaHound> Understood MZ. [18:29] -MasterZen> 5 pikes would work much better than 10 horsies [18:29] -BetaHound> agreed. [18:29] -MasterZen> and that is what I'm trying to get the team to commit [18:29] -MasterZen> see problem is until we saw the terrain we had no idea that the coasts were so mountainious [18:30] -BetaHound> Because you know - if we don't defeat GS now - well - it will be like the borg getting loose. [18:30] -MasterZen> we imagined the horsies to be used for mobile pillaging [18:30] -BetaHound> understood [18:30] -NuclearisWinterius> Borg? [18:30] -BetaHound> That was our original thinking too. [18:30] -BetaHound> star terk reference NW. [18:30] -BetaHound> trek [18:31] -NuclearisWinterius> ah, those trekkie things... [18:31] -NuclearisWinterius> Beta, open the door for the messenger! [18:31] -BigFree> RP is commited, even commited to losing some Galley's if need be to take down GS [18:32] -MasterZen> pikes will wreck them [18:32] -MasterZen> economicall [18:32] -MasterZen> y [18:32] -MasterZen> and sometimes those wars are just as efective as city takers [18:32] -BigFree> yes, so lets let Vox do that now, the sooner we start the better we will all be. [18:32] -NuclearisWinterius> Pikemen would make Rp´s task force much more viable [18:33] -NuclearisWinterius> IF teh sun comes over and rises from teh sea once again, that is [18:34] -MasterZen> you should have gotten the lighthouse :P [18:34] -BigFree> brb [18:34] -Panzer32> maybe we can get GS to ferry them over?? [18:34] -MasterZen> hahaha [18:35] -MasterZen> GS: please send some galleys over to transport the troops which will kick your ass [18:35] -BetaHound> [18:36] -MasterZen> so, then economic warfare gentlemen... [18:36] -NuclearisWinterius> Dear GS: We want to wreck you and your team to bits, so please give us your galleys so that we can unload behind you and kill you all, with love , justino Togas and the allied coalition [18:36] -NuclearisWinterius> ´´´We come as conquerors, not liberators!´´ [18:36] -BetaHound> yes - MZ? [18:37] -BetaHound> As far as we know - we have everyone NOT trading with GS. The last deal was you giving them 200 for feud. [18:37] -MasterZen> Beta: do you think it is plausible to deny them iron? [18:38] -BetaHound> Their source is on the east coast - we can see it. On a mountain - defended by pikes. [18:38] -MasterZen> drat [18:38] -BetaHound> yes - drat. [18:38] -Panzer32> hmm... maybe if we get tanks! [18:38] -BetaHound> We were within two tiles. [18:39] -MasterZen> unless we pillage the surroundings but I bet they've thought about that [18:39] -BetaHound> And - if we had not ried to kill that east coast warrior - we may have gotten it earlier. [18:39] -BetaHound> yes - agreed. [18:39] -NuclearisWinterius> Panzer, first lesson in modern warfare, tanks can´t beat pikemen on a mountain! [18:40] -NuclearisWinterius> Theyn use tungsteen spears and empoverished uranium armor [18:40] -Panzer32> sorry [18:40] -NuclearisWinterius> Sorry? [18:40] -MasterZen> well then screw the whole blitzkrieg idea :P [18:40] -Panzer32> I forgot the old tanks vs mountain pikeman anomaly [18:41] -NuclearisWinterius> ah, got it [18:41] -NuclearisWinterius> You see, france was overrun cause they disbanded all tehir pikes and instead built infantry [18:41] -Panzer32> but Panzers would do well? [18:42] -MasterZen> perhaps [18:42] -NuclearisWinterius> Take a look at a panzer, do you think it can beat a full-armoured pikemen with his mind set on killing? [18:42] -BigFree> back [18:42] -Panzer32> yes [18:44] -NuclearisWinterius> Panzer32, you are overesteeming those tanks, what all nations fail to realize is that all you need is a spear to impale it when it chrages at you (!) [18:44] -MasterZen> back to busniess guys: timing [18:44] -MasterZen> when [18:45] -NuclearisWinterius> Well MZ, it all comes to when and if [18:45] -MasterZen> can we start said ordeal, what will be the dilomatic procedure [18:45] -NuclearisWinterius> When and if you will send feudalism [18:45] -MasterZen> if=yes [18:46] -NuclearisWinterius> When... ? [18:46] -MasterZen> when is the unknown, to tell you the truth I want to speak to Lego and get them to agree to them saying they sold it. It would be much more believable.

	08-05-2003 09:27									#314
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Part 2 of 2

