11-04-2003 03:44									#301
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by alva Why do names not show up in my log?

Because they are surrounded with clauses, that the forum interprets as vb code. If you edit the message, you could see the correct contents.
Logs should be put through a word processor that would turn all '<'s to nothings and all '>'s to ':'s, or anything else that would get the job done.

	11-04-2003 03:46									#302
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thx, Alva Names: that's an option you can set in mIRC, I think, somewhere near logging. I'm not sure, though, no IRC expert.

I really like the idea of allowing them Sea ROP in exchange for up to date troop information, I fully support that. But still, 1 galley in our cultural borders at any time would be a good thing to ask for.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:48									#303
	Got spare money?

Oh: and Iron: why not mention to them that we really would like to deal with them, however we currently can't spend resources on getting a harbor asap to accomodate them? Make it sound like they need it, but we would certainly welcome it.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:51									#304
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Someone please thank GF for threatening to bash my face in

how funny, no iron. thats a huge continent but they are closed off from any possible deposits? Hmm.

Riders require iron? I haven't played Chinese checkers in a long time.

Imagine them fighting against ND and RP with only horses. haha. no wonder they want us dead. Probably the deal is to help vox in exchange for an iron supply.

	11-04-2003 03:57									#305
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Probably the deal is to help vox in exchange for an iron supply.

Haven't thought about that one yet, Vox certainly has something to bargain with.

Actually, if GoW would appear with a galley off Monsoon at the exact same time as Vox prepares to attack us, I would be a bit scared. We definately need to trust them, make them swear their solemnly warrior's word or something

DeepO

	11-04-2003 04:03									#306
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hope this works

