03-05-2003 21:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen By the way, I'm surprised no one has made a big deal of Trip's espionage at the CFC chatroom which saw Darekill and Zayxus of the German team looking for a CFC representative. I mean, you don't just show up at someone's chat looking for a talk when you don't even have contact. That was WAAAAY too suspicious. I think they might have contact.

hi ,

its called pro-active intel , .....

have a nice day

	03-05-2003 23:03									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen By the way, I'm surprised no one has made a big deal of Trip's espionage at the CFC chatroom which saw Darekill and Zayxus of the German team looking for a CFC representative. I mean, you don't just show up at someone's chat looking for a talk when you don't even have contact. That was WAAAAY too suspicious. I think they might have contact.

Especially when the rules of the game prohibit discussions of anything consequential prior to contact in game.

A bit more than suspicious, but is it definitive?

	04-05-2003 00:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , its called pro-active intel , ..... have a nice day

No, its called cheating or its called contact. Take your pick.

	04-05-2003 00:25									#34
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Especially when the rules of the game prohibit discussions of anything consequential prior to contact in game. A bit more than suspicious, but is it definitive?

The way I look at it is this: why would we go to the German or French or (haha) Firaxian chatrooms? Doesn't make sense to just hang out there actively looking from someone from the team to speak...

I agree we mustn't take this as 100% evidence that they do have contact but its just too suspicious IMO.

	04-05-2003 00:27									#35
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , well one thing we definatly should do is build a city there ( landbridges ) for our fleets and defense , ...... it could be intresting if we find land there close to the sea with for an instance a lux or so , ..... (!) have a nice day

Have you seen the map? There's only incense nearby, and we have incense already, connecting it at this stage is not worth it.

If you are thinking long-term I have a feeling CDG will beat us to it, they can't really expand southwards so their only way is west.

	04-05-2003 00:39									#36
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I believe that CFC and ND have contact. Though CFC has said they don't, ND isn't the kind of team to just wander by the chatroom for the hell of it. The only times more than one of them (or any of them at all) come to a chatroom is when there's business to be taken care of.

	04-05-2003 03:48									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Trip CFC chatroom: Me == coolguy345 [11:57] * Guest87513 has joined #civfanatics [11:57] * Guest87513 is now known as Nicky [11:57] * Nicky is now known as Guest6666 [12:01] Guest6666 am looking for a chat room [12:02] Guest6666 I am from German Forum Webring [12:02] coolguy345 hello [12:03] coolguy345 who are you? [12:03] Guest6666 Apolyton server does not work? [12:03] coolguy345 no [12:04] Guest6666 where could two teams of a Demogracy-game meet? [12:05] coolguy345 #demogame_CFC_embassy, but no one is around right now I don't think Implications: CFC has contact with ND (GWT).

Just reviewed this chat scrap, and...

1. It does not indicate WR-CFC contact. The fellow is asking for where 'two teams of a Demogracy-game' could meet. He asks that after being disappointed that Poly chat is down at the moment. Trip then directs him to CFC's embassy, Nicky did not say anything about CFC. If Nicky had shown up here (if PolyChat were working) I guess all the other teams would assume we had contact with Webring.

2. He says he's from Webring. Did we see ID? Of course not. How likely is it that some players from other teams might want to muddy the waters just for a lark? Not highly likely, but always possible.

Now, I assume from declining cost of IW that CFC has it, and I am very curious as to how they came to have it, but I think we need to keep looking because a conclusion from the quoted bit that they have contact with Webring is highly likely to be erroneous.

	04-05-2003 03:55									#38
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btw, it doesn't even indicate that it is the ISDG that he is talking about. Perhaps the Germans wanted to chat with GoW, or Vox, or GS (why didn't I get an invite?) or...

	04-05-2003 04:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Now, I assume from declining cost of IW that CFC has it, and I am very curious as to how they came to have it, but I think we need to keep looking because a conclusion from the quoted bit that they have contact with Webring is highly likely to be erroneous.

If CFC has been able to blockade the Northern passage for sometime, they may have quite of bit of land to explore. They could've had the opposite luck we had with the huts; and they could still have some more land to explore and thus are protecting the Northern passage to protect those potentially valuble goodies.

Then getting IW from hut is a very real possibility.

I also agree that the chat above doesn't prove squat about CFC having contact with the GWT. It just shows someone who may have been familiar with that chat room in the past so he thoguht he'd go there and try to find some answers.

	04-05-2003 04:55									#40
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No IW from a hut. They are missing the wheel. Unless they have been researching it they would have got that from a hut before iron working.

Maybe they discovered IW and traded it to CDG for alphabet? CDG may have gone for that to finish early on IW. Furthermore, CDG may not have been researching flat out. They may well be saving some gold for upgrades.

