10-11-2003 00:54									#481
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Aidun asked me to post this log

quote: -Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Nimitz -Aidun- -Nimitz- hey] -Aidun- -Aidun- Are you a lurker in Lego, or an active member? -Aidun- -Nimitz- active I'm running for FAM again -Aidun- -Nimitz- see this -Aidun- -Nimitz- Legoland in anarchy, actual elections!!!(Second attempt) -Aidun- -Nimitz- you there -Aidun- * Sharpe has joined #Tabemono -Aidun- * ChanServ sets mode: +o Sharpe -Aidun- -Sharpe- Hi! -Aidun- * Nimitz sets mode: +i -Aidun- -Nimitz- we can talk he Aidun -Aidun- -Nimitz- here -Aidun- -Aidun- Please answer my question in the other window -Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Sharpe -Aidun- -Sharpe- Hi Aidun * Aidun has quit IRC (Excess Flood) * Aidun has joined #MilOps -Aidun- -Aidun- problem with the server -Aidun- -Sharpe- yeah flood -Aidun- -Aidun- Hi Kloreep -Aidun- -Sharpe- err... no Kloreep... -Aidun- -Sharpe- -Aidun- * Nimitz sets mode: +i -Aidun- -Nimitz- -Nimitz- I tried my best to keep us together but you kept making unreasonable demand -Aidun- -Nimitz- [13:06] -Sharpe- Aidun's gone... -Aidun- -Aidun- wtf, I did see his name somewhere just now -Aidun- -Aidun- strange -Aidun- -Nimitz- get to you faster work together on tech before we met -Aidun- -Sharpe- err he is in the ISDG topic in their chatroom -Aidun- -Nimitz- and when I couldn't give it you got mad -Aidun- -Nimitz- wow -Aidun- -Aidun- Nimitz, please explain, did our team or I made unreasonable demand and got mad? -Aidun- -Aidun- I have to let you know this: unfortunately, I can't stay long here, my mother will be back in a few minutes and then I have to be offline. -Aidun- -Nimitz- ok well bye -Aidun- -Aidun- no, still a few minutes -Aidun- -Nimitz- and the main demand was the our WM -Aidun- -Sharpe- and the "RP discount" on trade techs -Aidun- -Aidun- that was a big mistake indeed -Aidun- 4please read it and bring the message over as I won't be able to do it/ -Aidun- -Nimitz- well that could of been worked out if -Aidun- -Aidun- Yes, it may be agressive, but it is one example of an unfulfilled promise -Aidun- -Nimitz- you and been freindly -Aidun- -Sharpe- but that bitterness has to be water under the bridge -Aidun- -Sharpe- Oh I don't know, Togas is at it again with his diplomatic agressiveness in PTWDG2 - guy doesn't learn it appears -Aidun- -Nimitz- but when we were not able to do things you wanted you got angry and demanding -Aidun- -Aidun- well bitterness is in every man's heart confronted with war, you can't blame me on that -Aidun- -Nimitz- not at the war -Aidun- -Sharpe- that bitterness was well before the war -Aidun- -Nimitz- just before we were able to get to bob -Aidun- -Sharpe- or just after actually... -Aidun- -Nimitz- the fact we got all those tech from GoW seemed to be the final straw -Aidun- -Sharpe- perhaps RP doesn't realize how furious Lego was with RP , but I don't think that repeating that situation will help -Aidun- -Aidun- times of which I can alas say little, it was somewhat befor e I became active in RP -Aidun- -Aidun- It won't help indeed -Aidun- -Aidun- wehave to face the current situation. -Aidun- -Nimitz- if you could get GS to leave bob completly and you would make concetions you could maybe survive -Aidun- -Nimitz- if you could get GS to leave bob completly and you would make concetions you could maybe survive -Aidun- -Nimitz- they might give you peace for that -Aidun- -Aidun- I say this to you: I could get the knights of GS away, but I can't do that with just the promise a possibility of survival only, what concrete promisses can you make? -Aidun- -Nimitz- if not the war would continue of course -Aidun- -Nimitz- nothing but if you could get the knights to stand down I think we could talk -Aidun- -Nimitz- of course GoW would have to promise to not attack them -Aidun- -Sharpe- I think Lego could convince a flag of truce to allow GS to withdraw their forces without fear of attack from GoW or ND -Aidun- -Nimitz- I think a truce for as long as we talk -Aidun- -Nimitz- the knights would have to not attack though -Aidun- -Aidun- But that gives GoW the ability to get forces to the area and build up forces -Aidun- -Aidun- and ND too -Aidun- -Sharpe- build up forces to attack RP? or GS? -Aidun- -Nimitz- welll we can talk be for there turn -Aidun- -Nimitz- well I gtg go -Aidun- -Aidun- ok -Aidun- -Aidun- thatnks for the chat Nimitz -Aidun- -Nimitz- cya later -Aidun- -Sharpe- Bye! -Aidun- -Aidun- cya -Aidun- -Nimitz- relay this to the team Sharpe -Aidun- -Sharpe- k -Aidun- -Nimitz- work to get the talks -Aidun- -Sharpe- yeah -Aidun- * Nimitz is now known as Nimitz|away -Aidun- -Aidun- I can only accept diplomatic talks as long as no others will habe the opportunity to produce or move, as that would disadvantage us. -Aidun- -Sharpe- We can certainly try for that -Aidun- -Sharpe- GoW and ND did offer you guys peace earlier, but you insisted on getting all of your territory back -Aidun- -Sharpe- GoW and ND did offer you guys peace earlier, but you insisted on getting all of your territory back -Aidun- -Sharpe- admittedly I don't know if they really meant it of course -Aidun- -Aidun- I only know of hatred and unofficial treaties or those that were just unjust such as nearly-elimination, RP-citystate. -Aidun- -Sharpe- hmm -Aidun- -Aidun- I only know of hatred and unofficial treaties or those that were just unjust such as nearly-elimination, RP-citystate. -Aidun- -Sharpe- hmm -Aidun- -Aidun- S I am very interested in good intentions from GoW and ND -Aidun- -Sharpe- so would we be -Aidun- -Sharpe- I think that Lego needs to talk to GS -Aidun- -Aidun- you could do that, sooner or later you have. -Aidun- -Sharpe- most of us want to ... except for the ones you know about -Aidun- -Aidun- yes. -Aidun- -Sharpe- we were finally breaking away from this alliance but GS invasion of GoW has muddled things up -Aidun- -Aidun- Then do like I'm doing now too: on your own initiative, if it goes wrong, alas, if not you have a deal -Aidun- -Sharpe- not sure who to talk to on GS now -Aidun- -Sharpe- they have lost a lot of members -Aidun- -Aidun- You know my argument against it. I have to see a real intention for peace on fair terms. Show deeds and we can talk with GS -Aidun- -Sharpe- would you be willing to accept your current city situation (plus the ones from GS) for a while? -Aidun- -Aidun- I need to think about that first and have a meeting with the RP members -Aidun- -Sharpe- you know that eventually GoW and ND will get too aggressive and invade either us or GS -Aidun- -Aidun- I'll be back online tomorrow everning -Aidun- -Aidun- cya then -Aidun- -Sharpe- your area would be perfect for landing on Bob in a railroad era -Aidun- -Sharpe- Bye