quote: [00:42] /GhengisFarb/ Understood. [00:42] /GhengisFarb/ They have several closely packed cities from what we can observe. [00:43] /Aeson/ You have seen most everything of note of their terrain I'm thinking. Their land is very narrow. [00:43] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, it is much smaller that our own land on Bob and we are the runt kingdom on Bob. [00:44] /Aeson/ So I don't mind telling you that they have 5 cities (including Elipolis) N of the isthmus, and one S [00:44] /Aeson/ 3 are size 4 [00:44] /GhengisFarb/ i don't know about sizes other than Eli. [00:44] /Aeson/ A size 3 (Eli) [00:44] /Aeson/ and 2 more size 1 (they have been whipping) [00:45] /GhengisFarb/ I would say that they have commited themselves to taking GS out or else. [00:45] /Aeson/ We can guarantee it is 'or else' [00:46] /alva/ They did surpeise us, it was well set-up [00:46] /alva/ *surprise [00:46] /Aeson/ Yes, and almost at the worst possible time for us. [00:47] /GhengisFarb/ So no official acceptance on the Feudalism deal? [00:47] /Aeson/ But we can react very quickly. [00:47] /alva/ [00:47] /alva/ ah well, that's whats makes this game fun [00:47] /Aeson/ I'm afraid not. We need cash right now just to make sure we don't lose cities before we can build any Pikes [00:48] /GhengisFarb/ So there's no point in our sending the 100 gold now. [00:48] /Aeson/ No, it doesn't look like it [00:49] /Aeson/ We can finish our upgrades with this next turn's commerce, and finish rushing a Barracks we need hopefully. [00:50] /Aeson/ the 100 gold would only cover our losses at this point, we run a rather large deficit at 100% (republic does that) [00:50] /GhengisFarb/ This is really forcing us to adjust our strategy as we have to research it ourselves now. [00:50] /alva/ GF, why do you need Feud so fast? Vox is off BoB right, so you aren't in any imediate danger, are you? [00:51] /Aeson/ We can still have it in 4-5 turns, and definitely will meet our initial timeframe [00:51] /Aeson/ Our GA will start any turn now as well, that may shave off a turn or even two. [00:52] /GhengisFarb/ We aren't researching anything as we wanted to start on Chivalry when we got Feudalism and ditched 5 turns of Feudalism research because we thougth we could buy it from you. [00:53] /alva/ still can [00:53] /Aeson/ You still can buy it from us of course. Shiber's feelers about going full bore were to see if we could find a deal where we could cover our gold needs and get both of us Feudalism faster. While your offer is generous, it doesn't come nearly to that point now that Vox has declared war on us. [00:54] /Aeson/ Might we also strike some deal as to Chivalry? [00:54] /Aeson/ We will be in our GA, and likely can research it about twice as fast as any other team. [00:54] /Aeson/ (assuming Vox doesn't kill us ) [00:54] /alva/ Would you be interested in us NOT selling chivalry to ND [00:55] * alva kicks Aeson [00:55] /Aeson/ Hey... save it for Vox! [00:55] /alva/ lol [00:55] /GhengisFarb/ We now are looking at getting Feudalism not too far from when we would have researched it our selves. If you lose some cities to Vox that may put Feudalism even farther out that 3 turns. We either take a chance that you will finish it which is not a definite or research it ourselves. [00:56] /alva/ we won't loose 3 cities [00:56] /Aeson/ If we emptied our cities of units, Vox couldn't hurt our research capacity enough to delay our timing of Feudalism. [00:56] /Aeson/ Immortals just aren't that fast. [00:57] /Aeson/ They have too far to travel. [00:57] /Aeson/ And Vox has no Horses. [00:57] /GhengisFarb/ You hope you want, but Vox has the advantage of haveing preplaced their units before the conflict. There are a bunch that should enter your borders next turn. [00:57] /Aeson/ All vox can threaten in the next 6 turns is a size 4 city and a size 1 city, both relatively corrupt. [00:58] /Aeson/ They can't enter our borders next turn except by sea, it's as simple as that. [00:59] /Aeson/ We have enough warning from Grog to guarantee that they can't even do that this turn on the W coast either. [00:59] /GhengisFarb/ If you finished Feudalism asap then we coudl start researching Chivalry while you concentrated solely on the war. Then you have both war resources and a speedy Chivalry. [00:59] /Aeson/ We would need 200 gold up front. We have to upgrade our final few units. [00:59] /Aeson/ it's the only way we can go full bore. [01:00] /GhengisFarb/ If we gave you 200 gold up front will you guarantee us Feudalism in 2 turns? [01:01] /Aeson/ Like I said earlier, I think Shiber's math was off. It takes us 3 turns (I don't have access to the save to make sure) [01:02] /GhengisFarb/ Guaranteed to receive it in 3 turns and the right for our galleys to travel unmolested for 200 gold THIS turn, we will accept it before we send it. [01:02] /Aeson/ 200 gold up front would give us 100 gold after the losses, so it might be doable. [01:02] /Aeson/ It's a big deal, how long can you hold the save for? [01:03] /Aeson/ Or would be willing that is. [01:03] /GhengisFarb/ another 2 hours. [01:03] * nbarclay has joined #GoW [01:03] /Aeson/ Hello Nathan [01:03] /alva/ I'm sorry (havn't read everything yet), but wasn't 200 gold the price for delivery in 7 turns? [01:03] /nbarclay/ Hi everyoe [01:03] /Aeson/ Yes it was. [01:03] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, but we are paying it up front [01:04] /Aeson/ But we do gain by having enough gold for our upgrades and to get Pikes ASAP [01:04] /nbarclay/ We'll lose as much up front researching as we'll get up front from you. [01:04] /nbarclay/ Our ability to upgrade troops will be slowed down. [01:04] /GhengisFarb/ you can shift to partial research and upgrade units each turn starting the turn you finish Feudalism. [01:05] /Aeson/ GF, would you be willing to guarantee that your Galleys would never be within 8 tiles of each other in our waters? (should work with the delay of the second anyways) [01:05] /nbarclay/ If we try to deliver in three turns, we have to go pretty much full steam. [01:05] /GhengisFarb/ No two of our galleys within 8 tiles of each other in your water? [01:05] /alva/ How many galleys btw? [01:05] /GhengisFarb/ 2 [01:05] /nbarclay/ As I recall, we needed three turns at our highest viable research rate to finish. [01:06] /alva/ Why 2? [01:06] /GhengisFarb/ We were going to send one each way along your continents coast [01:07] /alva/ they are empty, are they not? [01:07] /Aeson/ The second galley will be scouting Vox's road for 5 turns. [01:07] /Aeson/ Sending us screenshots.

