18-04-2003 17:02									#391
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Personally, I'd rather make it look like we're to blame. If we mention that we wanted to see an official proposal first, then it might generate the feeling that we may have played morally thus far, but we are willing to change our ways if the price is right. We don't want to look hypocritical, certainly not after Vox's "moral high-ground" thread.

I'm not sure about mentioning to them again that landing on our territory will be considered as a declaration of war. It was already mentioned directly to GF, and he got the message. Besides, we want to show them some trust.

I will thank them for their screenshots, and rephrase the second quote with some euphemisms.

	18-04-2003 17:12									#392
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Btw, is there anything that we'd like GoW to tell Vox?
There's the possibility that GoW and Vox are collaborating, and that GoW will reveal any information embedded in this message that would look like it has some strategic value. We can use that, and plant messages that will lead Vox into doing the wrong thing on the battlefield.
Any thoughts?

	18-04-2003 17:55									#393
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Oh I just wanted their PM to have some kind of 'proof' they were the ones initiating this idea.
-
Not really sure on telling them anything, sharp edge we would walking on, one that cuts both ways.

	19-04-2003 02:43									#394
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quote: Sorry it took so long, decisions decisions. So many undefended cities, so little time.

Sounds like they landed...

	19-04-2003 02:53									#395
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If they did, I propose to call for total war. First message after discovering it would be:
"No, GF, we told you before we are not going to play in your ruse, trying to get Bob into thinking you were attacking us, leaving an undefended territory behind. We do not want your money, we will not post screenshots and scream about you taking advantage of us, we will not fuel any ideas other Bobians might have on your defensive situation. What we will do is drive your pathethic forces off our territory, and hope that Bob will judge on your actions. You are in no shape to take us on anyway, how can you launch an invasion to a team half the world away, in their GA, and fully set to keep attacking forces out of their territory? It's sweet that you take the trap of undefended cities Vox was not willing to fall for, so now deal with it."

DeepO

	19-04-2003 02:58									#396
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Sounds good.
Can we send it as soon as we've verified that they declared war on us?

	19-04-2003 03:06									#397
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#GoW, password Dtrategy (/join #GoW Dtrategy)

	19-04-2003 03:08									#398
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How about we don't talk to them at all. At least for a turn or two. If we say anything it should be along the lines of "some raiders dressed as GoW troops have landed on our coasts and been dispatched of. We hope this is a rogue band of Pirates and not officially endorsed action by GoW."

If it's just those 2 horses, GoW must be trying for a fake war. They know WC's will take out Horses on Hills... We kinda have to play along as we can't go fighting them now, but we don't have to take part in the deception.

If they have a bunch of Horses/Spears... it's a Vox/GoW thing most likely. GoW would probably be looking to take Monsoon, pile in the troops, and gift the city back to Vox so their Horses all move back to the mainland. (might plan on gifting it to us, but not likely) They'd want us to post screenshots so ND looks at them as easy pickings... not knowing everything in those screenshots is headed back to GoW's capitol. (this doesn't work...at least not very well... if ND can see Monsoon on their map)

If this is such a trick, we can either just be silent about it, or help ND out. I'd prefer to help ND out by explaining what happened to them.

	19-04-2003 03:19									#399
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Aeson, you have a point, however we can't allow ourselves to be used, knowing that it happens. We have to comment on that, in the public forum. Which is why we need to talk to them, if they now tell us: it's just a fake, but please let our horses stay there for one turn, there can only be one response: You made a mistake, and are now at war. And we will post your previous idea, as we do not want to be any part of this consipracy you force us into.

DeepO

	19-04-2003 03:21									#400
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Damn, here we go again. I'm banned from apolyton.net for the next 2 minutes. Too many connections, too soon

Could it be that posting counts as a connection too? In that case, there really is a poly problem, and not my isp fault as 'poly says...

DeepO

	19-04-2003 03:24									#401
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Of course we kill whatever has landed (if feasible).

	19-04-2003 03:29									#402
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If we want to really give GoW grief, we could pretend to go along with GoW's ruse in public but inform ND privately of what they suggested.

