12-03-2004 05:57									#451
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Beta Question - if Arrian is such a good civ player - why hasn't he figured out that taking Python's land would be better for them in the long run?

I think having trustworthy alliances is far more valuable.

And we have some shady backgrounds (Beta & Vox, H_E & GoW).



Beta... what do you think would be going through CoD's mind when they saw cities being placed so close to their territory ?

"Oh dear ... here comes Vox again"



But to be honest...those cities saved us. We saw their invasion way sooner than they would of liked

	12-03-2004 07:49									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Question - if Arrian is such a good civ player - why hasn't he figured out that taking Python's land would be better for them in the long run?

But he talked Monty into a war with us so Monty could jump over his good land and get our $hitty land.

He will expand to the west which if you have noticed is not developed yet.

And Im sure he will get a chunck of the northern paart of the penisula.

So he gets the best land and has another team do his dirty work for him.

He is getting back at you two in this one.

	14-03-2004 08:43									#453
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Beta

I got your PM earlier.

I dont think we will playn tonight, sunshine sent the wrong save to OCT_X

And no one from that team is online right now

	16-03-2004 21:07									#454
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The save is here. I will be playing it later this evening.

H_E has sent me his moves via e-mail. He still cannot access the forum.

	16-03-2004 21:52									#455
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Im still traveling so I will not be around.

Please post the staus of Horsie island, what we are building there and when it will done.

Im thinking if by some stroke of luck we survive the initial onslaught without to much damage we are going to want some sort of counterattck mechanism eventually..

And Horsies is all we have.

	17-03-2004 05:32									#456
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430bc turn played.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...onkey-430bc.JPG

With the revised barb plan H_E and I discussed via e-mail. We attacked and killed two barbs - and moved the third merc into cover the city. This ties up the same number of mercs, but kills two barbs - and will allow the worker to move south to improve some much needed tiles. Unfortunately - no promotions.

Up north - moved the archer to Orangutan. We may need him for mopping up duties.

Also - pop rushed a catapult in Fort Siamang. Ready next turn. In two turns we will have another pop point to rush - probably our last for a bit. We may want to save it to rebuild walls.

Had to move the lux slider to 40%, and kept a warrior in Macaque. It is size 6. We have two catapults and a merc out next turn.

Renamed our archer 'Sting'. Renamed the un-named NM in the stack now in Fort Siamang 'Ranger Scotty'.

Was thinking of naming our catapults Pop, Zing, Crack, Bang, Snap, etc. (yes, Snap Crackle Pop). Unless there are other ideas out there.

Galleys moved to a point off the southern coast of the western peninsula. They can make it back in a hurry - but are also in a prime spot to ambush any Python galleys headed south. And I'm sure they will be coming.

As to Monkey/Horsie Island - currently building a worker. Done in 6 turns as the city town grows to size 2. Not particularly encouraging. We could consider letting it grow and moving one of the continental workers over - but to be honest - we really need them working tiles around the core.

So fellow Simians - prepare for battle!

Courage! Wits! And monkey poo! These will win the day!

	17-03-2004 05:35									#457
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And amidst the rising tensions - a moment of celebration... as Beta the Macaque reaches 5000 posts.

	17-03-2004 17:12									#458
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And btw - we are also no longer at peace with Python. Forgot to mention that.

	17-03-2004 20:18									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Beta And btw - we are also no longer at peace with Python. Forgot to mention that.

Did they declare or us?

Congrats on 5000 posts, it is truely proof that you spend WAAAAAAAAY to much time doing CIV stuff

	18-03-2004 17:14									#460
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Did they declare or us? Congrats on 5000 posts, it is truely proof that you spend WAAAAAAAAY to much time doing CIV stuff

I used H_E's suggetsed method. I cancelled the peace deal.

As to 5000, well I am consistent. I average over 10 posts a day, and there are not that many forums that I am active in.

I bet your post-count per day is higher than that.

	18-03-2004 19:49									#461
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quote: Originally posted by Beta I used H_E's suggetsed method. I cancelled the peace deal. As to 5000, well I am consistent. I average over 10 posts a day, and there are not that many forums that I am active in. I bet your post-count per day is higher than that.

6.27 posts/day for me.

Where the heck do you post so much? PBEM forum?

Was cancelling the peace deal wise? Shouldn't we have waited till they declared war for maX war weariness for them? Im asking because Im not really sure, but if we cancell peace isn't that the same as us declaring war?