	11-04-2003 04:19									#307
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Guys, don't push GF too hard, it's going good it seems, but don't swarm him.

Further, I think the 200 gold up front might be worth it, but try to squeeze another 20 or so from it, they might do it. And tell them that no matter what, we will be researching chivalry our selves, and if we want to, can promise to be first in getting it. They don't seem to realize this, it seems...

Also, I think they assume they can research it themselves if we would trade it to everybody else (4th researcher cost). As a last resort, you could mention that if they would not buy it from us, and go for it themselves, we would probably have to lower our pirces to the rest, and delay getting it a little to be timed a 1-2 turn before them. They would lose more then can be gained by doing it themselves if RP would not buy it from them.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 04:26									#308
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: [01:07] /alva/ they are empty, are they not? [01:07] /Aeson/ The second galley will be scouting Vox's road for 5 turns. [01:07] /Aeson/ Sending us screenshots. [01:08] /GhengisFarb/ They have mobile units in case they locate a big island that they can't completely research from the shore. [01:08] /GhengisFarb/ but no settlers [01:08] /Aeson/ So 2 Horses in each? [01:08] /Aeson/ or just 1? [01:09] /GhengisFarb/ no, one in each but we will move both to the scout galley in case vox tries to sink the one by Eli. [01:09] /Aeson/ Ok. And you realize that we will kill those units if they land on GS's continent? [01:10] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, I don't think two Horsemen would last long in the heart of an opposing empires production base. [01:10] /Aeson/ I agree, not with our road network [01:11] /Aeson/ I feel it's only fair to warn you that you won't find any Galley crossings. [01:11] /Aeson/ Not S of the Vox border at least, can't say for sure up N [01:12] /GhengisFarb/ At least we will map out the area covered by known continents and be able to guess where other continents might lie. [01:12] /GhengisFarb/ We've already found one 18 tile island. [01:13] /Aeson/ We had heard that. Supposedly Lux was heading there before Vox destroyed them [01:13] /GhengisFarb/ We found it so I doubt they would have beat us to it. [01:14] /alva/ Wouldn't it make more sence to buy iron from us and use the galley for something else? [01:14] /Aeson/ It wasn't really GS' concern if Lux made it there or not, just that they left. [01:14] /Aeson/ You certainly had the jump on them. [01:14] /GhengisFarb/ But then we are at your mercy for Iron, if you decide to attack us you will just cut us off. [01:15] /alva/ Finding a small island right next to us, is going to have the same end result, isn't it. [01:16] /nbarclay/ Iron that can't be reached by pure coast tiles is worthless until Astronomy, so anything in our direction would be a long-term proposition. [01:16] /Aeson/ If they find such an Island, maybe not... cause it would be invisible [01:16] /nbarclay/ Any islands, that is. [01:16] /alva/ Or , you could just be nice to us... [01:16] /GhengisFarb/ You would never know of our secret Iron Island because you don't trade maps. [01:17] /nbarclay/ But if your ships can find it, couldn't one of ours? [01:17] /Aeson/ It's a failing on our part, we enjoy the dark [01:17] /alva/ not orange? [01:17] /GhengisFarb/ What ships, how many ships do you have? [01:18] /alva/ for the moment , as much as we need. [01:18] /nbarclay/ I'd rather not speak about current force levels. But I was really thinking more toward the future. [01:19] /nbarclay/ For the moment, any galleys we might have or get soon have higher priorities than exploration. [01:20] /nbarclay/ And no, we haven't been building up anything that would threaten Bob. [01:22] /GhengisFarb/ What the? [01:22] /Aeson/ One will need to be replacing your scout vessel by the time it moves off. [01:22] /Aeson/ You had mentioned Luxuries to Shiber right? [01:23] /Aeson/ Something wrong? [01:23] /GhengisFarb/ I think Panzer did [01:24] /Aeson/ The ROP would open up a sea route between us. I'm not sure how it works in MP though, do both need the map? [01:25] /GhengisFarb/ Did you see a red comment line in the dialogue? [01:25] /alva/ ? [01:26] /Aeson/ No I didn't [01:26] /Aeson/ What did it say? [01:27] /GhengisFarb/ Togas is chatting with me and I keep seeing comments in this dialogue. [01:27] /Aeson/ That is very weird [01:28] /GhengisFarb/ He's pissed because he thinks we are trying to get Feudalsim and he wants a trade embargo against GS [01:30] * Panzer32[GoW] has joined #GoW [01:30] /Panzer32[GoW]/ hello, Im back [01:30] /alva/ [01:30] /Panzer32[GoW]/ so whats up? [01:30] /alva/ Why the trade embargo? [01:30] /Aeson/ Welcome back Panzer [01:31] /Panzer32[GoW]/ trade embargo!?