quote: [18:46] -Panzer32> you're catching on, NW J/k [18:47] -BigFree> why can't you say RP sold it? [18:47] -Panzer32> maybe we can get ND in on this too and make it a real 'world [18:47] -Panzer32> affair [18:47] -MasterZen> hmm... RP sells Feudalism... suddenly a galley load from RP drops down... that is NOT believable [18:48] -BigFree> why not [18:48] -MasterZen> if Lego stays on the sidelines at first though... [18:48] -MasterZen> if we can get ND in on this that would be great [18:48] -NuclearisWinterius> gotta go [18:48] -BigFree> thta BS, just because you read suspecion inot it doesn't mean that htye are any more real or imgained as if they did not happen. [18:48] -Panzer32> bye NW [18:49] -NuclearisWinterius> hav a nice day [18:49] -MasterZen> just so they don't get any ideas while our troops are offshore [18:49] -MasterZen> see ya NW [18:49] * NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!) [18:49] -BigFree> GS will be suspecious of anything [18:49] -BigFree> no matter what [18:49] -BigFree> so who cares what they think [18:49] -MasterZen> BF never underestimate the value of a true ruse [18:50] -BigFree> they can not prove what is believable or not [18:50] -Panzer32> If this whole thing works, then no one will care what GS thinks. If it doesn't, well then... its a different story [18:50] -BigFree> GoW helped GS by giving them cahs, no? [18:50] -BigFree> *cash [18:50] -Panzer32> of course [18:51] -Panzer32> we are generous, aren't we [18:51] -BigFree> then why would RP be beyond helping Vox by selling Feud to them? [18:51] -MasterZen> and are we not getting it back [18:51] -MasterZen> BF guess what GS is NOT doing right now... [18:52] -BigFree> You get it back after GS used it to upgrade pikes [18:52] -BigFree> what? [18:52] -MasterZen> researching [18:52] -MasterZen> wanna know why? [18:52] -BigFree> they need cash [18:52] -BigFree> duh [18:52] -MasterZen> and... [18:53] -BigFree> nothing helps them at the moment by researching [18:53] -MasterZen> guess who offered to sell them chivalry once they got it? [18:53] -BigFree> lol [18:53] -BigFree> I knew that [18:53] -MasterZen> and guess who's NOT going to give them chivalry [18:53] -BigFree> I knew that too [18:53] -BigFree> [18:53] -MasterZen> so now you get the picture why we don't want to dishonor the deal? [18:53] -BigFree> you are this is know by all! [18:54] -MasterZen> if GS knows that we broke the deal, they'll start reaseraching [18:54] -MasterZen> and they'll get chivalry eventually, and would you like them to upgrade 40 WCs to 40 Knight? I don't think so [18:54] -BigFree> they will not "know" is my point [18:54] -MasterZen> BF...they WILL know, it is waaay to obvious [18:54] -BigFree> not IMO [18:54] -MasterZen> but yes in mine [18:54] -MasterZen> and most of my team agrees with me [18:55] -BigFree> Tell me why it is so IMPOSSIBLE to believe that RP or VoX researched iut themselves [18:55] -BigFree> maybe if you sold it on the same turn you got it; but not 4-6 turns later [18:55] -MasterZen> Vox: no offense but its not easy to reasearch techs AND do a mass immortal upgrade [18:56] -BetaHound> agred [18:56] -MasterZen> 4-6 is still halfway [18:56] -MasterZen> RP: by looking at your military advisor screen we can guess you've been building up a little too [18:56] -Panzer32> I've got to be away for 20 minutes [18:56] -BigFree> not for RP or Vox if they had ben previously reseraching it... [18:56] -MasterZen> think LONG-TERM people... [18:56] -MasterZen> this war will not be won by the decisions made which will affect the next 10 turns, it will be made by the next 20-30 ones [18:57] -BigFree> we are, I'm jst thinking long term w/o GS! [18:57] -BigFree> easy for you to say MZ [18:57] -MasterZen> why? we're in the same situation [18:57] -BigFree> evry turn cpounts for something [18:57] -BigFree> no you are not [18:58] -MasterZen> if anything it would be Vox the one most worried, and the point is we don't want them to suddenly face 40 knights [18:58] * Panzer32 is now known as Panzer32_backin20min [18:58] -BigFree> Vox is getting pummeled by cats each turn are you? [18:58] -BetaHound> I agree with that. [18:58] -MasterZen> are you BF? [18:58] -BigFree> are you what? [18:58] -BetaHound> But - don't you think your landing will have clued them in. [18:59] -MasterZen> not by what they've said to us [18:59] -MasterZen> they offered us peace the next turn [18:59] -BigFree> whatever [18:59] -BetaHound> really? [18:59] -MasterZen> yep [18:59] -BigFree> they just don't want to face both is all [18:59] -MasterZen> exactly [18:59] -MasterZen> they've got enough on their hands [18:59] -BetaHound> ah - so they sucked up to you in other words. [18:59] -BetaHound> [18:59] -MasterZen> kinda [19:00] -BetaHound> So - they are not researching Chivalry. A fas as we know. [19:00] -BigFree> they have to know somethnig is still up with GoW, they are not that dumb [19:00] -MasterZen> see, I can't quote this but.. [19:00] -MasterZen> one of the reasons they know the whole horsie landing was crazy is that we HAVEn't sold feud [19:00] -MasterZen> they're checking on it [19:00] -BetaHound> ah - OK. [19:01] -MasterZen> they said something like "we belive you want good relations bla bla bla because you haven't sold Feud" [19:01] -BetaHound> And when is the 10 turns thing up. [19:01] -MasterZen> I think 4 turns, or 3 if this one hadn't crashed [19:01] -BetaHound> Ok - that would still work for us - as we are cyrrently 'regrouping'. [19:01] -MasterZen> I think It's worth the wait... [19:02] -BetaHound> yes - given the new news - I agree. [19:02] -MasterZen> we might even be willing to sell it 1 turn before and claim we believed the turn we got it counted as the first [19:02] -BigFree> [19:02] -MasterZen> just let me check first... [19:02] -MasterZen> I'll PM you guys to tell you the official date [19:02] -BetaHound> OK - thanks. [19:02] -BigFree> sure [19:02] -BetaHound> Now - to war plans. [19:03] -MasterZen> [19:03] -BigFree> yes! [19:03] -MasterZen> again, I don't want to sound rude or anything, it's just that I'm seeing things 20 turns later, not now [19:03] -MasterZen> that's the whole insistence of honoring the Feud deal [19:03] -BetaHound> Agreed ,,, n/p... RP and ourselves have agreed on the [19:03] -BetaHound> landing site for RP troops. [19:04] -BetaHound> Just to the west of D'ville. [19:04] -BetaHound> The mountain is still probably the best spot for GoW. [19:04] -MasterZen> let me open the map [19:04] -BetaHound> Or are you going to wait for Riders. [19:05] -MasterZen> we want to send some Pikes [19:05] -BetaHound> Good plan. [19:05] -MasterZen> THEN we'll send the riders, but pikes can do a massive amount of economic damage first [19:05] -BetaHound> There is another option here gentlemen. [19:05] -MasterZen> say say [19:06] -MasterZen> I would advise RP send a pike/med inf mix [19:06] -BetaHound> It will be a few turns before everything is set to go - agreed? [19:06] -MasterZen> I still have to check the details on how soon we can send pikes, I'm the crazy diplomat, not the war leader [19:07] -BetaHound> No - but it is stil afew turns before both RP and Gow have troops lanede and set to go - agreed? [19:07] -BetaHound> landed [19:07] -MasterZen> yes [19:07] -BigFree> agreed [19:08] -BetaHound> Ok - both Eli and I ahve had separet chats with GS folks. One-on-one. [19:08] -BetaHound> They believe that we are being set up in this war. [19:08] -BetaHound> That you - the opportunists of the world ... [19:08] -MasterZen> hehehe [19:09] -BetaHound> are basically using us as a puppet.. [19:09] -BetaHound> to fight your war and wear them down. [19:09] -BigFree> lol [19:09] -BetaHound> Which - trust me - did go thru our minds. [19:09] -MasterZen> and ours too [19:09] -BetaHound> But - I know where we are coming from on this - and you as well. [19:09] -MasterZen> j/k [19:10] -BetaHound> We all know what GS can do if let loose. [19:10] -MasterZen> yep [19:10] -BetaHound> So - we go along with the theme - [19:10] -BetaHound> we actually proposed that we would only make peace if they helped on Bob. [19:11] -BetaHound> But GS does not trust us. [19:11] -MasterZen> hmm... [19:11] -BetaHound> Can't imagine why? [19:11] -MasterZen> me neither [19:11] -BetaHound> So - although some ideas have been floated - they are not buying. [19:11] -BetaHound> But ... [19:12] -BetaHound> I do think I can buy us some time - maybe 3-5 turns. [19:12] -BetaHound> By talking about a new alliance - us making amaneds - aetc etc. [19:12] -BetaHound> We have ruined our rep with them as it is - what's one more. [19:12] -BetaHound> [19:12] -MasterZen> hahaha [19:13] -MasterZen> specifically who have you talked to? [19:13] -BetaHound> I think GS will still gear up to eliminate us. [19:13] -MasterZen> I would if I were them [19:13] -BetaHound> I ahve talked to nye and Eli to Shiber. [19:13] -MasterZen> ok [19:14] -BetaHound> I would actually like it if GS attacked. [19:14] -MasterZen> ??? [19:14] -MasterZen> Attacked bob? [19:14] -BetaHound> No - Vox. [19:14] -MasterZen> are you sure?? If I had 40 immortals I'd rather have them attacking, not defending [19:15] -BetaHound> We could catch them with a counter-attack - which would be more effcetive at destroying units than what we have done. [19:15] -MasterZen> but the problem is when do you think they would attack? [19:15] -BetaHound> We would catch them out in the open - not