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DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 30-10-2004 22:08
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Would you e.g. propose to give them the precise numbers of what's on our invasion fleet? It only takes a spy to see how weak our defenses really are... isn't the risk too big?

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 30-10-2004 22:14
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They gave us precise numbers right?

And we do have MI now... which are significantly tougher on Marines than I. We have quite a bit of cash, which they'd probably guess. So all our Riflemen would need to be considered to be MI if we are threatened. (We couldn't upgrade them all without a couple turns notice, but an invader would have to consider that we could possibly have more cash than we do.)

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 30-10-2004 22:41
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well, as long as we're cropping gold info, this might work. Up to the time they investigate the smallest of our cities, and see our reserves (which are at an all time low right now )

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 01-11-2004 00:09
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Good report .

Agreed also that cropping has diplo benefits over blacked-out bits. Deepo, shall I go ahead, crop the pic and send it and the report to GoW? I think there is a consensus for openness.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 01-11-2004 00:18
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Hmm, can't really crop without also zapping relevant unit info. I could gloss over it with some words ... "uhm, sorry guys, we're not sure what the protocol is on screenies and what economic data is usual to show to another team in these circumstances."

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 01-11-2004 00:51
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OK, report sent as-is plus little explaination for the black rectangles.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 06-11-2004 22:39
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If GoW somehow misses the rubber issue, it could cost us dearly.
I suggest sending another message (in addition to Cort Haus's latest nudge to MZ) to other members if GoW in half a day or so if MZ doesn't reply.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 06-11-2004 22:49
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I'm not sure if we can solve it at any rate... the procedure Panzer gave us for luxury renewal can't be applied if they can't go into the active deals screen (I didn't try it this turn, but I guess the bug still exists). I guess the resource renewal follows the same protocol as the lux deals... without going into the active deals screen, it might not be possible to even give us rubber.

It's a bit scary that GoW is not answering us on this one, at the precise moment we're most vulnarable for sneak attack. Add to that that ND hasn't responded to us on the last message either, and that RP's cities are all empty. Right now, the only thing keeping us 'safe' are 3 MI in Elipolis. GoW can walk right in if they want to.

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 06-11-2004 23:21
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Put an end to popups!

GoW have replied (see log). They will send rubber (bug permitting), and seek a price for Computers.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 06-11-2004 23:26
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erhm... with all this talk about the need to sell our techs, we forgot to set a price

Let's see, what about rubber for 20 turns, and 25% of the beaker cost? would that be too much? Computers is 6240 beakers, BTW... 25% would come to 1560 gold. That's enough gold to start on a next tech, after upgrading most of our forces...

Alternatively, we could try to get a deal on the next tech going. Both rocketry and nuclear power are of interest to us.

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-11-2004 16:55
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A deal on the next tech would be good. Instant money would be useful, but a tech more valuable in the medium term - unless quick money was essential.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-11-2004 18:16
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What shall I send GoW on the battle report, DeepO? I gathered you wanted to omit a couple of things from the report sent to RP.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 07-11-2004 18:27
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Got spare money?

quick money would be nice, though, we can surely need it. But perhaps we can combine the talks, in that we at the same time arrange something for the next tech. If we get their money, we can start researching again next turn or so (not at 100%), which should end both of us at the same time.

Battle report: if you omit our information (the table with our unit count), and perhaps combine the 2 fleet (so only say we're bringing 55 M, 70 T, 10 S, 4 W, 3 E, 4 MI, 22 I, not where everything is located), I think it's fine. Even in case they decide to cross us, Lego won't be really helped with this... as long as they don't guess where our M are, it's cool.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 20:08
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payment in installments... for me it depends on what they mean by that. GoW doing research, while we have to wait for our money is unacceptable to me. We need the cash, probably more than they do (although they want to upgrade their infs as well). Seeing our economy, I think GoW can earn the gold in 3 turns, so if they propose something like 5 turns or so, no deal. If they want to pay us in 3 turns, it's okay by me.

CH, maybe explain this to them: if they continue researching, while we are running 100% gold, it is not fair to us. So the moment they are running 100% cash and siphon their 'extra' cash to us, we can do it in installments.

Also, no need to mention this to them, but I wouldn't mind if we take another turn negotiating this. If they are able to upgrade all their infs on D-day (they could take a harbor city with a barracks intact), we would feel the brunt of the Lego counter attack. Especially as we don't have the funds to upgrade everything we land. So let them be 1 turn behind us, please.

On another note: we are giving all information collected to GoW, so would it be possible to receive the screenshots from the investigations ND took? They might be outdated, but could give us some clues to what is happening (especially the gold situation)

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 20:11
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh, maybe another way of wording it: if they upgrade any infs before having made the final payment to us, while we don't have the cash to upgrade all our defenders (including leftover rifles), it is unfair to us and we can't agree to that. Not that we don't want to give GoW the extra defense, but we have to think of our own good first.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 21:57
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

GoW must have investigated those 2 cities beforehand, we can't see so much of Legoland. Maybe a good idea to exchange maps!

