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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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Interesting responce from GoW. We definately need to go on in this thread of thought...
I would somehow mention the following things to them:
- We can understand RP (and the rest of the world) looks scared at our research rate, however we choose so far to try the peaceful approach, instead of waging war to get an advantage. This is not good for RP, as it hopes for the same thing with its vast, easily defendable territory, we're direct competitors
- So far, we had contact with other teams, and the only ones RP is really working into getting to agree with them is GoW. ND will not spend money they can save, just to please RP. Legoland sees RP as the biggest threat, and RP sees Legoland as the biggest threat (over us, as we have Vox to worry about). They are actively seeking to set all of us up against each other, by offering trade embargoes everywhere. Don't be surprised if very soon, GoW would find itself at the short end of one of RP's trade embargoes.
- How will this affect Chivalry? We can get it as first for sure, in our GA. We are not pressed to get it fast as GoW or ND are, we are not planning to invade another continent soon (if at all). But, if an embargo would be signed against us with GoW, would they still be able to trade chivalry to us? Otherwise, we would be better of researching Chivalry ourselves, and sell it (many turns before any other team can research it) to everyone interested.
- RP is cramming to correct their mistake: They thought Vox would be able to slam us back into the stone ages, however they start to realize that Vox will not do that, and because of the triggered war, and most likely the short duration of the war (no 30 turns, more like 10), we will gain more from this war then if it was not called for by them. Our GA alone will put us on top for the moment, further dividing our commerce speed from the rest of the pack
- We think that the biggest competitor to winning this game is RP, because they obviously have some dark grip on Bob, and they manage to incite wars (not only the Vox - GS war, but also a possible GoW-ND war, and a Bob-Lego war) with them staying clear of the action. So others burn resources while they simply keep on expanding and defending. If this continues, soon they will pass all (including Lego) in size.
- We have no problems whatsoever with GoW trading on Feudalism after the NDA, it was what we anticipated. But seeing as they are startting bidding wars just to get a better price (in the end only advantaging RP), talking between us (Secretly! If RP finds out, the scheme is gone) can only help us both. If for instance we could come to a minimum price of 100 gold that RP needs to pay to get Feud, refusing to sell it below that mark, and dividing whatever gains one of us would get, we both win relatively to RP, and most likely get more gold from the shared deal then if either of us would go alone, and totally underbid the competition.
- If we could get all teams we will sell Feud to to agree to a similar deal, we could keep the price of Feudalism up on 200 gold or even increase it to eg 300 gold. If RP is not able to buy it anywhere for a lower price, their scheme is failing, and everyone who does invest money to get the tech sooner would be repaid part of its initial price. So, this would advantage all first time sellers equally, instead of advantaging those who did not want to pay first, hoping to 'steal' profit later on.
For us, this would be totally acceptable: 200 gold from GoW for our 700 beakers investment now. RP refuses, but in 10 turns, still needs to pay 200 gold for the tech, and has no other option than to buy it anyway. At which time, we would get e.g. 66 gold (if there are only 2 buyers, which is not certain yet), getting e.g. 466 for 700 investment. GoW would pay 133 for Feud, (ND the same), and RP pays 200 gold, only 10 turns later. In the end, it will still mean that we bore the biggest cost (233 gold), but that's okay for us, as long as RP is not able to get it for e.g. 40 gold, which they could without any deal between GoW and GS.
- Lego might get influenced by RP too much, we hear many of RPs 'unofficial communication' reflected in their talks. If RP can secretly sign an alliance with Lego, pretending to be its biggest competitor, we're in trouble. They could focus on military expansion only, being sure to receive necesssary techs from Lego. And from what we can tell, RP is trying very hard to convince everyone of Lego's superious position, while they try to get most advantages out of it.
Maybe some other things too... but I would like to get some communicatioon going, if we could keep the price of Feud up to 200 gold (if we also include ND in this deal), we could bypass both RP, and Lego if they decide not to buy the tech from us. I absolutely do not mind that this would further help those who bought the tech from us at release, even so that through irony, they are the ones paying fewest.
DeepO
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiber
GoW have the turn. Shall we ask them for our intelligence shots now, or do we wait?
