13-04-2003 23:26									#121
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I moved one of our vet WCs from the east coast 4 to check. No additional Voxian forces in sight.

I'm starting to think we probably want to move the elite back to Arashi and leave a vet for patrol in the east after all. That way we can do a 4-6 move pair each turn so one unit can check both the coast and the mountains.

	13-04-2003 23:27									#122
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Thanks Nathan. Damn, that's hard... A (very dear) friend of mine from Florida just had this.

	13-04-2003 23:29									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Sun Tzu's will be too late to help us in EotS. We need the barracks there to stop Vox's invasion. 1 turn sooner means 1 extra Pike/Horse, which is worth 44g IMO.

Not a pike or horse; we can't both finish our tile improvements and add enough workers to bring EotS up to size 12 next turn (unless I'm misremembering how many we need). But a WC or a start on a medieval infantry.

	13-04-2003 23:33									#124
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We can do it if we don't add the worker this turn... but you're right, a WC now and then a few extra turns of the food deficit is probably more valuable to us than a Horse or Pike right now.

	13-04-2003 23:39									#125
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We have a choice about whether we want to expose our WCs to a possible attack by a Voxian spearman. If we move onto the road, Vox's veteran spearman can attack. Or we can move 4-2 from their previous location and end up beside the road instead of on it. Since moving into Arashi across the river costs two movement points, staying off the road doesn't cost us anything in terms of how long it takes to get into Arashi. But I'd just as soon let the spear take his shot if he wants to - our chance of retreating should put the odds squarely in our favor.

	13-04-2003 23:42									#126
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quote: Originally posted by alva It's really a pity, as they certainly debated on wether to switch goverments or not...

I'm actually rather pleased with the way that the game turned out government-wise. Lego could have switched to Republic over 10 turns ago, but they didn't, to reach the Pyramids faster - but then again, they also handicapped themselves for more than 10 turns during which they could have produced much more, and now their period of anarchy is going to be more painful because they've grown since.
I expected ND and RP to use their religious trait and switch to Republic immediately. ND did switch immediately, and so did RP, but the latter switched to Monarchy - which means no cool commerce bonuses for them.
GoW is still in Despotism, doing I-don't-know-what, and Vox are burning through their own GA in Despotism.
Almost everyone (well, everyone except for us and ND) are using the government techs in less than optimal ways, sometimes far less than optimal. Nice.

	13-04-2003 23:45									#127
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quote: Thanks Nathan. Damn, that's hard... A (very dear) friend of mine from Florida just had this.

Sorry to hear that Sir Ralph, is your friend alright now?

	14-04-2003 00:01									#128
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay One sword on the mountain should be enough to keep Vox's spearmen from attacking, and would avoid tipping our hand about what swordsmen we really have in the area. By the way, until more forces than Vox has ready now get in position to attack, I'd be tempted to garrison the mountain with just two pikes and a sword and keep the other pike in Arashi. With a little luck, if we keep Vox from seeing our medieval infantry, they won't have a clue we have them until we strike - and even then, Vox might end up just knowing a bunch of their units died, not what killed them. But if we put all three pikes on the mountain, they'll see that our lead defender in Arashi is a medieval infantry.

Excellent thinking... this should be GS policy, i.e. try to hide our best units in towns / cities.

	14-04-2003 00:02									#129
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RP is using Monarchy because Spain was a monarchy in the real world. They're handicapping themselves a bit in the game in order to stay in character.

GoW sounded like they were planning to switch to Republic any time now. They were talking as if they wanted to do their research on Chivalry as a republic.

Actually, Vox probably made the right choice staying in Despotism. Their army is big enough relative to their city sizes that they'd lose more in unit upkeep than they'd gain in gold under Republic, and the ability to pop rush in Dissidentville goes a long way toward making up the shields they're losing. Add to that a three-turn dealy switching to Republic, during which we would be producing things and they wouldn't, and it's hard to make a case that staying in Despotism was a bad move for them if they wanted to use the temporary superiority that unit upgrades gives them to attack us. I think it comes under the heading of, "Making the best of a bad situation."

	14-04-2003 00:02									#130
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quote: Sorry to hear that Sir Ralph, is your friend alright now?

No, although I hope so much for her. The seizure had a reason much worse than epilepsy. I don't believe in God, but for her I will pray. Sorry for posting this mess in this thread. I didn't want to spoil your fun.

