29-09-2003 15:32									#451
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The AI always begins to ask for peace when things go bad at their side...

Lets sharpen our swords once more to cut not only parchment...

Let's go for Aggies head, I'm sure our King would be delighted to have it on a pole before his casle...

Statues of GoW leaders are so nice when they are made of human flesh...

Soldier Aidun Cian of the Royal Spanish Army

	02-10-2003 04:00									#452
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm starting to get frustrated with Legoland. I agree with BigFree that they are likely helping GoW and ND at this point, greatly (and rightly) fearing a GS/RP victory.

To stir the pot and perhaps get Legoland to rethink this decision (assuming it's the one they've made), I have been chatting with ZargonX about that we are only allied with GS for the purpose of bailing us out of this war and that we must pay them with a little land on Bob in return... however, we are interested in helping Legoland long-term.

Since ZargonX hasn't been online lately, I chatted with Kloreep. The key piece was this:

quote: Arnelos> is ZargonX ever going to come back online so I can talk to him about us potentially helping Lego in the future? Kloreep> Dunno. Arnelos> afterall, our agreement with GS is to bail our asses out of this war in return for some land on Bob... that does not mean we are permanently forced to help them win the game Kloreep> He's been busy recently, GF's back was hurt... Arnelos> but if we can't get ANY form of talk with Legoland about future cooperation, we'll probably have little choice but to resort to GS as a long-term partner Kloreep> I'll pass this on to our forum. Arnelos> thanks

Let's hope that gets the ball rolling at Legoland again. I want them to believe that a long-term locked partnership between RP and GS does not exist and need not be formed unless Legoland forces us by their lack of cooperation to form it. In essence, I want Legoland to believe that THEY get to choose whether we will be helping them or helping Gathering Storm. If Legoland does not do enough to help us, they know we'll walk and go help GS rather than them.

This gives Legoland and incentive to help us... after which we can certainly continue to play the ruse of helping them, while in reality helping GS far more and, in the end, siding when GS when it will truly count.

	02-10-2003 08:32									#453
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The Attempted Seduction of Legoland

My goal here was simply to construct a version of our goals that is close enough to the truth to be believable, close enough to what I think some people can live with to be agreeable, vague enough that if things work out a bit differently (especially in how much of a "small" piece of Bob that GS gets), people won't be able to object until it's too late, and seductive enough for Legoland to at least not work against us.

The next chat I need to have is another chat with Beta about whether Vox would truly be willing to go along with such a plan and whether they would willing to support it (and how much support they could provide).

Please keep in mind that not all of the claims I am making in this chat are entirely honest, ESPECIALLY where Gathering Storm is concerned. It is absolutely critical that Legoland not know about our long-term deal with Gathering Storm. Please keep this in mind.