	12-11-2003 05:05									#482
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A chat BigFree and I had with OctavianX in MilOps:

Aidun> Hi Octavian and BigFree
Octavian_X> Hello Aidun.
Aidun> Any news about the war=
Aidun> ?
Octavian_X> Lemme check up on the forum...
Aidun> Sharpe and Nimitz had the idea of seeking to contact GS
Octavian_X> Yes, I've just pulled up a chat log from yesterday.
Aidun> Is there something you thing that is interesting for us=
Octavian_X> hmm...
Octavian_X> Sharpe> To be honest Legoland is concerned about your invasion of GoW's territory
Aidun> That´s what he said against me too
Octavian_X> More along the same lines...
Octavian_X> Sharpe> K, to get to the point - Lego has a defensive alliance with GoW - regarding any invasion of their home territory - since neither you nor RP have attacked into their homeland until now - Legoland has remained uninvolved
Aidun> Do you mid if I share that info=
Aidun> with the other RP members=
Octavian_X> I would think it's relavent to the situation.
Octavian_X> mmm, ****...
Octavian_X> Don't tell anyone I told you that.
Octavian_X> Strictly speaking, the chat is supposed to reamin confidential.
Octavian_X> *that
Aidun> promised
Octavian_X> And, in other good news, we're closer to hammering something out with GoW.
Octavian_X> If all works out well, RP's exile to N. Stormia will end soon.
Aidun> CaWe ill be exiled=
Aidun> * we will be exiled?
Octavian_X> GoW is intent on fulfilling it's earlier contract, as you know. It only stipulates the RP be removed from the continent.
Octavian_X> Not destroyed, mind you.
BigFree> We know nothing of theis "contract"
Octavian_X> Perhaps I'm assuming too much, or spiiling things I shouldn't....
BigFree>
BigFree> thats ok
BigFree> GS and RP should share all info
Aidun> Well, then I can inform you that such an agreement is useless, RP will under no condition give up what it has now, rather die than fly
BigFree> We have agreed to a full game alliance with you
Octavian_X> That's about all the information I have.
Aidun> Octavian, I would like to discuss a strategy with you to get lego away from the rest
Aidun> I already told Arnelos of it and he found it interesting, but is, unfortunately, not online
Octavian_X> I'm glad to listen...
Aidun> the idea is as follows:
Aidun> Lego´s biggest fear is that GS will become too powerful and they fear that if GS gets a more permanent base on GS, such shall happen± GS will become too strong.
Aidun> You get that?
Octavian_X> umm, not really...
Octavian_X> for GS to get a permanet base on GS
Octavian_X> ?
Aidun> well, the current ownings of GS on BOB are not very permanent, but if you will get a larger amount of lan on Bob, Lego fears that you´ll get too strong.
Octavian_X> ok, that's understandable. Please continue.
Aidun> That is, or so Sharpe told me, why they formed the defensive alliance with GoW. Sharpe didn´t mention the term defensive alliance, but in fact he meant the samewhen we talked two days ago.
Aidun> Lego sees your attack on GoW as a direct threat, because they expect you will conquer a big amount of land there and thus, in their view, become to powerful.
Octavian_X> There's logical reasoning behind that.
Aidun> Now I had an idea to convince Lego that this war is not going to benefit GS that much. The way to do that is this: We make up a treaty that will be unofficial between us, but official towards to outside world. In this treaty we state that GS will only get the harbor cities they have now and that we will pay for GS´s aid in the war with luxuries instead of land. We also state that the land GoW and ND own will remain largely theirs, but that RP will get a little bit of southern ND territory and that Vox will own other territories in the north.
Aidun> Thus we make Lego think that Bob will remain divided and thus no threat to them, that GS will remain on Estonia and thus become not too powerful.
Aidun> It is likely that Lego will support the alliance that is fighting to realize their long-term ****
Aidun> can´t get on the word
Aidun> You understand this=
Octavian_X> yes, I do.
Octavian_X> I think it's a workable plan, depending on Lego's actions.
Octavian_X> Unless you've got more, I'll post a log.
Aidun> this is it.
Octavian_X> thanks.
Aidun> Perhaps interesting to write down too is that GoW´s plan is juast the opposite.
Aidun> They intend to Get Bob for themselves and ND
Aidun> something that Lego fears enormously
Aidun> though Vondrack fears us more than GoW
Aidun> while Nimitz, Sharpe and the rest fear them more than you
Aidun> this was really all
Aidun> and I have to go offline

