26-05-2003 01:17									#121
	Increase the size of your Attachments

FFS you go out with your GF her mum beats you and you can finish up to 6 months in prison for that???



Whoa... it can be scary when you live in a close minded community, anyway see how it goes with your GF, I would be as hard as RJ but it is pretty certain that this will be a hard choice as with you she will most likely have to dump them. Well at least if she decides to do it you know this is it

	26-05-2003 01:19									#122
	Support Apolyton

Well, 15 isn't the best with the higher presence of sex in our societies for a few decades, I'd think 14 would be more accurate. With the amount of sexual education (at school, home etc.) and sexual content in the media, most teenagers are now aware of what sex is about.

The 15 year-old limit was intended to protect young people of being misled by adults into having sex (something similar to kiddy rape), but I think this limit should be lowered a tad now that the understanding for sex is progressing in our society.
(please note that I am all for a limit, since too young people cannot understand what sexual relations mean - I just argue this comprehension now comes way sooner than 18, and even sooner than 15).

A higher limit is utterly absurd. It just serves self-righteous parents who can't bear to see their kids taken by someone else. Parent's jealousy is an eon-old phenomenon, and we are witnessing it with Korn's case. I don't think we should fuel it with ludicrous laws.

	26-05-2003 01:29									#123
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Pekka Why not 21 while were at it? Hell, let's just ban sex!

Why not just at the age where they are adults. As long as they are wards of their parents, it implies some inability to make these decisions and some responsability of the parents for them. Maybe the people who want to have sex earlier can just move out.

	26-05-2003 01:30									#124
	Support Apolyton

If they want to f*ck, then they can pay for their own chow.

	26-05-2003 01:31									#125
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Actually this girl's actions are a perfect example showing that she is still a child. Anybody who wouldn't walk out of the house if their mom put their bf in jail? What a baby. Obviously she is still very susceptible and child-like.

	26-05-2003 01:32									#126
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ok, I just disagree with you there.

	26-05-2003 01:33									#127
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by GP Why not just at the age where they are adults. As long as they are wards of their parents, it implies some inability to make these decisions and some responsability of the parents for them.

I suggest we forbid people to walk alone in the streets as long as they're wards of their parents too. They shouldn't be able to make these decisions (walking) by themselves.

	26-05-2003 01:34									#128
	Got spare money?

No problem, I'm not sure if I agree with myself. Just trying to think through it. Anyways, I think we all agree that there is something wrong with that girl and she either doesn't love him or is a ***** or is child-like. She should have walked out.

	26-05-2003 01:38									#129
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I tend for the child-like.

Despite being 4 years older than her and used of living alone, I am still finacially dependent from my parents at least until the end of my studies. Getting prematurely independant from the family is very difficult, expecially when it is as jealous and possessive as these *******s (i.e huge pressure to which the girl has never been taught to resist)

I find it actually quite brave, in this context, that she didn't dump Korn.

	26-05-2003 01:39									#130
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

"The 2,000,000 incarcerated in the US, represent 25% of the WORLD'S prison population."

Seriously??? Is it that many?? That's actually rather shocking!!! I dont question your numbers but I need more precise stats, can you give me a source or pm me?

"With numbers like that, I don't think the "presumption of innocence" is all it's cracked up to be"

Either that, or America has a lot of social problems that lead to crime. I suspect a bit of both.

	26-05-2003 01:40									#131
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I suggest we forbid people to walk alone in the streets as long as they're wards of their parents too. They shouldn't be able to make these decisions (walking) by themselves.

The prohibition is not on the minors having sex, themselves. It is on the people who have sex with them. Perhaps, legal contracts might be a good analogy.

Anyway, why not make it ok if the person who does it gets parental permission? That way you could do it with anyone? Or we could just make it bleeders. I don't really see reason for arguing about any limit between legal adulthood and puberty.

	26-05-2003 01:40									#132
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by elijah Either that, or America has a lot of social problems that lead to crime. I suspect a bit of both.

A lot of it has to do with drug incarceration rates. I'm not sure what the figures are, but one of the main reasons for that statistic is our imprisoning of various drug users, sellers, growers, etc. for very long periods of time.

	26-05-2003 01:41									#133
	Suffering from ads?

Or we could just say that minors have the right to have sex and that others have the right to have consensual sex with them. But the parents dcn't have to feed them anymore.

	26-05-2003 01:41									#134
	Full PM-box? Change here!