in walled cities on hills loaded with pikes and pults. [19:16] -BetaHound> Oh - 6-10 turns I figure. [19:16] -MasterZen> If I were them, I'd attack with knights. Just look at the upgrades the could do with the WCs [19:16] -MasterZen> ohh If I were them I would not go so early [19:17] -BetaHound> But for that they need chiv. [19:17] -BetaHound> And from what you have said - that may take them awhile. [19:17] -MasterZen> exactly, but you're only making them stronger while you wait for them to attack [19:18] -MasterZen> say 20 turns, that's 20 turns of industrious workers working and improvements being built DURING a golden age might I add... [19:18] -BetaHound> yah - I agree. [19:19] -BetaHound> We are set to go anytime - it is RP and Gow we are trying to time correctly. [19:19] -MasterZen> I wish our cow were here... [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> WEATHER IS SO CHANGEABLE THAT THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT IT: [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> 1. Rounded lumps of ice that may fall during thunderstorms we call hail. [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> 2. Severe snowstorm is bizzard. [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> 3. Partly melted, wet snow is called slush. [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> 4. To prepare a car or a building for winter is to winterize. [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> 5. The chilling effect of wind in combination with low temperature is called wind chill factor. [19:19] -Panzer32_backin20min> just picked that up [19:20] -BetaHound> ah - ok. [19:20] -MasterZen> I'm not authorized to give any definitive answers on military movement [19:20] -Panzer32_backin20min> still not back yet though [19:20] -MasterZen> sorry [19:20] -BetaHound> understood [19:20] -MasterZen> I would if I could [19:20] -BetaHound> n/p [19:20] -BetaHound> no aoplogies needed [19:20] -BetaHound> Ok - so I can explain the feud thing. [19:20] -BetaHound> question? [19:21] -BetaHound> No - its oK - it was earlier. Forget it. [19:21] -MasterZen> yes, what question? [19:21] -BetaHound> nada [19:21] -BetaHound> is that how you say it? [19:21] -MasterZen> si [19:22] -BetaHound> [19:22] -BetaHound> OK- so your basic plan is still to stockpile troops on Estonia. [19:22] -MasterZen> ok [19:22] -MasterZen> well, after the horsie business we'll have to try something different [19:23] -MasterZen> plus, if I were them I'd build some galleys to harass us [19:23] -BetaHound> Great - well then I am going to zip over to the SPDG and see what is happening. [19:23] -BetaHound> yes - agreed. [19:23] -BetaHound> We think a simultaneous push from the north is the best - GoW, RP and Vox together. [19:24] -MasterZen> the west it seems is hardly defended [19:24] -BetaHound> Au contraire. The two cities of Arahsi and Tempset are loaded with troops - from waht we can deduce. [19:24] -MasterZen> unless they moved troops into monsoon... [19:25] -MasterZen> oh, I was referring to the coast [19:25] -MasterZen> but yes, those cities are on hils [19:25] -BetaHound> The coast is still relatively clear - but within one moves distnace for them. [19:25] -MasterZen> yes [19:25] -BetaHound> OK - I should be going. [19:25] -MasterZen> not an easy country to take... [19:25] -BetaHound> Hate to be rude and dash [19:25] -MasterZen> but every nut cracks [19:26] -MasterZen> we'll make it rot [19:26] -BigFree> lol [19:26] -BetaHound> No - it is not - but yes - every nut does crack. I agree [19:26] -BetaHound> [19:26] -BetaHound> OK - I'm off to the SPDG chat. [19:26] -BigFree> ok cya [19:26] -BetaHound> Anything else for tonite? [19:27] -MasterZen> nope [19:27] -BetaHound> BF, MZ, Pnazer, - good nite my friends. [19:27] -MasterZen> good nite Beta [19:27] -BigFree> night [19:27] -BetaHound> BF - enjoy Enterprise! [19:27] -BigFree> thanks [19:27] -BigFree> [19:27] * BetaHound has quit IRC (Quit: ) [19:27] -MasterZen> I'll probably head over to the SPDG chat myself.. [19:27] -BigFree> not me [19:27] -BigFree> too busy [19:28] -BigFree> cya later [19:28] -MasterZen> cya! [19:29] -MasterZen> what's the channel for the SPDG again? [19:30] -BigFree> hold on [19:31] -BigFree> We will be using Undernet and meet in #civ3dem. [19:32] -BigFree> [19:43] -Panzer32_backin20min> oh, chat over... bye all [19:44] -MasterZen> bye panzer [19:45] * Panzer32_backin20min has quit IRC (Quit: ) [19:46] * MasterZen has left #ScarySpider Session Close: Wed May 07 19:49:37 2003

	08-05-2003 09:55									#315
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Some chat I overread on the ISDG channel. The GS talk is mostly about Galic Swordsmen; but sometimes it is about GatheringStorm. I don' know how useful this info is, but it can't hurt anyone to read it.

quote: [19:33] -Trip[dinner]> wiping out an advanced nation at full mobilization is tricky business [19:33] -Trip[dinner]> even the AI is a pain to exterminate [19:33] -notyoueither> i have seen too many early wars. they never go quickly. the defender has many advantages. [19:34] -Trip[dinner]> you're right [19:34] -Trip[dinner]> just speculating [19:34] -notyoueither> look at vox vs gs. [19:34] -Trip[dinner]> that's not quite as early... [19:34] -notyoueither> they caught us wide open. [19:34] -notyoueither> they have yet to take a city. [19:34] -Trip[dinner]> look at the infrastructure and city sizes of the nations involved [19:35] -Trip[dinner]> I like building units more than I like upgrading them [19:35] -notyoueither> yeah, but they don;t, and don;t have contact with the whole world... [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> especially GS' [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> upgrading requires full mobilziation to work... which is a HUGE pain early on [19:36] -notyoueither> yep [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> just played a game as the Celts [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> those Gallic Swordsmen are fun [19:36] * MasterZen has joined #ApolytonISDG [19:36] -notyoueither> yes, they are. [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> if war had come earlier I would have been screwed though [19:36] -Trip[dinner]> since they take so long to build... [19:37] -notyoueither> i got a gas out of F-P saying they are trash. [19:37] -MasterZen> ?? [19:37] -Trip[dinner]> I had a HUGE economy, and still only upgraded 2.. [19:37] -Trip[dinner]> well, if you don't have time to prepare they're trash [19:38] -Trip[dinner]> warrior upgrades are fun [19:38] -Trip[dinner]> warrior-to-GS upgrades are not... [19:38] -notyoueither> how much? 60? [19:38] -Trip[dinner]> 80 [19:38] -notyoueither> ouch. [19:38] -Fried-Psitalon> Gallic swordsman ARE trash. :P [19:38] -Trip[dinner]> yes.. ouch... [19:38] -Trip[dinner]> [19:39] -Trip[dinner]> NYE, just imagine where Vox would be if they had half the number of Immortals they have [19:39] -Trip[dinner]> and they were instead GS' (ignoring the differences in tactical ability :P [19:39] -notyoueither> 2 move GS and GS would be toastatos. bye-bye! [19:39] -Trip[dinner]> not with 5 of 'em ;P [19:40] -Trip[dinner]> if it's early or you're fighting a highly industrialized civ, GS will kill you [19:40] -notyoueither> oh, they had more than 10 to start, I think. our upper estimate was 25. [19:40] -Trip[dinner]> well, I know the exact number, but I'm not at liberty to speak on that subject [19:40] -Trip[dinner]> so I just picked a number [19:40] -Trip[dinner]> though the tactical differences would make things quite intriguing [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> WCs can't retreat when fighting GS' [19:41] -MasterZen> I'd rather have GS on open terrain though [19:41] -notyoueither> i know. you shouldn't say more. and neither should i. [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> and they have the advantage in battle actually [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> 2 VS. 2 [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> plus defense bonus [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> anyways [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> food time now [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> just got off the phone earlier [19:41] -notyoueither> and their speed would have made our defnences ineffective. [19:41] -Trip[dinner]> leaving now [19:42] -MasterZen> would have been a very interesting scenario [19:42] -notyoueither> bye [19:42] -MasterZen> cya [19:42] -notyoueither> yes, mz. it would have. in fact, it may make an interesting scenario after the ptw is finished. a good head to head. [19:43] -MasterZen> yes, after the ptw is finished we should make some scenarios with it [19:43] -MasterZen> especially now that Trip is redoing the whole thing [19:44] -notyoueither> only problem would be knowing what to expect might lead to unbalancing it. [19:45] -MasterZen> then again that would work both ways [19:45] -MasterZen> although not necessarily in an equal manner [19:45] -notyoueither> yes [19:45] -Trip[dinner]> I've actually played as GOW [19:45] -Trip[dinner]> as I think I told you Zen [19:45] -Trip[dinner]> I like the land [19:45] -Trip[dinner]> and I got an empire twice as productive too ;P [19:46] -MasterZen> I would love to replay GoW [19:47] -Trip[dinner]> I still think that Lux got the worst starting position :P

