04-06-2003 23:19									#211
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quote: Originally posted by alva Ok, one for Colon, nope you get any points for guessing which building it is The view from my kitchenterras (the ugly part, the left is much better )

Do you live in the Harmoniestraat? I used to go to the school nearby. (RIKSO, in the Karel Oomstraat)

BTW, here's a picture of the Belgacom building across the park. (don't whine Ec )

	05-06-2003 00:27									#212
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Az:
I must say that I think La Défense area is the most boring place of Paris (and there are quite a few), and the whole zone is an ugly speck in the parisian urban continuum.

Sure, it is needed in order to have dynamic business areas, but from a urban point of view, La Défense sucks.

I think the lack of skyscrapers in Europe comes mostly from the fact that the cities have a urban plan and a feel to them which is centuries old, and which is supposed to last (as opposed to many East asians cities where most buildings weren't supposed to stand the test of time).
And European cities don't want to deface them with a bunch of out-of-place skyscrapers.

	05-06-2003 00:46									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Az: I must say that I think La Défense area is the most boring place of Paris (and there are quite a few), and the whole zone is an ugly speck in the parisian urban continuum. Sure, it is needed in order to have dynamic business areas, but from a urban point of view, La Défense sucks. I think the lack of skyscrapers in Europe comes mostly from the fact that the cities have a urban plan and a feel to them which is centuries old, and which is supposed to last (as opposed to many East asians cities where most buildings weren't supposed to stand the test of time). And European cities don't want to deface them with a bunch of out-of-place skyscrapers.

I some doubts about that. It may be true in open air museums like Bruges or Venice but in most other cities the old town is usually rather small compared to the rest of the city. You can usually find a modern business district not far away from that old centre.

And I don't think medieval constructions weren't supposed to last any longer than it's the case in Asia. Most buildings left from that era are big public buildings (like churches, city halls etc) or buildings that were prime real estate in their time. Not the ordinary houses.
Besides, we didn't have in qualms in demolishing old buildings during the sixties en seventies either. (even big beaties) It's more of recent thing.

	05-06-2003 01:02									#214
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quote: Do you live in the Harmoniestraat?

Yep...

	05-06-2003 01:14									#215
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what Colon said.

	05-06-2003 01:32									#216
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So Skycraper is progress?
Well I do not think so, if you take into account how old that concept is. Or is Radio progress too?

I think a Skyline like NY looks great, but at the same time I think that is US and not Europe.

Here in Europe most cities have an old city centre and that has much flair too.
Just walk around Vienna's 1st district and then tell me that Skyscraper is the only thing thats looking good.

I dont like to say whats lookin better, I think its looking different and both have their attraction.

I certainly do not wish that european cities get some sort of pseudo-modern flair (when you start mixing things) just because someone thought european buildings are not long enough.
Also I like the fact that european cities differ from the rest in that they have NO skyscrapers. If id like skyscrapers so much I could always move to NY or Frankfurt which has some sort of Skyline too here.


The ugliest city I have seen so far by the way is Athens! That city had absolutely NO atmosphere at all. Its all one height and has loads of traffic and every stupid idiot is using his horn when its not going the way he wants it. Athens should really do something about its "skyline".

ata

	05-06-2003 01:36									#217
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: Do you live in the Harmoniestraat? Yep...

Don't worry, I'm not going to send any snipers after you.

	05-06-2003 01:44									#218
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Ata:

I am not talking about only Aesthetics, although for me and many others ( as you can see in this thread! ), Skyscrapers are a thing of beauty.

Skyscrapers can be not only magnificent and inspiring by their immensity and design, as the cathedrals of old, but are also very important and healthy for the developement of human habitat.
Without skyscrapers, what we'll have is eternal urban sprawl, with suburbia everywhere you go. Skyscrapers are the ones to give a fighting chance for the future of green pastures, woods, rolling hills and sandy beaches.

	05-06-2003 01:49									#219
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quote: I am not talking about only Aesthetics, although for me and many others ( as you can see in this thread! ), Skyscrapers are a thing of beauty.

They are,.....from a distance.
Like I said, the building a couple of posts ago is to my right, to left the left it's all green, some flower gardens, some tree etc..., guess what direction I look mostly at.

(I'll see if I can make a left and right pic tomorrow, too dark now )

	05-06-2003 01:51									#220
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alva, that's because that building is ugly.

	05-06-2003 01:57									#221
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Well, it is a gouverment buildiing, what do you want
btw, you should the statue they put in front of it

	05-06-2003 01:56									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Ata: I am not talking about only Aesthetics, although for me and many others ( as you can see in this thread! ), Skyscrapers are a thing of beauty. Skyscrapers can be not only magnificent and inspiring by their immensity and design, as the cathedrals of old, but are also very important and healthy for the developement of human habitat. Without skyscrapers, what we'll have is eternal urban sprawl, with suburbia everywhere you go. Skyscrapers are the ones to give a fighting chance for the future of green pastures, woods, rolling hills and sandy beaches.

You gotta be fair, they can be real ugly

But there are a lot of nice skycrapers too, I posted some of them in this thread. The Commerzbank HQ in Frankfurt, the HSBC building in Hong Kong. The Empire State is just stunning, not just because it's so huge, but because it's simple yet beautiful. A true modern day cathedral, if you want.
Not all of them of big grey/grown boxes, especially Asia has lots of nicer ones.

	05-06-2003 01:59									#223
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quote: Originally posted by alva Well, it is a gouverment buildiing, what do you want btw, you should the statue they put in front of it

I think all architects were on crack in the seventies, it's just horrible what they designed back then.