	12-11-2003 12:48									#483
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Chat about War with GS

quote: Session Start: Tue Nov 11 00:00:00 2003 Session Ident: #MilOps [02:31] * Quits: Arnelos (~Arnelos@ip68-226-24-123.tc.ph.cox.net) (Quit: ) [04:21] * Disconnected [04:22] * Attempting to rejoin channel #MilOps [04:22] * Rejoined channel #MilOps [04:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree [04:22] * BigFree sets mode: +psnk Right [04:26] * Quits: BigFree|Away (~bigfree1@c-66-229-56-20.we.client2.attbi.com) (Ping timeout) [05:52] * Joins: Arnelos (~Arnelos@ip68-226-24-123.tc.ph.cox.net) [10:54] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away [12:07] * Quits: Arnelos (~Arnelos@ip68-226-24-123.tc.ph.cox.net) (Quit: ) [15:01] * Joins: Octavian_X (octavian@coin-as3-40.coin.org) [15:10] * BigFree|Away is now known as BigFree [15:13] * Joins: Aidun (Aidun@xs195-241-202-243.dial.tiscali.nl) [15:15] Aidun Hi Octavian and BigFree [15:15] Octavian_X Hello Aidun. [15:16] Aidun Any news about the war= [15:16] Aidun ? [15:17] Octavian_X Lemme check up on the forum... [15:19] Aidun Sharpe and Nimitz had the idea of seeking to contact GS [15:22] Octavian_X Yes, I've just pulled up a chat log from yesterday. [15:22] Aidun Is there something you thing that is interesting for us= [15:23] Octavian_X hmm... [15:24] Octavian_X Sharpe To be honest Legoland is concerned about your invasion of GoW's territory [15:24] Aidun That.s what he said against me too [15:25] Octavian_X More along the same lines... [15:25] Octavian_X Sharpe K, to get to the point - Lego has a defensive alliance with GoW - regarding any invasion of their home territory - since neither you nor RP have attacked into their homeland until now - Legoland has remained uninvolved [15:25] Aidun Do you mid if I share that info= [15:25] Aidun with the other RP members= [15:26] Octavian_X I would think it's relavent to the situation. [15:27] Octavian_X mmm, ****... [15:27] Octavian_X Don't tell anyone I told you that. [15:27] Octavian_X Strictly speaking, the chat is supposed to reamin confidential. [15:27] Octavian_X *that [15:28] Aidun promised [15:29] Octavian_X And, in other good news, we're closer to hammering something out with GoW. [15:30] Octavian_X If all works out well, RP's exile to N. Stormia will end soon. [15:30] Aidun CaWe ill be exiled= [15:30] Aidun * we will be exiled? [15:31] Octavian_X GoW is intent on fulfilling it's earlier contract, as you know. It only stipulates the RP be removed from the continent. [15:31] Octavian_X Not destroyed, mind you. [15:32] BigFree We know nothing of theis "contract" [15:32] Octavian_X Perhaps I'm assuming too much, or spiiling things I shouldn't.... [15:32] BigFree [15:32] BigFree thats ok [15:32] BigFree GS and RP should share all info [15:33] Aidun Well, then I can inform you that such an agreement is useless, RP will under no condition give up what it has now, rather die than fly [15:33] BigFree We have agreed to a full game alliance with you [15:35] Octavian_X That's about all the information I have. [15:37] Aidun Octavian, I would like to discuss a strategy with you to get lego away from the rest [15:38] Aidun I already told Arnelos of it and he found it interesting, but is, unfortunately, not online [15:39] Octavian_X I'm glad to listen... [15:39] Aidun the idea is as follows: [15:41] Aidun Lego.s biggest fear is that GS will become too powerful and they fear that if GS gets a more permanent base on GS, such shall happen. GS will become too strong. [15:41] Aidun You get that? [15:42] Octavian_X umm, not really... [15:42] Octavian_X for GS to get a permanet base on GS [15:42] Octavian_X ? [15:44] Aidun well, the current ownings of GS on BOB are not very permanent, but if you will get a larger amount of lan on Bob, Lego fears that you.ll get too strong. [15:44] Octavian_X ok, that's understandable. Please continue. [15:45] Aidun That is, or so Sharpe told me, why they formed the defensive alliance with GoW. Sharpe didn.t mention the term defensive alliance, but in fact he meant the samewhen we talked two days ago. [15:47] Aidun Lego sees your attack on GoW as a direct threat, because they expect you will conquer a big amount of land there and thus, in their view, become to powerful. [15:48] Octavian_X There's logical reasoning behind that. [15:51] Aidun Now I had an idea to convince Lego that this war is not going to benefit GS that much. The way to do that is this: We make up a treaty that will be unofficial between us, but official towards to outside world. In this treaty we state that GS will only get the harbor cities they have now and that we will pay for GS.s aid in the war with luxuries instead of land. We also state that the land GoW and ND own will remain largely theirs, but that RP [15:52] Aidun Thus we make Lego think that Bob will remain divided and thus no threat to them, that GS will remain on Estonia and thus become not too powerful. [15:54] Aidun It is likely that Lego will support the alliance that is fighting to realize their long-term **** [15:54] Aidun can.t get on the word [15:54] Aidun You understand this= [15:55] Octavian_X yes, I do. [15:55] Octavian_X I think it's a workable plan, depending on Lego's actions. [15:55] Octavian_X Unless you've got more, I'll post a log. [15:56] Aidun this is it. [15:58] Octavian_X thanks. [15:58] Aidun Perhaps interesting to write down too is that GoW.s plan is juast the opposite. [15:58] Aidun They intend to Get Bob for themselves and ND [15:58] Aidun something that Lego fears enormously [15:59] Aidun though Vondrack fears us more than GoW [15:59] Aidun while Nimitz, Sharpe and the rest fear them more than you [15:59] Aidun this was really all [16:00] Aidun and I have to go offline [16:04] Aidun cya tomorrow. [16:05] * Parts: Aidun (Aidun@xs195-241-202-243.dial.tiscali.nl) [16:40] * Quits: Octavian_X (octavian@coin-as3-40.coin.org) (Quit: Who gives a damn about why I left? I mean, really?) [21:12] * Joins: Arnelos (~Arnelos@ip68-226-24-123.tc.ph.cox.net) [22:21] * Joins: Octavian_X (octavian@coin-as3-08.coin.org) [22:49] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_reading [23:00] * Quits: Octavian_X (octavian@coin-as3-08.coin.org) (Quit: insert random funny comment here) [23:04] * Arnelos_reading is now known as Arnelos [23:41] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away