	19-03-2004 08:29									#462
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I believe H_E's point was that we wanted to prevent them from investigating the city. A valid strategy. And I suspect you are right - it is the same as us declaring war.

	19-03-2004 09:05									#463
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Phew... I will try not to do that again.

Kon finally got back to me today.
I just got let back in.



Regarding peace...
Yep... I just didnt want them investigating any cities.
They would not take the bait and kill our warrior.

I think they get a WW boost, because we declared war.
But then they will begin to accumulate WW whenever they have a unit die in our territory.
That shouldnt take too long


Ahhh... It's good to be among the treetops again.




And as I check back on the hundreds of posts I have missed ....

Horsie island is kinda left to its own devices.
We will need a harbor there, and a harbor on our main continent to get the horses to the cities that could actually build horsemen.

So it is quite limited as to what it can do.

	19-03-2004 09:21									#464
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Welcome back and I understand now on the war declaration.

I hear you on Horsie Island but then I just did join VOX so I must be a dreamer

The war starts soon, Im getting antsy

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Phew... I will try not to do that again. Kon finally got back to me today. I just got let back in. Regarding peace... Yep... I just didnt want them investigating any cities. They would not take the bait and kill our warrior. I think they get a WW boost, because we declared war. But then they will begin to accumulate WW whenever they have a unit die in our territory. That shouldnt take too long Ahhh... It's good to be among the treetops again. And as I check back on the hundreds of posts I have missed .... Horsie island is kinda left to its own devices. We will need a harbor there, and a harbor on our main continent to get the horses to the cities that could actually build horsemen. So it is quite limited as to what it can do.

	19-03-2004 14:36									#465
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Sorry..
No time tonight.
Playing NWN with some mates in about 15 minutes.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=21934_410bc.jpg

Everything is reasonably obvious.

Move the mercs.
Then use the cats.


Cross your fingers, rub your lucky charms.
Python attacks next turn.

	19-03-2004 17:59									#466
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Will play the save later today - 6pm est or so.

And welcome back to the tree-tops H_E.

	20-03-2004 07:59									#467
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410bc turn played.

I think this what you meant H_E - Fire the catapults and then attack?

Cause that is what I did.

The bad news. 3 catapults missed the CoD spears and horse
The good news:
1. Sting the archer defeated a vet spear with no loss.
2. Sylvester the NM kills vet spear but down to 1 hp. OUR GA HAS STARTED.
3. Steve kills 3/4 spear but is down to two hp's.
4. con the wise beats the horse down to 1hp - it retreats - con loses 1hp.
5. Bob finishes off the horse with no losses.

Unfortunately - no promotions. But I am not going to complain.

And it leaves our NM's sort of scattered in and around Orangutan. And none within one move of Fort Siamang.

Here's the pic:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...onkey-410bc.JPG

I have the warrior ready to move in next turn. Didn't want him any closer in case Fort Siamang is taken - and a horse can get him fairly easily. In retrospect - should have left him in Orangutan - but he has already moved.

Two workers moved to the tile to road it next turn. Do this first. It will allow the wounded Sylvester to make it into Orangutan.

The settler is 4 of Oragutan. Anymore thoughts of con's idea of a hill fortress 9-9 or 9-9-8 from Orang??

Down south - was able to move NM's such that the one in Baboon could head north. And there is a barb horse next to the NM next to Chimp, but he cannot access Chimp.

The southern worker is mining 9-9 of Chimp. We need to improve the tiles down south. We also need to road the tundra tile 7 of Chimp - this will allow one or two Mercs to hold off barbs unless we have another major uprising.

Now - the cities - the GA worked wonders for happiness and wealth and production. Lux slider down to 20%. I moved the research slider down to where republic is done in 17 turns. And we are at plus 16 gold per turn.

Macaque and Gorilla are now in the 10spt range. Macaque and PC will be in the 15spt range soon.
Orangutan is at 9spt - needs one more pop. And I have adjusted the southern cities to what fit best with workforce set up given the new shield production.

Baboon, Macaque and Gorilla all produce vet mercs in 3 turns. Macaque and PC can soon be producing mercs every second turn.

So - we had a good string of luck with our attacks. Rub those lucky charms that it continues on defence. And have those catapult guys do some target practice. They will need it.

We raise our glasses to the defenders of Fort Siamang. To Victory! To Monkeys!!!!!

* Crowd cheers loudly.