quote: Arnelos> hello ZargonX> hey Arn! ZargonX> heard you were looking for me Arnelos> indeed ZargonX> sorry, I know I have been scarce as of late Arnelos> it's ok Arnelos> I just need SOMEONE from Legoland Arnelos> because we really need to talk about this long-term stuff ZargonX> yes, indeed Arnelos> the situation is quite simple... Arnelos> We would be willing to be a trade partner and aid those looking toward winning the game... we would PREFER that the one(s) we did that with were looking for a stable playing out of the rest of the game Arnelos> in which RP remains alive and in possession of its home territory ZargonX> of course Arnelos> Obviously, for now, this clearly leaves GoW and ND out of the equation until such point that they might agree to such ZargonX> do you fear GS will try to exert more influence on Bob at the conclusion of the war? ZargonX> Arnelos> my concern is more that I'd like to prevent a major conflict after this one Arnelos> this one has nearly swallowed us already and if not for GS' intervention, it would have Arnelos> GS may attempt to do something along the lines of what you are suggesting, but we figure that they're likely to be more kind to us than most because we do not represent a long-term threat to them ZargonX> well, as we have stated quite plainly before: Lego has no interest in settling Bob ZargonX> so, in that aspect, we are more than willing to discuss situations that would lead to stability Arnelos> our agreement with GS covers mostly that GS does not want to see Neu Demogyptica win the game (neither do we) and while we're paying them some territory for their assistance, their main reason for being involved is to prevent an ND victory ZargonX> so what is RP's vision for the post-war world? Arnelos> GS also stated that while we should gift them cities for their own defense, they promised to gift those cities back... so far they've kept their word on that... Arnelos> that said, they'll obviously be keeping a piece of land to the north of us... their main concern is that their home continent is too small to compete Arnelos> Our vision for the long-term is that those who are seeking to win the game by force of arms be put back in their cages (read GoW and ND) and that the game rather be decided by race to culture/diplo/space victory. This would be done primarily through something of a system of collective security Arnelos> In other words, RP would agree to trade and be friendly with Lego as well as GS (as opposed to GS monopolizing our attention, as we believe they want) Arnelos> Additionally, if any power were to attack another with intent to swallow it whole and gain a further advantage over the rest of the world, we could help others to prevent this ZargonX> so a sort of tri-balance of world power Arnelos> something like that ZargonX> each keeping the other in check Arnelos> and allow the best builders to win the game ZargonX> it is an optimal vision Arnelos> yes... it would be difficult Arnelos> thankfully, we have seperate continents, this makes it easier Arnelos> especially when RR's hit the scene Arnelos> Legoland would obviously keep its own enormous continent, which you could EASILY defend through RR's Arnelos> your main concern, we understand would be whether any power gained too much power on Bob Arnelos> which is a multi-power continent ZargonX> well, obviously the idea of a 1-power Bob would be quite worrisome Arnelos> indeed ZargonX> or even a 2-power, with one holding the majority ZargonX> I would imagine that would worry GS as well Arnelos> this is why GS is in this war Arnelos> of course, GS also desires to win the game... they believe that cannot be done with their home continent alone... so they desire a piece of Bob Arnelos> We have succeeded thusfar in suggesting that it should be a small piece Arnelos> We figure that the optimal situation is one in which all remaining world powers are either committed to long-term stability or are too weak to damage it ZargonX> and you do not worry that they would try to conquer you if they had the military advantage after this war? Arnelos> actually, no.... we honestly believe that GS takes their "honor code" so completely seriously that they are unlikely to do, both because it is not in their nature and, more importantly, because they'd never live it down ZargonX> ZargonX> Guess that's a good a reason as any ZargonX> well, the situation you describe is one that I think the people of Lego would be agreeable to Arnelos> We have also been willing to discuss the matter with Vox Controli of them receiving a piece of Bob as well ZargonX> however, getting to the point at which it can be implemented is the tough part Arnelos> Vox is small and weak... not a threat and unlikely to become one. Even if GoW or ND (one of them) were to get wiped out, their presence could potentially be replaced in part by Vox... dividing the land and preventing anyone from getting too much ZargonX> ahh... a 2-continent Vox... their dream come true Arnelos> (chuckle) ZargonX> well, as I said, it does sound an optimal solution ZargonX> in the meantime, I am more than happy to take your ideas to my people Arnelos> now, for such a vision to be realized... first, RP needs to survive the immediate conflict