	14-11-2003 07:42									#484
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quote: To our dearest friends, the favoured jewels of God's Earth, blessed and pious children of venerable and wise Calixtus. There's a consensus here among your loyal and noble allies in GS that the status quo and continuation of this war is not the way to go if we are to avoid eventual defeat. There is also a very strong desire and commitment to keep your great nation in this mortal coil so that they might enjoy it to its conclusion as a friend and ally of the Gathering Storm nation. If your holy and beloved Spain cannot be held from the combined might of the Infidel, we are even prepared to offer you dwelling on our own humble soil under our protection. However much your brave and fearless Knights of the Cross would like to fight GoW until the end of all days, or until they return Spain to its people, this approach may not be able to be reconciled with our abillity to offer protection. In short, we do not wish to forever continue a fight which will cost us the Holy Grail we all seek. Unfortunately we yet see no glimmer of light within the corrupt darkness of Lego, and fear that the proposed 'fake treaty' will do little to affect the balance of forces and alliances in the world except to further damage what's left of Gathering Storm's unfairly maligned reputation. So, it is not inconceivable that there is some set of circumstances whereby our envoys could make peace with the Riders of the Night in a deal which ultimately would see the blessed Children of his Holiness survive and living on in Spain as we all wish. However, a precondition of such an arrangement would require both GoW and RP to drop their historical grudges against each other and continue to live in peace. If your bold Knights will never make peace with GoW then we have a problem. Many GS members distrust GoW, but have no wish to destroy ourselves fighting them indefinitely - just to let ND and Lego decide amongst themselves who seizes the Holy Grail at the end of time. We cannot protect you from GoW if you are still intent on harming them after a hypothetical peace. The war has not gone well, though we are pleased and honoured that your brave nation has survived, and we have to salvage what we can and draw a line under the past or ultimately fail. We have reason to believe it probable that GoW would drop its hostility and desire to exterminate RP if RP would reciprocally drop its hostility and desire to exterminate GoW. Finally, could you possibly furnish us with further information on any recent GoW peace offerings? If they offered you your current holdings minus Pamplona, then they are perhaps prepared to offer more than we were hitherto aware. May the sun continue to shine on his Holiness and his loyal servants, Respectfuly Yours, Cort Haus Gathering Storm (cc Arnelos)

	14-11-2003 07:51									#485
	Tired of ads?

quote: Cort Haus, We have, indeed, been given a peace offer that allowed for a small piece of land that encompasses the area of Toledo, Madrid, and Barcelona, and runs through the jungle east to the coast. None on our team were very pleased to receive it. I will do what I can to deal with my nation's hatred for GoW. I do think that peace is possible, but fear that even if we accepted peace, it will be under such onerous terms, and that the balance of power on our continent would be permanently destroyed. However, I too see no future in this war. We have not and cannot make signifigant gains. We are falling behind them in technology, especially with the sinister Legolanders meddling. I know not what to say, and I am not optimistic about our options. If any reasonable options present themself, please let us know. --Togas

	14-11-2003 10:33									#486
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We're willing to make peace, but we demand better terms than those currently offered by GoW.

If GoW wants to continue the war, we will be happy to do so. We will continue the war for as long as we have not yet received acceptable terms from GoW for its end.

Pretty simple.

	14-11-2003 23:15									#487
	Inflate your Upload Space

This is bad news. Now all hope on a better future is lost. I read this with mingled feelings. I have no trust in GoW that when we make peace they will keep word, but yes, without a lot of support form Lego, this war is endless and has no winners.
However, I play with the idea that if the war has no winners, unfortunately we cannot win it, but GoW and ND can't win it too and it will drain their economies and slow their development.

Aidun

	17-11-2003 07:04									#488
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quote: Togas, Here is a link to a zip file of this turn's screenshots. http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Theseus/PTWDG340AD.zip We are concerned for the safety of the Barcelona and are moving the six latest knights towards our fortifications west of that city. Unfortunately your workers are on the road and we must regrettably ask if they could withdraw from the road this turn to enable our knights to reach the intended defensive position. Maybe we are lucky and they finish their work next turn anway. If not, I'm sure you agree that our defensive security is a priority. Better news - with our strength of forces around Pamplona, it is unlikely that the enemy will risk attacking it yet, as they will be unlikely to hold it and risk losing a major force. Regards, CH GS

	20-11-2003 00:36									#489
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Hi Togas, Hope you're well. We have a bold plan at GS which we need to discuss with you. The goal is to negotiate a peace with GoW that allows RP to return to Spain after a sojourn in N.Stormia. We are making good progress with GoW in the negotiations, thus far. Theseus did want to approach you personally in full roleplaying garb but he seems to gave gotten work-bound the last few days, so I'm having to take the initiative, and frankly don't have the time to rewrite my points in that prose style - fun though it is. I'm off to rehearse in my band now - but I'll be back around 0100 GMT if you're around then for a chat. If we're lucky Theseus might be around too. If you see him online meantime, you might want to grab him, but beware, his mailbox may be full. Otherwise, some other time. We may be close to a new dawn! Regards, Cort Haus aka Lord Blackadder, Emergency Deputy Minister of Cunning Plans, Gathering Storm Stormia.

	20-11-2003 17:39									#490
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I wonder what GS and GoW are exactly up to.

If we can regain some of our former glory in some way, you have my vote to do it. We have but to be watchful and do any transfers of ownership over important cities with great care.

If we notice something about the enemy troops that is unusual or if we get indications of another trap, WE SHOULD NOT REFUSE TO BREAK ANY TREATY OR PROMISE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR VERY SURVIVAL.