I'm requesting permission to ask Panzer32 if I see him in the chat. If he responds quickly and sends the shots shortly after I asked, it is more likely to assume that they're not doctoring those images (another possibility is that they already prepared the doctored shot for this turn). |
yes, I would get them ASAP.
Why is GoW holding their save? What are they up to?
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:26
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I can imagine the messages GoW is getting. 
Vox "What is your Galley doing off our coasts?"
RP "We would deny we ever sent this message, what is your Galley doing off Vox's coasts?"
Vox "Monsoon is undefended, land your Horses there!"
RP "We would deny this message ever was sent, but we think you should know GS is asking us to form an alliance against you."
Vox "Edit in more Immortals into the shots of the stacks you are sending GS! They must fear us!"
RP "We would deny we ever sent this message, edit out all the Immortals in the shots fo the stacks you are sending! They must underestimate Vox!"
RP "We would deny we ever sent this message, but ND tells us they have signed an alliance with GS against you. Lego and Lux have also signed up!"
Vox "We are in control of GS' core, all we need from you is to hit Monsoon ASAP, we seem to have slightly overextended our reach, if Monsoon falls, GS falls!"
RP "We would deny we ever sent this message, but Vox tells us they are in desperate need of assistance. If Vox falls, GS wins the game in 2 turns!"
Or something like that.
GoW could be doing a few things: (serious now)
1. They are trying to get RP to agree to allowing them to keep up our trade agreement for 2 more turns, knowing we will be able to verify the screenshots in that timeframe. This allows them to get Feudalism ASAP, send it to Vox and RP, and start on Chivalry. They would then land their Horses as a diversionary measure. They would have to get a promise of Iron from RP. They aren't stupid enough to base their existance on whether or not Vox can take us.
2. GoW has already backstabbed us by sending us edited photos. They are now trying to deduce how Vox can move their troops without us finding out, at least until we send them Feudalism. Vox doesn't want to delay their SOD just to protect GoW's chances at getting Feudalism, RP doesn't want GoW to get Feudalism until 'they say so', and GoW doesn't want to go along with Vox's plans for landing their Horses by Monsoon to be killed (which GoW would guess would happen).
3. Of course GoW could just want to keep their agreement with us, and are taking as much time as they can to convince RP that it will help 'them' in the long run. Something like 'once we have riders, GS is dead', or keeping to the charade about Vox being able to handle us with their 36 Immortals. I think this is more likely than either of the two above.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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First of all, let's not assume GoW has been sending us edited screenshots before we are 100% sure. If they believe we can win, or at least fend of a Voxian attack until we are strong enough (and this is the case, they have seen Vox's cities and our power jump), they won't risk backstabbing us like this, certainly not after having heard our reactions to Vox's treatment of our deals.
Chivalry as payment for a contract: very interesting idea. We could provide them with Chivalry and gold instead of only 200 gold for the tech, that should make it possible for them to attack RP. However, ND is the problem factor here, if we would do that, we should also try to sell Chivalry to them, if they would use it to attack RP (whether they attack GoW too doesn't interest us). Such a deal could be wonderous, if we don't get caught as those who planned it.
DeepO
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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So they think ND is going to invade them?
I think they are listening to Senor Togas' poisoned tongue.
we have a few turns to discuss this ruse, and we shall do so. I think that GoW is going to get burned by this, and by extension so shall we. AFter all, GoW has already done this once with Vox, the other two, ND and RP could deny knowldege, since they couldnt' see port of isolation and couldnt' see the units.
Of course, there arent't that many civs left to consider their reactions....
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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We can't do it, period. And if this ever gets an official poll, I would call a black ball vote for it. This is not exactly cheating, but it is far from being honorable, so goes against not only what we want to appear to others, but also how we play this game.
But, refusing it does not necessarily mean we can't explore options here. I for one would like to know if this really is one of their ideas, or if this was a contract on us from Vox. Vox had good contacts with GoW (mercs by definition), had cash to burn, and an over-powerful neighbour. It doesn't take long to figure out a possible connection here.
Add to this that at first, GoW was completely certain that we were wussies, and Vox would walk over us. We convinced them of our strengths, and that it would be foolish to try to invade us, as we would not be stopped in our revenge. If they had a contract on us, I'm sure that right then they'd think twice of how well much their contract was really worth it, and if their price hadn't been too low.
