13-05-2003 22:54									#181
	Tired of ads?

We have already made clear to Lego that delaying the deal after the NDA on Feudalism in order to buy it from GoW for example, will not be looked favorably by us, to say the least. I hope they get the picture, and that they'll see the future benefits of dealing with us.

Some persuasion effort might do some good, though- telling them we're starting to beat some **** out of Vox and that we'll soon be able to research ourselves could possibly help...

Let's hope they won't turn us down.

	14-05-2003 11:03									#182
	Tired of ads?

In our attempts to get some more value out of Feudalism, should we ask RP about some deal involving Feudalism and Engineering?
I know they've given us a no regarding Feudalism, but I think it's worth a shot.

Btw, where's the RP comments thread? Has it dropped off of the 3rd page and died?

	15-05-2003 21:42									#183
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sorry guys, I have very little time to spend on the Net the past few days, and I fear it won't improve soon. Zeit, if there is an urgent message that needs to be sent to Legoland, could you take care of it please? Normally, I should be back on Sunday, maybe even Saturday... but I don't know how much time I can invest next week. It's a busy period, both at work and personally...

DeepO

	15-05-2003 22:57									#184
	Get a bigger avatar today!

That's a bit of a problem for me, taking care of GoW and someone else, but for this week, i'll try.

We should check with Lego as to what are they thinking about Theology and Feudalism...
Do we know if they have it or not?

	15-05-2003 23:00									#185
	Put an end to popups!

If noone objects, I will see if I can word up a letter to Lego when I get back from walking my dog (yes, the one in the avatar ).

	29-05-2003 15:45									#186
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Bump.


Well, it seems like our "friends" from Legoland don't give a damn about our offers nor about our past talks, as they have bought Feudalism from GoW probably. I suggest we tell them we're not satisfied with their actions (in a polite manner, of course), since it does seem to affect them- if my memory serves me well, they did mention a couple of times they don't want to alienate RP.
Perhaps they wouldn't want to alienate us either (I hope...) so they might think about making a decent offer.

So much for the prospect of long term relationship with Lego...

Any ideas?

	29-05-2003 16:19									#187
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I agree. A message to Lego with a harsh tone is in order.

	30-05-2003 17:14									#188
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How about this?

quote: Respected vondrack of Legoland. I have not recieved word from you regarding the proposal I had sent you, but I did get an answer from looking at the save file. Your decision to buy Feudalism from another source was quite disappointing for the team and I. The team as a whole expected Lego to acquire the tech from us, as part of a Theology deal, as was discussed a while ago in a chat we've had. We saw no reason to suspect you'd change your mind- that is not to say we did not expect the possibility of such development, which is also why I have sent you the last proposal, but I had assumed that we would at least recieve a refusal in the diplomatic channel, and not have to find out about it ourselves. Sincerely Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

Edit1: As per Vulture's request, I've clarified that last sentence.

	30-05-2003 17:24									#189
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quote: That is not to say we did not expect the possibility of such event, and that is also why I have sent the last proposal.

I'd reword this bit, since it isn't obvious to me exactly what you mean. Agree on the tone and content though - just want a bit more clarity in this sentence.

	30-05-2003 17:40									#190
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Agree on the message, but it is already harsher then what I would send. Lego hasn't been nice to us lately, and I agree we should let them know. However, we can't alienate them by being to self-rightous.

DeepO

	30-05-2003 17:51									#191
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Good to see you post again DeepO! It's been a while

I don't think it is that harsh. I won't make it any more stern of course. The length of such message is also important- the shorter it is, the better. It lets them wonder themselves what will be the consequences (not that I'm suggesting anything, yet). The next messag from Lego will probably be an apology, at least for not getting back to us. That will be seen as a chance for us to climb down from our self-righteousness tree, and we could move on to the Theology negotiations, if that's the team's desire. Other than that, I don't think we'll see some offer for compensation or anything- we actually don't deserve anything beyond an apology, as far as I see this.

What could happen, is that Lego will be more cautious not to step on our toes again, how damaging this message could be to our relations- I don't think that it's that much. After all, it would seem obvious that we're upset over this.

	30-05-2003 17:56									#192
	Tired of ads?

I agree with Zeit on two things:
1. It is not too harsh. The tone is just right.
2. I am glad to see DeepO back too.

	31-05-2003 21:59									#193
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Okay, we've got vondrack's reply.

As expected, it included an apology, as well as an offer (?) for Theology, or at least somewhere to start negotiations from.

What we didn't expect was such an informative message, telling us that Feudalism was gifted to Lego (in exchange to what? or in what interest?), and that they're aiming for the Sistine Chapel.

I don't know if that means they're not building the Colossus, or if it changes our mind about building the wonder.

As for their offer- what do you say, are we about to give up the wonder for the tech? I think Lego will be ahead of us anyway unless we start now with full steam (with a prebuild, of course), but I think we could get more out of this as a discount for Theology.

Did we have any plans to build the SC?

	31-05-2003 22:11									#194
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Perhaps Lego fears that we might use a leader to build the Sistine.