	20-03-2004 08:10									#468
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quote: 3. Steve kills 3/4 spear but is down to two hp's. 4. con the wise beats the horse down to 1hp - it retreats - con loses 1hp.

God D@m, my guys are good!

Yay!!!!!!

	20-03-2004 08:14									#469
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Where did the CoD galleys go?

And whats in the CoD stack outside of Fort Siamang?

Is the Monty stack the same?

And how many NM's did we finally get in Fort Siamang?

And did we pop rush a barracks up there?

	23-03-2004 02:38									#470
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Monty has had the save for 24 hours plus.

I assume that means they are attacking Fort Siamang.

I hope there attack was so screwed up they are shocked and have forgotten to send the save along

muhahahahahahahahahaha

	23-03-2004 05:20									#471
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Where did the CoD galleys go? And whats in the CoD stack outside of Fort Siamang? Is the Monty stack the same? And how many NM's did we finally get in Fort Siamang? And did we pop rush a barracks up there?

Questions! Questions!

The CoD galleys were headed south down our coast - at least the last I saw of them.

As to our galleys - ss indicated well above - the galleys are hanging out a spot two tiles east of the South-west corner of the western peninsula. Get that?

They are on look out for python galleys. Any python galley coming down the coast needs to stop on that tile to cross over the two-tile wide stretch of sea. With any luck we might catch them unfortified.

As to the CoD stack near Ft.Siamang, I think it was only two units - a spear and an archer. The horses are no longer in sight.

The Monty stack is the same.

As to the number of mercs ...hmm - can't recall. 11 or maybe it was 12.

No - we did not pop rush a barracks. We are saving the pop point to rebuild the walls if need be. I rushed a catapult the turn before last - and on retrospect - barracks may have been the wiser move. Done now.

	23-03-2004 05:24									#472
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Monty has had the save for 24 hours plus. I assume that means they are attacking Fort Siamang. I hope there attack was so screwed up they are shocked and have forgotten to send the save along muhahahahahahahahahaha

Or they are pulling a Lucky and re-playing the save until they get it right. (Just kidding here folks. I fully believe that no one in a Poly demo game would pull stuff like that.)

But it will be interesting to get the save and see what is left. Our backfield is a bit scattered as a result of the CoD landing. It didn't accomplish much - OTHER than keeping a number of mercs out of Siamang. And I'm sure that is what their objective was.

	23-03-2004 07:36									#473
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Beta No - we did not pop rush a barracks. We are saving the pop point to rebuild the walls if need be. I rushed a catapult the turn before last - and on retrospect - barracks may have been the wiser move. Done now.

barracks or walls, we REALLY should have popped walls, I thought that was our tacitly agreed to build after "Sting".

Ah well, live and learn.

	23-03-2004 10:11									#474
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We DO have walls in Fort Siamang

We got the save.

THEY ARE BYPASSING FORT SIAMANG!!!!!

My recomendation get the the gold for Fort Siamang walls and disband it. (The city.)

Move all units down the road to Orangutan

Rush WALLS in orangutan.

Lets hold there, we cant fight that Monty stack with what we have in the core right now, it just aint gonna happen.

H_E? What do you think?

Als there is a Cod Stack 3 tiles north of Siamang

2 Spearman, 5 horsies, I sword (now they have iron too, yeeeeeesh)

And Monty reinforcements, a couple of Swords and a cat to the east of Siamang.

We need to do a core turtle.

and we need those God d@m horsies from Monkey island. Man its taking TOOOOOO long for that

And Im not comfortable having the galleys that far away, if we start falling we need to evac as many Num Mercs and cats as we can. Galleys need to be staged closer. Just MHO

	23-03-2004 10:24									#475
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As another option. - how about we use the settler to build a city 9-9 from Orangutan. We load in our remaining mercs. If they decide to bypass it - we get 3 turns of pounding them with catapults while they are in our cultural borders.

We can also move in a worker, add it to the city, and rush walls the following turn. Orangutan finishes its catapult and then rushhes walls as suggested.

My fear is that they are going to go down the mountains on the east coast - and use the mountain where Willy is right now to pull back their troops for healing. Dropping a city on the hill makes it an automatic fort - and fills in the cultural border for healing purposes.

Or we - pull out everyone from Siamang. As con has suggetsed.

No rush on this turn. It does not get played until tomorrow evening.

And I will contact Tabemono and see what is up - but I am sure they are on good terms with CoD. Just hope they can see down the road a bit, and what is in their long-term best interest.