Keeps getting better, we are almost at war with RP too now , me is guessing, real life is having some influence

	11-04-2003 04:35									#309
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You can't be serious... would this be true? GF certainly spills everything that comes into his mind, or is he just playing this?

Anyway, maybe it's time to tell them more about not getting too manipulated by RP. Maybe they figured that if we would be prepared, we would win instead of lose from this war, and see their mistake. Cool

DeepO

	11-04-2003 04:39									#310
	Tired of ads?

BTW, it seems my comment to RP has reached its destination... I did mention to them that possibly GoW was just selling the tech to them after NDA had expired. Oh boy, this is great

One thing though: why is GF chatting with Togas at the same moment as with us? Is he keeping them up to date? (Don't mention this in chat, just soemthing to keep in mind)

DeepO

	11-04-2003 04:45									#311
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

next

quote: [01:30] /Aeson/ Welcome back Panzer [01:31] /Panzer32[GoW]/ trade embargo!? [01:32] /Aeson/ Currently the negotiations stand at: [01:32] /GhengisFarb/ He wants you to be taken down a few notches. [01:32] /alva/ what for? [01:32] /Aeson/ GoW: 200g, scout Vox's road with galleys for 5 turns with second Galley [01:33] /Aeson/ GS: Sea ROP for 2 galleys not within 8 tiles of each other, Feudalism in 3 turns [01:33] /nbarclay/ Just so it's clear, we'll get Feudalism on the third turn after we crank up research. [01:34] /Panzer32[GoW]/ sounds reasonable. [01:34] /nbarclay/ And we could deliver it immediately after, assuming the deal is approved. [01:34] /GhengisFarb/ Agreed [01:35] /Aeson/ You will be transfering both units onto the first galley, are they stacked or will that take a turn? [01:36] /Aeson/ The NDA is still in effect as well. 10 turns was agreeable since you get it earlier? [01:36] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, both units onto the first galley, they aren't stacked [01:37] /GhengisFarb/ Yes 10 turn NDA [01:37] /Aeson/ We just want to know when to expect your expedition. [01:37] /Aeson/ To be clear, that is an NDA for GoW trading it, not for GS [01:37] /GhengisFarb/ They have already moved this turn [01:37] /Aeson/ And you are inbetween elipolis and Grog mountain? [01:37] /GhengisFarb/ Yes, GOW want trade Feudalism to anyone else for 10 turns [01:38] /GhengisFarb/ We are in the tile nw of Grog Mountain [01:39] /Aeson/ Ok, you would enter our territory (if it's still ours ) with 1 of the galleys in 2 turns. [01:39] /GhengisFarb/ I'll take your word on that, I don' t know where your territory begins right now. [01:40] /GhengisFarb/ brb phone call [01:40] /Aeson/ 4 tiles S, 1 SW will be the first GS tile you enter. [01:46] /Panzer32[GoW]/ what does NDA stand for? I always called it NTC (no trade clause) [01:46] /nbarclay/ Non-disclosure agreement. [01:46] /Aeson/ Probably an artifact of us developing Alphabet and Writing seperately [01:47] /Panzer32[GoW]/ so we can't tell the others that we have feudalism? [01:47] /Panzer32[GoW]/ probably [01:47] /alva/ and not sell either [01:48] /Aeson/ They will know that someone has it if they look at the research times. We would prefer if you didn't broadcast it of course [01:48] /nbarclay/ Especially no sell, trade, give, etc. [01:48] /Panzer32[GoW]/ well, if we don't tell them, they can't buy it [01:49] /Aeson/ Is there any interest in coordinating Chivalry research? [01:50] /Aeson/ If both of us research it we both get hurt, but if one of us feeds the other gold, then we both get it just as fast, and have more upgrade money between us