Second, now that GS is doing some negotiations with GoW and they say that they are making good progress, it might be worth discussing about showing the final result to Legoland.
This can cause 2 scenarios:

1) If Lego has certain information from GoW that we do not have, and they see a danger for their own security because they see a GoW-trap that would cause us to loose this war, Lego will surely put pressure on GoW to not use this trap or break away.

2) Lego might pass, but I think that is less likely, to ND. ND becomes aware of a scenario in which an alliance of GoW, GS and RP is about to crush them and the GoW-ND relation might fall apart.

These things can only happen IF:

1) GoW was not clever enough to foresee fear from Legoland and they did not anticipate on it by promising Legoland something valueble to them that counterbalances a potential threat from GoW (and ND).

2) GoW was not clever enough to share at least some info about these negotiations with ND so that ND will not fear GoW's dagger in their back if the final text of the treaty is shown to them, and will believe GoW instead of the text distributed by us via Lego.


Perhaps this is interesting to think about, or at least to discuss.

Diomingo Cian

	21-11-2003 05:43									#491
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I trust GS on this issue, let's follow their lead. We are dead meat without them so it's pointless to not go along anyways.

	21-11-2003 17:16									#492
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I trust GS on this issue, let's follow their lead. We are dead meat without them so it's pointless to not go along anyways.

So do I, but still I wonder what they are exactly negotiating for.

Aidun

	22-11-2003 00:20									#493
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They are negotiating for RP's complete removal from Bob. However, after a brief time on North Stormia, we would then be allowed to come back to Bob. The way it would work is that we would gift all cities to GS that are on bob except our Capitol. The we move all units out of our Capitol then GS decalres war and take Pamplona forcibly becasue we cannot gift it away, the game wont allow it. Then we get a palace jump to North Stormia. We stay there for a turn or two. GoW's "contact" with ND is done and then we are allowed to move back to Bob with GS gifting us back all of our cities. GS, the decalres war again on us, in order to take outr new capitol citiy in North tormia, thus moving our Captiol back to Bob.

This is all happening in conjuntion with GS making a new contract with GoW against ND and possibly Lego....

	25-11-2003 18:05									#494
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Notice my comments in the IMPORTANTE thread.

Aidun

	26-11-2003 08:28									#495
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quote: PTWDG intel Togas, Can you report to us on GoW's actions and disposition ASAP? We need the intel for our ongoing negotiations with them. T

Do we have any screenshots from the last turn we can send to GoW?

--Togas

	26-11-2003 08:29									#496
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Togas, First, an update: We are trying to get GoW to accept an eventual 2/3 to 1/3 split of Bob, with GS and RP sharing around 250 of Bob's 750 tiles. This roughly corresponds to the area south of the jungle in the west, and south of a line running from the river N of Pamplona, North of Toledo to the coast SE of Mavdad. Meanwhile, we have some questions for you... 1) What has been built in Pamplona? 2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them? 3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built? also, 4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat). Many thanks, CH

	26-11-2003 10:04									#497
	Put an end to popups!

quote: 1) What has been built in Pamplona? Granary, Temple, Barracks, Palace 2) What units do you have left on Bob, and what should we - mutually - do with them? We either mass teleport them to Vox, or use them in the assault on ND. We'll need them to protect Pamplona initially. My best offer is to have them join in the attack, or to spearhead the attack and have your troops follow (as your turn follows our turn) in taking the city or position attacked. We will have some trouble against their muskets, though. I don't anticipate our troops being exceptionally useful. Their main use will be to hold positions, as we have a large # of pikemen. 3) What were your aspirations regarding a) territory and b) number of cities on Bob when re-built? One day we'd like to repopulate and rebuild all of Old Spain. We're willing to work on a long-term timetable for that. We understand that you must hold most of the cities in the early stages of your war on GS. We're unclear on if GS wants to keep permanent cities on Bob or not. If so, we'll work around your cities. 4) What will you be calling the cities on N. Stormia (presumably we will rename them after re-taking possession), and what would you like the new cities on Bob to be named (we can do that off the bat). We'll figure that out in the next few weeks. Please feel free to name new cities on Bob what you like, but we would request that you keep the names of our old cities that remain, and if any city is liberated from the Arabs, we'd request that its original name be restored. --Togas

	29-11-2003 04:39									#498
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Togas, I'm sorry to have to report that we've had advanced warning from Aggie that his team as a whole is not going to accept the offer from GS, despite many of them seeing the deal as fair and practical. It was a bold plan and we came close, but alas, no cigar. Perhaps better peace options will be available once their Golden Ages and WW sets in. Do you know when their GA's end - it must be soon now? We are discussing our options at the moment. Meanwhile, the longer Pamplona can hold the better. We know that GoW are extremely keen to gain control of it, and we suspect the possibility of saltpeter being within its radius. We could be wrong, it may just be the strategic location they desire in the heart of Spain. We will have gunpowder in 7-8 turns - then we finally get to see whether the stories about saltpeter are true. We are concerned about both Lego (on the Powergraph) and Vox too. I am getting no reply from Beta to my messages, and he's been saying odd things on the gen forum lately. Do you have a channel open with Vox? Any Intel would be greatly appreciated. The possibility of a Vox / Lego assault on Stormia from the east cannot be ruled out - so we may need to deploy units from Bob to defend the coast. Finally, in the course of trying to persuade GoW, we compared the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the findings, which we'd like to should share with you (if you don't already have this info): Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia) Bob : ~ 750 tiles Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia) All we can ask you to do for now is to sit tight, stay fortified in Pamplona and pray to the RNG Gods. Meanwhile we might need to teleport some units to Stormia via one of your cities we currently control to defend our east coast. I'll keep you posted. Regards CH

	29-11-2003 11:28									#499
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Togas, Here are screenshots from this turn : http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_nstorm.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_spain.jpg http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Cort haus/zx360_lego.jpg We have launched a rescue mssion for the stranded knights, and there are now 19 GS knights on the forest at Pamplona-1, with six on the mountain at Alamo-63. We are withdrawing from North Bob and lining the Stormian coast until we can be sure that Lego/Vox are not attacking from the east. A screenshot is included of the 10 Lego knights we saw near Yellowknife. We've also launched some diplo at Lego, to try and see how we might detatch them from the rest of their alliance. Regards, CH

	29-11-2003 20:30									#500
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ehm, I can't view the screenshots, 'Poly reports that I've found a missing page.