Lets go ahead, and let's get rid of Vox. Let's do it for my friend!

	14-04-2003 00:05									#131
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Another possible trick if we do need all three pikes on the mountain, although it would cost us a little offensive punch, would be to leave our vet swordsman a swordsman but upgrade our regulars. That way the vet swordsman would be showing in the city and the regular medieval infantry would remain hidden. That might or might not be worth the loss of striking power, depending on what Vox has headed for us.

	14-04-2003 00:10									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph No, although I hope so much for her. The seizure had a reason much worse than epilepsy. I don't believe in God, but for her I will pray. Sorry for posting this mess in this thread. I didn't want to spoil your fun.

I'm glad we could be of help in providing information, although I'm very sorry about its being needed. I'll be praying for her too.

Nathan

	14-04-2003 00:39									#133
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Do we want to have both our galleys go up the east (right) coast, both go up the west (left) coast, or one up each? I'd like to keep them together for mutual protection.

Also, do we have a decision on adding a worker to EotS this turn and short rushing the barracks? And is it okay to move one vet WC and our wounded elite onto the road, leaving the other vet to patrol the area?

	14-04-2003 00:50									#134
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay RP is using Monarchy because Spain was a monarchy in the real world. They're handicapping themselves a bit in the game in order to stay in character.

If I get a chance, I'll ask an RPer how seriously they take Role Playing (not Togas though, he'll get suspicious). With a little luck we might get an answer that would give us some insight.

quote: Actually, Vox probably made the right choice staying in Despotism. Their army is big enough relative to their city sizes that they'd lose more in unit upkeep than they'd gain in gold under Republic, and the ability to pop rush in Dissidentville goes a long way toward making up the shields they're losing. Add to that a three-turn dealy switching to Republic, during which we would be producing things and they wouldn't, and it's hard to make a case that staying in Despotism was a bad move for them if they wanted to use the temporary superiority that unit upgrades gives them to attack us. I think it comes under the heading of, "Making the best of a bad situation."

I think you're right.
Still, it makes good material for trash-talking (Ha ha! You're wasting your GA in Despotism! ).

	14-04-2003 00:54									#135
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quote: but then again, they also handicapped themselves for more than 10 turns during which they could have produced much more, and now their period of anarchy is going to be more painful because they've grown since.

ASAIK, in chieftain, transitions are always 3 turns.
Deity has a minimum of 5 and max of 8, and IIRC, civ size has nothing to do with the amount of anarchy turns as it did in civ 2.

quote: RP is using Monarchy because Spain was a monarchy in the real world.

Although they probably did do it as to stay in caracter, the more MP turns I've played, the more I start to think that monarchy isn't all that bad for MP afterall.
When I first found out, there is no WW in MP, I immediately dismissed it as did probably did averyone else, but seeing the amount of units beeing build and the marshal Law (3), makes it a better goverment then I first thought .
-

Sir Ralph, be sure to give our best whishes to your friend

	14-04-2003 01:03									#136
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Chat to Lego is underway,

room

#vino

(or go to the default Poly room, i'll keep an eye open)

	14-04-2003 01:08									#137
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Could you please post the command we need to type to join?

	14-04-2003 01:16									#138
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nbarclay: /join #vino

quote: Originally posted by alva ...and IIRC, civ size has nothing to do with the amount of anarchy turns as it did in civ 2.

I didn't mean that it does. I just meant that they'll be having their 3 turns of anarchy in a time when they'll have a greater production than they had ~12 turns ago, so they'll lose more production than if they went to anarchy earlier.

quote: ...and the marshal Law (3), makes it a better goverment then I first thought .

Well, in chieftain that advantage is less significant. Plus, they're religious, they can build cheap temples and cathedrals.

quote: Sir Ralph, be sure to give our best whishes to your friend

Same here. I just read up and saw the posts about it.
I'm not really good at those things, so I don't know what to say. I guess, that nothing of this sort will happen to you or any of your friends ever again.

	14-04-2003 02:04									#139
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I don't mean to be rude, but:

Can we go ahead and make the decisions that need to be made in order to finish the turn? I think we've held it for 13 or 14 hours now.

I think many of us have weighed in on the issues of the day; ie the wonder switch and troop movements, that we need to finalize what we are doing and get a move on.