	20-05-2003 11:54									#316
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

After learning that GoW had removed their offer for WM I asked MasterZen to tell me what is going on. This chat happened on May 19. The times are PST (GMT-8)

quote: [22:36] BigFree> MZ, we offered our WM to you guys on the last turn becuase in the previous 3 turns you guys have offered your WM to us but never offered it as "accepted" it; So we figured that you guys want our WM in exchange even though we have not discussed it. Now we offer it to you back, then you pull your's off the table. What's going on? Do you want a swap or not? [22:37] MasterZen> it was not a swap [22:37] MasterZen> it was to see what you would give for ours [22:37] BigFree> so our WM is not good enough? [22:37] MasterZen> our WM is a bit more extensive [22:38] BigFree> but we are to be allies; what do you want from us? [22:39] MasterZen> yes but allies doesn't mean we're going to give everything [22:39] BigFree> so...what do you want? [22:40] MasterZen> the question is, what would you give? [22:40] BigFree> How do you know our Map isn't as informative as yours is in other areas? [22:40] MasterZen> well, unless you have a map of lego [22:41] BigFree> um, not quite that [22:41] BigFree> you know lego, how they are with their map... [22:42] BigFree> What if we offered you tech for it? [22:43] MasterZen> what tech? [22:43] BigFree> Monarchy; a cost 24 Tech [22:45] MasterZen> why would we want monarchy? [22:45] MasterZen> we're already a republic [22:45] BigFree> in case you wanted that to support a large army [22:46] BigFree> then you have the option, that you now don't [22:46] MasterZen> republic gives us more $$ [22:46] BigFree> that number depends on the amount of unit you have to support [22:46] BigFree> there's a break even point [22:47] BigFree> If you ever have more units than you do (Citizens-corruption) then Monarchy is better [22:48] BigFree> you get one extra commerce for every citizen that produces one [22:48] BigFree> but then you have to subtract that which is lost due to corrutption [22:49] BigFree> then you subtract that which is lost due to unit support [22:49] MasterZen> no math tonight... pleeeease [22:49] BigFree> So anything above a Medium sized army cost more in Republic than it would in Monarchy [22:49] BigFree> LoL [22:50] BigFree> Just look at it as another option [22:50] BigFree> we give you Monarchy and our WM for you WM [22:50] BigFree> this is more than fair [22:51] MasterZen> I'll bring it up for the team [22:51] BigFree> Think about why we chose Monarchy over republic [22:51] BigFree> ok then [22:51] BigFree> if not what do you think is fair then? [22:51] MasterZen> because you are Spain and you love to roleplay :P [22:51] BigFree> LoL No further responses

	26-05-2003 23:36									#317
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I received the following Email from Darekill of ND:

quote: Hello dear Togas, I know it has been quiet the last weeks. As you might know our Gouvernor Mav-son is missing and he is it that gives the orders. Borc and I have been ellectet to play the turns but we are bound to the rules he made. That is why we will keep the contact formal. Your Troops in the north are close to a city that we will found in the next turn. Please leave otherwise you will end up in our Territory. This would not be good. Darekill elected player for ND

I replied to him that we would certainly move any units that got caught inside their Cultural Borders, and that if he could tell me specifically which unit needs to be moved, we'd move it this turn.

--Togas

	27-05-2003 01:05									#318
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Response from Darekill:

quote: Dear Tom, do you see our Spearmen with a Settler on the side of the hill with the gold? This Settler will found there the City of Mavdat. So you should know which Troops are concerned. Thank you for your quick response. Darekill

--Togas

	06-06-2003 03:47									#319
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

PM sent to Darekill of ND as well as MZ of GoW. The PM's were slightly different in only the names of the teams.

quote: Hi I'd like to be able to get in a chat with you or your team members. I would like GoW to also be there. Sort of a "Bobian" Conference. I have set up a chat room on irc that you can show up in at anytime. type: /join #PTWDGConference Together It is labeld as "GoW-ND-RP Conference Room" "Together" is the password. I look forward to seeing you there. We can talk about border agreements, settling agreements, the "Bobian Alliance", and what ever else you have concerns with right now. BigFree

	06-06-2003 05:20									#320
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Chat with vondrack of Lego. Trying to get a feel for what they think is going on with Vox and trying to get something for our invlovemnet in case we give Iron to Vox.

quote: Session Start: Thu Jun 05 16:28:59 2003 Session Ident: vondrack [16:29] [BigFree] hey vond can you chat a bit about the PTWDG? [16:29] [vondrack] yep [16:30] [BigFree] Vox's situation looks bad but not hopeless to me; what's your take? [16:30] [vondrack] though - keep in mind, please, I am in no official position in Lego now [16:30] [BigFree] I understand [16:30] [vondrack] well, I agree [16:30] [vondrack] bad, but hopefully not hopless [16:30] [vondrack] hopeless [16:30] [vondrack] I haven't heard from BetaHound for some time [16:30] [BigFree] brb [16:30] [BigFree] sorry [16:30] [BigFree] phone [16:30] [vondrack] np [16:31] [vondrack] so I am lacking a good idea about their shape [16:31] [vondrack] they will need to reclaim that iron, that's for sure [16:33] [BigFree] back [16:33] [vondrack] k [16:33] [BigFree] RP is discussing giving them Iron [16:34] [BigFree] it's 50/50 [16:34] [vondrack] well, anything that slows GS down and gives them troubles, helps you, us, and everybody else... [16:34] [BigFree] howmuch more help can Lego give though and expect Vox to survive [16:34] [vondrack] we would probably give them that iron, if having the possibility [16:35] [vondrack] but we will not be able to until Astronomy [16:35] [vondrack] so all we can do is provide them with money [16:35] [BigFree] do you look at it at some point as thowing money at a problem that won't be solved? [16:35] [vondrack] you mean - like "wasting" money? [16:35] [BigFree] right [16:36] [vondrack] well... could very well be the case at this very moment. But as I said - anything that gives troubles to GS is good for us (and you, too) [16:36] [vondrack] so it is not really "wasting" money [16:36] [BigFree] If RP gave Vox Iron, would Lego be willing to go public with their support towards Vox and RP? [16:37] [vondrack] what would we (and anybody else, for that matter) gain by going public? [16:37] [BigFree] Maybe even sign an Alliance against GS? [16:37] [BigFree] It would make GS think twice about landing on Bob or Legoland [16:38] [vondrack] nah... I do not believe GS would attempt to land on Bob or Lego [16:38] [vondrack] not in the foreseeable future [16:38] [BigFree] they wouldn't wnat to spread theri troops out to far with the chance that troops could come to them from many directions. [16:38] [vondrack] they need to get rid of Voxes first [16:38] [BigFree] right, but after that is what we are worried about [16:39] [vondrack] yeah, right... after that - so we better try hard there is no "after that" [16:39] [vondrack] and that is best done privately, I believe [16:39] [BigFree] Would Lego be willing to Embargo GS? [16:39] [BigFree] not that you trade much anyways [16:40] [vondrack] yes, right... not that we would be trading anything... [16:40] [vondrack] I would have to ask my teammates about this, I really do not dare to gauge the team opinion [16:41] [vondrack] with the foolish GS approach to trading [16:41] [BigFree] Since RP's involvement would be for the good of all teams, is ther any deals that lego could cut of RP's behalf that would help to compensate for our willingsness to go to war with GS over this Iron issue? [16:41] [vondrack] it is actually pretty easy to embargo them [16:41] [BigFree] true [16:41] [vondrack] hm... do you have anything specific in mind? [16:42] [BigFree] like cheaper tech, gold, anything else you can offer [16:42] [BigFree] we need to mass produce units to really have a good chance at helping Vox [16:42] [vondrack] that is always a possibility, yes (cheaper techs & gold) [16:43] [vondrack] I am sorry if I sound a bit... vague [16:43] [BigFree] good, maybe you can ask you team to submit a proposal that would do so if we agree to give Vox Iron and take the brunt of GS'es unhappinesss. [16:43] [vondrack] but the thing is that we are impatiently waiting for the save [16:44] [BigFree] we just finnished [16:44] [BigFree] what are you guys waiting for? [16:44] [vondrack] because we have switched our gov and will now see how we are doing under Rep [16:44] [BigFree] ah, nice! [16:44] [vondrack] we will be much wiser then [16:44] [BigFree] yes you will [16:44] [BigFree] were you despot before? [16:45] [vondrack] yes [16:45] [BigFree] or just Monarchy [16:45] [BigFree] ok [16:45] [BigFree] My team made a decison to go to Monarchy long before me [16:45] [vondrack] I believe that I can say we WILL join the anti-GS coalition (as if we were not part of it already) [16:45] [vondrack] just that I am not sure if we need to go public with that [16:45] [BigFree] no, not really [16:46] [BigFree] but if you can help RP out, that would be enough [16:46] [vondrack] was switching to Mon a bad idea? [16:46] [BigFree] no, but not switching to Republic is [16:46] [vondrack] I see [16:46] [vondrack] well, BF... let's try this [16:46] [BigFree] I believe that they were unaware of the no war weariness in MP [16:47] [vondrack] have your FAM dept come up with some sort of an idea regarding Lego aid to RP [16:47] [vondrack] I do not think we would rush to throw techs and gold at you without being prompted [16:48] [BigFree] LOL [16:48] [vondrack] but if you send us a clear proposal [16:48] [vondrack] we will sure do our best [16:48] [vondrack] as a matter of fact [16:48] [vondrack] there was a post by our current Prez today [16:48] [vondrack] asking for strengthening ties with you [16:49] [vondrack] this would be a great way to do so [16:49] [vondrack] as you correctly pointed out few days ago [16:49] [vondrack] "cheapness" is relative [16:49] [vondrack] so asking for "cheap" techs will get us nowhere [16:49] [vondrack] you need to state the price [16:51] [BigFree] cool ; besides Theology what other techs do you have and what are you researching now, if you can say? [16:51] [vondrack] ATM, we are ready to trade Theology - that is the only tech we have available for trade [16:51] [vondrack] I mean - we do not have any other discovered yet [16:51] [vondrack] researching Education [16:51] [vondrack] no idea on ETA [16:52] [vondrack] will be wiser once we get the save [16:52] [vondrack] most probably, we will go for Astronomy then [16:52] [vondrack] but that also depends on how our Theo deals go [16:53] [BigFree] ok, thanks for the info. we are waiting on recieving Chiv from GoW as you are too. [16:53] [vondrack] if we fail to reasonably "secure" Sistine's, we may need to go for Bach's, delaying Astronomy [16:53] [vondrack] Bach's = Music Theory [16:53] [BigFree] Ihate those techs [16:53] [vondrack] which would delay Astronomy [16:53] [vondrack] Astronomy = possibility to trade resources/luxuries [16:54] [vondrack] so, we are not sure yet [16:54] [vondrack] too many variables [16:54] [BigFree] I would rathe have Copernicus(Astronomy) than Bachs [16:54] [vondrack] [16:54] [vondrack] not us [16:54] [vondrack] we lack luxuries [16:54] [vondrack] happiness problems [16:54] [vondrack] we need wonders that help to keep the pop happy [16:55] [BigFree] we can trade luxes to you after you get Astronomy, so that might change things for you. [16:56] [vondrack] hehe... but that is just replacing one problem with another - by "trading" for other luxuries, we need to spend resources (gold, techs...) [16:56] [vondrack] which is basically the same as using the lux slider [16:56] [BigFree] right, it waht ever offer's the better situation at the time [16:57] [vondrack] so, while we do look forward to being able to trade luxuries, we know we must not rely on the lux trade too much [16:57] [BigFree] understandable [16:58] [BigFree] we will get back to you with a proposal on the aid package [16:58] [vondrack] we'll see... anyway, we will be happy to support your involvement in the Vox-GS war [16:58] [vondrack] yes, great [16:59] [BigFree] thanks for the chat vond [16:59] [vondrack] my pleasure [16:59] [BigFree] RP and Lego can be great friends [16:59] [BigFree] we can have tea parties [16:59] [vondrack] LoL [16:59] [BigFree] OK [16:59] [BigFree] LOL [17:00] [vondrack] right, I am off to bed now [17:00] [vondrack] g'night! [17:00] [BigFree] good night, sleep well [17:00] [vondrack] thanks [17:00] [vondrack] bye