RJ, GP, et al

i'm not sure if you're parents or anything, but i mean if you woke up at 5am and your daughter is gone, then you go and look for her, and you find her making out with a guy who doesn't have on his pants in the back of his car at a park a few miles from your house, i'm kinda thinking you'd be upset to...the only reason i didn't goto jail that morning was because the cops didn't have any officers in the area to come and pick me up, so her dad decided to let me leave. a few hours later they took her to the police station, and that's when they filed the police report. like i said at first the police had charged me with kidnapping, rape, a some other things i forgot what she told me they were. she told them that was BS, and got them to drop all of that. then her parents and the police made her give a statement and if she didn't she could have been sent to either a detention center for noncompliance, or they could have put her in protective custody to protect her from me. she didn't have any constitutional protections because she isn't a suspect, she's a witness. no pleading the 5th, nothing of the sort. she told them she wasn't going to cooperate, but just since her parents got to see my ass at 5:30am is enough to arrest me you know. either way they had enough to at least bring me in, and without some minimal form of cooperation they could have put her in some form of lockdown as well. while she could have left that day, legally she couldn't have came and lived with me, and legally we couldn't have got married, because you can only get married in mississippi without your parents permission if you are under 18. If I had of took her there that would have been kidnapping in a legal sense (even if it had of been both of our ideas), it would have invalidated the marriage i'm sure, and most of all it would have made things worse. i think we have a future together and i don't want to make things worse, i want to make them as easy as possible for everyone. hopefully one day her parents will accept me, but if not it's no big deal. this will all be over soon, and then we can have a fresh start. so it was our idea to wait till a better time came along.

the reason i took the plea bargin is that with the misdemeanors, they don't have to prove sex or oral sex (because that's statutory) just anything else. fondling counts. although they carry less of a jail sentence than contributing, if you get convicted of them (or plead guilty) you then have to register as a sex offender for 10 years. trust me i don't want everyone in my community thinking i'm a serial rapist. while i may have got off i may not. it was a crap shoot, and i decided to play it safe.

at the sentencing my lawyer gets to recommend a sentence, the probation officer does to, as well as her parents and her. so most likely i'll just get probation, and a misdemeanor on my record for 7 years. so all in all it's not that bad.

	26-05-2003 01:41									#135
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, I agree that she should have put up one helluva fight if she loves korn. But at the same time she didn't dump him, so I guess that means something...

	26-05-2003 01:42									#136
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Was her statement truthful? Did she say that there was no intercourse?

	26-05-2003 01:45									#137
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

GP it was truthful and said we didn't do anything that night

so like i said earlier i could have probably beat the statutory felonies, but as for the rest i don't know, and if i hadn't of, i would have had to register as a sex offender

	26-05-2003 01:45									#138
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm not saying that she should have resisted the court's requirement for her to testify. I'm saying that she should not live with parents who put a bf that she loves into jail. She should bail and live in a shelter or the streets before that. I mean, if she is independant enough to have sex, she should be independant enough to live away from parents. Plus that is just whacked to hang with Daddy and Mommy when they are putting her bf in jail. She is a baby or doesn't love you. One or the other.

	26-05-2003 01:47									#139
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I tend for the child-like. Despite being 4 years older than her and used of living alone, I am still finacially dependent from my parents at least until the end of my studies. Getting prematurely independant from the family is very difficult, expecially when it is as jealous and possessive as these *******s (i.e huge pressure to which the girl has never been taught to resist) I find it actually quite brave, in this context, that she didn't dump Korn.

I guess we have different standards of bravery and of familial connection. This country was founded by people running away from home and moving west as teens. Andrew Jackson was a Revolutionary War soldier at age 12.

	26-05-2003 01:47									#140
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by GP Anyway, why not make it ok if the person who does it gets parental permission?

I'm sure the incestuous parents will give their permission for their children to have sex with them, for sure

I consider young sex to be a general societal issue (i.e preventing pedophila and youngster-misleading), NOT to be an issue for the parents in particular. Once the kid is mature enough for sex (both physically and mentally), I don't see why the parents should have any say in what the kid does.

Considering that parents should give their permission for their children to have sex, is like considering that parents should give their authorization for everything their child does. To me, having Y's parents forbidding X to have sex with Y is exactly the same as having Y's parent's forbidding Z to be friends with Y. I can understand they pressure their kid, byut I cannot understand they could sue people on it

	26-05-2003 01:48									#141
	Inflate your Upload Space

I guess its a matter of the persons ability to cope on their own. In Britain, the age of consent is 16, while one is considered an adult at 18. It would appear that one doesnt link ability to choose with adulthood.

For me, there is no "set time" when people should be allowed to have sex. Its a question of whether one is physically able and mentally able. Society, as an externel force, decides to impose specific set boundaries on those individuals, though they may not have met those boundaries, are yet in reality perfectly "able" to have sex. In that sense, perhaps one should use a "flexible" age of consent that uses common sense, but still prevents stuff like child-rape and other genuine crimes.