and the ND/GoW alliance must be re-contained to prevent both their victory AND to prevent them from making the rest of the game a long warfest Arnelos> the larger problem is obviously going to be whether ND and/or GoW is willing to live long-term under such circumstances Arnelos> this is the main reason we'd want Vox to enter the continent... to take the place of one of them if such an arrangement cannot be worked out Arnelos> because we'd rather that GS didn't get too much of the land ZargonX> yes, I don't know if either of them would be too happy watching others build their way to vicotry around them Arnelos> this is the problem Arnelos> GoW, for one, is committed to fighting wars Arnelos> they will be a perpetual security risk Arnelos> so we're probably going to need Vox Arnelos> GS can have *some* of Bob, but we'd prefer not much of it Arnelos> as for us... our state is so incredibly weakened by this war that even if we gain territory back and have time to settle/re-settle it, we are like Vox... too far behind in the building game to conceivably WIN a builder victory ZargonX> I think we've all been amazed by what GS can do with only a little space... ZargonX> so I think even a small chunk would be sufficient for them Arnelos> indeed Arnelos> any chunk they claim is likely to be corrupt as hell unless they get a GL to build their FP on it, anyways ZargonX> so, I guess the real question is: do you truly feel the war will end in your and GS' favor? Arnelos> the liklihood of us at least SURVIVING this initial war has been increasing ZargonX> you believe it will end with some sort of detante? Arnelos> it's possible Arnelos> the problem is going to be GoW and ND's willingness to do that Arnelos> it's also going to be GS' desire for at least a piece of land Arnelos> We think it can be done if we can win, just enough, that we can't defeat ND and GoW, they can't defeat us, and the piece of land (mostly empty) to the very east can be claimed by GS Arnelos> problem then is that the situation is not long-term tenable... the war will restart as soon as either side has an advantage again ZargonX> a stalemate, as it were Arnelos> something like that Arnelos> at the very least, we get our land back Arnelos> and GoW and ND are re-contained ZargonX> and negotiations can begin Arnelos> that's a hope... but I'm not counting on it Arnelos> afterall... GoW is going to be a PERPETUAL nuisance Arnelos> especially if they feel caged and unable to win Arnelos> the liklihood that they'll just go berserk for the lack of better options will go up ZargonX> quite probably Arnelos> which means they may need to be wiped out, in such a situation... we would prefer for Vox to get most of their land Arnelos> in order to maintain global balance Arnelos> now... ZargonX> and you've spoken to Vox of this already? Arnelos> not on the latest Arnelos> Beta and I *have* spoken before about the possibility, but some time ago Arnelos> besides... Beta is unlikely to talk seriously about it until our victory over GoW seems more likely ZargonX> true Arnelos> though we have approached the subject Arnelos> My main concern is whether Legoland can first live with such an arrangement... so that we prevent a conflict with you. Arnelos> and whether, if it looks like we might be headed for such a thing (which is our goal), we might, at the very least, be able to expect that you will not work against it ZargonX> as I said, the situation you've described would seem amenable to me My main goal is to seek something that I believe is tenable for ALL remaining world powers. Anything short of that will mean another war. ZargonX> we are builders, after all Arnelos> Legoland's interest seems to be primarily preventing a complete GS victory or a complete ND/GoW victory... as either might then turn on Legoland (and likely would) ZargonX> both are concerns, of course ZargonX> it would be foolish not to worry about such things Arnelos> this is why we believe Bob divided between RP, Vox, and a small piece to GS (along with perhaps even ND and/or GoW) would be likable to Legoland Arnelos> it sure beats the alternatives ZargonX> it would definately have benefits Arnelos> the problem is that while I think both RP and GS are open to this, it is currently unlikely that ND or GoW is Arnelos> they're still playing for keeps... ZargonX> for the moment, I can take these thoughts to my countrymen for debate Arnelos> that would be good ZargonX> if such a goal is agreed on, we can work towards it Arnelos> that would be good ZargonX> in whatever way is possible ZargonX> We should meet again in the near future after I've spoken with the others ZargonX> and once the war has a more definitive course in sight Arnelos> yes Arnelos> the war is currently very much in flux Arnelos> we are gaining ground, but it is still an uncertain thing ZargonX> always is, isn't it ZargonX> ? Arnelos> that's how war works ZargonX> we'll just have to make the ISDG war a little more definitive Arnelos> ideally, yes ZargonX> excellent Arnelos> alright, I think we're done for now ZargonX> sounds good ZargonX> I'll post our discussion in my forum, if that's fine with you... Arnelos> please Arnelos> go for it ZargonX> good good ZargonX> in that case, until next time!