Aidun

	29-11-2003 23:41									#501
	Put an end to popups!

hmm..

Try putting an underline between "cort" and "haus"

It works when I click on the links in the PM, but for some reason maybe it's not copying right.

--Togas

	01-12-2003 17:19									#502
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The problem is the space between cort and haus and an underline doesn't work, neither does replacing the capital C by a normal c work. Could you perhaps try to post them again?
Or perhaps open the page yourself and then copy the adress from the URL bar into a post.

Maybe that works.

Aidun

	02-12-2003 05:26									#503
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

new links for the latest images:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...x360_nstorm.jpg

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co...zx360_spain.jpg

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Co.../zx360_lego.jpg

--Togas

	13-12-2003 05:37									#504
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Chat with GS:

quote: Session Start: Sat Dec 13 00:15:49 2003 Session Ident: #MilOps * Now talking in #MilOps * opd has joined #Milops * opd is now known as opdwaitingformzoepic1 * opdwaitingformzoepic1 is now known as opd [Aidun> OPD [opd> yes [opd> did you meet with GS people? [Aidun> Arnelos and I have consensus on what we think id the best strategy for our allaince, concerning RP's exodus [Aidun> but BigFree couldn't join it. He's not yet responded [opd> did you speak to cort haus [Aidun> We prefer to give him a chance to view our consensus agreement before it becomes official. [Aidun> No, I saw his PM at 0:22, local time, about 35 minutes ago [opd> do you think he'll agree? [Aidun> At that time he PMed me half an hour before I read it [Aidun> Can't say. BF is a hawk [Aidun> sometimes [opd> so what would you like to do then? [Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you * Cort has joined #MilOps [Cort> hi [opd> hey hey [opd> just about to PM you [Cort> I saw Aiduns PM [Aidun> Hey Cort Haus [Cort> Alright, Aidun [Cort> It's good to talk to some of you guts at last [opd> [Aidun> Arnelos and I have consensus on what we think id the best strategy for our allaince, concerning RP's exodus [opd> [Aidun> but BigFree couldn't join it. He's not yet responded [opd> [opd> did you speak to cort haus [opd> [Aidun> We prefer to give him a chance to view our consensus agreement before it becomes official. [opd> [Aidun> No, I saw his PM at 0:22, local time, about 35 minutes ago [opd> [opd> do you think he'll agree? [opd> [Aidun> At that time he PMed me half an hour before I read it [Cort> er, guys [opd> [Aidun> Can't say. BF is a hawk [opd> [Aidun> sometimes [opd> [opd> so what would you like to do then? [opd> [Aidun> We only want to stay alive if we can be of any real use to you, only if our survival in N-Stormia benefits you [opd> * Cort has joined #MilOps [opd> [Cort> have I missed much? [opd> just that [Cort> ok, that's cool ... [Cort> you can be really useful to as as a tech partner [Cort> *us excuse terrible typing [Cort> We have gunpowder very soon [Aidun> ass long ass we can understand watt you wright, its fine [Cort> [Cort> - and reason to belive that other civs will be keen to offer us generous trading terms [Aidun> That is great, but can RP be of real benefit to you, or are we just that other team you are carying on you back [Aidun> please be honest [Cort> there's been discussion in the team about this ... [Cort> on one hand we could have our own core up there eventually [Cort> but on the other hand you guys coould have a core there now * Octavian_X has joined #milops [Aidun> right, it could spare you an FP in the future [Cort> five cities at size six, many sea tiles could generate easily 80gpt righth? [Aidun> I don't know about numbers [Cort> hi Octavian [Aidun> Hi Octavian [Octavian_X> Hello. [Cort> there are 26 tiles of sea wall to cover ... * Disconnected Session Close: Sat Dec 13 01:09:32 2003 Session Start: Sat Dec 13 01:09:35 2003 Session Ident: #MilOps * Now talking in #MilOps [Octavian_X> That's disappointing... [Aidun> something went wrong... [Cort> ok to continue? [Aidun> yes [Cort> there are about 26 units of coast to cover .. [Cort> you could build cats for this [Aidun> ok [Cort> they have many attractions - cheap, upgrade to nice things and they ping ships [opd> were blocking the tiles so were invincible till amphibious warfare [Cort> then we can move our forces south for our own sea wall [Cort> we'll both be safe in a cocoon for over an era [Aidun> So we build cats to shoot the enemy boats [Cort> during which time we build up, become commercially strong and hope the others break themselves in war [Cort> - especially Lego [Aidun> Seems a good plan [Cort> Now, if ND/GoW go and invade Lego ... [Cort> they don't want us jumping in behind - that's both of us and you'll have conquistadors [Aidun> so they have to fight two fronts again [Cort> Yes - So at the very least they'll pay for our neutrality [Cort> If they don't attack Lego, Lego win - right? [Aidun> right [Aidun> you force them to [Aidun> and GoW is not the type of team to go for one era of building [Cort> lol - Yes - and there's our leverage [Cort> GoW have made us a peace offer [Cort> A cease fire - via formal peace and we'd get some wine [Cort> that may not be the right price, but it's the right direction [Cort> all signs are that once we're off Bob, they don't want to be enemies at all [Aidun> I cannot speak for my team until at least BigFree has seen it. But if you agree to this with your team, Arnelos and I will agree to this too and I expect BigFree to do that to. Afterall we're desperate and every opportunity to continue AND be of worth to you is for us a reason to go on and go for it. [Cort> and the scenario above explains why [Cort> sure, Aidun - we're interested in what RP as a team think, and what individuals think [Cort> Arrian may be chatting to Arnelos later - they're on the same team in the MZOC3C game [Aidun> very well. [Cort> this is geat Aidun, I appreciate the chat [Aidun> Another practical thing that means a lot for our team: Pamplona and the remains of Spain that are on your hands now [Cort> Yes, we need to talk about that [Aidun> what will we do with that? Arnelos and I have consensus about that too. [Cort> You probably have a lot of bargaining power with GoW now [opd> what do you about it? [Aidun> I have a plan [Cort> go on [Aidun> We no longer in vest in the war: no offensive campaigns anymore, no extra finance to keep up an army on Bob, but: [Aidun> remain Pamplona as long as possible, and if that doesn't drain your economy, remain the other cities on Bob as well and only making suer there is some basic defense in it. For Pamplona we intend to keep it as long as possible and try to defend it. If we lose it, so be it. We don't want to do anything anymore to recover lost cities. [Cort> Aggie told us something about Pamplona [Octavian_X> That does sound like a good idea. I don't see why ND and GoW would object to allowing RP one city on Bob... [Cort> The battle of the Forest of Doom hit them and ND hard too - mainly ND, [Aidun> Forest of Doom, weren't I so desperate, I'd write a story about it [Cort> but that was enough to stop the combined one-two that would have taken it [Aidun> [Aidun> right [Cort> Listen - Aggie says that battle gave Pamplona another FIFTEEN turns [Cort> waddya think of that? [Aidun> that is a lot. And with your new approach I think it's useless for them to attack [Cort> - exactly [Cort> I think you could do a deal with GoW [Aidun> especially if we'd put muskets in it. [opd> I gotta go to bed [opd> see you guys around [Cort> cya * opd has quit IRC (Quit: ) [Aidun> ok OPD. cya [Aidun> but that is not a plan right now * asleepathewheel has joined #milOps [Cort> Hey, AATW! [asleepathewheel> hey [asleepathewheel> whats going on right now? [Aidun> interesting info Cort, I guess Arn can do something with it. [Aidun> put it to use. [Cort> to summarise : [Cort> so far ... [Aidun> Hey AATW, I have but to go in a few minutes [Cort> OK [asleepathewheel> ah, right, I'll get the wrap later [asleepathewheel> [Cort> when can we talk again?