	26-05-2003 01:48									#142
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

GP, I have a friend who's 17 and who has been together with someone who's 23 for about half a year already. That girl is far more mature than most girls of her age and even many of mine. (21) She has a very mature attitude towards sex and relationships and she could easily live alone if she had the financial means. (maybe after she graduated from highschool) Point being is that she's perfectly capable of making sexual decision for herself, and the fact she still lives with her parents has nothing to do with that.
Heck, I even have a nephew who's over 30, who's earning lots of cash, and still lives with his parents.

	26-05-2003 01:50									#143
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by korn469 GP it was truthful and said we didn't do anything that night so like i said earlier i could have probably beat the statutory felonies, but as for the rest i don't know, and if i hadn't of, i would have had to register as a sex offender

It sounds like you did the right thing and have your head screwed on straight. I am being very theoretical about the whole damn thing. I'm surprised you haven't gotten pissed yet.

I do think you should ditch her and stay away from 17 yearolds. Or at least if you get another soulmate at age 17, keep it non-sexual. (You haven't said so, but I get the impression that you had sexwith her at other times.)

You are taking both a legal risk and a common-sense risk by having that level of relationship with a 17 yearold.

	26-05-2003 01:54									#144
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm sure the incestuous parents will give their permission for their children to have sex with them, for sure I consider young sex to be a general societal issue (i.e preventing pedophila and youngster-misleading), NOT to be an issue for the parents in particular. Once the kid is mature enough for sex (both physically and mentally), I don't see why the parents should have any say in what the kid does. Considering that parents should give their permission for their children to have sex, is like considering that parents should give their authorization for everything their child does. To me, having Y's parents forbidding X to have sex with Y is exactly the same as having Y's parent's forbidding Z to be friends with Y. I can understand they pressure their kid, byut I cannot understand they could sue people on it

If they are living in the same house. Are wards of the parents, than the parents should be able to regulate their behavior. Many parents think premaritial sex is wrong. Maybe they think it cause they are from another generation. Maybe cause they are jealous. Either way, they should be able to make those rules if they are dishing out the chow and the roof. I would even say the same for college students. Mom and Dad can choose not to fund college for children if they disagree with their lifestyle. If so, the child can work. Parents don't owe a child college tuition. Once you're 18, for sure, your parents don't owe you jackass.

	26-05-2003 01:54									#145
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Colon GP, I have a friend who's 17 and who has been together with someone who's 23 for about half a year already. That girl is far more mature than most girls of her age and even many of mine. (21) She has a very mature attitude towards sex and relationships and she could easily live alone if she had the financial means. (maybe after she graduated from highschool) Point being is that she's perfectly capable of making sexual decision for herself, and the fact she still lives with her parents has nothing to do with that. Heck, I even have a nephew who's over 30, who's earning lots of cash, and still lives with his parents.

See all my other points.

	26-05-2003 02:01									#146
	Inflate your Upload Space

The rules the parents want to impose to their children should have nothing to do with legal age (which is what I am talking about). The way parents manage the increasing autonomy of their children should be strictly family business, and should not go in front of a court. The law has to bother with avoiding children to being molested, or youngsters to being misled.

To that effect, the legal age should have nothing to do with parental dependency, but should have to do with the age where people are deemed to be mature for sex, where people are deemed mature enough not to be abused.

	26-05-2003 03:08									#147
	Put an end to popups!

18 is far too old. 16 is more like it. Plently of countries have this as their age limit and there isn't mass depravity going on. Not everyone has sex at that age but it doesn't seem to have created any massive social problems. Where I come from the cops know that the point of the law is to prevent really old people from doing it with 15 year olds. If 2 15 year olds are at it then the police couldn't give a damn.

Let me guess, in Korn's county it's also illegal to get a a blow job. Puritanical twits.

	26-05-2003 03:20									#148
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Let me guess, in Korn's county it's also illegal to get a a blow job. Puritanical twits.

Not federal law, but I know it's illegal in my state (California). Those laws, however, were passed a long time ago and are not enforced (with the exception of a few laws in a a few states, i.e. Texas' "anti-sodomy" law).

	26-05-2003 03:27									#149
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Not federal law, but I know it's illegal in my state (California). Those laws, however, were passed a long time ago and are not enforced (with the exception of a few laws in a a few states, i.e. Texas' "anti-sodomy" law).

In 96 there was a story about an English photojournalist who met another journalist at the Olympics and took pictures of them engaging in various sex acts. The developers dobbed him in to the police who arrested him - to his horror and that of much of the civilised world.

Any country that makes BJs illegal is in my view cruel and insane.

	26-05-2003 03:28									#150
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Agathon In 96 there was a story about an English photojournalist who met another journalist at the Olympics and took pictures of them engaging in various sex acts. The developers dobbed him in to the police who arrested him - to his horror and that of much of the civilised world. Any country that makes BJs illegal is in my view cruel and insane.

Free the Deep Throaters!!

(when do our liberation airstrikes start? We did it for you... )