	02-10-2003 22:47									#454
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Hehe Arn ... you are a diplo-playing demon.
I´d hate to have an alliance with you on ANY game.

	02-10-2003 23:00									#455
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By the way, I want to ask the person in charge of contact with GS, whoever is it, to PLEASE get us screenshots from the CURRENT turn. Me and BigFree are hunting in the dark, so to say. If we really want to have sausages and green tea for dinner, we need screenies from GS, and possibly from a spy mission in Nd and GoW´s embassy (we could contact Vox about it).

	03-10-2003 07:44									#456
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Winter By the way, I want to ask the person in charge of contact with GS, whoever is it, to PLEASE get us screenshots from the CURRENT turn. Me and BigFree are hunting in the dark, so to say. If we really want to have sausages and green tea for dinner, we need screenies from GS, and possibly from a spy mission in Nd and GoW´s embassy (we could contact Vox about it).

Agreed. Screenshots should be shared each turn. In fact, it might be advisable to send screenshots to the ally with each turn at the same time you send the save file.

If anyone sees anyone from GS in chat, feel free to approach them with this. I'll go ahead do so myself, but the sooner we get this agreed to, the better.

	01-11-2003 11:41									#457
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Not good news, but I will forward this message to Shiber.

quote: I'm afraid I've not followed the PTWDG for some time. If Theseus is now in charge, you can expect things to be a little slow diplomatically, as he has very little time for civ during the week. Last I checked in Shiber was the most active member of Gathering Storm. Hope this helps. Dominae quote: BigFree wrote on 31-10-2003 15:04: Hey Dom I sent Theseus two PM's regarding the last turn for the PTWDG. He has not replied to either. I let him know about the things that OPD and I had discussed while playing RP's turn. I asked Theseus to gift back Toledo and NM the same turn after accepting them. Instead, we were offered two old Vox cities "unaccepted." What is going on over there? I have also asked for screen shots so that we can coordinate better and those have never arrived, not for one turn, and I have asked many times. Who is in charge over there now? BigFree

	03-11-2003 15:30									#458
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Arnelos, great work! I fully agree with Nuc.

Aidun

PS: Makes the C3C game at MZO even more interesting: competing on the diplomatic level with you.

	03-11-2003 18:20									#459
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Sorry for reporting so late, but I didn't notice it because every time I sought access to these forums, I had to login to Poly again sos that I didn't see the main page, and no pop-up appeared. Maybe it is still of any use for those of you who do the governing tasks.

quote: Arnelos is seemingly out of commission, and BigFree's PM box is full. ON our side, GS participation is waaay down, and I am hard-pressed during the work week. Oh well, life goes on... We have the save, so watch for an update. Theseus / Richard

My reply:

quote: Theseus, Thank you for your message, I transferred it but today to Arnelos and BigFree because I was hardly on 'Poly during the weekend and did not notice it until now (got no pop up as is usual). I hope the delay is not critical. In case messages of BigFree and Arnelos did not reach you, I hereby inform you that we are in great need of information from your team about its tactics. Please send us some screenshots od the current turn and tell us what you are up to, so we can anticipate on it and we can mutually assist each other. Could we also exchange screenshots als on a more regular basis, such as every turn? We got info that our alliance is going to face a big attack from ND and GoW and only by closely cooperating we can drive them back from where they have come. Aidun

Diomingo Cian, seemingly instant diplomat to GS

	07-11-2003 23:00									#460
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from Arrian

quote: Togas, In case you haven't heard already, we've got a major problem. As feared, Legoland has positioned forces on Bob with the express purpose of defending GoW/ND's homelands against any GS attack. They sent notes to that effect with the save, in response to our recent landing near Yellowknife. In other words, we've been screwed. For whatever reason, Legoland has decided that they want ND & GoW to win this war. I do not believe they are bluffing. Attacking them would most likely trigger their GA, and they know we can't really do anything to them directly. Therefore, our situation has grown extremely grim. GS isn't exactly weak, but we cannot fight ND, GoW AND Lego's expeditionary force. Plus, as you may have noticed, we haven't really been at our best lately. Our active membership has dwindled, and our generals (Theseus and I) have been making mistakes. Now our only way of turning the tide has been Blocked (pun intended). I think the best we can do at this point is maintain the status quo, but even that I'm unsure about. If we cannot damage GoW's homeland, they can just keep doing Horse -> Rider upgrades with Leos, which goes a long way toward cancelling our production advantage. I think we need to consider an exit strategy for this war, Togas. I know that we promised to protect RP, and I can honestly say we thought we could do it. I wish we could rebuild Spain. I really wanted to. But I no longer think that's a viable option. That leaves North Stormia. Do you think that RP would be willing, for the sake of its survival and the denial of its current holdings to our enemies, to relocate? This is not an official request. I'm just talking out loud here. But things are coming to a head in a hurry. I'd appreciate your thoughts. -Arrian