	13-12-2003 05:39									#505
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The consensus Arnelos and I have:

quote: Session Start: Sat Dec 13 00:16:27 2003 Session Ident: Arnelos * Logging Arnelos to 'logs\Arnelos.GRNet.log' [Aidun> Do we need to discuss what to do once more or do we generally agree? [Arnelos> you tell me... what does the team agree on? I'm not sure [Aidun> lets see [Aidun> its about the exodus you know [Arnelos> right [Arnelos> what IS the team's decision [Arnelos> I'm not sure [Aidun> there is no decision of the team, Togas PMed me about that. did you receive a PM too? [Aidun> from him? [Arnelos> no [Aidun> I'll forward it then. [Arnelos> ok [Arnelos> I think we should just post a poll in the forum [Arnelos> explain the issue and let the team decide [Aidun> the team is us three: You, Bigfree and I, if it is up to Togas [Arnelos> ok [Arnelos> what's your vote? [Aidun> moment, I noticed CH and AATW PMed me [Aidun> Ch PMED me half an hour ago if I was online [Aidun> Im forwarding Togas's now [Arnelos> ok [Aidun> sent * Aidun is getting a cup of tea [Aidun> back [Aidun> but what do you think of the PM? can we get consensus? [Arnelos> here's what I think... I'm willing to let the decision be GS' frankly [Arnelos> I have no particular attachment to this game anymore [Arnelos> I'll stay in it if RP Team surviving will help GS [Arnelos> but if we're not actually going to help GS, I see little reason to keep going [Aidun> But don't you have your own ideas about it. Wait, didn't you post in the 390 thread? I have to reread it [Arnelos> not sure if that's what I posted, but that's what I think now [Aidun> You wanted to talk with ND about peace, that was your last post [Arnelos> ah, yes [Arnelos> that's the only way to survive, I believe [Arnelos> assuming we're interested in survival, that's our only ticket [Aidun> I think we're better off talking to Neu Demogyptica about a seperate peace. ND has most of the territory they want and if they have even a fraction of a brain, have far more to be worried about concerning their alliance fracturing after the peace and ND getting the boot. [Aidun> Let's see if ND has any brain cells left after their wild drinking binge of a war. If they're really going to play the dupe for Legoland and Glory of War, there may not be much hope. Best bet might be to contact Legoland, then finally Glory of War. [Aidun> Does anyone have ANY contact information for Neu Demogyptica? We need that and we need it now. [Aidun> this it your post [Aidun> I believe that you're right [Aidun> peace is the only way to survive, but in case we don't get peace? [Arnelos> then we ask GS if it's really worth keeping us around [Aidun> Arnelos? [Arnelos> sorry [Aidun> np [Arnelos> to me, it depends on our utility to GS... if GS has little use for keeping us and we're either more of a liability or simply a non-factor, there's little reason to stay alive [Arnelos> *to help [Arnelos> if, on the other hand, we can still aid GS, then we can stay around merely to help them [Aidun> To that I fully agree [Arnelos> so we should ask GS [Arnelos> what use will we REALLY be put to and how much will that REALLY help GS? [Aidun> and if we can aid GS? I suggest that we do slow retreat. no offensives, just let GS keep up a low defensive force in the cities they posess to defend it and we maintain Pamplona as long as possible. [Arnelos> that probably works [Aidun> and if we lose cities, then we lose them, so be it, I don't want to do more offensive missions on Bob before this war has ended. [Arnelos> indeed [Aidun> then we agree and BigFree probably too [Arnelos> probably [Aidun> shall I post this result as the final result then? [Arnelos> go ahead and post that that's what we agree to, see if BF has any comment (or anyone else sill alive) [Arnelos> *still [Aidun> right [Aidun> And can we share this with GS already or do you rather send it tomorrow. [Aidun> *would you [Arnelos> check with BF first, let's make sure we're all on the same page [Arnelos> once that's done, we send it [Aidun> ok [Arnelos> I'd still like to hold a chat with asleepathewheel, though [Arnelos> he said he'd try to catch us in chat [Aidun> always interesting [Arnelos> (this weekend) [Aidun> I guess he might arrive by the time I quit or tomorrow or sunday [Arnelos> don't know [Arnelos> we'll see [Arnelos> we can go ahead and tell him that's what the two of us think [Aidun> that's waht I'm doing now Session Close: Sat Dec 13 01:41:48 2003