Really, I would like to go to the bottom of this, because it's the third thing in a row we feel funny about:
- the 'invasion' of Port isolation, afterwards proving to be a total mockup, not even one immortal landed there.
- The scouting, which might be right (actually, I think that we have them convinced of switching sides, and that for the moment they wouldn't dear to backstab their 'friends')
- Now asking us to scream war on the forum (which we're obviously good at, we might have impressed GF  ), when we knew in front nothing would happen.
The problem is, we can't ask them directly, they would get upset, and we'd lose a friend, making them even more a liability to us. So instead, I would simply politely refuse, as this will never get approved by GS, not even if by technicallity we would not be required to lie.
DeepO
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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Ah good point DeepO
We suspect that Vox has a lot of gold.
We know that GoW will go to the highest bidder, its in their team charter.
GoW is bought Feudal from us and steaming towards chivalry in a crappy gov't.
GoW asks us to fake a war with them.
Connect the dots.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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IS it odd that GoW has been silent for a few days?
A war is coming on Bob, we know that, what we don't know is who will fight whom. We know that currently GoW has no iron, they did have a supply but it is now in ND's cultural border. I'm thinking that we might consider establishing an embassy with GoW, it shouldn't be too expensive, to see where will be getting their iron from in the future. If they are getting their iron from RP, which I suspect is the purpose for each having harbors, then ND (or us) will be targeted.
Of course, before we do this, we should figure out if Vox has given out their map with our capital revealed, which they at least have given it to RP probably, as we don't want it out yet. If they do know, then it would only cost us 50 or so gold.
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Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:26
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Pending approval.
I was thinking of adding some intelligence about RP (I have no moral problems whatsoever with exposing the contents of diplomatic PMs if they turn out to be lies) but then I realized that they haven't asked for any. If we would send them info that appears as intelligence when they haven't asked for it, it would seem like we're trying to feed them with that info to further our own goals (which is not far from the truth  ).
Also, is there anything that we want to ask them about?
quote:
Hot_Enamel, respected consul of the Glory of War,
First of all, I would like to apologize for not having replied sooner. As you can imagine, discussions within GS are concerned more with our military aims rather than diplomatic matters, with the last turn thread reaching an impressive 164 posts. I got swiped with all the excitement of strategical planning and neglected my duties as temporary ambassador to GoW. Please accept my most sincere apologies.
Now, to the matter at hand. I understand that you have requested us to assist you with some kind of 'ruse', to fool Neu Demogyptica into thinking that you are busy attacking us and launch their own attack on GoW, only to realize that you were well prepared for their attack. I applaud your thinking and creativity, but I'm afraid that my team cannot assist you with this operation. Since the beginning of the game, my teammates and I have sworn to play honestly. As a result, Gathering Storm has turned down any ideas and plans that involve dishonesty, and will make no exceptions - not even with our close friends GoW.
I am sorry if this spoils your plans to some degree, but I urge you to understand that my friends and I will not deviate from the moral code that we have all signed upon under any circumstances. However, I would be happy to discuss anything else that we can do to help your team.
Finally, I would like to personally thank you for your assistance to the GS Army's Department of Military Intelligence. Your information regarding sightings of Vox military units proved to be most valuable in assessing our situation, and our chief images analyzers and myself would like to thank you personally for your help.
Respectfully,
Shiber, temporary Gathering Storm ambassador to Glory of War.
CC: GhengisFarb, respected leader of Glory of War.
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Edit: message edited, comments by Alva taken into account.
Last edited by Shiber on 18-04-2003 at 17:10
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alva
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Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:26
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Damn, lost my post, I'll try to recreate it...
quote:
First of all, I would like to apologize for not having replied sooner. |
I specifically asked them to send us their request as a PM, something they didn't do, therefore we can hardly be late. I would leave it in though, perhaps mention it.
quote:
Since the beginning of the game, we have sworn to play honestly. My teammates and myself have turned down any ideas and plans that involve lying, |
I don't think we want to step on anyone toes for the moment, perhaps 'imaginative', 'creative' will do the trick .
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3. I think DeepO posted it somewhere to remind them that landing their units will be a declaration of war.
4. Be sure to thank them for the screenshots, blahblah
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12-04-2003 04:59
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