	06-06-2003 07:59									#321
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

A request - reading logs of what was said has it's moments, but a paragraph or two summerizing it all would often be better.... If those who were in the chat can write up something quick, it would also allow us to know if we are reading the "feeling" of what was said correctly. Just an idea is all. Thanks.

Ghost of GK

	09-06-2003 01:35									#322
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

HEy folks, just so that you know, LEgoland now knows we have changed capitol. They comented it today in an uncompromised chat I had with Nimitz, wich BTW was about other things.

	09-06-2003 05:15									#323
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nuc, please give us a report of what your chat with Nimitz was about.

--Togas

	09-06-2003 10:51									#324
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

GS RP chat

quote: Session Start: Sun Jun 08 17:57:02 2003 Session Ident: #PTWTalks [17:57] * Now talking in #PTWTalks [17:57] * Retrieving #PTWTalks info... [17:57] * BigFree sets mode: +nps [17:57] * BigFree sets mode: +k Sandwich [17:58] * E_T_outside_smoking has joined #PTWTalks [17:59] * E_T_outside_smoking is now known as E_T [17:59] * BigFree sets mode: +o E_T [17:59] E_T- who is going to be here? [17:59] BigFree- I talked to OPD [17:59] BigFree- he may show up [17:59] BigFree- I just sent him the info [17:59] BigFree- I asked if he could chat and he said when, then I sent this cahnnel info [18:00] E_T- do we want the big harry eyeball here? [18:00] BigFree- we'll see [18:00] BigFree- LOL [18:00] BigFree- as a MOD [18:00] BigFree- LOL [18:00] BigFree- sure [18:00] BigFree- he can come [18:05] * Trip- has joined #ptwtalks [18:05] Trip-- what's goin down in here :P [18:05] E_T- waiting for GS to show [18:05] Trip-- ahhh [18:05] Trip-- fun [18:05] * Trip- is now known as Trip[gone] [18:05] Trip[gone]- I'll be back later [18:05] Trip[gone]- say hello for me :P [18:06] E_T- Your just here as the big harry eyeball.... [18:06] E_T- [18:07] * BigFree sets mode: +o Trip[gone] [18:11] * opd has joined #PTWTalks [18:11] opd- lo [18:11] E_T- hello there [18:11] opd- Finally made it [18:11] opd- was on Undernet [18:12] E_T- Yes, it's the back up... [18:12] * E_T sets mode: +o opd [18:12] opd- So whats new then guys [18:12] E_T- but with polychat back up... [18:13] opd- Do you chat alot in RP? [18:13] E_T- we feel that GS and RP need to communicate more often than has previously been done in th epast [18:13] opd- Very true [18:13] opd- there is alot of changes underway in GS [18:13] E_T- RP is almost always has someone in our chatroom [18:13] opd- concerning the way diplomacy is carried out [18:14] opd- really? [18:14] E_T- that and just general communication [18:14] opd- I should have joined RP methinks [18:14] E_T- we have a lot of fun at times [18:14] opd- GS is very different to the SPDG [18:15] E_T- we even roleplayed the poly crash and the game crash [18:15] opd- lol [18:15] opd- BTW due to GS regulations I've kinda gotta record this is that ok [18:15] E_T- we called the poly crash, the Great storm of whatever year it was. [18:15] BigFree- hola [18:16] E_T- We have no problems with you recording the chat [18:16] opd- ok so how do I save teh chat [18:16] opd- I did know once [18:16] E_T- just log it [18:16] BigFree- for me it saves automatically [18:16] E_T- are you using mIRC? [18:17] opd- yup. How do I log [18:17] opd- no wait have figured it out. [18:17] E_T- the little box on the top of the screen that says PTWTalks, right click and check logging [18:18] opd- cheers [18:18] E_T- [18:18] BigFree- cool [18:18] E_T- are you setup now? [18:18] opd- yup [18:18] BigFree- we can always send you one too [18:19] opd- So is there someone in this channel at all times [18:19] E_T- yes, if you so wish, just to get the first few lines... [18:19] BigFree- no, I just set it up [18:19] E_T- not this one, but the RP one, yes [18:19] opd- Can anyone join the RP one? [18:19] BigFree- no only RP'ers [18:19] BigFree- it has a password on it [18:20] opd- Is the password sandwich? [18:20] BigFree- LOL [18:20] BigFree- Bologna Sandwich [18:20] BigFree- or Ham Sandwich, I forget... [18:20] BigFree- [18:20] E_T- but I imagine that BF can set up a room for specific GS-RP chats for a later talks, etc [18:20] BigFree- at any time [18:20] BigFree- I can leave this one up too [18:21] BigFree- we can make this permanent if youlike [18:21] opd- Yeah cool. [18:21] E_T- Oh, just to let you know, Trip is here to record for postarity (not his posterior), our talks.... [18:22] E_T- I would rather that we make a different room for future use [18:22] opd- So whats the deal with GoW they want us to select their leader [18:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +tr [18:22] E_T- call it GS-RPtalks or some such [18:22] E_T- I think that GF did a shiber [18:22] opd- Ok E_T prob best contact MSS he's in charge of FA now [18:23] opd- Shiber? [18:23] * BigFree changes topic to 'GS-RPtalks' [18:23] * opd changes topic to 'RP-GStalks' [18:23] E_T- Remember the first few weeks of the PTWDG, shiber posted in the open forum something that was supposed to go in our private one? [18:24] opd- lol sry I just figured out how to do that [18:24] opd- lol wasn't around for that [18:24] E_T- we all had a big laugh about it [18:24] E_T- And I had actually done one, too. But Edited it before anyone had read it.... [18:25] opd- Don't see you guys in the SPDG much anymore? [18:25] opd- Did you hear about the chat on sat [18:25] E_T- Too busy with Real life, for me that is [18:25] E_T- No, what happened? [18:26] opd- We took 2 cities and can sue for 4 more [18:26] E_T- damn [18:26] E_T- they are doing very good for a deity game [18:26] opd- I think were doing better than the original [18:26] opd- Gk has really turned things around [18:26] E_T- I had attended a couple of chats, but didn't like the speed of play [18:27] E_T- I'm just spoiled from teh other game I guess [18:27] opd- not like in the olden days [18:27] E_T- I like to download the save every turn [18:27] opd- I may be doing a chat this week [18:28] opd- If so I'm going to race through it to make GK look really slow [18:28] E_T- and then look at things (whick messes up the RNG) and then download the next turn fresh [18:29] BigFree- At Diety, there's not much of a chnace still, but thing s are begining to look better [18:29] E_T- but If i "play" along, I can't do that as much without having a thing or 2 different [18:29] opd- One change I've noticed is that pretty much everything is done in the chats these days [18:29] E_T- But then again, that's my style of play [18:29] opd- BF I think were going to do it. [18:29] BigFree- I hope so [18:30] BigFree- I did have my doubts early on. [18:30] BigFree- If we didn't win tha first battle, it would be over now [18:30] E_T- of course, it does take time for everyone to get the save, but then, if someone can't make the chat for whatever reason, they have the saves to look at later [18:30] E_T- Anyways, communication [18:31] opd- ok [18:31] E_T- We at RP feel that we need to talk [18:31] E_T- grrrr, brb [18:31] opd- smoke break? [18:31] BigFree- Did you guys ever talk peace at all with Vox since this war has begun? [18:32] opd- Yes [18:32] opd- BTW I must mention [18:32] opd- I don not represent GS in any official capacity [18:33] BigFree- sure [18:33] opd- Some things I cannot tell you and somethings I can only give you my personal opinion on [18:33] BigFree- who's going to be your ambassador if the current one wuits? [18:33] E_T- had to help in the kitchen, dinner is just about ready... [18:33] opd- Don't know. [18:34] opd- I think DeepO may stay on [18:34] BigFree- ok, cool [18:34] opd- it could be me or maybe zeit, shiber or MSS [18:34] opd- only time will tell [18:34] BigFree- pass him the info for this channel if you would [18:34] opd- will do [18:34] BigFree- who's MSS? [18:35] opd- ManicStarSeed [18:35] E_T- hmmm, I have sometimes had trouble reading his PM's when we did get them [18:35] BigFree- thnaks [18:35] E_T- DeepO that is [18:35] opd- I can bring that up if you like [18:35] E_T- sorry, I have to go [18:35] * E_T is now known as E_T_dinnertime [18:35] opd- Ok [18:36] BigFree- so what kind of peace was offered? [18:36] BigFree- was it recent long ago pr both? [18:36] E_T_dinnertime- talk to him about the possible lux trade and what we will need for that [18:36] BigFree- sure [18:36] BigFree- eat and enjoy [18:36] opd- gotta check forum [18:37] BigFree- sure [18:37] opd- BB et [18:38] opd- hmmmn [18:38] opd- not to sure about the peace with vox as wasn't around much [18:38] BigFree- oh, you just joined GS recently? [18:39] opd- There has always been alot of on going talk about what would be acceptable for peace [18:39] BigFree- I joined RP about 6 weeks ago myself [18:39] opd- no IIRC correctly was one of the first to join GS [18:39] opd- back when it was all about beating trip [18:39] BigFree- oh, you mean you have not been that active... [18:39] BigFree- LOL [18:40] opd- thats right have been internetless [18:40] BigFree- [18:40] BigFree- so are you guys now offering peace to Vox? [18:40] opd- We have had talks around peace with Vox recently [18:41] BigFree- CP [18:41] E_T_dinnertime- anything promicing? [18:41] E_T_dinnertime- back for just a moment [18:41] BigFree- don't type with your mouth full.. [18:41] BigFree- [18:41] opd- The concensus view is still too much that we were badly screwed over by vox [18:41] E_T_dinnertime- it's almost ready, I had to make the salads... [18:42] BigFree- my diiner [18:42] BigFree- is ready too [18:42] BigFree- NY steak [18:42] opd- Alot of us are unsure about peace aslong as the chance of them doing it again. [18:42] BigFree- that would be a concern [18:42] opd- is still there [18:42] E_T_dinnertime- we agree, but we also don't want to lose a good trading partner (to us that is)like vox [18:42] E_T_dinnertime- not atleast without someone to replace them [18:42] BigFree- LOL [18:43] opd- Are you aware of the peace talks going on between GS and Vox [18:43] BigFree- we have some lux we can trae you, but you don't have a harbor yet [18:43] opd- don't we? [18:43] E_T_dinnertime- We don't think that they would try to do anything like that again, atleast for a very long time [18:43] BigFree- nope, we can't trade with you on the screen [18:44] E_T_dinnertime- If you do go with peace, what will their status be? [18:44] E_T_dinnertime- we don't know of one, that's the most imprtant thing [18:45] opd- hmmmn they will not pose a threat to GS [18:45] * Togas has joined #ptwtalks [18:45] opd- lo togas [18:45] Togas- hello [18:45] E_T_dinnertime- If you do have a harbor, without some form of map to let us know were it's at, we can't trade to you [18:45] BigFree- brb, getting my dinner [18:45] * E_T_dinnertime sets mode: +o Togas [18:46] opd- We can certainly arrange a harbour and map linking [18:46] E_T_dinnertime- 2 people having dinner, and togas just finished his [18:46] BigFree- we should be the food team! [18:46] BigFree- Spanish Food Team [18:47] opd- We are aware that you helped vox out in some way at the beginning of the war. [18:47] E_T_dinnertime- please, Hey OPD, have you joined a PTWDG II team yet? Join team sunshine... [18:47] opd- Am a master. I could always switch though [18:48] opd- It is my view that Vox were seen as long term trading partners for yourselves [18:48] E_T_dinnertime- we had trade dealings with Vox, but as I said, they have been very good trade partners with RP [18:48] E_T_dinnertime- so the begining of the war and our deals just happend to coinside [18:49] opd- So vox status [18:49] opd- I wouldn't count on them as anything other than a tech at the start of a new era. [18:50] opd- And even that may be in doubt [18:50] E_T_dinnertime- as did deals that were already made that occured after the war had started, but were finalized long before the war had started [18:50] E_T_dinnertime- one of the things that RP doesn't want to to renig on a deal and then be called bad things from it [18:51] E_T_dinnertime- I have to eat, back in a while [18:52] opd- Ever drink desperados? [18:53] opd- tastes too limey [18:54] opd- So anyway [18:54] opd- anyone there? [18:54] opd- ???????? [18:54] opd- oh how rude [18:55] opd- and I thought we were making progress [18:55] opd- still pinging at 1 sec [18:55] opd- ok back in 5 mins [18:55] opd- were just about to get somewhere [18:57] Togas- OPD, sorry! [18:57] Togas- I'm not sure where the other two are, but I'm doing the save right now in another window [18:58] Togas- If you have any questions, let me know. [19:04] opd- You there? [19:05] Togas- yes [19:05] Togas- but trying to finish up save ... I have houseguests right now, we're going bowling shortly [19:05] BigFree- back [19:05] opd- can we continue this some other time? [19:05] Togas- so I've been mostly idle [19:05] opd- wb BF [19:05] BigFree- I can talk now [19:05] BigFree- sorry about that [19:05] opd- is ok [19:06] Togas- please keep chatting, I'm going to take screenshots now, then send off the save. [19:06] BigFree- let mne review what has been said so I can continue [19:07] opd- cannot stay much longer [19:07] BigFree- ok, fished reading [19:07] opd- it's 3 am here and have been at work all day [19:07] BigFree- we were dealing with Vox well before the war [19:08] opd- ok [19:08] BigFree- and the made deals before the war even started with us [19:08] opd- thats understood [19:08] BigFree- we have not made any deals since the war has begun [19:08] opd- so now perhaps you are looking for a new trading partner [19:08] BigFree- the war took us by complete surprise [19:09] BigFree- maybe they thought they couldn't truyst us to tell us that they were going to attack you [19:09] BigFree- I guess they could have thought GS and RP were buddies [19:09] opd- Do you know if any other civs played a role in the war? [19:09] BigFree- except for that skirmish with GoW, no [19:10] opd- How did lego react tot he war [19:10] Togas- OPD, I think that GS has been far too supicious. If you guys would have just talked to any of us and kept normal relations during the war, there wouldn't be all of this paranoia and finger pointing. [19:10] BigFree- How does Lego react to anything, they don't, they are happy being all alone to be able to build, they are not intersted in concerniong themselvs on other Civ's affairs. [19:11] opd- there is a belief among some people that vox had a puppet master [19:11] Togas- That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. [19:11] BigFree- I think Vox took it all upon themselves to do this [19:11] BigFree- They knew they had a certain window in which to use thier Immortals [19:12] opd- I must note that this is not at all a stumbling block towards trades and relations between RP and GS [19:12] BigFree- I think you guys hsould have been more prepared for it, frankly. [19:12] Togas- if we were in on it, they would have been a Monarchy before they attacked you. [19:12] opd- yeah probably [19:12] Togas- E_T was crying over the fact that we couldn't get them to buy Monarchy after they attacked you [19:13] BigFree- He was, it was fuuny, even after the fact [19:13] opd- it's just that they recieved alot of money to upgrade to immortals [19:13] opd- but thats all in the past [19:13] opd- no onw is in anyway pointing any fingers [19:13] BigFree- maybe they've been banking all their cash for a while [19:14] opd- perhaps [19:14] BigFree- All I know is that we have two Civ's on Estonia that we wnat to trade with, it hurts us not too. [19:14] opd- so anyway I really don't think we should concern ourselves with that [19:14] BigFree- agreed [19:14] opd- it matters not [19:15] BigFree- what kind of luxeries do you guys have to trade? [19:15] opd- don't know [19:16] opd- well to tell you the truth I can't say [19:16] opd- at this point anyway [19:16] BigFree- np [19:16] BigFree- just be aware that we want to trade some with you guys, if you are interested [19:16] opd- We would be [19:16] BigFree- [19:17] opd- what are you proposing [19:17] BigFree- but, i think you need a harbor first [19:17] opd- yeah [19:17] opd- How are you for resources? [19:17] BigFree- I'm proposing we swap luxeries for now, but maybe more.. [19:18] opd- are you reserching any tech [19:18] BigFree- we are fine we have extras we'd like to take advatage of and trae, as would any Civ. [19:18] BigFree- not really reaseraching anything yet, we just buy it form opther's for now, we are a porr nation. LOL [19:20] BigFree- what are you guys reaserching; what can we buy from you in the fuutre? [19:23] opd- there are lots of things that we could research. [19:23] opd- what are you interested in having. [19:23] E_T_dinnertime- back, salad, big baked potato and a thick Ribeye steak with mushrooms.... Yummy!! [19:23] * E_T_dinnertime is now known as E_T [19:23] opd- WB et [19:23] BigFree- anything really, at this popint [19:24] opd- like I said I don't know [19:24] opd- I think gow are trying to pre sell chiv but we could easily research it before they get it [19:24] E_T- we will have Ivory, Silks and spices that we can soon trade [19:25] opd- wow nice [19:25] E_T- but as we don't have links to most of the other civs, we don't have anyone to trade with [19:25] opd- are there any lux on voxs territory? [19:26] opd- A link can easily be arranged [19:26] E_T- so we have put off getting extras connected until we have a potenial customer for them [19:26] Togas- RP save was sent to Vox [19:26] Togas- I'm just about to head out. Please continue discussions. [19:27] opd- bb togas [19:27] Togas- take care [19:27] opd- u2 [19:27] opd- ok so heres the situation [19:28] * Togas has left #ptwtalks [19:28] opd- I don't speak for GS [19:28] opd- and the way things work it's hard to know people opinion on certain things [19:29] opd- from what has been said [19:29] opd- you are suggesting lux trading [19:29] opd- I can bring this to my people and we can come to a decision [19:29] opd- I afraid I cannot commit to anything really [19:30] opd- other than that I will try to make this happen [19:31] opd- although the way things are I think GS will go for this [19:32] E_T- We can work at getting extras of our luxes connected for trades [19:32] opd- That would be very beneficial to both of us,

