15-07-2003 11:33									#181
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One thing I've always wondered is if any of the CTP2 team ever tried any Mods of ours. Hearing their thoughts on what we as modders did would be fantastic.

	15-07-2003 11:39									#182
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Another person I thought of who might be interested in a gander at the source is Vel.

Locutus:
You still got his email addy? Might be worth a short "Just letting you know...."

	15-07-2003 11:39									#183
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Excellent news, Ogre . I think some beer is in place .

Stripping comments out, that's sad and funny. Funny, because all sources I have seen thus far are with comments - although I can understand what kind of remarks there may be . On the sad side, if ALL comments are out, then understanding the code is going to be real hard, especially the most messed up parts.

However... it means that they FOUND the source. Excellent news, and I am now really looking forward .

	15-07-2003 11:41									#184
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Dale - I'll mail Vel, keeping in touch with him...

	15-07-2003 13:47									#185
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That will teach me to not go on apolyton for days thank you Ogre
By the way i now a bit of c++ but have no experience with games.

	15-07-2003 16:29									#186
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*perks*

did someone mention C++ source code for CtP2? W00t!

I've been on hiatus from Poly/Catapult since work went insane, and I got called to a branch office.

Hi

Last edited by MrBaggins on 15-07-2003 at 17:20

	15-07-2003 17:03									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Ogre The annoying part is that the person I've talked to would like all the comments stripped from the code to avoid releasing anything that might hurt Activision's image (most of the concern there is over potential remarks re Microprose and Avalon Hill left over from when it was Civilization: Call to Power) or anyone's personal feelings.

Hello,

Could they not hire an "appointed commentator" with acces to the commented source files and responsibility of releasing only tech comment when required ? He, I'm even willing to do that job (swiss blood side-effect)

If not, I'm waiting for the source anyway. Anyone care to open a Sourceforge project ?

	15-07-2003 18:14									#188
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THAT is the best news I've heard in many moons! OUTSTANDING, Ogre! And let me add my voice to the chorus of "thank yous" for your efforts! It will truly be a banner day if we can get the source released.....CTP2 is already heads and shoulders above Civ3, and with the talented folks here who are still making mods and improvements able to really delve into it....well, let's just say I don't see that there'll be much need for Civ4....

-=Vel=-
And thank you, Solver, for pointing this thread out to me!

	15-07-2003 19:15									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Dale One thing I've always wondered is if any of the CTP2 team ever tried any Mods of ours. Hearing their thoughts on what we as modders did would be fantastic.

Yes this is something I always wondered, too.

Sad to hear this about the comments, but we have to respect this concern. Now we know another reason why companies don't like to release code.

-Martin

	16-07-2003 13:32									#190
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This is an interesting development. Keep up the momentum and let's see how it pans out.

	18-07-2003 14:39									#191
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Hello again Mr Baggins

I think the points that Mr Ogre and Pyaray make are worth thinking on before we get too excited though. IF there are big legal issues to releasing the code as it is, then we need to somehow let someone at Activision know we(as a community?) are more than willing to help out with any of the dull foot work.....
As far as i can tell the main problem was that the game was released too soon - it needed more testing and more work done on it. The basic design and game-play are IMHO second to none in the genre. It just played like a dog in the single player game because of the almost non-aggresive AI.
The Modders have shown what can be done on that score.
CTP2 is still around on budget so it may not make millions but the intrest in the general civ/apolyton scene could certainly be kindled with people like Vel, Mr Ogre and Pyaray around to persuade the CTP2 nay-sayers that have gotten used to the rest of us CTP2 regulars

COME ON SOMEONE AT ACTIVISION.... your our only hope

	18-07-2003 15:21									#192
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What I want to know now is what ells is there that activision can gives without waiting for the source code to be legalized.

I know to at least two units not included in the main ctp1 game and I would like to see these relished if at least possible after all it was graphics in the first place, which made me start the thread off. For an example look at my avatar.

I just hope we get both source code for ctp and ctp2 this way we can take some good ideas from ctp one and use.

And as an total biased person to activision I would volunteer my services to de comment the code. :d

	18-07-2003 21:28									#193
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A good point is... us having the source could help attract people to CtP2. many have said that it's a good game potentially, but lacks due to bugs, terrible AI and whatnot. Mods have fixed many of these problems... but, obviously, with the source we could do anything.

And yeah, we are of course glad to help with any legal issues that arise.

	19-07-2003 04:10									#194
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Should we start a cheer squad for Activision?

C'mon Activision, Rah, Rah, Rah, or something?

	20-07-2003 01:15									#195
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Though I will try not to get my hopes up too much, this kind of response is really promising. I'm used to deciphering uncommented code, albeit my own code...

Many thanks again to all those who have made and are making an effort, and didn't just sit by and say "Hey, that's a good idea" like I did .

	20-07-2003 02:14									#196
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After seeing what is being done in Candle'Bre and Empire, I understand the desire to get our hands on the code, but my question is - what exactly can be accomplished with the code that goes above and beyond txtfile alts and SLIC additions? Perhaps the coding experts here can fill us computer semi-literates in with the dreams of what can be done.