	07-11-2003 23:05									#461
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quote: Arrian, Understood. Evacuating is our absolute last option. Before we go there, we should try to work out a peace deal with ND/GoW that would allow us to keep our current holdings. My main concern is the rumor that there is no salt peter on Stormia. We also have rare luxuries in Spain that both of our nation need to keep. But I have to be honest, interest on our team has dwindled as well. We're not far from just saying "screw it all" and fighting ND/GoW until they destroy us ... but ultimately I don't think that would help GS very much. If we can keep some land/luxuries/resources, it'll help both of our teams more in the long run. --Togas

	07-11-2003 23:23									#462
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quote: I understand, Togas. If we can negotiate a settlement that leaves RP some Bobian luxury cities, great. But I have to admit I very much doubt ND & GoW will accept any such deal. They have the leverage. That was something we had hoped to change with an invasion... and now that's blown up in our faces. The Saltpeter thing worries us too, of course. But the fact is that if we *do* withdraw to Stormia, saltpeter probably isn't a big issue. We'd be hoping to prolong the game past the era of Cav & Muskets. I guess the next step is to ask some of our guys to start talks with GoW about a possible peace deal? Or do you think we should approach ND? Or both at the same time? -Arrian

	07-11-2003 23:26									#463
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quote: Arrian, It's a pretty major decision. I'm going to ask my team for their thoughts on it before we take any drastic action. Feel free to start with ND. Despite our animosity with GoW, we have received a few truce offers from them in the past, and we still have some strong out-of-game relationships with them that might prove useful in helping for a smooth end of the war. But please let us know what GS's final position on the war is. If you guys decide to that it's unwinable we will respect that and do what we can to move to the next phase. --Togas

	08-11-2003 00:08									#464
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quote: Will do. I personally think our position is untenable, but I agree our teams' other members need to consider the question and decide what to do. GS is in the process of doing that, but since that discussion inevitably included a "what if RP moves to Stormia" scenario, I thought it was high time we asked for your thoughts. Prior to this, that option was widely viewed as an unlikely option... just something to kick around in case things really went badly. Well, in my opinion, things just did. I'm looking ahead a bit, though. We can hold out a while yet. It's possible we could hold out for a long time, but I don't think that status quo will do. Eventually, we will fall too far behind in tech. Keep us informed of any discussions you may have with GoW, and I'll ask we do the same w/regard to talks with ND. -Arrian p.s. **** Lego. **** them gently with a chainsaw.

	08-11-2003 04:10									#465
	Remove this text

FROM CORT HAUS OF GS (copying from Legoland):

(I warned GS this was coming based upon the intelligence we got from Legoland earlier... they intend to defend the GoW homeland, the bastards)

quote: Hi Arnelos, We recieved this from Lego today : Dear Gathered Storms, Seems there is a breakthrough decision lying ahead both of us and you in the game. We feel we should make it clear where we stand and what our intentions are with respect to the current situation. Considering all the fuss and ill will about past public "manifests", we would like to let you know in private only. We are sending you our "message" in two versions. Both basically mean the very same, but side by side, they probably better fit the purpose of conveying a "serious message" in a "game played for fun". First, the version "with a British foreign office slant" (as redstar1, its author, put it): quote: Our dearest chums of Gathering Storm, After having a chat with some of the chaps across the sea, its been pointed out that you have a jolly large force somewhere near Yellowknife. Far be it for us to interfere but we have to say that we aren't quite tip-top with the idea of you having a picnic so close to GoW's back yard. In fact, we are afraid to say that its really just not on old boy. We do believe that we still have a common interest as well as a lucrative trade deal. Were you to start a bit of a scrap up north then we would really have to rethink. I'm sure you understand we can't really do deals with anyone we don't think is sound. In short, we'd like you to have a think about the old gameplan. If you want a cup of tea and a chat just let us know. Yours Imperiously, Lego And the more "formal" version that would, sent alone, probably sound harsher than we'd intend it to sound. quote: Honourable Nation of Gathering Storm, It has been brought to our attention that a strong force of your War Chicken in full arms just recently landed on the Eastern coast of Bob, roughly South of Yellowknife. Although we can naturally not be sure about the plans and intentions of your generals, we feel the only reason for such a force to land there would be an attack at the "homeland" cities of GoW and ND. We are sorry to inform you that if such an attack was to happen or become imminent, we would consider it an act threatening Legoland's long-term interests, and as such would cause our nations to enter the state of war, with the inevitable consequences for our current trade deals, with no further warning. Respectfully, The Senate of Legoland We would like to stress that our position at the moment is driven by our long-term goals and plans, not by any grudges we'd hold against your team. Under different circumstances, we might find ourselves on your side of the barricade. Legoland