	23-03-2004 19:41									#476
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quote: Originally posted by Beta As another option. - how about we use the settler to build a city 9-9 from Orangutan. We load in our remaining mercs. If they decide to bypass it - we get 3 turns of pounding them with catapults while they are in our cultural borders. We can also move in a worker, add it to the city, and rush walls the following turn. Orangutan finishes its catapult and then rushhes walls as suggested. My fear is that they are going to go down the mountains on the east coast - and use the mountain where Willy is right now to pull back their troops for healing. Dropping a city on the hill makes it an automatic fort - and fills in the cultural border for healing purposes.

The problem I see with this Beta is that they can just bypass this new fort city and then we have defenders that could be defending the core. We would be able to get one turn of slinging monkey poo in the cats and then we are stuck with units in a city that cannot lend mutual support to the Core.

I think Cod is going to march that stack down south and start pilliaging cutting off Orangutan from Gorilla so we can no longer switch troops from one to the other depending on where they go.

So we need to hit them hard from orangutan or Gorilla with every cat we got so they retreat the stack to heal.

And if the Cod Galleys are moving south and if we think they still have troops on it, they are going to go for Monkey Island to deny us the only viable means of counterattack we have.

Thats my take. Im not convinced that fort at 9,9 of Siamang will get us any benefit. At least in the long run.

quote: Originally posted by Beta Or we - pull out everyone from Siamang. As con has suggetsed. No rush on this turn. It does not get played until tomorrow evening. And I will contact Tabemono and see what is up - but I am sure they are on good terms with CoD. Just hope they can see down the road a bit, and what is in their long-term best interest.

Im seeing a retreat to our core to concentrate our forces, but Im convinced the economic war of pillage the crap out of us is going to happen first.

I would rather us get the map from Tambemeno first as I mentioned in the Diplo Thread. I just dont want to take the chance of NOT getting it. As soon as we get the map then start crying for help.

I think we need to think about what we are going to do about Monkey Island. (Was there 2 or 3 CoD galleys?)

And we need to discuss this Fort city or not.

Wheres our Aussie?

	24-03-2004 08:59									#477
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390bc turn played

Here is the pic:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...onkey-390bc.JPG

Eight Mercs remain in Siamang. H_E - I chose you and I to stay with the various Chimps. Con's family members were evacuated.

Settler goes to 9-9 of Orang. Will build Dung Hill there next turn - and we load in the mercs and the catapults.

And then - if they stay on the plains - we move back to Orang.

If they attack Ft Siamang - we keep our fingers crossed.

Also note that a number of the units in the Python stack are wounded. Figure barb horses must have attacked them. Building Dung Hill will keep them from being able to get to clear territory to heal - without moving back.

Ranger Joe in the south attacked and killed a barb and got promoted to vet.

One galley is coming south to get a unit to Monkey Island to make sure we don't get suckered there. I need to check the saves to see if CoD could have snuck a galley by us - loaded with a unit.

Science slider to 20%. Generates +23 gold per turn. Wish we could use it. Republic in 21 turns.

I noted to Steve, er con, that we have 7 forest tiles in the core. That is 70 shields. Planned correctly - we could get a catapult out of PC every turn for the next while. Or do we rush barracks there???

2 cats out next turn. 1 cat and 3 mercs out in two turns.

The plan with the new city is to keep them in our cultural borders as long as possible. Also - keep them guessing where we have our mercs - a bit of a shell game. Dung Hill also - hopefully - keeps them out of the mountains. We shall see.

May Mother Nature and her close friend, Lady Luck, smile gently upon, and look after, her Simian worshippers.

	27-03-2004 09:52									#478
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Hmmm - I'm back

OK - Lets not jinks it, and never mention me accidently leaving this forum again.

I have a quick look at the save..
RL is still taking up a bit of time.

1. Python have used the fortify-all command on their stack. We agreed...and every demo game since... not to do this.
In fact C3C had this functionality removed.
I believe testing has shown, that it makes no difference, because our turn comes immediately after python. The units assume the position but dont get any defensive bonus's.

Either way...I'd ask Python to play the save again. Just to make the point, that they are not to do it.

2. I probably wouldnt of left Siamang, or moved the settler into the position it is.

Splitting up our forces is dangerous.
Python should of pillaged the road, and then moved onto our core.
Basically leaving our 6 NM behind, and unable to return to the core. They didnt do that...bad move....maybe they are waiting for the CoD stack to arrive, and they are going to hit us together.