Small sidenote - I'm currently playing 'Chariots of War'. It feels like 'CTP2 Cradle' on steroids. In fact, CoW uses a lot of stuff from CTP2, with a more believable resource system than civ3, and a dash of EU2 thrown in on the side.

And you thought 'Frenzy' caused headaches...

	20-07-2003 02:39									#197
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To answer the question about the interest of having the source code of CTP2 over simply SLIC'ing new features into CTP2 :
- core debugging. there are things that cannot be corrected with a SLIC.
- speed.
- integration : creating a complete binary plug-in interface (SLIC on steroid)
- extention : adding new features in the SLIC interpreter.
- new features, etc.

	20-07-2003 04:14									#198
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ambitious.
I think first of all we attempt to get rid of the 200-sprite limit, and some of the known bugs, like the infinite rush-buy thing that killed the MP ladders, the scenario-loading bug etc.

	20-07-2003 05:03									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat ambitious. I think first of all we attempt to get rid of the 200-sprite limit, and some of the known bugs, like the infinite rush-buy thing that killed the MP ladders, the scenario-loading bug etc.

Oh yes, that first

Bug Hunting. A new Civilisation Feat.

	20-07-2003 09:07									#200
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Things I'd add to the list of "first-ups":

- Sea city sprite bug
- Elliminate the limits on adding things (not just sprites)
- A built in Moddir utility (don't need to rely on modswapper)
- Make the AI be able to build a number of units from each build list section as opposed to only building the latest available thing (will enable the AI to build mixed stacks)
- Fix the AI's air useage
- Fix the AI's naval useage (including marine invasions)
- Make the AI's more nuclear aware

That's what I'd like to see.

	20-07-2003 09:08									#201
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Oh, and be able to find out what the hell those non-working Slic commands are and making them work!

	20-07-2003 12:37									#202
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If you look at CTP2 it actually contains practically all the elements available in nearly every game. eg, special units including invisible ones, production, science, food, exploration etc. It has a huge variety and a combat system that actually involves tactics.

Just about every TBS game I have played has some but not all the elements of CTP2. Some have focussed in more detail on some aspects but none cover the range of elements that CTP2 has.

If we could fix those bugs mentioned and expand the sprite limit and other suggested things, it could be the base for the ultimate civ game. Even now you can create involved, stand alone scenarios and mods that feel like a new game.

C'mon Activision, rah, rah, rah.

	20-07-2003 14:49									#203
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There is also the possibility for Activision to publish a CTP3 box with printed doc based upon the work of the communauty I'd like to see that very much...

	20-07-2003 16:01									#204
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Isn't there a limit that limits the wonders to 64 or is that city improvements?

	20-07-2003 17:15									#205
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quote: Originally posted by ískallin Isn't there a limit that limits the wonders to 64 or is that city improvements?

Both.

Other things that need doing quickly:

- Fix PBEM
- Add human-human diplomacy in PBEM/Hotseat
- Fix the scenario support (that's closely linked with adding mod support, of course)

	20-07-2003 20:34									#206
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Other things to do:

- Fix infinite rush build bug
- Fix sea city sprite bug
- Fix boni of undersea tunnels for sea units bug
- Fix goods.txt
- Fix pillage neutral tileimprovement bug

- Increase the maximum numbers of sprites that can be used in the game.

Well the last one should be find easily, it is reproduceable under clear circumstances. Also the infinite build bug needs to be fixed as soon as possible, I think disabling the according buttons while it is not your turn should be the solution that can be done quickly.

And there is a lot of more stuff that needs to be fixed and should be implemented.

-Martin

	20-07-2003 21:58									#207
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maybe we would gain a better understanding of all the game balance issues, like pollution and the amount of gold produced late game. I know some stuff has been done through modding the text files, but if some knowlegable types could get right to the core of the problems it would help make playtesting/balanceing much easier.
Maybe the likes of Mr Ogre, Pyaray and Miss 'lemur' herself(st_swithen) would lend a hand to point the modders in the right direction?
I get the feeling that CTP was in some ways a labour of love and it would be nice to get the chance to 'fix it' and show all civ fans what they have been missing.

	21-07-2003 04:55									#208
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wow this is exciting news (I wont say good cause im not sure yet)

but just imagine...... anyway

Fix AI not being able to effectivly use Naval attack etc
Enable all that beta version advanced diplomacy and stuff (even if it wasnt finished)

EDIT: Where is my avatar ?

Last edited by SMIFFGIG on 21-07-2003 at 05:10

	21-07-2003 05:20									#209
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Avatars have been removed while the site crashes daily. Once it's stopped, they may return.

	21-07-2003 07:58									#210
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Maybe the likes of Mr Ogre, Pyaray and Miss 'lemur' herself(st_swithen) would lend a hand to point the modders in the right direction?

I would be happy to help when I have free time. I don't have much free time, but I'll visit and help when I can (assuming of course this actually does happen.)

Pyaray