	05-06-2003 02:35									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Ata: I am not talking about only Aesthetics, although for me and many others ( as you can see in this thread! ), Skyscrapers are a thing of beauty. Skyscrapers can be not only magnificent and inspiring by their immensity and design, as the cathedrals of old, but are also very important and healthy for the developement of human habitat. Without skyscrapers, what we'll have is eternal urban sprawl, with suburbia everywhere you go. Skyscrapers are the ones to give a fighting chance for the future of green pastures, woods, rolling hills and sandy beaches.

My point was that while skyscrapers can indeed look wonderful I do not think they fit into european cities without breaking their flair.
That to answer your question why there are so few in Europe. Because obviously i am not alone with my opinion.

And if you think skycrapers save nature then wait when those living there have enough money to buy a weekend house in the countryside.
I mean who wants to spend his whole life in a flat? I can't imagine that. Just think of the kids or the pets.

ata

	05-06-2003 11:39									#225
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quote: Well, it is a gouverment buildiing, what do you want btw, you should the statue they put in front of it

your government saves money on architects? for shame.

Government building in Tel Aviv ( to be finished in a couple of months )



another one that Sail thingee that I posted in the previous pages.
So, so far, so good. They're not something amazing, but they're ok, and are not very boring.

quote: My point was that while skyscrapers can indeed look wonderful I do not think they fit into european cities without breaking their flair. That to answer your question why there are so few in Europe. Because obviously i am not alone with my opinion. And if you think skycrapers save nature then wait when those living there have enough money to buy a weekend house in the countryside. I mean who wants to spend his whole life in a flat? I can't imagine that. Just think of the kids or the pets.

Ata, I don't think they'll break their flair. It didn't break London's or Paris' flair, did it?

quote: And if you think skycrapers save nature then wait when those living there have enough money to buy a weekend house in the countryside. I mean who wants to spend his whole life in a flat? I can't imagine that. Just think of the kids or the pets.

I've lived my entire life in a flat. It's great. I have a dog, and he's doing great too. ( He's a small dog, but very energetic. That's what walks are for! )

	05-06-2003 11:53									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa My point was that while skyscrapers can indeed look wonderful I do not think they fit into european cities without breaking their flair. That to answer your question why there are so few in Europe. Because obviously i am not alone with my opinion.

What is "natural flair" supposed to mean? Does that mean low-rise is good no matter how ugly and all high-rise is bad not matter how beautiful? Well then let's burn the cathedrals man. We got one of 120 metres that's destroying our natural flair big-time.

Seriously, vibrant cities have always been a massive collection different sizes, shapes and looks. That's what makes them so interesting and allowing that is what keeps them alive. If you want natural flair go to Bruges and Venice, admire how neat it all looks and then ask the locals how goddamn boring it is to live there.

quote: And if you think skycrapers save nature then wait when those living there have enough money to buy a weekend house in the countryside. I mean who wants to spend his whole life in a flat? I can't imagine that. Just think of the kids or the pets. ata

What's so bad about living in a flat? Is there something inherent about it that kills kids and pets?

	05-06-2003 12:04									#227
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"If you won't behave yourself.... We'll move to a flat!!"

	05-06-2003 12:11									#228
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IDF's new high command building:

	05-06-2003 13:27									#229
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that is one futuristic looking building....

Where is it gonna be at?

No government building will EVER beat the Pentagon however... thats just cool. Its HUGE.

	05-06-2003 13:45									#230
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san francisco



personally i like the view of san francisco from when you come around hospital curve on 101. mostly because that is how i always greeted the city when driving up there.

god i miss SF, and i havent even been gone more than a day.

seattle



the best shot of the skyline would have to be a few feet away from my school that im going to which is right on the water west of the ferry and east of the two other ferrys on the left side.

seattle is a mighty fine city

	05-06-2003 14:17									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman that is one futuristic looking building.... Where is it gonna be at? No government building will EVER beat the Pentagon however... thats just cool. Its HUGE.

It's going to be in Tel Aviv. the thing on the top is a Helipad.

Oh, and I don't like the Pentagon. there are much better government buildings in the US, and in the world too.

For example, the Tokyo city hall:



MRT: those pictures is indeed beautiful. I really like the NA west coast. too bad there are lots of quakes there.

	05-06-2003 14:27									#232
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there arent too many quakes. if major quakes were terrorism israel would only have one suicide bomber every 5 or 6 years.

	05-06-2003 14:29									#233
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Yes, but the destruction by a suicide bomber is smaller by a matter of a couple of scales to the destruction by an earthquake.

suicide bomber- say 5 people killed and 50 injured, and 2-3 shops wrecked.

Earthquake....

	05-06-2003 14:33									#234
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another building that's planned to be built, a cooperation of Japanese and Israeli architects.

	05-06-2003 14:37									#235
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look up the stats on the 89 earthquake in San Francisco and 94 earthquake in LA. i dont think that its that different in fatality wise to a terrorist attack. money wise it is much more expensive but thats the breaks for a few people

	05-06-2003 14:59									#236
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In both cases the risk of dying to an ordinary person is very small. The big difference is the damage to property.

	05-06-2003 15:05									#237
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I got by fine on the 89 quake. and i lived on landfill...

	05-06-2003 15:12									#238
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You mean one of them "let's burry the trash, and put a park on it" projects? those are great. We have one of them going in Haifa, though some time ago, the weather was really hot, and dry, so the methane that was there ( product of anaerobic processes) started burning. THere was quite a fire. I think they should build a gas drain through it. Will bring some free natural gas, too.

	05-06-2003 15:41									#239
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it was more like "lets fill the bay in with a bunch of dirt and put overpriced housing on it" kind of projects. they did the same thing in the marina district in san francisco and it was hard hit by the 89 quake. of course that was on 1915 technology for the worlds fair.

	05-06-2003 15:44									#240
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oooh, someone's whining. You lived near the seaside, in a nice building, but SOMEONE is not happy.