	08-11-2003 06:12									#466
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I wish the diplo channels would allow me to send a humble message to Legoland:
"Dear Lego fuc*kfaces,
you guys can burn inside you f*ucking libraries for all that I care, we´ll dig your graves in that hole of f*uckers that GoW is.
With love, Nuke"
And to Vondrack
"Dear Vonddie,
Go sh*it in your hat.
Kindest regards, Nuke"

	09-11-2003 04:31									#467
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I'll try to have one more talk to them, this is really weird. I was cordial towards Lego after all failed efforts and empty promisses, but this is amazing. I'm not the man to declare war on them, not even at this stage, because it will lead to our downfall.
I'll do my best for one more talk in which they have to assure me that they take back what they did and in which I will warn them to not so openly show their alliance to GoW and ND.
I want a blank cheque of Legoland that they will not harm any troops of our alliance and anything less is not enough. I want them to allow us or GS to declare war if we think such an action is needed to achieve our goal of attacking GoW's or ND's ownings. With anything less I will not be satisfied.

Diomingo Cian
"How sad that I have to see these things happen at my old age."

	09-11-2003 04:41									#468
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I had a chat with NYE tonight this is the result. Please don't forget to discuss declaring wart with GS officials before doing it.

quote: [Aidun> NYE are you there? * Logging nye to 'logs\nye.GRNet.log' [nye> hi [Aidun> Hi how are you? [nye> good. and you? [Aidun> fine, thank you. [nye> what is up? [Aidun> The reason I started this chat with you is the strange message you have had form Lego [Aidun> What is the exact situation? [nye> ahh. yes. are you lego or rp? i think rp, but am not sure [Aidun> Are your forces hindered or something? [Aidun> RP [nye> give me a moment to check the save [nye> i can't see much. but we must have hit a soft spot [nye> lego took a big step dropping the crap of where they stand [Aidun> You know about the message Lego sent you, Togas posted it in our diplo threat [nye> yes. i read it. [nye> i am not very active right now though. read about 0. i am leaving it to others. [Aidun> Is it for you impossible to attack GoW? That's what I need in case I have a chat with Lego [Aidun> * What I need to know [nye> i think it is very possible for us to attack gow. that's what the troops are there for [nye> them and/or nd [nye> perhaps not this next turn though. landed in an isolated area [Aidun> Yes, but are you hindered by Lego's troops right now? That is, what I would have done if I would have been in Lego's place right now if I would want to protect GoW's homeland [nye> no. can't see any [Aidun> right, in case I meet Legoland I'll demand that they retreat and otherwise I guess that Spain will declare war. its 6 to one in favor of war right now, whatever the result of it might be. That's our war weariness: we don't care anymore, but we will die by the sword if we have to die. [nye> that would be a big mistake [nye> don't declare war [Aidun> I'll bring this message over [nye> that would give lego a happy bonus that we could never counteract [Aidun> we wouldn't do it without consulting you [nye> ok. cool. that should be done anyway, since as i said, i am not very active and hold no official position [Aidun> Perhaps you could bring the message of me to Theseus and/or Arrian? [nye> i will post this in the rp diplo log [nye> what is your actual message for gs? [Aidun> Of the thoughts inside the RP team [Aidun> of the vote for war that is with 6 in favor and with one still against [Aidun> and of this ultimatum [Aidun> : [nye> ahh. ok. that you guys are willing to go to the wall. i understand. appreciated. [Aidun> I'll try to have one more talk to them, this is really weird. I was cordial towards Lego after all failed efforts and empty promisses, but this is amazing. I'm not the man to declare war on them, not even at this stage, because it will lead to our downfall. [Aidun> I'll do my best for one more talk in which they have to assure me that they take back what they did and in which I will warn them to not so openly show their alliance to GoW and ND. [Aidun> I want a blank cheque of Legoland that they will not harm any troops of our alliance and anything less is not enough. I want them to allow us or GS to declare war if we think such an action is needed to achieve our goal of attacking GoW's or ND's ownings. With anything less I will not be satisfied. [Aidun> go to the wall? [nye> seal you doom. [nye> btw, our dows would be very counter productive, as i said [nye> it would increase happiness for them, not us [nye> it is best if they dow if that cannot be avoided [Aidun> I know that, Togas knows it too I suppose [nye> so, why do something that will just help them? [Aidun> GS should but know of this, that's how I think about it [Aidun> I don't think it will happen without consulting you as I said [Aidun> therefore it is only ment as information [nye> ok [nye> i'll go now and post this [Aidun> And I will try to get Lego out of this or side with us as I said in the message about the ultimatum (above pieces of text)