(well, next turn, we should do it anyway once we investigated a bit more)

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 22:00
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And something I don't really grasp: if Jackson was so lightly defended, why not attack it? It would only take a couple of marines. Add the 2 settlers, and they could have attacked Legopolis with settlerhopping (although I still don't want to tell to them what exactly we're planning, so let's not mention it to them)

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 22:44
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Maybe they do not trust the info they got? Plus they may need many many marines, if the city has a bunch of low level units in it.

They only know that the top unit was at 2 hp and was still rated a better defender. Four HP calvs or some other units could be sitting there.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 23:12
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There are a couple of strange things here. The 2/4 inf is something that is bothering me. Okay, let's say there are 20 cavs present, why only one inf? If Lego counted, they must have known that in principle, Jackons could be under attack from GoW last turn. Unless, of course, they've got a sub tailing the GoW stack, and it was out of reach (not so unlikely).

It could be a sign that while Lego spotted our S stack last turn, they didn't know where our N stack was, and were protecting most of their coast with infs. But even then, there aren't that many spots which we could have attacked.

Something else which is a bit fishy: how does GoW know that there are 2 BBs in Jackson? The might have been there a couple of turns ago, but why say they are there know? Have they guarded all outgoing routes, and haven't seen them leave? It's possible, but the pic doesn't suggest that.

And a last point: they don't really have a fork on Dye fields and Jackson. Sure, marines can attack both cities, but the position they are currently in makes it only possible to unload troops in Dye fields with movement remaining. Not in Jackson... transports can't enter the city. I would have left a couple of transports, even if they were only empty, within reach of Jackson to leave a chaining threat. Lego will suspect that Dye fields is the target.

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 23:52
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If ND investigated the city and it shows 2 BB's and GoW is bombing with 11 bombers and maybe a recon with the one fighter, they would likely spot any ships that moved out.

As bombers pass over, I often see ships in the periphery.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 10-11-2004 23:58
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Perhaps that's the explanation, yes. They would only have to scout the area to the East of Dye fields to spot all escape routes... but in that case, ND must have investigated last turn, not 2 turns ago.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 00:00
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Fact remains that the GoW stack should have been 7 from where they are now to make a convincable fork. Not being spotted near the borders is a small gain for giving away your invasion plans.

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 00:05
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ND investigated for them, so that's probably how they saw the BB. They should have known exactly what was in Jackson in that case. Where was their fleet last turn? If it was 88888 of where it is now, they couldn't have reached Jackson.

Otherwise, perhaps GoW just doesn't want to land first. They'd take the brunt of Lego's Tanks and they wouldn't know if we were really in on it or not.

Krill is offline Krill
Emperor
On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 00:34
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Ok, I just want to ask this now: what if GoW has left enough TR to chain all of their units back to their homeland, switch them to our coast, load to new transports, and then invade us? It would garrentee them the perfect oppurtunity no matter what any team did. If we invade Lego, and take their FP, then they don't have to do anything else to harm lego, since Lego will effectively be out of the space race immediately. They could chain all of their units back over to us, and hit us, taking us out of the game as well. The game would belong to either GoW or ND.

It's what I would do. Not easy to pull off or Conceal, but the new patch of GoW cities (the southern lot) could contain TR, correct? And arn't they within reach of RP? And Are the RP cities completely empty?.


Just a rather pessimistic PoV Not likely, but still possible

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 00:58
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I don't think it's worthwhile.

Done on their own, GoW would be at war with Lego and GS, GS and Lego at war with each other, and ND would win hands down. GoW wouldn't know that we wouldn't join up with Lego or that ND wouldn't backstab.

If GoW was in on it with Lego and/or ND, then why have helped us get to MI, Marines, Bombers, Tanks, and given us Rubber? It would be going to a lot of trouble just to make things tougher on themselves. Why not a GAUGS with Lego or ND instead? We'd still have Riflemen as our best defenders if they just wanted to take us out I think.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 01:51
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Yes and we long ago concluded that we only have one option and we cannot do much about a gang up.

We have to proceed on the basis that they are at least not coming for us right now. That they don't want to be first is understandable, even if they are on our side.

Also they have ND to sweat, although they have been acting properly with each other all along.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 05:12
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Get a bigger avatar today!

ND is the problem, not GoW. They're very cosy with GoW... how else would they know we were offering computers to GoW, only hours after we send the PM?

As to elaborate backstabs, chainers, and extra transports: could all be there... but it would be a lot easier to doctor the screenshots, and send those to us. Let's assume they're not doing it, even if they are of course trying to let us pay for the war, and have the benefits for themselves. But we try the same thing.

Now back to my visitors

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 11-11-2004 23:19
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Short message sent to GoW, testing the water on 3-turn payment terms for Computers. Didn't mention the timing yet - that can be introduced later. Perhaps they don't want us upgrading all our Infs for the same reason as DeepO mentioned from our pov, and that's why they don't want to pay all up front. Also, they might want to crack ahead to see where the green goo is - it could be relevant to their plans for Lego.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 14-11-2004 06:48
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We need screen shots from them... preferably RIGHT NOW!!

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 14-11-2004 14:36
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request sent to MZ cc Panzer

 
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