	19-04-2003 03:31									#403
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I'd prefer to help ND out by explaining what happened to them.

I dunno if we should post anything about it in the public forum, though. Just PMs to ND will do fine.

	19-04-2003 03:32									#404
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Aeson: anyways, GF has told me they didn't land anything... take that as you will
Aeson: I think you're not supposed to know that though...so don't let on too much

	19-04-2003 03:33									#405
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are those quotes from a chat, or what?

context please.

	19-04-2003 03:34									#406
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yes, Those disembodied quotes of Aeson seem schizophrenic


Please tell whats going on/. I'm dying over here.

	19-04-2003 03:35									#407
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber #GoW, password Dtrategy (/join #GoW Dtrategy)

You are there as Shiber, yes?

	19-04-2003 03:35									#408
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The contents of two private messages that he sent me.
I don't think we should trust that information. In any case, I'm all for alerting ND in secret while butchering GoW's horsemen.

	19-04-2003 03:39									#409
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We can't play along, it will look bad on us once other teams (e.g. Lego) will find out. I'm all for warning ND if it comes to that, but please let us try to keep GoW from declaring war on us, or invading our territory. If they do it, they will ruin our chances to play together, and we have no choice to team up with ND. I'd like to keep our options open for as long as possible

And I've been warned again, another 5 minutes ban
Damn apolyton irc server, I never have so many problems getting on a server, except here, where it matters.

DeepO

	19-04-2003 03:46									#410
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO And I've been warned again, another 5 minutes ban Damn apolyton irc server, I never have so many problems getting on a server, except here, where it matters.

If you have any specific questions you'd like to ask GoW then let me know and I'll pass them on.

Or if you can get into the Candle'Bre IRC room I can join too and be your interpreter into the GoW room on 'poly's server.

	19-04-2003 03:49									#411
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I don't think we should do anything definite until we get the save and see whether they landed or not. We don't want to be feeding ND bad information...

	19-04-2003 03:53									#412
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You're right in saying that we should be careful. Maybe we should tell ND that we're not sure yet if GoW has actually landed or if it's just high talk, but we know for a fact that they considered such a ruse, and therefore we advise ND not to make any rash decisions.

	19-04-2003 03:57									#413
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ND plays after us... so it can wait till we know for sure.

	19-04-2003 03:58									#414
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I don't think we want to say anything to ND about this until we get the save and see for ourselves what has (and hasn't) happened.

	19-04-2003 04:00									#415
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I agree. We need hard facts before we start talking to ND about this.
There's not alot they can do in one turn anyway.

	19-04-2003 04:08									#416
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Thanks FP. The only thing I really want to say to them is that, as a humble member of GS, I will never allow us to lie to other teams. If they invade us, after telling us it is only a ruse, we have the moral obligation to declare war, and to stay at war until every other team knows of how GoW wanted to deceive them. I don't like it to be forced, and I hoped that we could have a good, honorable relation with GoW, but if they force us, we will respond.

Oh, and I may be just one member of our team, but if this team would decide to look the other way on the honor thing just because this once it would suit us, I'd resign. This will create so many problems later on, that it is not worth it to continue, trying to clean up the mess we would have put ourselves in. Already we aren't looked upon as the friendliest team, I would hate to see us using this kind of dishonorable practices to gain from it. We don't need it, and I'd rather lose the game then go back on promises made before. Yes, I feel very strongly about this...

DeepO

	19-04-2003 04:12									#417
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BTW, If they invade us, we would do good to set research up to the max, and get ourselves to knights asap. It would be fun to invade Bob with knights (possibly helped by answar's) before GoW is able to get them

DeepO

	19-04-2003 04:39									#418
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I second DeepO. There's no such thing as "lying just once", since one lie always drags another behind. Besides, what good is a moral code if you can break it when it's comfortable?

	19-04-2003 05:43									#419
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I stand by DeepO as well.

	19-04-2003 05:48									#420
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I don't like the "stay at war until" part. There are other ways to deal with the situation to avoid being accomplices in GoW's plot, and I'd rather give GoW the chance to cut their losses if they make the mistake of thinking we'll cooperate once the landing is done.