Dont know ... but it's in our favour if they wait.
We will lose 6 NM's however.


And... I would of kept the settler on the road network.
Planted a city right between Siamang & Orang, and made them go through or around & hitting them with catapults.


Anyway ... we didnt do it.
We work with what we got.
I dont think building a city on the hills is going to do anything.
They will go right around it to our core.
To return the settler back, we will have to take the hills & then into Orang.

Not sure what to do with the settler.
If we make Python replay, we have some time to discuss.

Everything else can remain on our roadnetwork Orang7.
They can attack the Pythn stack, if they are hurt. and also reach Gorilla & Orang.

Thats my thoughts for now...
Basically no real plans... would like to hear your thoughts.

H_E

	27-03-2004 19:48									#479
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Hi H_E. Welcome back. Put this forum in your favorites - and that way you can stay away from the LEAVE button.

Anyways - as to plans. Let me explain our thinking from last turn.

If we abondoned Ft Siamang - and that was clearly an option - we would have given Python and CoD easy access to our core. Having Ft Siamang means that sooner or later they have to try and take it out. If the large Python stack moved past it - which it did not - we could be reasonably confident that it would take awhile for a second siimilar stack to come down which would be able to defeat it.

The existing Python stack is wounded. We do not want to give it anywhere to heal. And you are correct - we want to find some way of being able to continue hitting it with catapults.

The thinking behind the city in the hills was to keep them out of the mountains. This move I now regret. A couple of mercs on the mountain tiles to the south would accomplish the same thing. The best place for the city is as you have suggested - on the road network - and right in between Siamang and Orangutan.

So - he will take one turn to move back down to the road. And - if Python does attack Ft Siamang next turn, we buidl the city 8-8 of Orang - load in the catapults and bombard. And load in the mercs. Depending on the state of the Python stack - and it will be pretty beat up - we may even want to consider our attack options. Imagine 8 more catapults.

Also - just so ypu know- we ran a number of combat simulations regarding the 17 swords vs 8 mercs. We still stand a better than even chance of winning that battle. And in either case - the attackers are pretty chewed up. For that matter - so are the defenders.

If we move the settler down to the road - and Python moves to the tile 9-9 of Orang - a new set of options arise.

To start with - Ft Siamang will be safe for awhile. (Which means that you and I are OK. )

But we obviously then cannot build 9-9 of Orangutan - ANd - Python is now sitting on a tile not within our cultural borders. AND i had to check as I have never tried this before - can you build a city next to an existing one? Nope. And if we bombard them there - our units will be xposed - ie outside of a city. Not good.

Damn - wish you were there last turn to talk us out of the settler move. This would have been a good turn to build it and garrison it - and get in a round of catapult shots. Although - we still would have only had 8 mercs - and no walls.

So - our choices -

1. build on the hills. And keep a minimal garrison there.

2. move the settler back down to the road.

I am leaning towards 2. If the Python stack does move south- then we hole up in Orangutan. If they attack Ft Siamang - we build the 9-9 City.

Also note - we are doing well against the barbs down south. Joe is now elite.

Two more catapults out this turn.

Next turn we have:

3 new mercs - all vets
Walls in Orangutan
Another catapult.

And last question - what do we do with the workers:

1. mine the current tile
2. move to mine and road the tile 3 of Macaque
3. move to cut the forest on the ivory tie. (5 turns for 1 and 3 turns for both.) We could then switch the PC build to barracks (3 turns) and use it to put out vet mercs every second turn. Actually - this can be done without the forest chop. So I opt against this - as the forst tiles currently produce two shields per turn.
4. Move south to help develop the tiles down south.

My recommendation is that both mine the current tile, or one mines the current tles (3 turn) and the other heads south where we could reallu use some enhanced shield production.

ANd btw - I e-mailed python about the fortify all. And posted a neutral comment about 'game mechanics' in the save game comments thread.

	28-03-2004 00:01									#480
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Splitting up our forces is dangerous. H_E

This is the thing I did not like about the plan.

If I have learned nothing else from CIV II and CIV III MP, is that might makes right. So concentrate your forces.

Im still not convinced Dung Hill is going to give us much of an edge. I understand about the culture and not healing but Im still not convinced.

But whatever we decide Ill go along with.

And thank the banana god H_E is back. This place aint the same without him