	11-04-2003 05:04									#312
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So, what's the verdict? I vote for this.. it gives us 2-4 pikes in or near Arashi before Vox can get to us, along with information about what Vox is sending.

It does tie up some extra troops to shadow GoW's boat, the main drawback.

	11-04-2003 05:06									#313
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You get my approval, Aeson. But be sure you have enough [edit: votes] before agreeing on it.

DeepO

BTW, you would make a fine diplomat, I think there are still ambassador positions open, if you're interested. Although Vox's ambassadorship most likely won't be needed for long

	11-04-2003 05:07									#314
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'd just like to add that GoW giving us 200g up front bodes well for their involvement with Vox. They wouldn't want to waste their 200g giving it to us to do somethign they could have done anyways (landed troops for us to kill).

	11-04-2003 05:09									#315
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I vote yes.

	11-04-2003 05:11									#316
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

going to the final stages

quote: [01:48] /Aeson/ They will know that someone has it if they look at the research times. We would prefer if you didn't broadcast it of course [01:48] /nbarclay/ Especially no sell, trade, give, etc. [01:48] /Panzer32[GoW]/ well, if we don't tell them, they can't buy it [01:49] /Aeson/ Is there any interest in coordinating Chivalry research? [01:50] /Aeson/ If both of us research it we both get hurt, but if one of us feeds the other gold, then we both get it just as fast, and have more upgrade money between us [01:51] /GhengisFarb/ back [01:52] /Panzer32[GoW]/ would GS or GoW do the researching? [01:53] /GhengisFarb/ We are researching Chivalry, it gives us our UU and we want to ensure have the best chance to get it before ND. [01:53] /nbarclay/ You're sure you can beat ND to it? [01:54] /nbarclay/ Keep in mind that they're in Republic, if I remember right. [01:54] /nbarclay/ And I don't think you are yet. [01:54] /GhengisFarb/ No offense, but this is too critical a tech for us to depend on another team. We hope to be in Republic by then [01:54] /Aeson/ Either way we do save time and money. If we want more money between us, GoW can do the research, if we want it sooner, GS [01:54] /alva/ they are (nd-/rep) [01:55] /nbarclay/ Just to be clear, my only concern is trying to figure out the best way to get it for both teams. [01:55] /alva/ Imagine having chivalry a couple of tursn sooner then ND... [01:55] /nbarclay/ On one hand, having us research it would involve some risk if Vox hurts us too badly. [01:56] /nbarclay/ On the other, we are already in Republic, and have an excellent research rate when we aren't too busy upgrading and such. [01:56] /GhengisFarb/ Once we get Feudalism it would make sense for you to concentrate on building and rushing forces to win the war. [01:57] /Aeson/ And will be in our GA [01:57] /Aeson/ But that will just mean more upgrades for us [01:57] /Aeson/ I'm fine either way. [01:57] /alva/ Perhaps GoW can open a second front on VoX? [01:58] /GhengisFarb/ I would prefer not to as we would have nothing to gain, I don't think you would want us to keep the cities we took on your continent? [01:58] /Aeson/ No, Vox's territory will make the perfect FP area for us. [01:58] /alva/ Take away a few galleys maybe? [01:58] /Aeson/ And the close times are going to be the next 10 turns, after that Vox hasn't a chance. [01:59] /GhengisFarb/ And we don't want to weaken our defenses versus ND. [01:59] /nbarclay/ I can understand your concerns about ND quite well. [02:00] /GhengisFarb/ I think our galleys are more useful as neutral observers than combatants. As long as we are neutral Vox doesn't have to know we are observing for your team. [02:00] /GhengisFarb/ Unless we sit there in one spot for awhile, then it would be pretty obvious. [02:01] /Aeson/ Feudalism and Chivalry are both cost 32. If we give the 200 g back halfway through your Chivalry research will that be an acceptable trade? We would have the NDA of course, this time that GoW can trade and GS can't. [02:01] /alva/ Didn't GoW offically go to war on the publi forum thread? [02:02] /Aeson/ I agree, as long as we know how many units vox is sending we can position our forces best. [02:03] /Aeson/ And galley landings (of the sort vox can put together) are much easier to kill than by land stacks... we always get the first shot [02:04] /nbarclay/ Another possibility would be a trade of Chivalry for something we research at the same time. [02:06] /nbarclay/ But come to think of it, if we pump gold into GoW, that would speed up their research and hence help them get Chivalry faster for both of us. [02:06] /GhengisFarb/ The counter 200 trade would work. We did go to war the first time they landed but made peace for their city. We never went to war the second time, our diplo options wouldn't let us declare war and their units were gone by the time our Horsemen got to them [02:07] /GhengisFarb/ Those galleys with Horsemen were looking for a chance to due some pillaging to hopefully make Vox pull back but then Vox attacked you instead and so we decided to use them to scout. [02:08] * Aeson nods [02:09] /GhengisFarb/ We never intended to take over Vox land just repulse them off of Bob. [02:09] /Aeson/ We intend to wipe them out. [02:10] /GhengisFarb/ Repulse them off Little Bob, pretty much the same we were going to do, they just aren' t anywhere else but Little Bob [02:10] /Aeson/ Aye. [02:10] /GhengisFarb/ Unless they got an island somewhere.......... [02:11] /nbarclay/ Just what I was thinking. [02:11] /nbarclay/ They might actually survive for a while that way. [02:11] /alva/ they will, right beside lux [02:11] /nbarclay/ Until someone decides killing them is worth the trouble. [02:11] /GhengisFarb/ If we find a Vox island we'll let you know [02:12] /nbarclay/ Thanks, although we may just view the island as the penal colony they were confined to for their crimes. [02:12] /alva/ squid island [02:13] /GhengisFarb/ Thats what Nukes are for. [02:13] /alva/ [02:13] /GhengisFarb/ the Orkin 5000 nuclear device [02:14] /Panzer32[GoW]/ Nuclear riders!!!