Aidun

	15-12-2003 05:21									#506
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A PM from Cort Haus that was sent to me and BigFree:

quote: Cort Haus wrote on 13-12-2003 15:47: Arnelos, I've been thinking long and hard about the current balance of forces on Bob, and in the world. On Bob, the recent carnage has left RP in a far stronger position than they were a few turns ago, and have also left Lego in a commanding game position. Now may be the time for all four nations in the Bobian war to make a final settlement. I believe that RP could negotiate a deal with GoW and ND which grants peace and land rights to RP on Bob, plus a generous tech and luxury package to RP and GS in exchange for existing cities (including Pamp, Barca, New Madrid). RP palace moves to Miller Town where they have 5 cities on Estonia, plus a negotiable token city presence on Bob - to be decided amongst the Bobians. GS would have no part in those land negotiations. GS also assures GoW and ND that they will not intervene or land on Bob while ND and GoW go and take Lego down a peg or two. (destroying Bach and Sistine, for example) I've posted the this thinking on our private forum for our team to consider - so this is just an idea and not our team position - but I think both teams should be thinking about this option. If GS and RP like it, we can push it at GoW and ND to see what they think. We have to move fast - I feel that the participants in this war should not be wasting a single shield on each other that they now should be saving for Lego. Regards, Cort Haus cc BigFree, Aidun

I've copied it to the ND negotiation thread too.

Aidun

	15-12-2003 11:58									#507
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

PM from Vox Controli

quote: Greetings to Togas, BigFree, Arnelos and the many fine people of Spain, We of Vox Controli now live in a harsh land. The rock known as Voxtavia is an unforgiving land mass and only our beaches and great fishing industry have sustained us. But the people of Voxtavia are hardy. We survive and now thrive. We have been working on a project that might interest the people of Spain. By necessity, much of our population consists of fishermen and mountain men, but a new generation of us have begun to study the few books we were able to bring with us. The desire for wider distribution of these books is leading us to develop a process of printing on a special press. No longer will our few scribes be forced to work day and night to produce our books. Perhaps in a few more years, once we have perfected the process we would be able to share our printing press techniques with the people of Spainin exchange for knowledge we do not possess. Best regards to Roleplay Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli P.S. in simple terms, we will have printing press in several more turns and would be willing to trade it with you then for tech. If you would like to make an offer I will discuss it with the rest of my team. Thanks.

	16-12-2003 03:33									#508
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

PM from Darekill of ND:

quote: Dear Arnelos, as almost always RP has added some fun to the game. You seem to misunderstand your situation completely. We risk something by offering you this plan. You gain alot in saving your troops in Pamplona. Pamplona will fall. That is not the point. Of course we'd loose some more Ansar in the process but that's not decisive. Toledo and the other RP citys wouldn't hold long against GoW and ND either. You should know that. By promising you that neither Pamplona nor Toledo would be razed nor renamed we are adding again something as you said. I told my people what you wrote me and they all feel the same. The thing is quite easy there's no need to chat, you can agree to our terms, or leave it be. Pamplona will be ours soon if you don't raze it beforehand. So make your decisions and be asured you don't have forever to decide. Darekill Ambasador to Spain

Obviously, I'm telling him "no deal".

I'll tell him that if he's willing to discuss something IN RETURN for us doing them the favor of voluntarily giving up our territory without a fight, then we have something to discuss. If he's not willing to give anything in return, then we have nothing to discuss.

Period.

I have no intention of supporting our team giving up without a fight unless it MEANS something that is going to help change the future of the game to the benefit of the GS/RP alliance.

	16-12-2003 03:52									#509
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Got a PM from Arrian that I'm frankly not going to post because much of it was just letting me know how members of Gathering Storm were reacting to a PM apparently sent by BigFree to the members of Gathering Storm blasting them for being "cowards" for seeking to withdraw from the conflict.

Apparently, Aidun has PMed GS and attempted to patch things up, which I aplaud.

As for BigFree's opinion on the matter, I do not happen to agree with BigFree's assessment that a team which has lost something around 30 units or so on our soil trying to defend us against an invasion counts as "cowardly". I do not hold it against them that they have fought and unfortunately lost a few key battles that make withdrawing the better part of valor right now. If there is any fault to their prosecution of the war, it is that while they have been brave, at times they have been foolish and GoW and ND have taken advantage of those occassions rather well.

I have expressed my opinion on that subject to Arrian, who I am sure may pass it on to his team.

On a brighter note, GS would like to have a discussion with members of our team in the near future. Aidun, if you could be in chat as much as possible for the next few days, that would certainly help.

	16-12-2003 03:59									#510
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From me to Darekill:

quote: Darekill, RP Team is interested in doing you a favor if you are willing to do us a favor. However, we do not consider voluntarily laying down our arms and handing control of our cities over to you without a fight to be you doing us a favor, but rather us doing you a favor. If you are unwilling to do us any favor in return for cities, then we have very little to discuss. Should you change your mind and wish to provide some incentive for RP Team to agree to a peaceful settlement on Bob, you can let me know. In the meantime, however, RP Team has really nothing left to lose and has absolutely zero incentive to help teams that will not help them in return. If you are truly worried about your future relationship with Glory of War and wish that RP Team could be useful to you in the future in dealing with any such difficulties, we remain interested, but we'll need to see something tangible. Thank you. - Arnelos