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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh
After hearing the details I think you were crazy to make a plea bargin. You did nothing wrong and I really don't believe that US juries are that loony! In Europe, even if you had done anything (which it seems you hadn't) then it still wouldn't be a crime. Whereas the mother's actions definitely were.
Justice has not been served 
PS: And you should dump the gf. I don't believe she couldn't talk her parents out of pressing the charges if she wanted it bad enough. You have to face facts - it is obvious she doesn't care for you as you do for her. |
While in some instances I think it would be alright for a 16 year old girl sleep with a 25 year old man, in the majority I think it is damaging to the girl. That's a large age difference spanning some very important years of development. It is from relationships such as these that many of our teenage pregnancies occur. Normally it involves a man who is immature for his age with respect to sex / romance and a girl who is having trouble at home, and / or who has had a troubled relationship or no relationship with her father. Both get something from the relationship in the short run, but neither get what they really need in the long run. I'll leave the specifics of Korn's situation out of this, as they may be different, but I do see some value in the law. I have seen too many situations where older men serially prey upon younger girls to simply write this off as prosecutorial malfeasance.
As for the girl, I certainly don't have enough information to simply write her off either. Forcing anyone give up their relationship with their parents in order to continue a romantic relationship is asking an awful lot IMO, especially from a 16 year old. Aside from a fairly predictable reaction from the girl's mother I don't see how one can judge the parents from the limited amount of information provided. While they may not have handled the situation as you would have, I can't say that their actions are bad enough that the girl would be better off without them.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:28
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quote:
As for the girl, I certainly don't have enough information to simply write her off either. Forcing anyone give up their relationship with their parents in order to continue a romantic relationship is asking an awful lot IMO, especially from a 16 year old. Aside from a fairly predictable reaction from the girl's mother I don't see how one can judge the parents from the limited amount of information provided. While they may not have handled the situation as you would have, I can't say that their actions are bad enough that the girl would be better off without them. |
Sikander is right
not only that, the law is completely on the parents side, if in my particle case, she had of just ditched her parents they could have had the police look for her as a runaway which is illegal, also the particular area we live in is economically depressed, and getting jobs is a fairly intensive task, sometimes it is even difficult to get a job at a fast food place around here...a friend of mine has a bachelor's degree, and because he didn't want to move away, after a month or so of looking, all he could get was a job at a burger joint; additionally when you leave a place, especially under less than ideal circumstances you not only give up your family, but you give up your friends as well. plus there isn't any type of public transportation around here; if she had of set off in her car, which is in her parent's name they'd have probably charged her with car theft. we talked about it all, and i'm happy with the choices we made since this has happened. before we made some bad choices, but we weren't the only ones. however, the way the law is set up, it doesn't matter. legally i was the only one making questionable choices. like i said if we'd all set down and talked and about this before or after this happened as reasonable people none of this would have happened, but since we didn't it turned out like this.
when i have more time i'll respond to the rest of the points, because i've had lots of time to put lots of thought into it.
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:28
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oerdin
lol none
AH
i wasn't going to say what it was till it was over, and now it for all intents and purposes is
quote:
If he hadn't made it, I would have. Korn, you got off light, cuz I would have beat you senseless if I found you with my underage daughter. Course, I would have put my foot down immediately. No way in hell would I let my daugher date a man eight years her senior |
che
that reaction is understandable, but the one i encountered was far different than that. basically the four of us never really communicated at all. they knew we were more than just friends, i mean i know her family had seen us kiss before, yet nothing, besides hints and conflicting signals. the way things are now, parents can act any way they choose, let things slide, be neglectful, or just don't pry at all for years, then when they decide to start exerting their influence, they hold all of the legal assurances. parents can make mistakes, but the benefit of the doubt always goes with them in the current system. not that i didn't make my share of mistakes as well. maybe i should have been tarred and feathered, beat to a bloody pulp, or whatever; but all of the punishments i have experienced so far i've taken them, and i've tried to learn something from them. this has cost me a great deal of time, lots of money (relatively speaking of course), some freedom, a job, a relationship, lots of stress and remorse, and lots of self worth and pride. maybe it's not enough, nowhere even close, i'm not sure. all i ask is did the law protect the proper people? possibly, but i don't think it did.
i myself am a child born out of statutory rape. my mom was 16, and my father was 21 when my mom got pregnant with me. they married, and had two other children. although my mom had me when she was 17, and my father turned out to be a loser, with my parents eventually divorcing when i was about 14, my mom has had some success in life. also, considering the amount of divorce in the US i doubt their age was the cause of it. in fact i'd say it was their lack of communication, his emotional distance, and the fact he was content with being a nobody. the thing is, it seems like the divorce, even with their increased experience, my parents new relationships have been worse for the most part, not that they were good. my mom managed to get a master's degree, and very recently she landed a really good job. she may possibly go on and earn her PhD. my brother just landed an internship on capital hill, and all three of us will graduate college this year. maybe if my mom's parents had of arrested my dad before my mom was pregnant society would have been better. if somehow my soul could have been born to my mom later, maybe we wouldn't have grown up as poor, maybe things would have been vastly better, but i am actually quite satisfied with the way many of the hardships i experinced as a child helped mold me into who i am now. i'm not perfect, i'm not even close, nor will i ever be, but i am learning to love myself for who i am everyday. i do think i have things to offer, both to the individuals that are close to me, and society as a whole because of my upbringing. before this whole incident, about the worst type of trouble i had ever caused was truthfully speaking my mind, since my beliefs aren't exactly mainstream. i'm an athiestic, vegetarian, with a completely open mind, in a rural bible belt area of the US. most of the things i believe are different from the US norm, and especially from the norm around here.