	04-05-2003 05:45									#41
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I see no reason to believe that CFC wasn't actually researching IW for themselves. If we see another tech take a dip, then that wil say otherwise, but until/if that happens, I think they were researching IW.

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Just reviewed this chat scrap, and... 1. It does not indicate WR-CFC contact. The fellow is asking for where 'two teams of a Demogracy-game' could meet. He asks that after being disappointed that Poly chat is down at the moment. Trip then directs him to CFC's embassy, Nicky did not say anything about CFC. If Nicky had shown up here (if PolyChat were working) I guess all the other teams would assume we had contact with Webring. 2. He says he's from Webring. Did we see ID? Of course not. How likely is it that some players from other teams might want to muddy the waters just for a lark? Not highly likely, but always possible. Now, I assume from declining cost of IW that CFC has it, and I am very curious as to how they came to have it, but I think we need to keep looking because a conclusion from the quoted bit that they have contact with Webring is highly likely to be erroneous.

A short while later Darekill and Zaxyus were also in there at the same time, though Darekill mentioned he had to leave, and Zaxyus left a short while after Darekill.

	04-05-2003 20:53									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Have you seen the map? There's only incense nearby, and we have incense already, connecting it at this stage is not worth it. If you are thinking long-term I have a feeling CDG will beat us to it, they can't really expand southwards so their only way is west.

hi ,

" have you seen the map ", nope , neither have you , ..... we dont know whats there , but we should not waste time in not getting it , ....

as for a second source of incense , well it can be worth it , allies , diplomacy , imagine we loose some ground , .... many things can happen , to many , thats one of the reasons we should go after it , .....

have a nice day

	04-05-2003 21:25									#43
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I was referring to the game map, not the overall map

If you look at the map the landbridge is mostly surrounded by (guess what?) jungle, mountains and hills. There is one isolated incense nearby, but it is so far away I don't see why we should make an efort at this stage when we have MUCH more important things to do like connecting our abundant iron, and REXing nicely around our surroundings. The landbridge can wait...

Oh, and in MP the other teams won't fall for things so easy. You honestly think CDG or CFC will cease from crushing us if they have the chance just for one incense??

	04-05-2003 21:28									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I was referring to the game map, not the overall map If you look at the map the landbridge is mostly surrounded by (guess what?) jungle, mountains and hills. There is one isolated incense nearby, but it is so far away I don't see why we should make an efort at this stage when we have MUCH more important things to do like connecting our abundant iron, and REXing nicely around our surroundings. The landbridge can wait... Oh, and in MP the other teams won't fall for things so easy. You honestly think CDG or CFC will cease from crushing us if they have the chance just for one incense??

hi ,

guess what resources lay in jungle , .... or mountains or hills , ..... the purpose of having a city there stand loose from the fact there is an incense there , ......

the land bridge should get first class priority

huh , are cdg and cfc the only teams , ....

bye

	04-05-2003 22:11									#45
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panag, we've got the friggin Amazon jungle below us, why do we need far-off jungle too? We also have hills mountains, etc. There is no terrain over there that there isn't around here.

What other resource isf ound in jungle, rubber? We are MONTHS away from finding rubber and the game may well be over by then. If anything there might be saltpeter from the hills but we also have hills and we also have some desert too. And by the time we're around Gunpower, who knows, CDG might not exist

	04-05-2003 22:19									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen panag, we've got the friggin Amazon jungle below us, why do we need far-off jungle too? We also have hills mountains, etc. There is no terrain over there that there isn't around here. What other resource isf ound in jungle, rubber? We are MONTHS away from finding rubber and the game may well be over by then. If anything there might be saltpeter from the hills but we also have hills and we also have some desert too. And by the time we're around Gunpower, who knows, CDG might not exist

Master Zen , ever heard of the word opinion , well every man or woman has the right of one , .....

still you fail to see the benefits of having a city on the landbridge , yet every player knows it has defensive values , .....

since there is plenty or reasons and answers above , ......

	04-05-2003 23:32									#47
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Well, then, let's hear what every other player has to say about this...

Last edited by Master Zen on 04-05-2003 at 23:51

	05-05-2003 02:53									#48
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I agree with MA here; the benfits of securing the Notrthern land bidge does not fit the cost associated with it. On a seperate note; It looks as if my map was correct after all.

	06-05-2003 00:55									#49
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Draft NAP for CFC. I'll be sending this off a little later today:

Greetings from Apolyton!

I, the Ambassador of Apolytonia, hereby offer the following proposal to the Nation of Fanatika. If you agree to this propsal as outlined, mark "AGREED" on the bottom of the document and foward it to ZargonX. It shall then be considered a binding agreement once I've recieved it.