IIRC Nathan and several others objected to building the Sistine in several threads revolving around wonder construction. I agree with that POV - the Sistine is not worth it in this kind of game.
We have to pretend that we're really giving up something, though. I suggest the following course of action:
First, we wait a few days to create the impression that there's some kind of heated discussion over this in our forum. Then, we reply to Lego, telling them that we have decided that we are willing to give up on building the Sistine, if they can come up with a "break-the-market" price for Theology. We let them offer a price, and if it's good, we reply and say that we accept the deal, but we'd like to add another clause, stating that Lego may not build the Colossus. Hopefully, we will not hear any objections (whereas if we will, we can just drop this demand, realizing that Lego must be prebuilding the Colossus and we probably can't beat them to it) and the deal would be carried out.

What do you think?

	04-06-2003 04:15									#195
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm not certain on the wonder, I don't like being limited like that.

However, I thought about something else: Am I right in thinking that with the Lighthouse, we can trade with Lego, as it let's us traverse sea tiles? I saw conflicting reports here last time I asked, and I'm certainly not sure myself...

The thing is: we have 2 extra luxs to trade to them, they have 1. A 1 on 1 trade seems certainly needed, for the other, we can at the very least ask the cost of rushing a harbor back from them, maybe even added with a discount on Theo. We are in a monopoly position here, but if we ask them if they want 2 luxs, they will see us more as saviours if we keep the price decent. They won't be able to acquire luxs from someone else for at least another 50 turns, this has to create possible diplo options.

DeepO

	04-06-2003 05:03									#196
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Sistene is close to worthless on Chieftain happiness levels, I'd have no qualms about getting something for not building it, as we shouldn't build it in any case. A feeler about whether they'd trade Sistene for the Collosus would be great. If they aren't building the Collosus they'd most likely agree and we still might have a shot at it. If Lego is building it, they definitely won't agree. Gives us an idea of where they are headed at least.

	04-06-2003 05:17									#197
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Agree... a feeler for Collosus would be great. But what happens if by pure luck we gain a couple of leaders we can't use? The 'risk' might be small, but still... it doesn't look like we'll have other (good) wonders to build soon, we might need to settle for the Sistine just to limit possible prebuilds. What if Lego gets a guarantee from all teams on Sistine, and can use it as a prebuild till the end of the game? At the very least, there should be a time limitation on their exclusivity

DeepO

	04-06-2003 07:10									#198
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We have at least 4 good options for Leaders in the next 10-20 turns. FP, Army, Collosus (probably be gone soon), and/or saving one for Leo's, Copernicus or JS Bach's. Then Smith and Newton is just another few turns away.

I don't think we have to worry about running out of things to do with our Leaders for quite some time.

	04-06-2003 08:35									#199
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HE, as well.

	04-06-2003 10:27									#200
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Army: does everyone agree that if we get one, we need to fill it with knights or mustketmen? Both units are still a long way off, it seems, so an army will have to wait unfilled until these units become available. By then, we may get another leader and then regret not having used the previous one for a wonder or the FP.
If we get a leader in this or the next few turns, I'd rather not use it for an army.

Lego: I'm definitely for sending a feeler.
If we find out that Lego aren't competing with us for the Colossus, that leaves two possible competitors: GoW (with a palace prebuild in one of their coastal cities) and ND (with a palace prebuild); RP couldn't have used a palace prebuild since they've just moved their palace (they can start now though, but they don't have any serious production in any of their coastal cities).

	04-06-2003 12:13									#201
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Woah! With a non militaristic civ, one should not go round planning on leaders. I supported Sun Tzu's, but only because our very lives hung in the balance.

The next leader is an army, one that wins an easy combat with a MedInf loaded... followed by the Heroic Epic... if we want to count on any kind of leader stream in future. That is of course if we see another leader in this entire game...

	05-06-2003 04:36									#202
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Hmm... you're right. So giving Sistine isn't that much of a deal.

Anyone knows by heart if it is commercial, and would trigger their GA?

DeepO

	05-06-2003 05:07									#203
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sistene is Religious only.

	06-06-2003 14:21									#204
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On the leader question (although it doesn't belong here, but anyway):

- We should first get a leader and then decide what to do with him
- My opinion depends on our further success in warfare
- If we keep Inchon (which I hope we will) and succeed to widen that foothold, a FP in Inchon or Elipolis would probably be the best option
- If not, an Army of MIs will do best to initiate the HE and later the MilAc building, and then to be a nutcracker when taking Elipolis.

	14-06-2003 11:29									#205
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I have seen the enemy, and the enemy is a little plastic block.

-Arrian

	14-06-2003 11:39									#206
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Yes. It seems they have been trying to put bars through our spokes. I'm sure they feel clever, for it was a good move from their POV.

Now, what to do about it?

	14-06-2003 11:42									#207
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Couple of possibilities:

1) Nothing until we see an opening. Safe route, but then again there may never be an opening.

2) Work out something with GoW to go hit them, possibly coordinating with ND to make sure GoW doesn't get backstabbed (ND does a NAP, and agrees to hold off RP if they get uppity). This is hard as hell to do, but maybe we could sell it by convincing them that Lego is the real threat (some already realize this) and they have got to be disrupted ASAP.

-Arrian

	14-06-2003 11:50									#208
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I think Lego's coastal map is going to turn some heads. We need to wait in the weeds for a bit. Maybe give things a push now and then.

	14-06-2003 17:18									#209
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What the heck are you guys talking about?

	14-06-2003 21:29									#210
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Theseus,

It has become clear to NYE and I that Legoland are the ones who contracted GoW to land units in support of Vox. THEY are the puppetmasters here, not RP.

-Arrian