	09-06-2003 10:52									#325
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Page 2 of GS-RP chat

quote: [19:32] E_T- as we are still trying to get out land settler and teh cities that have luxes connected [19:33] opd- although I think research is where GS would really like to have good relations [19:33] E_T- You have likely gotten a map of us from GoW, you will know that we have a lot of mountains to fight through with non-industru\ious workers [19:34] E_T- we do know from our intel that you have a city or 2 that is at very large sizes [19:34] opd- you can see EOTS on top 5? [19:34] E_T- so you must be running at very high lux taxs and or using specialist [19:35] opd- The internal structure of GS is amazing. [19:35] E_T- I think so, be we have goten some rumors from the others as to some of what might be going on [19:36] E_T- I do know that GoW was wanting to sell us a map that had small area of yours, but their price was a bit too high for us at the time [19:36] opd- not the best land but a very good use of it [19:36] opd- yeah thats pretty much useless [19:37] opd- how much they charging? [19:37] E_T- and the last map that we did get from Vox showed one of your cities, on the coast, but it doesn't have a harbor [19:38] opd- ok I gotta go in a min [19:38] E_T- I really can't remember, as I wasn't involed with those talks and didn't read those threads (too many other things going on) [19:38] opd- perhaps you'd like to have another get together perhaps with another GSer aswell. [19:38] E_T- sure, when would you like? [19:38] opd- Must test the water as to what other people think. [19:39] opd- don't know about time will have to speak to the powers that be. [19:39] E_T- O.k., do you have Bigfree's e-mail addy? [19:39] opd- no [19:39] BigFree- Pm's work for me as well [19:39] opd- ok [19:40] opd- gotta go then guys [19:40] BigFree- but here's my addy : bigfree1@attbi.com [19:40] opd- nice to talk to you [19:40] BigFree- you too [19:40] E_T- let me dig it up, as we like to email and PM at the same time (PM's can get lost if you don't log on to Poly, but e-mails can't really be ignored, IMHO) [19:40] opd- I for one am glad we had this discussion [19:40] BigFree- definatley [19:40] BigFree- I just wished I could type better! [19:41] BigFree- and faster [19:41] E_T- I'm at e_t_1@mpinet.com [19:41] E_T- do you need us to send you any of this conversation? [19:42] opd- no can save it [19:42] opd- ok see you soon [19:42] BigFree- adios [19:42] E_T- alright, just wasn't sure you got the very first part is all [19:42] BigFree- this channel is permannet now [19:42] opd- oh **** [19:42] E_T- have fun in jolly ol'.... [19:42] opd- forgot to start logging [19:42] BigFree- oops [19:43] opd- can you send me a copy? [19:43] E_T- what's your e-mail addy, I'll send it to you [19:43] BigFree- I can send to you, what is your email? [19:43] opd- dwyerowen(at)hotmail.com [19:43] opd- cheers [19:43] opd- ok see you [19:43] * opd has quit IRC (Quit: **** you) [19:44] BigFree- i hope that wasn't meant for us. LOL [19:44] E_T- I have to quit this channel to attach the log [19:44] BigFree- ok [19:44] BigFree- I'll stay [19:44] E_T- no, he has that as a standard for mIRC [19:44] * E_T has left #PTWTalks [20:03] * E_T has joined #PTWTalks [20:14] * nbarclay has joined #PTWTalks [20:15] E_T- Hello there [20:16] nbarclay- OPD posted a message a couple hours ago indicating that BigFree wanted to chat with someone from GS. I just got it and figured I'd pop in. [20:16] E_T- Nathan, haven't chatted with you for a long time [20:16] nbarclay- I don't tend to chat much. Pretty much just on GS business. [20:17] E_T- yes, we chatted for a while, do you want us to send you the log? [20:17] nbarclay- And yeah, it's been a while. [20:18] * Trip[gone] is now known as Trip- [20:18] E_T- they harry eyeball is back [20:19] BigFree- he's no trouble as long as he's quiet... [20:19] Trip-- I'm always watching :P [20:19] Trip-- don't mind me, I'll just be reading what's already been said in here [20:19] BigFree- We were taling lux trades with OPD ealier [20:20] BigFree- it seems you need a harbor in order for this to happen [20:21] nbarclay- But I'm the main player and coordinator for GS, and that takes a LOT of time. [20:21] nbarclay- Especially with the Vox war. [20:21] E_T- but it's a challenge, makes it more exciting, IMHO [20:22] nbarclay- True. [20:22] E_T- anyways, yes, lux trades and more lines of communications [20:22] nbarclay- And if there were a few more hours in each day, I might actually have time for it. [20:23] E_T- I have to make time..... between work and homelife.... [20:24] BigFree- I steal time from other's; I just mugged an old lady for 35 minutes the other day.. [20:24] nbarclay- [20:24] E_T- Is that all you got from here [20:24] nbarclay- All I got from where? [20:24] BigFree- the ***** was poor, her time was almost up, so to speak [20:24] BigFree- he meant *her [20:24] E_T- *her, talking to BF [20:25] BigFree- ok, back to business [20:25] nbarclay- So did you get anywhere in discussions with OPD other than finding out we don't have a harbor yet? [20:26] BigFree- we knew that already [20:26] E_T- anyways, as we were telling OPD, we will be having several luxurues connected up relatively soon and will need customers for them [20:26] BigFree- he didn't have to say [20:26] nbarclay- Knew from the fact that trades were grayed out? [20:27] E_T- we actually don't know if you have a city that already has one or if you are even building one sometime soon [20:27] BigFree- We saw a Galley of yours near our coast and since we don't havbe a sea route yet, you must not have a harbor. [20:27] E_T- Yes, cant even try to trade with you [20:28] nbarclay- Would trades show up on your end if you don't know where our harbor is? I'm not sure how the mechanics of that work. [20:28] nbarclay- (With AIs, you pretty much always have their map by this point.) [20:28] E_T- Brb, need to have a smoke, too long after dinner and I didn't get one after OPD left [20:28] BigFree- If you canb trade with us, then we can trade with you, it works both ways [20:29] E_T- pathfinder ruotine needs an endpoint that it can route to [20:29] BigFree- As sson as we saw you Galley, a sea route was opened, but no harbor to connect to. [20:30] * E_T is now known as E_T_outside_smoking [20:30] BigFree- If you had a harbor, as soon as you saw ours, a path would have been open [20:31] nbarclay- In any case, yes, we will need to build a harbor before we can start trading. The question is, is there a prospective trade that would make it worth our while to speed up that process. [20:31] BigFree- anyways, it is apparent that we could trade luxes. [20:32] nbarclay- I thought Lux was gone. [20:32] BigFree- we have extra luxes and you have large cities that need them [20:32] BigFree- LOL [20:33] nbarclay- How many luxuries do you have that you're in a position to trade right now? [20:33] BigFree- We could probably go one for one on the Luxes and then if we have extra's we could do other deals, most likely fo rtech and such. [20:33] BigFree- WE can get them linked up very soon, we have two right now,IIRC [20:34] BigFree- the other two, very soon [20:34] BigFree- depends on how fast you need them [20:34] BigFree- and what we would get in return [20:35] Trip-- so you mean you have 4 total? [20:35] BigFree- yes [20:35] Trip-- confusion :P [20:35] BigFree- back to the hole now [20:35] BigFree- what is so confusing [20:36] Trip-- [21:33] BigFree- WE can get them linked up very soon, we have two right now,IIRC [20:36] Trip-- [21:34] BigFree- the other two, very soon [20:36] BigFree- he asked what we have avaialble for trade "right now" [20:36] BigFree- so, two "right now" [20:36] BigFree- then the other two depending... [20:37] Trip-- chat with him, not me :P [20:37] BigFree- that's what I said "back to the hole now" [20:37] nbarclay- Any thoughts on what you would want for the luxuries once we get them hooked up? [20:38] BigFree- well, like I said; one for one on the luxes till you have no more to offer, then we can trade the other lux(s) for techs and such; it's up for negotiating. [20:38] nbarclay- you get them hooked up [20:38] nbarclay- I mean [20:38] BigFree- right [20:38] BigFree- I knew [20:40] BigFree- If you have two, we trade those straight up most likely. Then if you have no other luxes we can substitute gold/tech/other stuff for the trades. [20:40] BigFree- What would you offer for two luxeries? [20:41] E_T_outside_smoking- one thing that we are in the "decision crux" is how soon to connect up our extra luxes [20:41] nbarclay- At the moment, I don't think trading two would do us much good. Extra luxuries only matter if they let you change the luxury slider setting. [20:42] nbarclay- And in a GA, with big cities, each notch of the luxury slider is pretty big. [20:42] E_T_outside_smoking- as we have non-industrious workers and lots ou mountains to deal with, it take time and effort to get things done [20:42] E_T_outside_smoking- but if we know that we have a customer for the "goods", then we can look at expiditing thigs somewaht [20:42] BigFree- but,you GA willnot last forever [20:43] * E_T_outside_smoking is now known as E_T_taking_trash_out [20:43] E_T_taking_trash_out- BRB [20:44] nbarclay- Agreed that the GA won't last forever. But keep in mind that we also have a timing question: how high a priority do we make a harbor? [20:45] BigFree- true, it's up to you on that; we can only offer what we have for right now and you can make a counter offe to see how important it is too your team. [20:45] Trip-- trade uranium for aluminum and rubber :P [20:45] BigFree- let's say we go straight up on two luxes for two luxes; how important is that to your team? [20:46] nbarclay- I think this is something I'll need to post to the team message board and see what our level of interest is. We'll also have to check what other civs on your continent have the same luxuries. [20:46] BigFree- then is your team willing to trade techs for the other 2 luxes? [20:46] BigFree- sure [20:46] BigFree- I can tell you now though [20:47] Trip-- "They would be insulted by this deal!" [20:47] nbarclay- Insulted by what deal? [20:47] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +o Trip- [20:47] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: -o Trip- [20:47] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: -v Trip- [20:47] Trip-- that's always what the AI says :P [20:47] BigFree- LOL [20:48] BigFree- the AI is a Moron though, but that's why you get along with him I guess. [20:48] E_T_taking_trash_out- Trip, your here to observe [20:48] nbarclay- Tech-for-luxury deals work great for human players who have a nice lead over AIs. [20:48] nbarclay- But this game is a whole lot closer. [20:48] Trip-- the AI doesn't like vice versa though :P [20:48] BigFree- It is a close game [20:49] BigFree- each team will try to kockey for the most of their resources [20:49] nbarclay- Kockey? [20:49] BigFree- We would not blame you for that either [20:49] E_T_taking_trash_out- one moment [20:49] BigFree- *Jockey [20:49] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +m [20:49] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +v Trip- [20:49] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: -v Trip- [20:49] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +v nbarclay [20:50] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +v E_T_taking_trash_out [20:50] * E_T_taking_trash_out sets mode: +v BigFree [20:50] E_T_taking_trash_out- there [20:50] * E_T_taking_trash_out is now known as E_T [20:50] E_T- he can observe but not talk [20:50] nbarclay- I think this is complicated enough that I'll need to take it back to the team for discussion of what we might want to do. [20:50] * Trip- has left #ptwtalks [20:51] BigFree- RP will try to get the most it can reasonably get for our resources, GS would be wise to do the same; no one can blame anyone for trying to do that. [20:51] nbarclay- Agreed. The real fun is trying to find overlap in our concepts of what is "reasonable." [20:51] BigFree- You have to take what the game mechanics allow you to take [20:52] BigFree- right [20:52] E_T- also, please remember that we have to work to get them available, so it's no little effort on our part, either [20:52] BigFree- that's the diplomacy model the AI cannot do the "right way" [20:53] BigFree- yes, he knows that we don't go to he far reaches of our Civ to hook up unneeded Luxes [20:53] nbarclay- I assume you'd be willing to take gold rather than techs if we can find common ground on the amount? [20:53] BigFree- but if we have a proposal on the table, we'll make it a priority [20:54] nbarclay- I understand about your problem of trying to figure out how big a priority to make hooking up luxuries for trading purposes. [20:54] BigFree- gold versus techs?? We'd be inclined to take techs, but if there's enough gold to buy one form someone else, then that's all the same to us. [20:54] E_T- or maybe a discount for the techs, in conjunction with the luxes [20:55] BigFree- right, we are flexible and would rather make a fair deal than try to rob you. [20:55] nbarclay- Frankly, after what happened with Feudalism, GS is going to be a LOI more reluctant to push the tech pace than we would have been. [20:55] nbarclay- We thought we had deals lined up in advance with GoW and ND. [20:56] nbarclay- ND pulled out because the deal hadn't gone through proper procedural channels, and ended up getting it from someone else. [20:56] BigFree- [20:56] nbarclay- You went for the cheap price from GoW. [20:56] BigFree- sounds like BS to me [20:56] nbarclay- Lego got it from someone else. [20:56] E_T- we are traders at heart and want to have good relations with our customers, both now and in the future [20:56] BigFree- BS on the ND part of the deal [20:56] nbarclay- And the whole thing was a total disaster for us. The tech ended up costing us several times what it did anyone else. [20:57] BigFree- [20:57] BigFree- you should sell to everyone at once or none at all perhaps [20:57] nbarclay- I can understand your desire to get the best deal, but there's such a thing as killing the goose that lays the golden egg, so to speak. [20:57] BigFree- agreed [20:57] E_T- we are sorry, but we did try to work on that, but were told that it was a final price [20:57] BigFree- yeah, i had heard that 200 was "final" [20:58] E_T- as we were paying other people (more than 1) for other tech, we just coudn't afford it at that time [20:58] nbarclay- According to the last posts to the GS board, 200 was final if you wanted the tech immediately. [20:58] BigFree- If we had know we could buy it from you at 75 gold, we would have. [20:59] BigFree- 10 turns later of course [20:59] E_T- we then looked elsewhere and found a beter price from GoW (who likely sold it to the others, too) [20:59] BigFree- yes, GoW is the ones who provbably whored your tech [21:00] nbarclay- If I'm remembering the cost correctly, 75 gold would have been less than 1/10 of what we paid to research it. To me, that seemed more like a joke than like a reasonable offer. [21:00] E_T- or even a little more sooner than 10 turns [21:00] E_T- well, GoW likely got that, 3 times [21:00] nbarclay- Especially since Togas worded it as if we needed to beat that price. [21:00] E_T- and they payed you what, 200 [21:00] BigFree- It is really cheap, I was surprised, when i joined this game 6-7 weeks ago, that Techs were sold so cheaply [21:01] E_T- that has actually been GoW's fault [21:01] E_T- they are really whoring the tech and we still haven't found a way to beat them at it [21:01] BigFree- but when you have two Civs who hav a tech, and they oth want somnething for it, they are going to drive the prices down unless the cooperrate and fix the price. [21:02] BigFree- and when the price is fixed, you split the difference when people pay you for it. [21:02] E_T- we were actually the ones who had first started the 10 turn no resale clause, to try to keep GoW reigned in, but they still got around it [21:03] E_T- they would underbid quite a bit [21:04] BigFree- Would your team be interested in trading Maps? [21:04] E_T- and then we had to pay quite a bit for techs to get into the Middle ages and didn't get anything for Monarchy, which we put a lot of our effort into [21:04] E_T- yes, the maps will defiately be needed to get the lux trades going [21:05] nbarclay- We've already obtained a map of your continent. Vox sold it to us, and then turned around and used the gold to help pay for their attack on us. [21:06] BigFree- HAHA [21:06] E_T- it happens, we thought that they were fools to have started a war with you while they were still in despotism [21:06] BigFree- one of those laugh and cry at the same time comments [21:07] E_T- we didn't even understand why they didn't even want to get Monarchy from us for that, but we now know that they needed the cash for their war [21:07] nbarclay- I thought they were fools at first myself, but then I ran the numbers on troop support costs. It's actually not that bad a government for them, and they couldn't have afforded the time it would have taken to change governments. [21:08] E_T- true, but even with a few turns of anarchy, being in monarchy would have helped greatly [21:09] BigFree- I agree [21:09] nbarclay- Would it? Monarchy only provides free support for two units from towns size 6 and under. Despotism provides free support for four. (If I'm remembering right.) [21:09] BigFree- the commerce and shield in a GA are very noticble bewtween the two goverments [21:10] E_T- Yes, but you don't get the despotic reduction in sheilds