APOLYTONIA AND FANATIKA HEREBY AGREE:

That we are brothers, bound together in our common desire to survive and prosper. As the world prospers most in times of peace, we wish for there to be peace between us. In order to ensure that peace we hereby agree to the following:

1) There shall be no war or conflict between us. Our units shall not attack each other, nor shall they enter the cultural borders of the other party without permission. This shall be considered a Non-Aggression Pact. There shall also be a 1-tile "buffer zone" around cultural borders. If this buffer must be breached for any reason, warning should be given in advance.

2) We agree to cooperate and communicate regarding any diputes over settlements or scouting. We agree to work out our differences in a chat, should any differences arise.

3) This agreement shall last 30 turns after it is ratified by both parties. This agreement shall be open for renegotiation after 25 turns have passed.

	07-05-2003 02:53									#50
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I have received word back from Zarn that the proposal has been looked at by the CFC leadership, and it looks quite good to them. they have to put it to an offical team vote, but he's almost 100% positive it will pass.

	09-05-2003 03:56									#51
	Inflate your Upload Space

What we learned from CFC today in chat:

They are democracy and tend to poll things before decisions are made. We can expect some reasonable delay with every offer or deal we make, and we should try to make them early to give CFC time to debate them.

They researched Ceremonial Burial themselves. They are thinking of doing Writing next. We let them know we have writing and that we will trade them writing for another equal tech. That deal will be started after we finish the current deal.

Current offer is Wheel for Ceremonial Burial + 20g.

No discussion about Horseback Riding was done yet as we first need to trade them Writing before we can give them Mapmaking.

We did not reveal our no-trade clause to them for writing and do not need to because they won't have a tradeable tech (Math?) before the No-Trade runs out.


Perhaps we should send them a persuasive letter ... with their tensions with CDG and GCA, they could become our main techtrading partners and we need to convince them to research different paths to boost both of our research.

ZargonX -- Give them a day and then send them a letter politely reminding them of our tech offer, our NAP, and proposing that we trade them Writing for Math ... and proposing that we cooperate and research different techs so that we can trade with each other and both rapidly advance up the tech tree.

--Togas

	09-05-2003 04:50									#52
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This is a link to the CFC constitution:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=48615

--Togas

	09-05-2003 06:24									#53
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As we have Writing, can we make an offer to trade it to them for contact with other civs?

E_T

	09-05-2003 08:17									#54
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quote: Originally posted by E_T As we have Writing, can we make an offer to trade it to them for contact with other civs? E_T

They claim to have no contact with any other teams (which is likely). Even so, we're not allowed to trade Writing for a while as per our agreement with GCA.

	09-05-2003 14:59									#55
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hi ,

cb is a powerfull tech , we dont need the weel as of now , .....

we should no be paying them 20 g's , ...

have a nice day

	09-05-2003 15:46									#56
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(here we go again)

We have the wheel. See the nice little horsie on the map? It's there because we have said tech. The offer was to sell them CB for 20g after we bought it from GCA but since they allready have it we can buy it from CFC instead. I suggest you read the correspondence to know what we are actually trading.

-MZ

	09-05-2003 23:31									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen (here we go again) We have the wheel. See the nice little horsie on the map? It's there because we have said tech. The offer was to sell them CB for 20g after we bought it from GCA but since they allready have it we can buy it from CFC instead. I suggest you read the correspondence to know what we are actually trading. -MZ

hi ,

i was wondering also , since i asked to put a city near it , ....

yet its posted today , .... i thought it was horseback riding , .....

have a nice day

edit ; typo

	05-06-2003 13:23									#58
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Very, VERY, interesting chat with OctavianX and FortyJ a few hours ago:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...848#post2062848


Summary:

1) still discussing the map/tech deal

2) Octavian openly suggested a Poly-CFC alliance against GCA to which I made a rather direct/indirect reply (see chat log)

See? my Evil Plans are never wrong!


It's pretty late over here, I'm heading to bed and hopefully we can discuss this chat tomorrow

-MZ

	05-06-2003 15:36									#59
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Mmm... remember this is the same OctavianX who is now a Co-Vice-President of OUR SP Demo game here on Poly, so he may well be a bit more open to things. And you have to be extra careful outside this forum!

	05-06-2003 15:41									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Mmm... remember this is the same OctavianX who is now a Co-Vice-President of OUR SP Demo game here on Poly, so he may well be a bit more open to things. And you have to be extra careful outside this forum!

hi ,

he is in the chat now and then , he seems to have shifted a bit his loyalty towards poly , .....

or his he on a mission with a goal , .....

have a nice day