Thanks

(not meaning to step on anyones toes, I just want the game to move along faster)

	14-04-2003 02:16									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph No, although I hope so much for her. The seizure had a reason much worse than epilepsy. I don't believe in God, but for her I will pray. Sorry for posting this mess in this thread. I didn't want to spoil your fun. Lets go ahead, and let's get rid of Vox. Let's do it for my friend!

I hope your friend does better Sir Ralph. Don't feel bad for posting it in this thread, as we're all comrades here and will listen. Sometimes real life intrudes on these games we play. My family was faced with near tragedy itself on Friday, my grandmother totaled her car on the highway (combination of her being too old and a semi not letting her merge) but luckily she escaped only feeling shaken. So I was nearly in your position of fear and sadness. I hope you and your friend has similar luck as I had.

	14-04-2003 03:16									#141
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Unfortunately, Theseus and Aeson seem to have disappeared in mid-discussion. I don't think I'll step on any toes with any of the other moves, but I'd like some input on what to do with our two new galleys.

	14-04-2003 03:20									#142
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Unfortunately, Theseus and Aeson seem to have disappeared in mid-discussion. I don't think I'll step on any toes with any of the other moves, but I'd like some input on what to do with our two new galleys.

I understand that we need to discuss things, but is there someway to streamline the process?

I'm a little concerned abou tthat galley that is somewhere to the east. should we consider using the galley duo to hunt it? after they clear the area, they can pick up units from hurricane to take up to the iron deposit. Yes I know that is more inefficient that taking them to the west, but I want that galley destroyed.

	14-04-2003 03:27									#143
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I lean in the direction of heading up the east coast too, the idea being that the galleys can either drop off their troops and attack a Voxian galley if one shows up or land troops to pillage the iron road. But others had been talking in terms of heading up the [edit]west coast.

I agree that we definitely need to streamline this process. The most maddening part for me is that I can't play my other Civ games (either SP or MP) in between messages because I have the GS save open and in the middle of the turn.

Nathan

	14-04-2003 03:36									#144
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Ironic, isn't it

I too would prefer the galleys east, but for one reason, to see if anyone has joined in from BOB (and perhaps to guard the the GoW ones. I admit that GoW isn't going to invade this way, still..)

Sail east, matey arrrhh arhhh

	14-04-2003 03:42									#145
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Okay, here's what I'm going to do if no one tells me differently in the next half hour or so:

1) The two galleys will meet in the far south. There are two possible locations for this: one a tile farther west and the other a tile farther east. I'll choose the eastern meeting point, which costs us a tile if we go west but doesn't completely rule out either option that has the galleys travel together.

2) I'm going to play this paranoid and switch our build to the Great Library (so we can't possibly build a palace by accident) and move our laborer from the iron mountain to a cost tile (so we shouldn't be able to have it finish building next turn). I don't have adequate practice switching builds at the very beginning of the turn I discover a tech to feel fully comfortable with such a stunt. Next turn, we switch to Sun Tsu's.

3) We add a worker to EotS and short rush the barracks.

Other than that, I think our moves were pretty much settled.

Nathan

	14-04-2003 03:43									#146
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quote: Originally posted by alva Ironic, isn't it I too would prefer the galleys east, but for one reason, to see if anyone has joined in from BOB (and perhaps to guard the the GoW ones. I admit that GoW isn't going to invade this way, still..) Sail east, matey arrrhh arhhh

Are you sure you don't have your coasts mixed up? East is the one away from Bob.

	14-04-2003 03:48									#147
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everything sounds good to me.

	14-04-2003 03:50									#148
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay 2) .... I don't have adequate practice switching builds at the very beginning of the turn I discover a tech to feel fully comfortable with such a stunt. Next turn, we switch to Sun Tsu's. .....

Are you saying we have feudalism now (just gained and have just about enough shields to build it?....

Mss

	14-04-2003 03:52									#149
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quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed Are you saying we have feudalism now (just gained and have just about enough shields to build it?.... Mss

Hey, who are you!

we get feudal next turn. we have to juggle the city workers cause otherwise we would either move the palace or build the library the next turn

edit: we were building the pyramids, but lego completed one turn before us, now we are switching to sun tzus, which will be another 6 or so turns, estimated

	14-04-2003 03:54									#150
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...some flunkie ex-FAM

It just kills me to rush barracks just before getting Sun Tsu, seems like a waste..

Mss