	09-06-2003 10:53									#326
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Page 3 of GS-RP chat

quote: [21:10] nbarclay- Do you have a map of Vox's territory? [21:10] E_T- or trade [21:10] BigFree- yes, we do [21:10] E_T- Yes, we got it about the time that the war started [21:10] E_T- we have seen your now cities [21:10] E_T- *new [21:11] BigFree- Inchon, Inchoff very creative [21:11] E_T- [21:11] E_T- should have been Inchin, Inchout.... [21:12] E_T- [21:12] nbarclay- I assume you see the significance of the name Inchon? [21:12] E_T- I'm not naive... [21:13] nbarclay- It's not a question of naivity. It's a question of knowledge of history. [21:13] E_T- because you have royally screwed them... [21:13] E_T- On, I was thinking of something else, but yes [21:14] E_T- WWII [21:14] nbarclay- Korean war. [21:14] E_T- close, I'm not a war buff [21:15] BigFree- North invaded the South, right? [21:15] nbarclay- Right. [21:15] E_T- but I do now remember that they were loading and unloading almost on the same days [21:15] BigFree- I've heard about it, but have not read about it [21:15] E_T- first part of the war, IIRC [21:16] E_T- before they brought Macarther in to fight it [21:16] E_T- then they later fired him [21:16] nbarclay- The Inchon campaign was an amphibious landing behind North Korea's front lines. [21:16] nbarclay- MacArthur was the one who pulled off the Inchon landing. [21:16] nbarclay- But yes, he was fired later. [21:16] E_T- yes, that was it [21:17] E_T- yes, he wanted to Nuke China after they had come into the war [21:17] BigFree- he got fired cause he didn't have enough Luxes to satiate the people back home. [21:17] nbarclay- [21:18] E_T- we figure that you're researching Chivalry [21:18] BigFree- I though *** was Nationalism... [21:19] E_T- for the war effort, If we get this lux deal hammered out, how about letting us have first crack at it? [21:19] E_T- we know that GoW is researching it and that if ND wasn't, they are now after they got Feudalism from GoW [21:20] * E_T still doesn't know why GoW sold them that [21:20] nbarclay- Actually, we've had our research on hold since we got Feudalism, originally using gold to rush troops and now building up some gold we haven't decided what to do with yet. [21:21] E_T- not even a specialist doing 1 turn research? [21:21] nbarclay- (One of the quirks of Republic, especially with a big standing army, is that you can build up a big cash stockpile and then do a lot of research in a hurry instead of researching a little at a time.) [21:21] BigFree- right [21:21] nbarclay- What's the point in a specialist doing 1-turn research if you know you'll have the tech in under 40 turns? [21:22] E_T- true [21:22] BigFree- you use deficit spending, though you have a abnk to draw from [21:22] nbarclay- But I would advise against placing bets on our researching Chivalry ourselves rather than buying it. [21:22] BigFree- with the deficit being for that turn, not what is in the treasury [21:23] BigFree- so you will buy from GoW? [21:23] nbarclay- Right. Build up a reserve and then research at a deficit. That provides a little more flexibility. [21:24] nbarclay- I won't say more than that the possibility of our buying it from GoW does exist. [21:24] E_T- true, except you have to keep all of those people happy, too [21:24] BigFree- It does, it worke nicely in Civ3 [21:24] nbarclay- Keeping track of where the luxury slider will have to be set is definitely part of the process. [21:25] E_T- well, we can try to help you with that part [21:25] nbarclay- For the right price? [21:25] E_T- one thing that we are curious about, is what your intentions towards Vox will be [21:26] E_T- we have heard that they are trying to talk pease with you [21:27] E_T- and we know that they will likely not be able to repeate themselves for a very long time [21:27] BigFree- ahh, finish them off. [21:27] E_T- if ever [21:27] BigFree- send them to Trp Land [21:27] BigFree- *Trip [21:27] * E_T sets mode: -m [21:27] nbarclay- With the current tone on the GS discussion boards, if Vox survives, it is unlikely to be on our continent. I hope that won't upset RP too much. [21:28] E_T- they have been good business partners of ours [21:28] BigFree- we will be bummed about losing a trade partner, but you guys seem like you could fill in where they will leave off. [21:29] nbarclay- And they used the proceeds of their sales to you to attack us, forcing us to waste the better part of our GA to build up our military instead of for economic investment. [21:29] E_T- they have been good when it comes to trade talks and have given on a few things when we have asked [21:29] E_T- Yes, and we are sorry about that [21:30] E_T- we had worked out deals with them sometime in advance of the war and didn't see this comming [21:30] nbarclay- The real problem, though, is that after their earlier treachery, what could they say that would assure us they won't try it again if an opportunity arises? [21:31] E_T- Part of our talks were ongoing when they first had established that city on our contenant, in old Luxia [21:31] * MSS_BRB has joined #PTWTalks [21:31] E_T- the fact that you wooped their asses [21:31] * MSS_BRB is now known as MSS [21:31] * E_T sets mode: +o MSS [21:31] MSS- Hey folks.. [21:32] E_T- Hey MSS, long time, no see [21:32] nbarclay- Did victory in World War I prevent Germany from starting the European part of WWII? [21:32] MSS- please continue [21:32] E_T- no, but it was a different situation [21:32] * MSS waves at E_T [21:32] * E_T waves back at MSS [21:33] nbarclay- Hi MSS. [21:33] MSS- What is the general point of discussion? [21:33] E_T- trades [21:33] MSS- Hey NB [21:33] nbarclay- The big thing RP wanted to talk about is the possibility of trading luxuries to us. [21:33] * MSS nods [21:33] MSS- what are our options [21:33] BigFree- Lets try not to compare real world war issues to Civ 3, they are different in more respects than not. [21:34] nbarclay- They have two hooked up and are trying to find out whether they can get enough from us to make it worth making hooking up the other two a high priority. [21:34] MSS- it does confuse an issus [21:34] E_T- not only that, but to help open lines of communications, so that the little thing that happened in the public forum doesn't happen again [21:34] nbarclay- I'll grant that real world and Civ 3 can be very different, but Vox could provide a ready-made ally if someone else wants to attack us. [21:35] BigFree- true [21:35] E_T- very much so [21:35] BigFree- who's be dumb enough for that though [21:35] MSS- Are we arguing for peace with Vox and allowing them to share our contenent? [21:35] BigFree- *who'd [21:35] E_T- the one that we really have our eye on is lego [21:35] BigFree- yes [21:36] E_T- they even have it set in the CoL not to trade their map [21:36] * MSS nods at legothrea=t [21:36] BigFree- Lego is prolly just laughing their asses off [21:36] BigFree- They are build happy right now [21:36] MSS- they are in a position of power [21:36] nbarclay- RP asked what our intentions were toward Vox and I told them that if Vox survives, it's unlikely to be on our continent. [21:36] MSS- Manifest Destiny [21:36] nbarclay- (I figure they'll find out sooner or later, if only when it happens. ) [21:36] E_T- they are more than likely helping to keep the war going, AKAIK [21:37] MSS- They brought it on... [21:37] MSS- Lego helping Vox?- [21:37] nbarclay- Who brought it on? [21:37] MSS- Vox [21:37] E_T- we have word from GoW (they want to sell us their map) is that Legoland is very large [21:37] MSS- they unleashed us, the only way we can be pacified is with our contenent [21:38] MSS- pacified is teh wron word... [21:38] MSS- appeased is better [21:38] nbarclay- Aeson's run calculations on how many tiles there "should" be that we can't see, and those bear out the idea that Legoland is a big place. [21:38] BigFree- GS will be content with the continent [21:38] MSS- and that frightens me.... [21:39] MSS- BF.. Yes [21:39] E_T- it also frightens us [21:39] BigFree- Lego is huge, no doubt, Im hoping for a lot of dester and Mountains [21:39] BigFree- *desert [21:39] BigFree- with jungle thrown in for measure [21:39] BigFree- [21:40] E_T- which is one reason that we are worried about losing a good trading parter with lux and not having one to fill the void, so to speak [21:40] E_T- Lego go quite a sum from us a while back and they have been skinflints for anything else [21:40] nbarclay- We're definitely interested in trading if the terms are fair. [21:41] BigFree- so are we [21:41] E_T- not lux, vox [21:41] E_T- same fate, wrong civ [21:41] nbarclay- Now if we can just agree on "fair". [21:41] MSS- Cant we go lux for lux for now? [21:41] BigFree- lets see if we can get some proposals sent back and forth [21:42] MSS- That sounds good [21:42] E_T- with the way that GoW had underpricesd the tech market, we really are trying to still figure the difinition of fair [21:42] nbarclay- MSS, we don't have a harbor yet, and at the moment, trading two of our luxuries for two of RP's won't help our luxury slider setting. So while I like the idea, it's not worth making a harbor a higher priority for. [21:42] BigFree- No kidding [21:43] MSS- gotcha NB [21:43] nbarclay- (We're working on a harbor, but it's not exactly in one of our most productive cities.) [21:43] BigFree- we understand [21:43] E_T- plus we will need your map, as the pathfinder routine need to "see" your harbor to get the trade initiated (from us to you) [21:43] MSS- So we are looking at cementing a deal in the neax 5-10 turns? [21:44] BigFree- just thro a couple of captured Voxian workers in there, drop to Desops then rush them bastards to death! [21:44] MSS- SICK [21:44] MSS- hell were relgious [21:44] BigFree- [21:44] E_T- we are still working on getting stuff connected up,. but if we don't have customers, then it's not a priority [21:44] BigFree- a catch 22 [21:44] E_T- if we do have potential customers, then it does become a priority [21:45] MSS- What is a reasonable non-prioty time frame? [21:45] BigFree- we will get them hooked up at a reasonable rate anyhow, cause we know GS want to do a deal at aome point in the near fuutre. [21:45] E_T- MSS, we are also Non-Industrious and we have mointains that we are still crossing [21:46] MSS- and our harbor? care to divulge et of compleat [21:46] * MSS nods at E_T [21:46] nbarclay- Do both sides need to see the trade route, or just one? [21:47] BigFree- I though only one, but i guess I could be wrong [21:47] E_T- If We through enough workers at this, it will still be atleast 8 turns to connect (travel time included) [21:47] MSS- Just one that I know of. Both need harbors. Kind of like trading maps befor Map Making [21:47] BigFree- right [21:47] BigFree- thta' the