	11-04-2003 05:14									#317
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

hmmm, loook at the last lines, don't know if it was deliberate, but still..

quote: [02:14] /Panzer32[GoW]/ Nuclear riders!!! [02:16] /Aeson/ How long left on those 2 hours? [02:16] /GhengisFarb/ So is this a done deal? [02:17] /Aeson/ It needs to be ratified by the team. I think it will pass. What do you think Nathan? [02:17] /Aeson/ And alva? [02:18] /alva/ can someone make the offer clear? Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings [02:18] /GhengisFarb/ I will send the 200 gold, if it doesn't pass then simply don't accept the gold. [02:18] /alva/ [02:18] /alva/ [02:19] /GhengisFarb/ Is 200 gold worth forcing us to side with Togas and Vox? Well? Is it? Punk? (Clint Eastwood voice) [02:19] /Aeson/ haha [02:19] /nbarclay/ Agreed on not accepting the gold if we don't ratify the deal. [02:20] /alva/ [02:20] /Aeson/ That sounds good. 200 gold obviously isn't worth the price of our honor. We look forward to proving it. [02:20] /GhengisFarb/ I think this leaves us pumping money into GS and Roleplay pumping money into Vox, which is kinda weird. [02:21] /Aeson/ Interesting.

	11-04-2003 05:17									#318
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'll throw my yes vote in for that deal.

	11-04-2003 05:17									#319
	Inflate your Upload Space

Counter deal seems ok, chivalry for 200 gold. However in that case we need a guarantee that they will be the first to get it, otherwise the price should lower if ND gets it first.

And ask for an ETA, we can wait, but there's no reason to wait 20 turns

DeepO

	11-04-2003 05:19									#320
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That last comment: RP is most likely paying Vox for monotheism, and maybe even republic as well in gpt. Well... they have chosen the wrong horse to bet on

DeepO

	11-04-2003 05:26									#321
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually, paying Vox in gpt right about now could be an excellent bargain from a purely financial perspective.

	11-04-2003 05:36									#322
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm ok with it, but I did forget something, we should have asked for a permanent NDA owards selling to VOX (just in case we can't cut their iron and even then, if either ND or RP is behind this, they could still sell/give iron to vox)
-
I'm still not convinced, GoW isn't in on it.
To me that makes the most sence, if we take out Vox, our best bet on invading, would be the same way Vox tried to go and we have plenty of iron.

	11-04-2003 05:38									#323
	Remove this text

Alva, if you are sending the log: don't forget to edit the private messages out

Vox NDA: could be something to have asked for, but it doesn't matter. Around that time, we're close to knights.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 05:40									#324
	Got spare money?

This gives us 13 turns before we need to cut off vox's Iron.

Honestly I can't see this as a backstab from GoW. They are giving us 200g up front, with no guarantee they get Feudalism, other than our good word.

Mainly I just want to see what Vox is sending in that stack... any wagers? I'll say 4 Spears and 10 Immortals...

	11-04-2003 05:44									#325
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I say closer to 20 units in total.

As to the deal, if this gets approved by the team (so far it looks like it will), we should start offering it to other teams as well. If they don't bite immediately (ND will, the others might stall a bit) it's okay. However, are we going to ask for 10 turns NDA, under the pretense that Vox would otherwise be able to get it before becoming extinct?

DeepO

	11-04-2003 05:46									#326
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Would GoW view it as a betrayal if we turned around and sold to ND at the same time as to them?

	11-04-2003 05:48									#327
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Was anything said about that? no... plus they even mentioned that we would be offering it to other teams in those 10 turns.

Plus, GoW will be the first to get it: they will get it from us as a gift, accepted already. While ND gets it as a deal, in which they first have to offer their side of the bargain, getting the tech 1 turn later.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 05:48									#328
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I think the final date on the NDA should be relatively stable. We should be able to take out the Iron in the 13 turns. That's 9 turns of EotS at 30 shields per turn... another 4 units from Bolderberg and Tornado, our 'navy', and probably 7 units from Tempest. I think we can also get another 4-5 units out of Arashi if we can hold it.

	11-04-2003 05:50									#329
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Forgot that we will get 9 units out of Hurricane as well.

	11-04-2003 05:53									#330
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Kind of small mistake, maybe we should build the Collosus in Hurricane anyway, just to make it more fun to play

DeepO