i met a person, who is funny, fun to be around, easy going, and who puts me at ease. in the time we knew each other we talked constantly as friends, and once we started dating, not only did we talk everyday, we'd probably talk/spend at least 6 hours per day in some form (in person, email, or the phone) if not far longer. we shared our secrets, our problems, our hopes, our dreams, our successes and our failures, just everything we could. all told it i'm positive we spent thousands of hours on each other. maybe all of that is sick. i completely disagree though. age was never really an issue till this happened. since this has happened, i haven't got to see her, and we've communicated just a handful of times. after she called me the day after this happened i went two months without hearing from her at all. in that time i tried my best to bury my feelings for her, and put what we shared in the past, i simply couldn't. when i'm finally sentenced this all may be in the past, and we can move forward, but right now there are still legal issues because of the charges keeping us apart. without that it would now be completely legal for us to date, be friends, get engaged, basically almost anything except to get married, or to just run away. legally as long as we weren't out causing trouble, everything would be ok, despite any parental objections. however, since there is still a restraining order in force, and violating that would invalidate my bail, and send me back to jail, we still need to stay apart for now. in the future i truly think we'll give it another try, she'll be 18 before too long, and that will make things much more simple for us. we'll just have to see what the future holds. the simple fact is that birthdays don't magically grant people maturity. nor do parents always know exactly what is best. nor do laws always ensure that people get true justice. sometimes it is hard to know what is best for you, and sometimes people make mistakes, yet trying to codify all human behaviors into a simple set of rules, that carry severe consequences is a system set up for failure.
i'll finish this tommorrow, i'm heading to bed for now...
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Elden
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Some guys really are jerks around here. As I see it, the only thing you did wrong was not trying to get to know her parents better. If they had accepted you as her bf, I'm sure they wouldn't have pressed charges against you.
Everything else is just a parody on justice. |
Courts are all about law, justice is ignored all to often.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Some guys really are jerks around here. |
No, we're older, and we know why 9 times out of ten a much older man goes out with a teenage girl, because he can't relate to women his own age. Sikander was spot on. Theben and I very nearly decided to go have a "talk" with one guy, who was 27, who was dating our 18 year-old sister. We let it slide, because, knowing our sister, she wasn't gonna be interested in him for very long, and she wasn't.
Sikander's post was short, sweet, and too the point, so there's no reason for me to expand upon it. Any man who thinks a child is his soul-mate has serious problems. He needs to get help to understand and overcome why he feels he can connect on such a level with someone who hasn't experienced life yet.
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lightblue
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L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:28
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So people become magically unchildlike at 18? That is silly. Some people are very grown up for their age, others behave like 12 year olds when their in their 20's.
I have gone out with 18-19 year olds when I was 23-4 (and also went out with a 23 year old when i was 17-8), and yes there is an age difference, but the only time you really notice it if you talk about music and movies and that sort of thing. That being said I would have problems with going out with a 16 year old now, just because of the whole "when I started uni you were only 9" kind of thing.
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TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No, we're older, and we know why 9 times out of ten a much older man goes out with a teenage girl, because he can't relate to women his own age. Sikander was spot on. Theben and I very nearly decided to go have a "talk" with one guy, who was 27, who was dating our 18 year-old sister. We let it slide, because, knowing our sister, she wasn't gonna be interested in him for very long, and she wasn't.
Sikander's post was short, sweet, and too the point, so there's no reason for me to expand upon it. Any man who thinks a child is his soul-mate has serious problems. He needs to get help to understand and overcome why he feels he can connect on such a level with someone who hasn't experienced life yet. |
I've never dated any 17 yearolds (except when I was one.) But I do find younger women nicer. MEaning mid 20s or so.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
But I do find younger women nicer. MEaning mid 20s or so. |
Key word . . . women. Korn's dating a girl. By a person's mid-twenties, they should already be adults, know who they are, they're place in the world, reaslize they aren't the center of the universe, that they have a death sentence, etc. There should be a major maturity leap between a teenager and a mid twenty-something. Hell, frankly, I should think a person in their mid-twenties would be bored listening to the trials and travels of becomming an adult yet again, having gone throw it themselves and watched their friends go through it.
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26-05-2003 03:36
. Like Sikander said, it is difficult to leave a family setting over a relationship... but also, if you really do love the girl, it is hard to leave the relationship. It ain't an easy task is all. He may not have self-respect in your eyes, but he's gotta figure out for himself how much self-respect matters vs. love and do a balancing test.
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