way I looked at it [21:47] MSS- so we have 10 turns to work this out in detail [21:47] BigFree- sounds fair [21:47] E_T- but we can have more than 2 luxes likely within 20 to 30 turns [21:48] E_T- You likely have our map, so you know what we have available in luxes [21:48] nbarclay- You're figuring 20-30 turns as the fastest you'd reasonably be able to hook up the remaining luxuries? [21:48] BigFree- or sooner depending on what is offered for them [21:48] MSS- We can cross tose bridges then. Assuming that we have no other source, we would love to trade [21:49] MSS- NB, how many luxes do we need to make a change in Lux slider? [21:49] BigFree- our workers have other priorities right now [21:49] E_T- at first cut, but we can see what else we can do to speed things up [21:49] E_T- like more than 3 workers on a flat tile will still only use 3 workers to road it [21:50] E_T- and then you have to wait for the next tile to get roaded before you can move to the next [21:50] nbarclay- It sounds like the additional luxuries wouldn't come into play until after our GA and the war with Vox are over. I don't know what the picture will be then; Aeson very possibly might if he's kept track from his earlier tests. [21:50] nbarclay- (That is, beyond the first two.) [21:51] E_T- but we should have 2 within 12 turns, the others, depends on what they are pulled from to get there [21:51] MSS- gotcha.... so it sounds like GS has some homework to do. [21:51] BigFree- ok, just let us know how important it i to you and how fat you'd need them. [21:51] nbarclay- In theory, a six-worker crew could use a leapfrog approach to advance one tile per turn. But in practice, the cost of that would probably be prohibitive. [21:52] E_T- especiall in workers [21:52] nbarclay- In workers, and in what else could be built instead of workers. [21:53] E_T- which we are still trying to gather..... we are geting there, but sometimes roleplaying has it's disadvanteges [21:53] BigFree- yes, with the 6 worker, 3 are idle each turn [21:53] nbarclay- No. Three are not idle. [21:53] E_T- I know what he's talking about [21:53] nbarclay- Three road, and then the other three move over the road. [21:53] MSS- We might be able to help with that (workers), I will check in with the team. [21:53] BigFree- oh, I was still thinking about the mountains [21:54] MSS- Mountains take time.... [21:54] E_T- part of our problem had been terrain, lots of mountains and hills [21:54] nbarclay- Would RP be willing to allow GS workers with pike escorts onto your lands to help with the connection, if GS is interested? [21:54] E_T- like the silks are in jungles.... [21:54] MSS- Good for production if you have the food... [21:55] E_T- That is something that we can't answer right nos [21:55] nbarclay- It's just an idea I came up with; I'm not sure how good or practical it would be. [21:55] E_T- *now [21:55] MSS- That way we get the industrial trat working for us.... [21:55] MSS- Us= RP+GS [21:56] E_T- and that would likely have to be discussed and polled on, but I really don't think that the team would go for it [21:56] E_T- we will present it to them and we can see [21:56] nbarclay- Understood. I'm not sure whether we could spare the galleys soon enough to make it practical either. [21:56] E_T- as you said, it is an idea that we can explore [21:57] BigFree- it's possible, but the rest of the team doesn't like the idea of inving people over to as of yet, unsettled lands. [21:57] E_T- more than likely, the timeing would not be favorable, as buy the time that you got them here and such, we would likely be almost finished [21:58] BigFree- true [21:58] MSS- nod, a worker dal would need to be decided in the next turn or two to mak it worthwhile., But those other two luxes hook-up would benefit greatly [21:59] E_T- it would actually be faster for you to sell them to us, as being industial "slaves", they should work just as fast as our regular ones [22:00] BigFree- pssibly, we'll ask the team [22:00] BigFree- hmm [22:00] BigFree- never thought about that [22:00] E_T- and then as part of the deal, when we are done with connecting them, we trade them back [22:00] E_T- but IIRC, we still need that harbor/map [22:00] BigFree- a very novel idea [22:00] nbarclay- The speed of slaves is based on the buying civ's traits, not the selling civ's traits. [22:01] BigFree- yep, you are right [22:01] E_T- I tried to do that in one of my PBEM's and couldn't without those 2 things [22:01] nbarclay- It would be rather more than two turns before we'd have galleys to spare. [22:01] MSS- Hey this is good stuff and I am glad we are talking. My folks are in from NYC, so Ishould go and spend some time with them. [22:01] BigFree- LOL [22:01] BigFree- we are your family damn it [22:02] E_T- [22:02] E_T- GS and RP needs to talk more often [22:02] nbarclay- Civs have to have cities on the same continent to trade workers. [22:02] MSS- hehe [22:03] E_T- we had almost the same kind of problem with GoW and then we talked it out and are good neighbors [22:03] MSS- Well my parents are cooing over my new son. Take care. Chat at ypu all latter.... [22:03] BigFree- adios [22:03] nbarclay- Bye. [22:03] BigFree- take care [22:03] MSS- parting is syuch.... [22:03] E_T- Hmmm, maybe we can get Vox to "gift" us one of their cities [22:04] BigFree- LOL [22:04] MSS- TWISTED E_T...... [22:04] E_T- Yes I am.... [22:04] E_T- [22:04] MSS- bye [22:04] * MSS has left #PTWTalks [22:04] E_T- later [22:05] E_T- let MSS know that Congrats on his son [22:05] nbarclay- If he reads the log, you just did. [22:06] E_T- 4 oh, a quick reminder, when you post this log in your forum, make sure that you edit any ISDG things that can be construed as a sensitive nature [22:07] BigFree- any other concerns or questions from GS? [22:07] nbarclay- Will do. [22:07] E_T- ty [22:08] nbarclay- I just looked at the map, and with where most of the luxuries that need hooked up seem to be, I don't think the idea of our bringing over workers is going to be viable enough to be worth asking your team about. [22:08] E_T- I thing we are done, my ass is a peice of lead now..... [22:08] E_T- that's what I though, too [22:08] BigFree- ok nathan [22:09] nbarclay- I can't think of anything else that needs discussed. I do very definitely like the direction relations between our teams seem to be going now. [22:09] BigFree- as do we. [22:09] E_T- same here [22:09] BigFree- maybe we had the wrong people talking before [22:09] BigFree- edit that out though :P [22:09] nbarclay- Or the wrong people not talking? [22:09] BigFree- LOL [22:09] E_T- Trip could have been in on a historic event, but he couldn't keep his mouth shut [22:10] BigFree- HAHA [22:10] E_T- so much for a passive observer [22:10] nbarclay- So shall we sign off now? [22:11] BigFree- sure, this cahnne is permanent now, so any time you can drtop by is fine [22:11] E_T- history is full of the wrong people talking or not talking at the wrong times [22:11] BigFree- have you choose to log this nathan? [22:12] BigFree- do we need to send you a copy? [22:12] E_T- do you need us to send you a log? [22:12] E_T- crosspost [22:13] nbarclay- What I normally do is copy and paste from the screen buffer, so I don't have to set up logging in advance. Actually, I haven't even figured out how to on the program I use (IceChat). [22:13] BigFree- we will send you a copy, it is much easier that way [22:14] nbarclay- Okay, thanks. [22:14] BigFree- try getting mIRC [22:14] BigFree- just give me your addy [22:14] E_T- we'll send you a long, I still have you e-mail addy, you just need to edit out the ISDG stuff and we'll be o.k. [22:14] nbarclay- As I recall, you're supposed to pay for mIRC if you use it for any length of time. IceChat is completely free. [22:14] nbarclay- Will do. Thanks. [22:15] E_T- You can register it, but..... [22:15] E_T- [22:15] BigFree- ok then, goodnight [22:15] nbarclay- I feel better about using a program that's truly free, and IceChat works well enough. [22:15] E_T- nbarclay(AT)hiwaay.net [22:15] nbarclay- Thanks for a nice chat. [22:15] E_T- right? [22:16] nbarclay- Right. [22:16] BigFree- [22:16] BigFree- adios [22:16] E_T- later [22:16] nbarclay- Bye. [22:16] * nbarclay has quit IRC (Quit: IceChat IRC Client - Download at www.IceChat.net)

	09-06-2003 11:09									#327
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

SUMMARY/POINTS OF INTERST

1. GS has no harbors.

2. GS likely has few marketplaces. (luxes make little difference to happiness for them)

3. GS does not desire peace with Vox. (for most of the team)

4. GS wants to trade luxes evenly for the two that they have, but is reluctant to give us tech for our other two luxes. (they also noted that other Civ's on bob could have same luxes as us; ND has spices, but only one diamond, though not yet in their territory)

5. GS is not currently researching anything (even at the 40 turn pace), but will likely start to research soon. They left open the possibility that they will buy Chivalry from GoW. It sounded as if they would do that.

6. They are really pissed at Vox for screwing up their GA.

7. Vox sold it's map of Bob to GS, then declared war on GS soon after.

8. We may get a map trade in the future, but it is in the air for right now.

9. GS wants for us to be their allies; they see us as being able to be stronger than them in the long run.

10. GS is worried about a potential Civ or two joining with Vox right now, GS feels they are vulnerable to that sort of thing tight now. (could be a bluff though)

11. GS is worried about Lego in the future and highly suspects Lego of giving Gold to Vox. ( )

I can't think of anything else right now. If you have any questions, please start a thread in the forum with a link to this thread and I or ET will try to answer them.

EDIT: Thanks for your help ET!

Last edited by BigFree on 09-06-2003 at 11:16

	09-06-2003 11:09									#328
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We had Invited Trip as an Observer to History in action, but he wanted to be an a**, so we moderated the room and made him shut up, he left.... So much for silent Opbservation.....

Several things interesting from these two chats, but I get up for work in 4 1/2 hours, so I'll try to post back about it tomorrow, if BF doesn't got to it first.

E_T

	09-06-2003 11:16									#329
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Too tired, fixed it now...

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 09-06-2003 at 11:22

	10-06-2003 10:38									#330
	Increase the size of your Attachments

PM to ZargonX of Lego

quote: Hey ZargonX Referencing our chat; Role Play offers to trade Iron to Vox while Lego gives Role Play Theology now and Chivarly on the turn it is available to Lego. BigFree