Diomingo Cian

	09-11-2003 05:02									#469
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This is a PM I sent To Sharpe, Kloreep and Nimitz:

quote: Shape, I will keep the message short here, I'm very dissappointed in Legoland because of the last events, still would but like to have a chat with you. I am the last Spaniard that is willing to talk to you right now, so do not take this message too lightly. I will try to be online at sunday evening (european time/GMT+1) which is in the afternoon/evening in America. I will but make a trip to Belgium that day and I don't know when I will be back. Hope to see you at sunday evening Aidun

hope to be there then.

Aidun

	09-11-2003 06:02									#470
	Put an end to popups!

I think that if GS wants to jump out of the boat it is ok.
But they cannot expect us to accept peace with our enemies just to benenfit GS. I´d like to help them too, and as much as possible, but I don´t want peace with ND nor GoW AT ANY CIRCUNSTANCE. I hold no power in the team but the power of any member, but I say that if we are jumping out of this may it be in a burst of flames, taking down whatever we can with us in a nice trip to a warmer place (not florida nor cuba, not even brazil, I´m talking REAL in-game hell here).

	09-11-2003 06:28									#471
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Why the war declaration would give Lego a happiness bonus? I don't understand. War weariness don't work that way that I know.

Also, if it's true that nye is not active at GS don't take what he say very seriously.

	09-11-2003 08:58									#472
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Please do not condemn me for doing this, but I sent the following PM to Aggie and hope to informally discuss this with him soon.

I will start up a new thread to deal with this issue.

quote: Aggie, I'm sure you know about the situation with GS and Legoland. We've heard quite a bit about it. There is a chance that this will cause Gathering Storm to leave the war. I'm not sure how big of a chance, but it has left us debating within our forum what we should do if they decide to end the war. As you know, most of my team has a very real, and very sincere hatred for GoW. I, myself, have to swallow such feelings to try to do what is best for my nation and I know that writing this message will earn me a bit of ire, but I do believe that you are, by far, the most reasonable and goodnatured leader that GoW has had. I therefore hope that something good may come of all this. If GS leaves the war, we have two options: 1) Peace 2) Continued and eternal war and a state of WW from whatever isolated city GS gifts us if we are ever wiped out on Bob. I don't know what you and ND had in mind when you started the war, but I'm sure that the current situation wasn't in the cards. It's not ideal. I'm not sure how you guys plan to split the land they've taken, but I will ask this question: IF we agreed to a peace treaty and a ceasefire, would you agree to give us a section of land on the continent to live in peace? We would be content going back to our old role as merchants and traders -- we have never been warriors or conquerers, but I do believe we have fought well and admirably against your overwelming forces, and I hope that there is some respect for the great pride and spirit we have shown. Spain has earned a right to live. We have done far better than Vox in their war, and we deserve to remain in this game. We would be willing to agree to some terms to ensure your safety, but we would not be willing to become the slaves of GoW or ND. We also are not willing under any circumstances to leave Bob. We already have GS's promise to gift us cities if we fall, so survival is not really an issue. We will survive regardless of peace or war. If you would like to talk, you know where to find me. --Togas

	09-11-2003 09:09									#473
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No offense taken.

Let's see where this leads... I'm interested to see how Glory of War reacts to this, at the very least... may give us some clues as to what is going on...

Ultimately, our goal should be to turn Legoland and Glory of War against one another. I don't care which one we have to side with to pull it off, it just needs to be done.

	09-11-2003 09:27									#474
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quote: Aggiemowa> hi togas, i haven't had a chance to talk to my team yet(usually MZ or pnazer is on), but my gut instinct is it is possible that we could have a deal where you kept the areas south of the pamploma mountains. that has iron and 3 luxs. This of course depends on ND allowing the war to end with you on bob. Togas> that may be a very realistic and fair option. Aggiemowa> to be honest that area would be corrupt beyond compare for either us or Nd so it makes sense Togas> it will be difficult for me to convince my people to leave Pamplona. Togas> but I'll see what I can do. See if you can get ND to agree to something of the sort. Aggiemowa> i understand. I'll email Nd and see what they think. I'll also present this idea to my team. Currently we ahve about 6 active members to i hope we can agree

	09-11-2003 13:37									#475
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Hell NO, we won't GO!
Hell NO, we won't GO!
Hell NO, we won't GO!

I will not be a part of giving up Pamplona. I will not be a part of turning away from what GS wants us to do for now. I'm sure GS is looking at the situation and realizes that some drastic measures might need to be taken or they lose the chance to win this game. GS may decide that continueing the war against GoW, even with the threat of Lego's intervention is something they can't back away from because it ensures a Lego victory.

For GS to win, they need a part of Bob and RP needs and even larger part, including Pamplona. If we give in now, we give up the game. If we decalre peace now, we ruin all chances for WW to hit ND and GoW.

I happen to agree with nye we he said that we should decalre war on Lego just yet, due to the happiness bonus they will get. I don't minding Togas talking about peace with GoW/ND, but to actually give it to them is another thing....

Lets talk more with GS about this. If, however, GS reacts apatheticly to this, then the game is already over.

	09-11-2003 16:43									#476
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I'd rather die standing than leave Pamplona. If we are going to fall let's take as many of them with us as we can.

I'm even willing to take the GF's approach of mountins a settler in a galley and stay in perpetual war state with all of them...

	09-11-2003 16:48									#477
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Togas, I'm not sure I would agree with your last post to Aggie.

I still think the best for us and for GS is to continue the war, ND's and GoW's GAs are over now, GS have many troops in the Pamplona area and I think we have chances to win some important battles RIGHT NOW, additionally with declaring war to these Lego traitors.

The hopeless way you are triying to open now with Aggie is simply an humiliating way to continue the game for us. I prefer to die with dignity instead to continue taking part in this game as a very minor civ.

	09-11-2003 16:56									#478
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix The hopeless way you are triying to open now with Aggie is simply an humiliating way to continue the game for us. I prefer to die with dignity instead to continue taking part in this game as a very minor civ.

Here! here!

If ND/GoW/Lego were pretty confident in their chances they wouldn't be talking of peace. They would attack GS and end with them.

How many troops have they lost attacking Pamplona? They have lost an incredible great quantity of them! If we go to peace they will rebuild. I hope GS are not so dumb to give them some room for breathing.

	09-11-2003 18:54									#479
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I think we should continue the negotiations just see how GoW reacts, if nothing else.

I agree with Togas that what is holding the opposing alliance together is the belief that they need to defeat GS and RP to win. Togas may not be entirely wrong to suspect that giving them some semblance of that "defeat" might be enough to get them looking toward matters more important than us: each other.

I happen to agree with BigFree (as I stated in my own post) that we should consult GS and talk about our joint chances of winning the war before we did anything like this, but it's certainly an option. In essense, we'd be agreeing to a Versailles Treaty that while it seems to be a treaty to end "The War to End All Wars", is in reality merely the seed for the next world war. The feint hope is that Glory of War is so darn warlike and has so many riders milling about because they spent their entire GA building them that they won't want those riders to just sit around collecting dust... they'll pick a new target - ND or Lego. If so, that provides more favorable conditions under which we can start the second world war.

I agree with Togas that this is a plausible thing to do if the result of our consultation with Gathering Storm is that we likely will not WIN this war.

That said, if we can still win this war, we can certainly try to win it without resorting to something like Togas has floated.

As for Togas' message to Aggie, please keep in mind that how Togas is presenting things to GoW does not necessarily reflect what he really thinks

	09-11-2003 21:34									#480
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I think the mere mention of peace will put Nd/GoW´s frontier on full war alert. Anyway, I don´t want to abandon Pamplona at any costs. That is the heart of Spain, and I´d rather have it cut than tainted by dratted chinese.